Thank You, Doc

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    I can only pray the  Clippers signing Doc and League approval come quickly.. The longer the delay the more terrified I am Doc will remain coach of the C's.

    All this nonsense about how great a coach Doc was/is... wheres the evidence? 

    He took a loaded team with 3 HOF's in 2007-08 that had to go 7 games against the Hawks and 7 games against the Cavs and 6 against the Pistons and Lakers,,, the most playoffs games played in NBA history and the C's were 66-16!!  ....teams that were able to zero in on a long series against the Celtics did much much better than they did during the season... whys that???  cause thats where coaching, strategy and adjustments play a bigger part...

    Doc let players like BBD rot until major injury forced him into the lineup and voila... he played like an all star... who knew??? certainly not DOc

    All the players Doc let rot on the bench or ran off the team cause he just didnt like them...

    What great handling and nurturing he did of ROndo... turning a spoiled brat punk into a monster egomaniac head case and wiping his nose along the way,.,.  then annointing Rondo team leader as the kid melted down in most aspects of team leadership///

    Allowing the massive ego of Rondo to dictate how the game was played..  The C's became  the 'lets focus on ROndo assist records' team....so pathetic was Doc that Rondo freely passed up breakaway layups to pass to a teammate , and more difficult shot, to gain an assist.. Who can deny this?

    Too weak and cowardly to assert his authority as HC to demand different or sit him. Apparently so frustrated with the disrespect Rondo showed him, Doc made a lame leap towards the diva in an attempt to fight him.. but still, Rondo got his way and DOc took it and also revealed what a lame coach he really is

    Riding his vets into the ground, refusing to use his bench  adequately until the old timers gas tanks emptied in perfect timing for the playoffs... ever notice how many 4th quarter meltdowns the Celtics had the last several years?? Misusing all that talent and know-how 

    Giving cheerleading demo's during timeouts when he should be issuing some strategies and instructions from time to time... yet every camera pick up for years was ... lets go!!  rah rah rah!!!  Oh yes, at times we heard such wisdom as ....we need a stop... or... we need a rebound.... never anything like how to handle the pick n roll defensively thats killing us... nah, just go get'm!!

    Look at Docs resume as HC... he was garbage in Orlando... oh wait, almost forgot DOc won Coach of the Year once in Orlando, when his team didnt even make the playoffs... I guess that meant of all the lousy teams, Docs was one of the better ones...

    Many were begging for Doc to be fired in Boston... right up until Danny pulled off a miracle and created the Big 3... thats Danny Ainge, not Doc Rivers

    Doc rode those HOF's and players coattails until now, when the riding is over... now its time to show what you aremade of  as a coach... oh uh, thats not for Doc... we already seen how rotten Doc is as a coach sans Big 3 HOF era...

    So Ill chime in my thanks as well... Thanks Doc, for not interfereing too much with KGs coaching in 2008 and messing up our championship.... you almost did anyway, having to go 7 games agasint inferior opponents twice, but we got by...barely..

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    You are so one sided:

    When Thibs had the best record with the bulls, he didn't even make the finals!

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    I agree somewhat with Karllost. I just think Doc was a creature of habit and it was the detriment of a team that needed to grow and evolve. He's highly touted because NBA coaching is so bad these days that people really praise coach Spo as a great coach when he's got 3 of the top 10 players in the league and the best player in the league.

    We will see if Doc's coaching is overrated. I truly believe that KG and Thibs had more of an influence on the success of the team than Doc. He's a good motivator but his game to game strategy is a big question. This is coming from a person that has seen probably 95% of Celtics games over the last 6 years. People around the NBA and other fans don't see what we as Celtics fans see game in and game out. Doc is going to need defensive minded players like he had in Boston or his philosophy will not work...he doesn't have that right now in LA.

    I wish him luck but I still believe the Celtics with a few pickups and maybe hearing a new voice will rejuvenate some of the guys. Rondo needs to prove he isn't running everyone off and I think PP and KG want to show it's NOT all about Doc. Whomever Ainge hires will be huge in how the next 4-5 years go.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from johconn. Show johconn's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    Have to agree. Liked the guy a lot. Dislike him a bit more for leaving. Limited coach but seemed to really get those egos working together. At least he was quiet in the press and didn't start to lose it over the on-off nature of the deal. We got something from him for trade padding down the line so I guess that'll do for now. Not the man for the re-building job anyways. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    Fierce, I'm not talking about those guys growing, I'm talking about developing young guys and keeping talent so you don't end up like we are right now. The Spurs have worked in young guys while playing the Big 3.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Doc refused to develop talent?

    How did we get Ray Allen?

    #5 pick of 2007, Wally, and Delonte West.

    Delonte West was the 24th pick of the Celtics of the 2004 Draft.

    KG to Boston for Big Al and others.

    Big Al was All-Rookie 2nd team in 2005.

    And Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins would not have their current contracts if they didn't excel under Doc Rivers.



    This was during times when he had no other options. When veterans were available, he chose that path each and every time over the unproven rookie until an injury or lack of depth forced his hand. See powe and big baby getting minutes for prime examples.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Doc refused to develop talent?

    How did we get Ray Allen?

    #5 pick of 2007, Wally, and Delonte West.

    Delonte West was the 24th pick of the Celtics of the 2004 Draft.

    KG to Boston for Big Al and others.

    Big Al was All-Rookie 2nd team in 2005.

    And Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins would not have their current contracts if they didn't excel under Doc Rivers.



    It took years for our dunce coach to realize what a defensive stud TA was and he still got little PT..

    Perkins was a joke under the camouflage of KG making him look serviceable...in all the years Perk played for us, Doc couldnt even teach him how to set a legal pick.. OKC took Perk are regret it terribly as its very clear, nobody developed Perk..

    Everyone else you mention in your foolish post was not developed by Doc...not a single one. In fact, your post is so ridiculous I thought someone even dumber than you hacked your account and made the post. But no, it was you...sadly

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    Doc should've pushed for Posey and TA to stay. I'm not sure who is to blame Doc or Ainge for letting one guy after another walk/get traded, etc. Most of the time a GM and a coach work hand in hand...meaning the GM will ask the coach what he needs or consult him on moves. Doc didn't like the Perk trade but Perk has done nothing. Doc didn't mind letting TA walk but now TA is playing well. It's hard to say what impact Doc has really had. I think he's handcuffed the wrong guys and let guys who should be handcuffed off the hook...i.e. Green is handcuffed and Rondo runs wild.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:


    Doc should've pushed for Posey and TA to stay. I'm not sure who is to blame Doc or Ainge for letting one guy after another walk/get traded, etc. Most of the time a GM and a coach work hand in hand...meaning the GM will ask the coach what he needs or consult him on moves. Doc didn't like the Perk trade but Perk has done nothing. Doc didn't mind letting TA walk but now TA is playing well. It's hard to say what impact Doc has really had. I think he's handcuffed the wrong guys and let guys who should be handcuffed off the hook...i.e. Green is handcuffed and Rondo runs wild.



    I agree... and you have to wonder if they discussed the trades and signings they did make... cause Doc chased alot of them off the team or just didnt play them...  so what was the point??

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Archer1. Show Archer1's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    I'm not sad to see Doc go, but enjoyed having him as the coach here for the last few years. I'll always remember him and the successes he had with the Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Perkins group.

    One of my favorite Doc moments...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcLw5VUtALI&feature=player_embedded

    "I know you all wanna win, but you got to do it TOGETHER"

     

    Later Doc.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc


    Well the qeustion becomes. Did Ainge go rogue on who to sign, trade,etc. Did Doc push Ainge to sign, trade, etc? Did Ainge and Doc agree on most of the moves?

    We may never know.

    Doc should've never played up the "Rondo is the defacto leader"....NEVER! It should've continued to be KG or PP. Rondo wasn't ready to have the team handed over to him and in so many ways Doc thought it was the right thing to do hoping that Rondo would mature into a good leader. Well he turned the keys over to the inmate and the inmate challenged him.

    Word is that Jay Larranaga may get the job. The C's don't want to pay a established coach. I will tell you right now, if he gets the job, it's a tell tell sign that Rondo will be gone.

     

     

     

     

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    I think most coaches could have taken Ray Allen, KG, Pierce and the rest and won a title or two as long as you could keep them happy and get them to share the ball and play defense. Half the coaches in the league could have won a title with them. I just think he's overrated and we're lucky to have gotten a first for a rah rah coach who refused to develop talent.

     

    Why develop it when you can buy it right off the shelf, thinks doc. "DA... go out and get me somemore FA talent."

    Thinks DA.... Hmmmmm, the more talent I get you, the less you use it. Besides, when we get to the heavy lift rebuild  phase.... I wonder if you're going to jump shi..... naw.... you wouldn't do me that way. No way!

     

    Smiles doc...... Way!

    Pud

    [/QUOTE]


    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    Doc was a fine coach and, above all, a class act. But as with the Red Sox board, where Terry Francona -- you know, the guy who led the Boston to two world championships after an 86-year drought -- many here give him very little credit. One poster, who I'm betting never played the game, recently said "anybody could have won with that team in 2008." Utter nonsense. It's not easy coaching three guys who are used to being the superstar. Ask Erik Spoelstra.

    To me, Doc's best coaching job came in 2011-12. How that team made the Eastern finals and had the Heat on the ropes is amazing. And then Heat went on to beat OCK in five.

    In the immortal words of Joni Mitchell, "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'till it's gone.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to prakash's comment:

     

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

     

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

     

     


    I think most coaches could have taken Ray Allen, KG, Pierce and the rest and won a title or two as long as you could keep them happy and get them to share the ball and play defense. Half the coaches in the league could have won a title with them. I just think he's overrated and we're lucky to have gotten a first for a rah rah coach who refused to develop talent.

     

     

     

    Why develop it when you can buy it right off the shelf, thinks doc. "DA... go out and get me somemore FA talent."

    Thinks DA.... Hmmmmm, the more talent I get you, the less you use it. Besides, when we get to the heavy lift rebuild  phase.... I wonder if you're going to jump shi..... naw.... you wouldn't do me that way. No way!

     

     

     

    Smiles doc...... Way!

    Pud

     




    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     

     

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years


     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to jrmccook's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Doc refused to develop talent?

    How did we get Ray Allen?

    #5 pick of 2007, Wally, and Delonte West.

    Delonte West was the 24th pick of the Celtics of the 2004 Draft.

    KG to Boston for Big Al and others.

    Big Al was All-Rookie 2nd team in 2005.

    And Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins would not have their current contracts if they didn't excel under Doc Rivers.

     

     



    This was during times when he had no other options. When veterans were available, he chose that path each and every time over the unproven rookie until an injury or lack of depth forced his hand. See powe and big baby getting minutes for prime examples.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Powe was damaged goods after the 2009 season. He had a serious knee injury in the 2009 playoffs, remember?

     

    Big Baby would not have gotten that big contract if he didn't develop under Doc.

    And why would you play an unproven rookie when you're a team fighting for homecourt advantage?

    From 2008 until 2012 the Celtics were contenders. Playing unproven rookies will cost you games which would result in not having homecourt advantage in the playoffs.

    How many unproven rookies did Phil Jackson have during his championship runs with the Bulls and Lakers?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's an excuse. The spurs find a way to do it in 10-12 minute increments and not tire out their starters. These minutes were not given to young players to reset the veterans legs and prolong their careers and develop the youth and give the confidence. Don't make an excuse for poor coaching.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:


    Fierce, I'm not talking about those guys growing, I'm talking about developing young guys and keeping talent so you don't end up like we are right now. The Spurs have worked in young guys while playing the Big 3.

     




    +1

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:


    Fierce, I'm not talking about those guys growing, I'm talking about developing young guys and keeping talent so you don't end up like we are right now. The Spurs have worked in young guys while playing the Big 3.

    +1



    Which team EVER  (besides maybe the Spurs with the twin towers to duncan, parker, ginobili) wasn't very bad for many years after their stars aged? I think this is the normal cycle of the new NBA with the salary cap and the draft.

    And is what Doc did with Rondo, AB etc. so much worse than what Pops did with Green and Leonard? Especially if you consider the injuries?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to Gasthoerer's comment:

     

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

     

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:


    Fierce, I'm not talking about those guys growing, I'm talking about developing young guys and keeping talent so you don't end up like we are right now. The Spurs have worked in young guys while playing the Big 3.

    +1

     

     



    Which team EVER  (besides maybe the Spurs with the twin towers to duncan, parker, ginobili) wasn't very bad for many years after their stars aged? I think this is the normal cycle of the new NBA with the salary cap and the draft.

     

     

    And is what Doc did with Rondo, AB etc. so much worse than what Pops did with Green and Leonard? Especially if you consider the injuries?



    the jazz under jerry sloan
    1 year under .500 post malone and stockton

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/sloanje01c.html

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

    the jazz under jerry sloan
    1 year under .500 post malone and stockton

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/sloanje01c.html



    You are right, but:

    1) One example doesn't exactly mean that is the standard which Doc and Ainge should have been accounted for.

    2) The Jazz were stuck with many years in the middle of the pack --> Obviously not a great way for winning a title.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:


    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years


     

     



    Nah!  Red and Tommy Hiensohn don't count.  That was a different era.  Greg Popovich?  Yes.  Jerry Sloan?  That is not consistently winning at a high level.  And who did he develop once he started winning?  Deron Williams?  Anybody could have developed Deron Williams.  Pat Riley?  Now that is laughable.  Who did he develop?  By your standards Doc has a stellar record: Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Big Baby, all are his successes.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrmccook. Show jrmccook's posts

    Re: Thank You, Doc

    In response to prakash's comment:

    In response to jrmccook's comment:

     

    In response to prakash's comment:


    You guys are so precious!  Clearly, you think that coaching is a no-brainer.  Can you give me two examples of coaches that developed players while winning consistently at the same time?  Your formula is that anybody can win with 3 all-star players on the roster.  Miami did not win it all in the first year.  Sometimes complexity and subtelity eludes simple minds.

     

    Red, Pat Riley, Tom Heinson in years past..

    Jerry Sloan, Greg Popovich just to name a few from the last several years


     

     



    Nah!  Red and Tommy Hiensohn don't count.  That was a different era.  Greg Popovich?  Yes.  Jerry Sloan?  That is not consistently winning at a high level.  And who did he develop once he started winning?  Deron Williams?  Anybody could have developed Deron Williams.  Pat Riley?  Now that is laughable.  Who did he develop?  By your standards Doc has a stellar record: Rondo, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Big Baby, all are his successes.

     


    The Jazz teams of the 80's, 90's and early 2000's had many solid role players, and post malone no real star outside of williams and still made the playoffs regularly.

    As much as I hate to say this, the riley lakers developed many solid role players and starters over the 80's and 90's which kept them competitive even after Kareem and Magic retired. He then did the same for the Knicks in the early 90's and Miami after that. I don't like the don of gel any more than you do, but I have to give respect where it's due.

    Doc was forced to play Rondo during the rebuilding years and later he was a veteran. Avery only got to play one Ray got hurt and there was no one left. Big Baby got to play when Powe and the starter were hurting/limited. Jeff Green was already developed when he was traded for. Agan making excuses for a guy who doesn't develop people unless he's forced to.

    Let's use one that'll hit home with those who like to argue.. The man who should have been the Celtics coach:

    Tom Thibodeau. In his 2 years of coaching, he gave in his first year playing time in all 82 games to  rookie omar asik, 80 games to 2nd yr player taj gibson, and 13 to james johnson. Year 2 - Rookie jimmy butler played 42 games, asik played 66. This year rookie marcus teague played 48 games, butler played all 82 games, and second year player malcolm thomas played 7. This is despite being a playoff bound team. He know you need to develop your bench, and your future to make your team stronger overall. One injury could derail your team's chances and you need to have a player ready to step in to take over if that should happen. 

     

     
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