The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]Iverson was a much better player then Archibald. Archibald averaged over 16 ppg only 6 times in his career. In 47 playoff games Tiny averaged 14.2 ppg. Iverson averaged at least 22 ppg in his first 12 seasons. In 71 playoff games Allen averaged 29.7 ppg. Their rebounding and assist stats are similar. Defensively they were both sub-par defenders.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]

    Of course he did! If Tiny put up the amount of shots AI did he would have averaged 30 points a game. Before he came to the Celtics Tiny led the leagues in scoring. As a Celtic he was a facilitator and set up everyone else. AI could never do that he was too selfish!
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

     Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : Iverson averaged 1 assist lower than Archibald in his career. I guess that means he wasn't a facilitator and Archibald was...oy... Iverson led the league in scoring 4 times, was 2nd twice and was 3rd twice.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]

    How many Celtics have led the league in scoring? This is an overated stat usually dominated by players putting up too may shots and taking the rest of their team out of a game. How many years did Chamberlain win the scoring title and not win a championship? Scoring does not always equate to grateness, winning does!
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    Debates rage on and on.........Williams or DiMaggio......Mays or Aaron......Bird or Magic.......it's fun, but none of us really knows.  I remember Tiny on the KC-Omaha Kings.  Some guy named Cousy was his coach......he was a shoot first PG at the time.  When he came to BOS, he had a bad rep......he opted to change it for the good of the team. It worked out.  Later on, Tiny became kind of a PITA, though, complaining about PT, as Bill Fitch opted to go more and more with a relative unknown from VCU.  Tiny and Chris Ford were an unlikely backcourt, but they made it work.

    AI was a great player.  It will always remain an unknown, however, if he could have  subjected himself to not scoring so much.  He will forever be known for his "we talking 'bout practice" comments, AND the fact that after being out of the league for 2 years, he refused to sign with a team that wanted him off the bench......he HAD to start...sounding a lot like Tiny.
    IMHO, Iverson was better than Tiny......but my qualifier is that I would rather have Tiny on my team.
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : If Boston has a great scorer (Jordan/Shaq/Kobe/LeBron/Duncan/Durant) then Boston would have more than 1 championship in the last 25 years. How many scoring titles and championships did Jordan win? Robert Horry and Derek Fisher were never great players and at best were good players. Karl Malone, Barkley and Stockton were GREAT players that never won a championship.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]


    AHHHHH - Larry Joe Bird???????????????????????  In his early years, he could have led the league in scoring ANY TIME HE WANTED TO..................
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : So, he purposely did not want to lead the league in scoring because that is the Celtics way?
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]


    You really are twisted, you know that???  He didn't need to lead the league in scoring, his teams won 60 games every year.  What I am saying is this - MJ HAD to lead the league in scoring, because it's what the team needed him to do.  IF Bird had played on IND, and he felt he needed to get 30-35 per game - to help his team win more games - then he would have done so.  On BOS, with Max and Tiny, and later McHale and Parish........he didn't need to score 30 - 35.  He did whatever was needed to help the team win.


    Same argument with Russell...........some idiots come on here and say the guy "only averaged 15 PPG for his career."  Well, if he wanted to, he could have averaged 20-25......but we had Sam Jones, Havlicek, Cousy, et al to pick up the slack.  Russ did what was necessary to win......period!!
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : Since Boston has only won 1 championship i nthe last 25 years, why hasn't Paul Pierce stepped up his scoring so he can lead his team to a championship like Jordab did? Why hasn't Garnett scored more? So, when Boston was winning, Bird didn't have to score and Boston won... In the past 25 years, why hasn't anyone stepped up to score more? This confirm my point that if Boston had a top scorer, they would have won more. The same will happen to Boston this season. They don't have a consistent scoring threat that can carry them through games and the season. Stars lead teams to championships, not players like Jeff Green and Courtney Lee.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]


    Again, THICK!!!!  Do not put Pierce in the same sentence with Bird.  The ONLY player the Celtics have ever had who was CAPABLE of leading the league in scoring was Bird..........which I believe was the discussion.  You are now totally changing the parameters.  PP and KG are poor examples because they are not capable of leading the league in scoring, and never were.  Bird was, and could have...................
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : Again, you confirm my points. Boston hasn't had a top scorer since Bird which has resulted in 25 years of very little success. Yet, you make it seem like it's the Celtics way to not lead the league in scoring. If Boston traded for or signed more stars who could score, they would be more successful. Scoring less then 90 ppg in last years playoffs isn't going to lead  them to the championship.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]

    What points?  This started as a comparison between AI and Tiny....and last time I checked, the TWO leading scorers in the NBA last season went ringless.  Having the league's leading scorer means relatively nothing.

    Bird was introduced into the conversation by me because you said the Celtics have never had anyone capable of being a great scorer.  We've had only one in all the years we've been in the league.  That's my point, and my only point.  Yes, WE have only 1 title in the last 25 years (only lakers fan say that, by the way......POR has one in total, and many teams have zero), that is the result of poor managment and drafting....in 2008, we had 3 great scorers on our team, who all gave up a little, focused on D, and gave us a title.  LA won the next two.........since then, we are both about the same, despite koME finishing second in the league last year.  Irrelevant, he didn't win a ring.  Durant's third scoring title is great, but ask him if he'd trade one of those for a ring!!
    Defense wins titles - not offense.  The Heat shut down the Celtics and the Thunder when they had to.  They scored just enough to win.............the 120-115 days are over.......sorry to tell you!
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : Again, you confirm my points. Boston hasn't had a top scorer since Bird which has resulted in 25 years of very little success. Yet, you make it seem like it's the Celtics way to not lead the league in scoring. If Boston traded for or signed more stars who could score, they would be more successful. Scoring less then 90 ppg in last years playoffs isn't going to lead them to the championship.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]

    Show me a team that has been more successful. There have been many factors that contributed to the last 25 years starting with the death of Len Bias, followed by new ownership with no direction. Larry Bird was not the only Celtic who could have led the league in scoring. John Havlickek and Bill Russell are two that come to mind. As a team the emphasis was placed on team play not the individual. This is also true on defense and this philosophy led to the multiple championships. Many times the teams that they beat had as good or even better skilled players , but thy had no concept of team play . Unfortunately the NBA has evolved into star basketball and the end product is not as nice to watch. My opinion.
     
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    Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History

    In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The 25 Greatest Players in NBA History : There is no indication to believe that Russell could have been a great scorer. That is like saying Mutumbo could have been a great scorer. They were defensive and rebounding specialists.
    Posted by TommyRules[/QUOTE]


    And how many games did you see him play?
    How many of his teammates have you  actually spoken with?
    How many interviews have you read?

    He could have scored more if the team needed him to.
    15.1 for a career is not too shabby anyway
     

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