The Collins "Experiment"

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    The Collins "Experiment"

    Well Doc finally did something different for a change.   Instead of  continuing the same thing game after game he finally decided that we need some defense under the basket. After watching layup drills for thru our defense for 25 games we finally decided to try to stop it.  While Collins is not the long term answer. (I don't think)  He did a nice job of shutting down the dunks and layups for the most part.  

    I would have thought if a change was going to happen it might have been Wilcox inserted instead of Collins.  So Wilcox doesn't even play.  What does that mean?  Is Doc saying how bad Wilcox is on the defensive end?  He is obviously better than Collins on the offensive side. I would have thought that Wilcox would replace either Collins or KG when someone needed rest.  I suppose we had to keep some type of small ball going.

    The downside of the game was we got 54 minutes of play from our center and power forward position and got a grand total of 8 rebounds.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    It's more difficult shooting over a 7-foot Collins than a 6-8 Bass.

    I think Ainge should look into getting Pau Gasol again. Bass, Lee, and Green for Gasol.

    Pau Gasol, instead of Jason Collins, would be a huge upgrade.



    works for me.  I know one thing for certain,  we have to improve our rebounding and defense around the rim.  Adding a few points if icing on the cake.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    I know Melo is a rookie and would make more mistakes, but he should be able to provide the same type defense and offense that Collins brings.  Hang around the basket and not let anyone have layups,  foul hard.   He more than likely would block more shots as well.  If Melo played within his limits he should be able to do the same thing in the NBA at this time.  They both provide not offense.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    I know Melo is a rookie and would make more mistakes, but he should be able to provide the same type defense and offense that Collins brings.  Hang around the basket and not let anyone have layups,  foul hard.   He more than likely would block more shots as well.  If Melo played within his limits he should be able to do the same thing in the NBA at this time.  They both provide not offense.



    Whatever Collins provides it is hard to believe Melo could not provide some of the same with way more athleticism.  

     
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    Re: The Collins

    Collins will take this team in the direction it is in .500 or under.  We need a big man of skill now.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    I know Melo is a rookie and would make more mistakes, but he should be able to provide the same type defense and offense that Collins brings.  Hang around the basket and not let anyone have layups,  foul hard.   He more than likely would block more shots as well.  If Melo played within his limits he should be able to do the same thing in the NBA at this time.  They both provide not offense.




     

    I agree

     
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    Re: The Collins

    PP supposedly gave Collins the game ball last night. I guess even the players appreciate a true center more than Doc does.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    I know Melo is a rookie and would make more mistakes, but he should be able to provide the same type defense and offense that Collins brings.  Hang around the basket and not let anyone have layups,  foul hard.   He more than likely would block more shots as well.  If Melo played within his limits he should be able to do the same thing in the NBA at this time.  They both provide not offense.



    Whatever Collins provides it is hard to believe Melo could not provide some of the same with way more athleticism.  

    Well it's easy to think that, but there is a part of the equation you are missing. Defensive rotations. Most rookies, don't grasp them in the nba and give up a lot of points as a result. Melo is even more at a disadvantage playing nothing but Zone defense in college.

    Melo, has the tools to be ten times the center collins is, but in all likelihood he isn't ready. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: The Collins

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to concord27's comment:

    Collins will take this team in the direction it is in .500 or under.  We need a big man of skill now.



    In an article from the Herald, Ainge said he'll give this team more time before pushing the panic button.

    Or maybe Ainge is just waiting for Bass and Green to available on Jan. 15.

    We'll see. 



    With Bass they only need to wait. Even at his best he is not worth it.  With Green maybe you are right they want to give him more time.  They will need him in a deal to get Gortat.  The thing is Melo playing and showcasing his physical skills would be a good idea for this future move.  I hope they bring him up.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    Collins was great, he hustled, really defended the pick and roll well, and fouled hard. It was great  to see. We finally limited layups and points in the paint thanks to that collins kg combo. Doc thinking outside the box for once also refreshing. We forced cleveland to settle for jumpers and if  gee and zeller didnt hit all those jumpers it would have been an even bigger blowout.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA

     
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    Re: The Collins

    He also sets good picks, which allows the shooters to get more open looks and keeps the defense honest...Pierce got a lot of open looks...

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA



    Good is short for workmanlike.  If you watch him oncourt good never comes into mind.  He does not even look like a basketball player.  He's slow, without any nuance to his game and he literally can't score or play in any dynamic way. I think this use of him was an admittance that Gortat or other possibilites are not interested in Lee or whatever else can be put in a package.  This signing of Collins last summer showed me that they were not serious about contending this year.

     
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    Re: The Collins

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA



    Good is short for workmanlike.  If you watch him oncourt good never comes into mind.  He does not even look like a basketball player.  He's slow, without any nuance to his game and he literally can't score or play in any dynamic way. I think this use of him was an admittance that Gortat or other possibilites are not interested in Lee or whatever else can be put in a package.  This signing of Collins last summer showed me that they were not serious about contending this year.



    I don't get it, who would you suggest they have signed? There wern't exaclty a plethora of big men to choose from at mid level money (the money we had) 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: The Collins

    In response to jtkl's comment:

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    I know Melo is a rookie and would make more mistakes, but he should be able to provide the same type defense and offense that Collins brings.  Hang around the basket and not let anyone have layups,  foul hard.   He more than likely would block more shots as well.  If Melo played within his limits he should be able to do the same thing in the NBA at this time.  They both provide not offense.



    Whatever Collins provides it is hard to believe Melo could not provide some of the same with way more athleticism.  

    Well it's easy to think that, but there is a part of the equation you are missing. Defensive rotations. Most rookies, don't grasp them in the nba and give up a lot of points as a result. Melo is even more at a disadvantage playing nothing but Zone defense in college.

    Melo, has the tools to be ten times the center collins is, but in all likelihood he isn't ready. 

     



    You know we are talking about basketball here, not rocket science.  I get sick  about hearing people having to learn how to rotate and learn some offensive plays, etc.  Are these guys this stupid?   This is not that hard too learn.   I guess most NBA players would have a hard time working in the chemical plant I work at.  Way to much to learn too fast.  Well maybe they could mop the floors. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: The Collins

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA



    Good is short for workmanlike.  If you watch him oncourt good never comes into mind.  He does not even look like a basketball player.  He's slow, without any nuance to his game and he literally can't score or play in any dynamic way. I think this use of him was an admittance that Gortat or other possibilites are not interested in Lee or whatever else can be put in a package.  This signing of Collins last summer showed me that they were not serious about contending this year.



    Well I was hoping he would be our 3rd stringer, not the starter.  Oh well, being slow, can't score, or rebound,  sounds like Perk and we wont a ring with him.   I don't really care as long as he can stop a layup.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: The Collins

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA



    Good is short for workmanlike.  If you watch him oncourt good never comes into mind.  He does not even look like a basketball player.  He's slow, without any nuance to his game and he literally can't score or play in any dynamic way. I think this use of him was an admittance that Gortat or other possibilites are not interested in Lee or whatever else can be put in a package.  This signing of Collins last summer showed me that they were not serious about contending this year.



    Well I was hoping he would be our 3rd stringer, not the starter.  Oh well, being slow, can't score, or rebound,  sounds like Perk and we wont a ring with him.   I don't really care as long as he can stop a layup.



    I guess we just have to see if he can play well against other teams. The team gave him the game ball.  That must mean something.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: The Collins

    In response to 34wheelchair's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to OneOnOne's comment:

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:

    Collins has always been thought of as a good defensive center. Only problem with him is that he can't score or rebound.

    HA



    Good is short for workmanlike.  If you watch him oncourt good never comes into mind.  He does not even look like a basketball player.  He's slow, without any nuance to his game and he literally can't score or play in any dynamic way. I think this use of him was an admittance that Gortat or other possibilites are not interested in Lee or whatever else can be put in a package.  This signing of Collins last summer showed me that they were not serious about contending this year.



    Well I was hoping he would be our 3rd stringer, not the starter.  Oh well, being slow, can't score, or rebound,  sounds like Perk and we wont a ring with him.   I don't really care as long as he can stop a layup.




    Amen, brother.

    He also has an intimidation factor I noticed.

    Hard fouls will do that for you.



    WHERE IS NON-FAB'S 6 HARD FOULS THAT YOU SAID HE WOULD HAVE WHEN HE WAS CALLED UP TO THE CELTICS FOR A DAY???????

    OH YEAH, HE IS GETTING HIS SHARE OF FOULS IN THE D-LEAGUE!!!!!!!!!!




    TWO DAYS!!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: The Collins

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You know we are talking about basketball here, not rocket science.  I get sick  about hearing people having to learn how to rotate and learn some offensive plays, etc.  Are these guys this stupid?   This is not that hard too learn.   I guess most NBA players would have a hard time working in the chemical plant I work at.  Way to much to learn too fast.  Well maybe they could mop the floors. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If you play the game, you know that its not rocket science but it is FAST.  One can "think" about it like chess but your body has to react fast so you have to learn to do it instinctually and quickly and effectively.  That is learned behavior, not just something anyone can do.

    By the way, all the time you think you know it, the opposition is also thinking and reacting with speed and agility.   So, even when you learn it, you have to learn the nuances of when to abandon the play because the opposition has reacted and the situation is not right.

    Its always easy for us to Monday morning quarterback each play.  Its not so easy to do it when the guy opposite you is 6'5", 240lbs, and fast and can jump over the moon or shoot the lights out.

     
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