The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

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    The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

      


     


     


     


     http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    Above players were the only players that Russ faced in 1957-58 that were were 6'10" or taller that played at least 1100 minutes that season. 1100 minutes places a player in the top 7or 8 players on a teams roster in terms of minutes played. Notice the terrible fg% for those players. And that was back in the days of the 12' lane, when a player standing just outside the lane,  with just 1 step toward the basket  had an easy dunk or lay-up.


     Here are the weights for those 4 players. Dukes- 220


                                                                 Felix- 215


                                                                 Share-235


                                                                Russell-215


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     I used the 2nd year of their careers because Russell played considerably less than a full season his 1st year. Also note that there were only 8 teams in 1957-58.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    dhs1950

     
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    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

     rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    Above players were the only players that Russ faced in 1957-58 that were were 6'10" or taller that played at least 1100 minutes that season. 1100 minutes places a player in the top 7or 8 players on a teams roster in terms of minutes played. Notice the terrible fg% for those players. And that was back in the days of the 12' lane, when a player standing just outside the lane,  with just 1 step toward the basket  had an easy dunk or lay-up.


     


     


     


     I used the 2nd year of their careers because Russell played considerably less than a full season his 1st year. Also note that there were only 8 teams in 1957-58.


     


     


     


    The data for Akeem in my next post


     


     


     


    dhs1950


    [/QUOTE]


     
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    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]


     rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    Above players were the only players that Russ faced in 1957-58 that were were 6'10" or taller that played at least 1100 minutes that season. 1100 minutes places a player in the top 7or 8 players on a teams roster in terms of minutes played. Notice the terrible fg% for those players. And that was back in the days of the 12' lane, when a player standing just outside the lane,  with just 1 step toward the basket  had an easy dunk or lay-up.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


     I used the 2nd year of their careers because Russell played considerably less than a full season his 1st year. Also note that there were only 8 teams in 1957-58.


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    The data for Akeem in my next post


     


     


     


     


     


     


     


    dhs1950


     


     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    Don't know why the 3 duplications occurred. Also, to pull up the link just click onto the bottom 2 lines

    dhs1950

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_minute&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1986&year_max=1986&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=82&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1100&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg2_pct

     And here's the link for Akeem. There were 23 teams in 1985-86.

     

    dhs1950

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    These posts are way to spread out. 

    You can delete the empty space you know.

    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 

    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 

    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.

    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.

    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.

    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    These posts are way to spread out. 

    You can delete the empty space you know.

    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 

    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 

    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.

    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.

    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.

    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 

    [/QUOTE]

    rameakap,

      I'm at a lost to explain the spacing and the fouled up links. What's the secret to fixing the spacing on this post?

    dhs1950.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    These posts are way to spread out. 

    You can delete the empty space you know.

    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 

    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 

    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.

    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.

    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.

    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 

    [/QUOTE]

    rameakap,

      I'm at a lost to explain the spacing and the fouled up links. What's the secret to fixing the spacing on this post?

    dhs1950.

    [/QUOTE]

    Stats alone do not a great player comparison make. Nobody you will mention will compare to Bill R's 11 titles in 13 years. I think you are simply trying to troll Celtic fans. (click - IGNORE)

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to mellymel3's comment:


    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    These posts are way to spread out. 


    You can delete the empty space you know.


    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 


    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 


    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.


    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.


    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.


    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 




    rameakap,


      I'm at a lost to explain the spacing and the fouled up links. What's the secret to fixing the spacing on this post?


    dhs1950.


    [/QUOTE]

    Stats alone do not a great player comparison make. Nobody you will mention will compare to Bill R's 11 titles in 13 years. I think you are simply trying to troll Celtic fans. (click - IGNORE)


    [/QUOTE]

    With most old timer Celtic fans its always been Russell. I too was in the Russell camp until about 7 years ago when basketball reference opened up for me, the chance to make serious generational comparisons. In all fairness to the Celtic fans of the last 35 or so years who didn't actually witness, as an adult, NBA basketball in those early years, I thought I'd throw out some numbers just to point out how bad the league was back in those early years. But you did the right thing when you put me on ignore. If the numbers bother you- don't view them.


    dhs1950  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to dhs1950's comment:


    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    These posts are way to spread out. 


    You can delete the empty space you know.


    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 


    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 


    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.


    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.


    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.


    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 




    rameakap,


      I'm at a lost to explain the spacing and the fouled up links. What's the secret to fixing the spacing on this post?


    dhs1950.


    [/QUOTE]

    Just edit them and backspace a ton between all your spaces.


    By the way dhs don't listen to Mel, he hasn't said a positive thing about this team in ages

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mellymel3's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to rameakap's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    These posts are way to spread out. 

     

    You can delete the empty space you know.

     

    Olajuwon didn't win 11 titles in 13 years. That trumps a lot. even if there were only 12 teams. 

     

    But I said in the thread about greatest of all time that Hakeem is my 3rd center after Russ and Kareem. I'd take him over Wilt. I also said that he was more like 6'10" than 7' and (like Russ) such an extremely good athlete that he could guard either forward position as well. 

     

    That is why on my All-time 5 I'd go to war with I put Russ at PF alongside Kareem at center. You could just as easily put Hakeem, McHale or KG in that PF spot as well. Duncan may very well be the best PF of all time, and Malone has the stats to be, but give me any of those 4 guys at PF over the two of them when creating an all-time lineup.

     

    Duncan is/was a great defender. But Russ, KG, McHale and Hakeem were all maniacal defenders in their primes, capable of shadowing a Dominique (McHale), Kobe (KG), Pettit (Russ) and Bird (Hakeem) out on the perimeter in big playoff series just as they were capable of playing down low.

     

    Russ is clearly a top 3 player of all-time. I really think only Bill, Kareem and MJ can ever be in that top 3. But, Hakeem has more than enough 1985-2000 "the league was more competitive" arguments in his favor to make me think it'd be a draw as far as who I'd want on my all-time top 5.

     

    But be assured, it would be at PF and not center with Kareem and his unguardable skyhook in that spot. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    rameakap,

     

     

      I'm at a lost to explain the spacing and the fouled up links. What's the secret to fixing the spacing on this post?

     

    dhs1950.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Stats alone do not a great player comparison make. Nobody you will mention will compare to Bill R's 11 titles in 13 years. I think you are simply trying to troll Celtic fans. (click - IGNORE)

     

    [/QUOTE]

    With most old timer Celtic fans its always been Russell. I too was in the Russell camp until about 7 years ago when basketball reference opened up for me, the chance to make serious generational comparisons. In all fairness to the Celtic fans of the last 35 or so years who didn't actually witness, as an adult, NBA basketball in those early years, I thought I'd throw out some numbers just to point out how bad the league was back in those early years. But you did the right thing when you put me on ignore. If the numbers bother you- don't view them.

     

    dhs1950  

    [/QUOTE]
    Hey raised by the DHS, 11 rings , 2 as player coach, 2NCCA championships, 2 Olympic Gold, Has a trophy named after him so when you actually have something other than your present contrived, jaundiced, inconsequential , dullard  derived statistical abstracts to base your inane attempt to rustle feathers, get back to me. What a maroon!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    I'd have to agree with the sentiment that stats NEVER tell the complete story and many times are misleading.

    If you want to use the stats from the 50's & 60's, the poor shooting percentages etc, then couldnt we reverse the perspective and conclude the defense back then was far superior than present day and therefore Hakeems PPG average would be dramatically lowered had he played back then?

    Its tough comparing players from different generations using stats. Hey, no 3pt shot back then, how would that change Jerry Wests stats & the game..maybe he'd have 11 titles if that was the case.

    I posted before that had Larry Bird played in the 60's, instead of the 80's, many would have regarded him as unable to compete in the 80's because athletes of the 80's were so much faster, stronger etc. Understanding the game and how to play it has little to do with athleticism. Being quick and fast can certainly help but it can also be a hindrance. 

    Look around the league today and notice how many rely upon physical ability instead of knowing how to play the game. This is demonstrated in international play, where the USA college kids (once dominant) are no longer a match in the Olympics and in recent years, Team USA full of NBA players are no longer a lock either.. we've lost many World games because many international teams play the game better than us. We fast break and dunk.

    Its not stats and athleticism, its playing the game and knowing how to win it.. Russ stands alone

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    I am not supporting Olajuwon as better than Russ, who I have put #2 all-time and already discussed.

    I will say that his Rockets won 45+ games in 10 of his seasons there, 50+ in 5 and he won two titles and was clearly the best player at his position for a dozen years at least as Kareem, Moses and Parish passed the torch to him, Ewing and Robinson and Hakeem DOMINATED those two throughout his career before DOMINATING Shaq and finally passing the torch to Shaq, Mourning and Duncan in the late 90's. 

    Russ had Couz and Tommy early on, Havilcek later on and Sam the entire time. Hakeem got 2-3 decent years out of Sampson in the 80's and Drexler in the 90's and that was it. He also ran into Bird, Magic and Jordan and they had all-star teammates. 

    If Hakeem had Drexler alongside him his ENTIRE career (Sam Jones in this analogy) and an older Cousey-esque guard in the 80's (Mo Cheeks for instance) then who knows how much more he could have won. His Sampson to Thorpe to Drexler years were I guess like Russ having 13 straight with Havlicek or Hondo.

    The point is, NOBODY should put Olajuwon above Russ. But EVERYBODY should put him above Shaq and Moses and the debate for 3rd best center of all-time should be Wilt or Hakeem. As I said before, if I wanted to pick 5 players all-time to take on all comers I would have Kareem as my center (mostly b/c he was 7'2" and the skyhook unstoppable) and then would be fine with either the 6'9" Russell or the 6'11" Olajuwon as my PF with the athletic ability to guard SF's and rim protect like non other. KG and McHale would follow at PF, trumping Malone and Duncan b/c they showed in the playoffs they could defend the likes of Kobe and Dominique while still scoring 20+.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    The debate about top centers is a tough one but I dont see anyone entering into the picture for top 3 other than Russ, Kareem & Wilt.

    We can "what if" things to death here as you point out Hakeems weaker teammates... Its my feeling that Russ's teammates werent all they've been cracked up to be. Many are in the HOF because of the championships. Guys like Satch, a career 9 ppg, 6rpg player,  just wouldnt make HOF if he played with anyone else other than Russell. For that, you have to give Russell substantial credit, something that has to seperate him from the others

    Also on the what if list is if MJ didnt take a 2 year vacation, Hakeem's teams likely dont win any titles. How fortunate for Hakeem.

    Back to the issue, Hakeem is up there on the list, I just dont know where I'd put him but it would be high. Hes just not a slam dunk for top 5 in my book but might be there. hard to say.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    Its amazing how the opinions on this subject almost always are swayed by the generation  in which one grew up in. Its almost like theirs a good old days syndrome that creates the perception that things were better back then.

    I personally don't pay any attention to the number of rings that a player has because  its an award for a team achievement.  I prefer to view a players achievements in the context of the level of play during any given generation. And in that respect its my opinion that the players of the 50's and 60's were far less talented than the players of the last 25 years.

    dhs1950

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    I thought the purpose of this thread was to compare Hakeem to Russell, not the 50s-60s to today.

    IT seems to me you're comparing stats, in which case Wilt would be the greatest player in history and nobody else would deserve a mention.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    Just as information, Satch Sanders was elected to the Hall of Fame as a "contributor" not as a player......

    THE DUKE

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

     


     


    I thought the purpose of this thread was to compare Hakeem to Russell, not the 50s-60s to today.


    IT seems to me you're comparing stats, in which case Wilt would be the greatest player in history and nobody else would deserve a mention.


     


    [/QUOTE]

    Karllost


    Note the headline. The competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd seasons.


    Perhaps I didn't make things clear enough. The charts that I posted were  to illustrate the competition that Russ and Akeem faced in there 2'nd seasons in the nba. Note the comparative size difference and shooting skill level between the two generations.  Also, by clicking onto each players name you be able to get the players weight. The players that Akeem played against were much heavier.


    Like Russell, Wilt also Played against a much inferior group of players in his I'st year in 1959.


    dhs1950

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: The Competition-Russell vs Olajuwon in their 2nd year.

    In response to rameakap's comment:


    I am not supporting Olajuwon as better than Russ, who I have put #2 all-time and already discussed.


    I will say that his Rockets won 45+ games in 10 of his seasons there, 50+ in 5 and he won two titles and was clearly the best player at his position for a dozen years at least as Kareem, Moses and Parish passed the torch to him, Ewing and Robinson and Hakeem DOMINATED those two throughout his career before DOMINATING Shaq and finally passing the torch to Shaq, Mourning and Duncan in the late 90's. 


    Russ had Couz and Tommy early on, Havilcek later on and Sam the entire time. Hakeem got 2-3 decent years out of Sampson in the 80's and Drexler in the 90's and that was it. He also ran into Bird, Magic and Jordan and they had all-star teammates. 


    If Hakeem had Drexler alongside him his ENTIRE career (Sam Jones in this analogy) and an older Cousey-esque guard in the 80's (Mo Cheeks for instance) then who knows how much more he could have won. His Sampson to Thorpe to Drexler years were I guess like Russ having 13 straight with Havlicek or Hondo.


    The point is, NOBODY should put Olajuwon above Russ. But EVERYBODY should put him above Shaq and Moses and the debate for 3rd best center of all-time should be Wilt or Hakeem. As I said before, if I wanted to pick 5 players all-time to take on all comers I would have Kareem as my center (mostly b/c he was 7'2" and the skyhook unstoppable) and then would be fine with either the 6'9" Russell or the 6'11" Olajuwon as my PF with the athletic ability to guard SF's and rim protect like non other. KG and McHale would follow at PF, trumping Malone and Duncan b/c they showed in the playoffs they could defend the likes of Kobe and Dominique while still scoring 20+.  




    You, sir, are a childish temper-fueled fool who attacks anyone who disagrees with you...always have been, always will be. Please thrill us all with one of your hydra-headed, multi-team trade specialties you are so famous for, one of your NBA Rube Goldberg trade devices only a fellow Dungeons and Dragons loving 17 year old wants to suffer through.


    If you actually knew anything about basketball you'd be dangerous...but as you currently are, you and dhs should get along just fine. You appear to be the only fool here to agree with him even a wee bit...he is obviously an anti-Celtic troll simply trying to bait people into an argument. Congratulations for feeding the troll. No wonder your nic here is "Lame Rame"


    Where is that trade BTW?


    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


    Also...when the Celtics start winning more than they lose, I'll say and believe nice things about them. I'm NOT a "pink hat" wearer.

     
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