The drastically improving Jeff Green

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    The drastically improving Jeff Green

    When Green was traded for Perk I remember actually feeling sick to my stomach. Everything I read about him indicated he was fool's gold. A shiny player who could make a higlight play that would leave you drooling at his potential but nothing else.  What's more the advanced metric guys hated him.

     

    Basically according to Adjusted Plus/Minus stats every team Green is on becomes worse the minute he takes the court. This despite putting up a solid 15 points a game for his career.  Most of the articles by guys like Hollinger indicate terrible defense as the culprit. If Jeff scored 17 points he gave up 20. If he got 5 rebounds his opponent got 10. Basically the label I kept reading was tweener. Too small for the Power forward too slow for the Small Forward. (Believe it or not despite being a gazelle Green has little lateral quickness. one article I read indicated that Darko and Chris Wilcox a Center and a four both had better lateral quickness than Green.) 

     

    This year after heart surgery Green was basically, the same ole Jeff Green. according to stats (all form celticsblog which had a great piece on Green today.)

     

    here are his advanced numbers for the first few months of the season. The higher the offensive rating the better. The lower the Defensive rating the better. As you can see Green's offensive is average the first month and his defense is terrible. The second month the offense regresses to terrible and the defense does improve some but his impact on the game is still negative. 

     

    November:  Offensive Rating 102.6  Defensive Rating.  122.3  

     

    December:  Offensive Rating 94.4  Defensive Rating.  100.2 

     

    So in both cases his defensive shortcomings out weigh his offensive contributions. Par for his career with both the Celtics and Thunder. These last two months though he has completely turned it around.

     

    January:  Offensive Rating 101.1  Defensive Rating.  96.1  

     

    February:  Offensive Rating 104.1  Defensive Rating.  89.8

    In February so far has been outstanding and in  that stretch was the game where Green held Lebron to one of his worst games of the year. If Green keeps playing like this he can be the player we all hoped we’d be getting.  Which is pretty cool because the guy has mad talent. Who knows if he can keep it up but if he can this team might make some serious noise. 

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    Did you expect anything else? He was a huge dissapointment early this season because it was evident that he could ball and that he hadn't reached his full potential yet.

     

    I would have been more surprised if Jeff stayed below 10 & 5 the entire season.

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    Seriously though, RONDO I'm speaking to you. Your biggest failure this year was not finding a way to turn Jeff into a superstar. I see that as Rondo's biggest challenge that he should reflect upon during his recovery: how to form a cohesive game with Jeff.

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    In response to R9R's comment:

    Did you expect anything else? He was a huge dissapointment early this season because it was evident that he could ball and that he hadn't reached his full potential yet.

     

    I would have been more surprised if Jeff stayed below 10 & 5 the entire season.



    Yes, I did expect less. he had a few full seasons with the Thunder and half a season with the Celtics and EVERYTIME he got on the court the team got worse. Everytime. 

     

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    In response to R9R's comment:

     

    Seriously though, RONDO I'm speaking to you. Your biggest failure this year was not finding a way to turn Jeff into a superstar. I see that as Rondo's biggest challenge that he should reflect upon during his recovery: how to form a cohesive game with Jeff.

     



    And Durant and WESTBROOK I hope, because Green was having the same  negative impact his few years with the Thunder. 

     

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    Can you really rely on a +/- stat for a team like the Thunder that had Durant, Westbrook, Green, Harden ...

    Jeff (early in his career) was forced to start as a 4 on a very non-defensive minded team. I just hate that stat, it makes very little sense out of context. I think that Jeff was a classic example of good player, wrong fit. The Thunder absolutely needed to add toughness (hence the interest in Perk). Jeff was not at the point in his career where he had the experience to bring that to the table. Now that Jeff has been on a Defense-first team for about a full season now, he has more of that type of experience. Again, great player, wrong fit.

    Plus, how serious was that Thunder team? It was a bunch of lottery picks playing together. They were relying on organic leadership and toughness. That stuff does not come easy. I think the move to the Celtics really was a great move for Jeff's career. Lets hope he gets one more season to play and learn from Paul and Kev

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    In response to R9R's comment:

    Can you really rely on a +/- stat for a team like the Thunder that had Durant, Westbrook, Green, Harden ...

    Jeff (early in his career) was forced to start as a 4 on a very non-defensive minded team. I just hate that stat, it makes very little sense out of context. I think that Jeff was a classic example of good player, wrong fit. The Thunder absolutely needed to add toughness (hence the interest in Perk). Jeff was not at the point in his career where he had the experience to bring that to the table. Now that Jeff has been on a Defense-first team for about a full season now, he has more of that type of experience. Again, great player, wrong fit.

    Plus, how serious was that Thunder team? It was a bunch of lottery picks playing together. They were relying on organic leadership and toughness. That stuff does not come easy. I think the move to the Celtics really was a great move for Jeff's career. Lets hope he gets one more season to play and learn from Paul and Kev



    Well, I'm talking adjusted plus minus. Basicaly eary in his career (I'm going from memory) Green's PER at the four was like 15. the problem was opposing fours had PER of 19 (Garnett level) against Green. his defense for his career has been terrible. Usally he hurts teams more than helps. 

     

    Oh and This year Green has been much better at the four for the Celtics. with a PER 15.9 vs a PER of 9.8 at the three.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    In response to R9R's comment:

    Can you really rely on a +/- stat for a team like the Thunder that had Durant, Westbrook, Green, Harden ...

    Jeff (early in his career) was forced to start as a 4 on a very non-defensive minded team. I just hate that stat, it makes very little sense out of context. I think that Jeff was a classic example of good player, wrong fit. The Thunder absolutely needed to add toughness (hence the interest in Perk). Jeff was not at the point in his career where he had the experience to bring that to the table. Now that Jeff has been on a Defense-first team for about a full season now, he has more of that type of experience. Again, great player, wrong fit.

    Plus, how serious was that Thunder team? It was a bunch of lottery picks playing together. They were relying on organic leadership and toughness. That stuff does not come easy. I think the move to the Celtics really was a great move for Jeff's career. Lets hope he gets one more season to play and learn from Paul and Kev



    Also look at his numbers on the defensife end early i the season. Is it Rondo's fault Green was getting abused. He has turned it around and I'm glad Green is suposedly one of the nicest guys in the league and he is playing great now. I hope he continues it. 

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    All the trade ideas floating around ... I got a solution. PLAY JEFF FOR 10 MORE MINUTES A GAME. I just don't see a reason why Paul & Jeff can't share the floor for more of the game. They are a great combo and allows us to go small with Paul at the 3 jeff at the 4 or big with Paul at the 2 and Jeff at the 3.

     

    Jeff's at roughly 30 mpg. Come playoffs I don't see why he can't play 40 mpg

     
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    Re: The drastically improving Jeff Green

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Play Jeff at the 2 and Pierce at the 3.

    I have been calling for it all year.

    KG, Bass, Pierce, Green, and Lee or Bradley.



    I know, and I willing to be open on being wrong on this but it sounds CRAZY to me. Green has less lateral quickness than Darko Millicic. A Center.  less than Wilxcox our backup center. I mean, maybe I'm underestimating Uncle Jeff (for you Fierce!) but I don't think he can cover guys like Ray Allen running through screens. 

    If it is ever going to happen it will be soon though as Doc, will be doing some intersting lineups with the shortage of players he has. 

     
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