The Elite PG is THE Problem

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    The Elite PG is THE Problem

    Rondo is an exceptional basketball athlete.  Statistically one of the best in the NBA today.  His assist production is off the charts.  He can string together double-doubles with a triple double here and there like nobody since Magic.  When Rondo plays well and the team is in sync with his play, the Celtics win against anybody. Thats the good news.

    The bad news is that like Allen Iverson and Wilt Chamberlain, also extraordinary players, they all lacked leadership qualities that are so important to team chemistry and on court team performance...and coordinating an off-season charity event with the team does not define leadership.

    Despite his positive attributes, I believe HE is the reason that the Celtics play so inconsistenly.  When Rondo's head isn't into the game, he doesn't play any D and his offense is sub-standard. The top 6-7 PGs in the league blow by him with regularity and brake down the rest of the Celtics defense. On offense, he too often holds the ball out front and paralizes the offense. This is what drove Ray Allen crazy.  He turns the ball over too much.  And why is it that when the Celtics need a key basket with time running out, its the worst shooter on the team, Rondo, who holds the ball for 12 seconds and launches a long range prayer that never goes in...  

    Rondo may be one of the best PGs in the league and the best player on the Celtics...but the team does not play well as a unit with Rondo at the point and does not respond to him as the proclaimed team leader.  He hurts team chemistry and team play just like AI. 

    I would much rather have a PG who plays smart and hard CONSISTENTLY day in and day out. A PG who makes others on the team better and orchestrates a natural team flow on the floor and better chemistry in the locker room than Rondo's statistics and potential.

    Rondo is a key asset to the Celtics and he is also the key liability. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    This team needs Bradley. Rondo is not the problem.  We are short a big man and Pierce is now far more ineffective than he has ever been.  Rondo could play better defense for sure but he can't make Paul thirty years old or Green the player we all hoped he'd be.  KG needs a big body upfront as well.  Rondo is going to be the best player we have by far.  

     

    You mention he turns the ball over too much, have you noticed how many balls PP loses. He is a turnover machine.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    Yeah.  Rondo is the problem.

    Makes sense.

    I mean the starting sf, sg and pf are not playing well, the Starting center has just been okay, the bench has been wildly inconsistent and the defense has been horrible.

    Starting PG is averagiing 16 points and 14 assists a game.

    Yep.  It's his fault.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    You make very good points and your initial paragraph is spot on.  Rondo is one of the best PGs in the NBA today.  I think he is still developing as a leader and has a way to go.  I remember our leader some years back got ejected from a playoff game and showed up at the post game press conference with his head taped.  I think Rondo will continue to develop as a leader.

    The only problem I have with Rondo is on the defensive end.  The team is having major issues defensively but, to me, it starts with Rondo.  He's allowing too much dribble penetration by opposing PGs and that's causing our bigs to step up.  And with so many new guys just not having that defensive continuity yet, that makes our defense so much more vulnerable.

    At times, Rondo appears to play man-on-man defense (without any pick and rolls) standing straight up.  He oftentimes allows his man to get past him only to attempt that swipe from behind.  And on pick and rolls, he does not fight through them hard enough and that causes breakdowns.

    Yeah, I want Rondo to move the ball to a more effiicent/capable shooter as the shot clock winds down but it's his defense that is causing me the most frustration.

    Offensively, he's one of the bright spots.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Rondo is an exceptional basketball athlete.  Statistically one of the best in the NBA today.  His assist production is off the charts.  He can string together double-doubles with a triple double here and there like nobody since Magic.  When Rondo plays well and the team is in sync with his play, the Celtics win against anybody. Thats the good news.

    The bad news is that like Allen Iverson and Wilt Chamberlain, also extraordinary players, they all lacked leadership qualities that are so important to team chemistry and on court team performance...and coordinating an off-season charity event with the team does not define leadership.

    Despite his positive attributes, I believe HE is the reason that the Celtics play so inconsistenly.  When Rondo's head isn't into the game, he doesn't play any D and his offense is sub-standard. The top 6-7 PGs in the league blow by him with regularity and brake down the rest of the Celtics defense. On offense, he too often holds the ball out front and paralizes the offense. This is what drove Ray Allen crazy.  He turns the ball over too much.  And why is it that when the Celtics need a key basket with time running out, its the worst shooter on the team, Rondo, who holds the ball for 12 seconds and launches a long range prayer that never goes in...  

    Rondo may be one of the best PGs in the league and the best player on the Celtics...but the team does not play well as a unit with Rondo at the point and does not respond to him as the proclaimed team leader.  He hurts team chemistry and team play just like AI. 

    I would much rather have a PG who plays smart and hard CONSISTENTLY day in and day out. A PG who makes others on the team better and orchestrates a natural team flow on the floor and better chemistry in the locker room than Rondo's statistics and potential.

    Rondo is a key asset to the Celtics and he is also the key liability. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Rondo is not a leader.

    He is a follower... when his head is in the game.

    When it is not, he struggles and does neither.

    General George Patton once said.... "Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way."

    Rondo would be throwing childish tantrums if he were in Patton's army.

    Pud

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    I mean the starting sf, sg and pf are not playing well, the Starting center has just been okay, the bench has been wildly inconsistent and the defense has been horrible.

    Starting PG is averagiing 16 points and 14 assists a game.

    ---------------

    Exactly. If you could comprehend my post...1). the sf, sg, pf and center are playing substandard because the floor leader is not getting them into a natural flow and helping make them better. 2). the D has been horible because Rondo lets his man drive in the lane uncontested. and 3). Stats mean nothing.  I repeat, its all about Rondo's lack of effective leadership, consistent play and poisonous on court and locker room chemistry.  



     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CHEisCHE. Show CHEisCHE's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    Why make another thread?

    Is the previous on going thread not ELITE enough?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    we already know your true colors, dunker. why don't you wait until after chemistry - a key consideration w/ all the new pieces - has had time to kick in? then, when team continues to blow, your negativity threads will pack a bit of wallop, instead of not mean jack. 

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Exactly. If you could comprehend my post...1). the sf, sg, pf and center are playing substandard because the floor leader is not getting them into a natural flow and helping make them better.

    [/QUOTE]

    And that statement is beyond comprehension.  Rondo has an amazing ability to exploit the natural flow and get people shots.  The sg and pf are simply not getting a flow going.  Don't know what you are watching.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I mean the starting sf, sg and pf are not playing well, the Starting center has just been okay, the bench has been wildly inconsistent and the defense has been horrible.

    Starting PG is averagiing 16 points and 14 assists a game.

    ---------------

    Exactly. If you could comprehend my post...1). the sf, sg, pf and center are playing substandard because the floor leader is not getting them into a natural flow and helping make them better. 2). the D has been horible because Rondo lets his man drive in the lane uncontested. and 3). Stats mean nothing.  I repeat, its all about Rondo's lack of effective leadership, consistent play and poisonous on court and locker room chemistry.  



    [/QUOTE]

    Can you comprehend how bad this team with be if rondo went down with an injury?

    Are the other 14 guys so weak that Rondo is making all of them play bad? None of them are to blame it is just that Rondo is making them lazy?

    All right then.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to BaileyPowe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    we already know your true colors, dunker. why don't you wait until after chemistry - a key consideration w/ all the new pieces - has had time to kick in? then, when team continues to blow, your negativity threads will pack a bit of wallop, instead of not mean jack. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Oh stop "the true colors" chorus of the sheeple. I've been a Celtics ticket holder and devote fan for longer than you've been alive. Take off your cheerleader skirt and learn how to engage in positive critque and discussion. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamLock. Show JamLock's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Rondo is an exceptional basketball athlete.  Statistically one of the best in the NBA today.  His assist production is off the charts.  He can string together double-doubles with a triple double here and there like nobody since Magic.  When Rondo plays well and the team is in sync with his play, the Celtics win against anybody. Thats the good news.

    The bad news is that like Allen Iverson and Wilt Chamberlain, also extraordinary players, they all lacked leadership qualities that are so important to team chemistry and on court team performance...and coordinating an off-season charity event with the team does not define leadership.

    Despite his positive attributes, I believe HE is the reason that the Celtics play so inconsistenly.  When Rondo's head isn't into the game, he doesn't play any D and his offense is sub-standard. The top 6-7 PGs in the league blow by him with regularity and brake down the rest of the Celtics defense. On offense, he too often holds the ball out front and paralizes the offense. This is what drove Ray Allen crazy.  He turns the ball over too much.  And why is it that when the Celtics need a key basket with time running out, its the worst shooter on the team, Rondo, who holds the ball for 12 seconds and launches a long range prayer that never goes in...  

    Rondo may be one of the best PGs in the league and the best player on the Celtics...but the team does not play well as a unit with Rondo at the point and does not respond to him as the proclaimed team leader.  He hurts team chemistry and team play just like AI. 

    I would much rather have a PG who plays smart and hard CONSISTENTLY day in and day out. A PG who makes others on the team better and orchestrates a natural team flow on the floor and better chemistry in the locker room than Rondo's statistics and potential.

    Rondo is a key asset to the Celtics and he is also the key liability. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Rondo is an elite point guard in the present day Association, if not the ELITE PG as the thread's title point outs.  As the season progresses, we will begin to see what Bob Cousy and Tiny Archibald have articulated about Rondo.  Probably the best in Celtics history!  High praise from two of the best.

    As Always,

    CELTICS RULE THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    JamLock

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to JamLock's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Rondo is an elite point guard in the present day Association, if not the ELITE PG as the thread's title point outs.  As the season progresses, we will begin to see what Bob Cousy and Tiny Archibald have articulated about Rondo.  Probably the best in Celtics history!  High praise from two of the best.


    JamLock

    [/QUOTE]

    Year seven... and "we will BEGIN TO SEE...." ????

    When will we FINALLY see?

    Pud

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    lol.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    Rondo is not the problem. Total lack of chemistry is the problem.A lack of familuarity with each other leads to thinking too much and guessing on both sides of the ball. This leads to bad rotations,over passng and missed easy shots. I believe  that we wll gel about a month after AB returns. We changed 70% of our roster and  are missing  a player who was slated to have a very big role on this team. Add to that we are finding out who and what works with who and what, I think we're doing pretty good so far to be 3-2. Every game we have a few minutes where we have a good flow and we look like we are about  blow somebody away and then we start to get bogged down by making wrong or late switches on D or run broken sets on O and thats when we get into trouble. If you have ever even touched a basketball you've heard the saying " Study too long and your sure to go wrong"andthats our problem as a team right now  we have no flow and we're thinking too much. I totally feel we will be fine by Jan.

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to Kirk6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    When Rondo is out of the game, we run our offense.

    When Rondo is in the game, he dribbles too much.

    [/QUOTE]

    And I thought this style of play was only because of Ray Allen?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    i must admit that i love fast break / hurry up pace rondo and abhor half court rondo standing there flattening the ball into the ground yelling out orders.  if they don't know what to do by now then we're cooked. 


    with all the advanced stats tripe, isn't there a stat that quantifies the number of posessions a starting PG's team goes under 5 seconds on the shot clock while said starting PG is in the floor.  who would lead the league in this other than rondo?

    there is no reason for his defense not being better- it's all about his head.  fundamentals are not optional.  there is no way that the others we see blow by him and tie him in knots should be able to do that if you're knees bent and staring at the gut of that player.  rondo is too fast to get smoked by these guys

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    i guess the biggest problem is when a pick comes, rondo seems to enjoy getting lost in it.


    but anyway, i wouldn't term him this team's biggest "problem" by a long shot.  overplaying KG at the 5, jeff green and NO BACKUP FOR RONDO (can't we get him under 40 minutes a game?!) in addition to sub marginal integration and functionality of the new additions are what's dogging this team.

    letting steamer go like we had a 'better plan' of some sort and then acquiring castoffs collins (fat, washed up) and darko (small chance of giving us 10 mins / night?, eventually?) was a travesty in judgement. 


    if kg didn't gas out last year in the playoffs, we still had a chance.  hint: he gassed out from playing too much 5

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    I love this thread.

     

    15 guys on the Celtics.

     

    Rondo is the problem.

     

    AHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH

     

    Oh my sides.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to aciemvp's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i guess the biggest problem is when a pick comes, rondo seems to enjoy getting lost in it.


    but anyway, i wouldn't term him this team's biggest "problem" by a long shot.  overplaying KG at the 5, jeff green and NO BACKUP FOR RONDO (can't we get him under 40 minutes a game?!) in addition to sub marginal integration and functionality of the new additions are what's dogging this team.

    letting steamer go like we had a 'better plan' of some sort and then acquiring castoffs collins (fat, washed up) and darko (small chance of giving us 10 mins / night?, eventually?) was a travesty in judgement. 


    if kg didn't gas out last year in the playoffs, we still had a chance.  hint: he gassed out from playing too much 5

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly.  Even if you don't like Rondo saying he "is the problem" when Pierce isn't Pierce anymore, KG isn't KG anymore, Lee has done nothing, Bass is just average, there are no decent back up bigs and as you said no true back up pg on the roster.

    Yep Rondo is the problem.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah.  Rondo is the problem.

    Makes sense.

    I mean the starting sf, sg and pf are not playing well, the Starting center has just been okay, the bench has been wildly inconsistent and the defense has been horrible.

    Starting PG is averagiing 16 points and 14 assists a game.

    Yep.  It's his fault.

    [/QUOTE]
     

    Sorry, SnakeOil, but the inital post does make sense.  Rondo does hold the ball a long time, make some critical stupid passes trying to be the hero rather than letting the ball move to everyone, and pays poor D.  Of these items, i can live with most of them as they are counter balanced by the things he does that are great.   The ONE that drives me crazy is his on-ball defense.  He lets him man blow by him, doesn't force him to his weak hand or to help, and doesn't fight over picks nor recover well.  It allows the other team's guards to break down our D and we're struggling because of it.  

    Rondo's pooor D is a MAJOR factor in our poor play and I'd venture to say its the biggest factor in our poor team Defense.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: The Elite PG is THE Problem

    In response to snakeoil123's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I mean the starting sf, sg and pf are not playing well, the Starting center has just been okay, the bench has been wildly inconsistent and the defense has been horrible.

    Starting PG is averagiing 16 points and 14 assists a game.

    ---------------

    Exactly. If you could comprehend my post...1). the sf, sg, pf and center are playing substandard because the floor leader is not getting them into a natural flow and helping make them better. 2). the D has been horible because Rondo lets his man drive in the lane uncontested. and 3). Stats mean nothing.  I repeat, its all about Rondo's lack of effective leadership, consistent play and poisonous on court and locker room chemistry.  



    [/QUOTE]

    Can you comprehend how bad this team with be if rondo went down with an injury?

    Are the other 14 guys so weak that Rondo is making all of them play bad? None of them are to blame it is just that Rondo is making them lazy?

    All right then.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not saying (and I bet most others are not saying) that everything Rondo does is wrong.  Nor am I saying that Rondo isn't monstrously valuable to this team.   He can save us at times with his tremendoes play - including guard rebounding.  But, the comments about him not playing well RIGHT NOW are true when you look at him holding the ball so he can get assists rather than moving the ball around and about his defense, especially.    His defense is the NUMBER ONE reason our bigs get out of position - having to help Rondo.   

    I love Rondo but I'd love him a LOT more if he fought to stay in front of his man rather than playing lazy and then trying to reach from behind.   Just 5 stops a game by our point guard changes the nature of every game we've been in!!!

     
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