The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Fields4's comment:

     

     

    They're facts, not a belief. Do you know the difference between the two? Cause I'm really thinking nobody does. If you don't like him, that's fine. I can understand that. But this kids credendials and what I've seen with my own 2 eyes speaks volumes over anything I've heard here. He's a top 10 PG, PERIOD. He may not be to some. But to the consensus, he is. Get over it. His play goes beyond 1 year. They had a 7 game winning streak after he went out. They also had a 7 game winning streak with him playing last season. Their record was only SLIGHTLY better with him out. That's not telling enough for me. The entire team sucked last season. The players/analysts themselves were fielding questions about this very subject. They all shot the notion down. If you watched interviews both pre & postgame, you would know this. They talked abut it quite a bit.

     


     

    +1!

    I don't understand why people are trying so hard to discredit a player and acting like their opinion is closer to the truth than any other's one. On the top of that they can't accept the real facts and distinguish it from the opinions.

     


    Rondo lost the last 8 games in a row that he played in as the starting PG up until he tore his ACL. He "lead" his team to a 20-23 record as their starting PG. How can a top-10 PG with 2 HOFers on his team be considered top 10 when his team plays so poorly with him starting, then BE BETTER over the next 38-games without such a valuable commodity? You are all insane if you don't see these facts as alarming. Your weak excuses about how other players improved and got healthy and tried harder is a bunch of BS. RONDO has a negative influence on his teammates and it is gonna be worse now that DOC, PP, and KG are gone. THE DENIAL is scary!!! Rondo is now coming back from an ACL tear. How is that going to help make him better? Rondo's problems aren't just physical. As we have also heard many many times from the same analysts, Rondo has some mental issues too. Its like rolling the dice with this kid and praying that he doesn't do the stupid shyt that he has done so often in the past, like putting his hands on an official for the 3rd time! Dude is only gonna feel more pressure and lose his mind faster with his boyz gone. When Brad calls him out, he's gonna go DIVA on the guy. Rondo has got to go or we will be very, very sorry for quite a long time. Worst case is that we wait to trade him at the deadline, best case is he's gone before I finish this post! 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fields4. Show Fields4's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to Fields4's comment:

     

     

    They're facts, not a belief. Do you know the difference between the two? Cause I'm really thinking nobody does. If you don't like him, that's fine. I can understand that. But this kids credendials and what I've seen with my own 2 eyes speaks volumes over anything I've heard here. He's a top 10 PG, PERIOD. He may not be to some. But to the consensus, he is. Get over it. His play goes beyond 1 year. They had a 7 game winning streak after he went out. They also had a 7 game winning streak with him playing last season. Their record was only SLIGHTLY better with him out. That's not telling enough for me. The entire team sucked last season. The players/analysts themselves were fielding questions about this very subject. They all shot the notion down. If you watched interviews both pre & postgame, you would know this. They talked abut it quite a bit.

     


     

    +1!

    I don't understand why people are trying so hard to discredit a player and acting like their opinion is closer to the truth than any other's one. On the top of that they can't accept the real facts and distinguish it from the opinions.

     


    Rondo lost the last 8 games in a row that he played in as the starting PG up until he tore his ACL. He "lead" his team to a 20-23 record as their starting PG. How can a top-10 PG with 2 HOFers on his team be considered top 10 when his team plays so poorly with him starting, then BE BETTER over the next 38-games without such a valuable commodity? You are all insane if you don't see these facts as alarming. Your weak excuses about how other players improved and got healthy and tried harder is a bunch of BS. RONDO has a negative influence on his teammates and it is gonna be worse now that DOC, PP, and KG are gone. THE DENIAL is scary!!! Rondo is now coming back from an ACL tear. How is that going to help make him better? Rondo's problems aren't just physical. As we have also heard many many times from the same analysts, Rondo has some mental issues too. I just don't get it!

     



    I agree that injury won't help him overall and i agree that he's got some mental issues. No question about that. All i'm saying that he's one of the best PGs in the game (that's the approximate topic of this thread), top 10 for sure. Maybe you have another point view, then you should propose a ranking criteria so all other posters would be able to discuss it.

    Last year's team wasn't very good, they were 20-23 with Rondo. Without Rondo they were 23-21. That's not a big difference. The performance of the team depends on many factors, not only their starting PG. The same PG led the team to Game 7 of 2012 ECF against eventual champion. Were they going to the Finals without Rondo?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hops29. Show hops29's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    Here are ACTUAL FACTS about Rajon Rondo not tainted by emotions:

    The Good

    -He is a 4 time All-Star. last year he was voted into the East starting lineup with the 9th highest # of votes in the NBA

    -He has averaged a double double in assists and points 3 years in a row.  The only other two PGs to have done this in the last 10 years: CP3 and Nash.

    -He led the league in triple doubles for the last two years.

    -Although he has been labeled a bad shooter he is consistently in the top of the league in FG % among other guards.

    -He was elected by the NBA to the All NBA 3rd team in 2012. And the NBA All Defensive team 4 times. 2 times on the 1st team 2 times on the 2nd team.

    -In 2012 he was the postseason leader in Assists, Assists per Game, and Triple Doubles leading the Celts to the ECFs losing game 7.

    - His adamant supporters include current and former teammates: KG, Dooling, Shaq, Sheed, Jeff Green, Bradley, Paul Pierce, Perk, Jason Collins, and Big Al.  As well as ex Celtics: Cousy, Tommy, Bird, Sam, Walter, Hondo, and JoJo White.

    The Bad

    -He hurt the celtics team play last year while vying for an assist record. There is no doubt he held the ball too long in the half court waiting for the easy assist. Even Rondo supporters must have seen this happening.

    -He at one point, according to an unnamed source, threw a bottle at a TV screen while arguing with coach Doc Rivers.

    -He has a hard time dealing with persieved bad calls and at least twice in the past has hurt his team in this way. 

    - He is a way below average free throw shooter.

    -His detractors include former teammate and ring chaser Ray Allen, and maybe former coach Doc Rivers.  Although publicly he has nothing but good things to say about Rajon it is obvious there were problems there.

    -He is currently Rehabbing from a partially torn ACL.

     

    The facts point to him being a very good if not great point guard with some maturity problems. He is capable of being the best on the floor any given night.  He has more supporters than detractors among his peers. Obviously considering the fans gave him the 9th most All-Star votes in the entire NBA last year he has sellable appeal, and those that believe him to be a below average PG are in the distinct Minority.

    If anyone wants to add more ACTUAL FACTS to the good or bad categories feel free.  If you are going to add more emotionally charged redderick or unsubstantiated claims just keep that garbage to yourself and let us move on with truthful discourse.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to hops29's comment:

     

    Here are ACTUAL FACTS about Rajon Rondo not tainted by emotions:

    The Good

    -He is a 4 time All-Star. last year he was voted into the East starting lineup with the 9th highest # of votes in the NBA

    -He has averaged a double double in assists and points 3 years in a row.  The only other two PGs to have done this in the last 10 years: CP3 and Nash.

    -He led the league in triple doubles for the last two years.

    -Although he has been labeled a bad shooter he is consistently in the top of the league in FG % among other guards.

    -He was elected by the NBA to the All NBA 3rd team in 2012. And the NBA All Defensive team 4 times. 2 times on the 1st team 2 times on the 2nd team.

    -In 2012 he was the postseason leader in Assists, Assists per Game, and Triple Doubles leading the Celts to the ECFs losing game 7.

    - His adamant supporters include current and former teammates: KG, Dooling, Shaq, Sheed, Jeff Green, Bradley, Paul Pierce, Perk, Jason Collins, and Big Al.  As well as ex Celtics: Cousy, Tommy, Bird, Sam, Walter, Hondo, and JoJo White.

    The Bad

    -He hurt the celtics team play last year while vying for an assist record. There is no doubt he held the ball too long in the half court waiting for the easy assist. Even Rondo supporters must have seen this happening.

    -He at one point, according to an unnamed source, threw a bottle at a TV screen while arguing with coach Doc Rivers.

    -He has a hard time dealing with persieved bad calls and at least twice in the past has hurt his team in this way. 

    - He is a way below average free throw shooter.

    -His detractors include former teammate and ring chaser Ray Allen, and maybe former coach Doc Rivers.  Although publicly he has nothing but good things to say about Rajon it is obvious there were problems there.

    -He is currently Rehabbing from a partially torn ACL.

     

    The facts point to him being a very good if not great point guard with some maturity problems. He is capable of being the best on the floor any given night.  He has more supporters than detractors among his peers. Obviously considering the fans gave him the 9th most All-Star votes in the entire NBA last year he has sellable appeal, and those that believe him to be a below average PG are in the distinct Minority.

    If anyone wants to add more ACTUAL FACTS to the good or bad categories feel free.  If you are going to add more emotionally charged redderick or unsubstantiated claims just keep that garbage to yourself and let us move on with truthful discourse.

     


    First, you forgot to mention a very telling and horribly convincing "BAD". Rondo was sent home after being essentially kicked off of TEAM USA. See, what this tells us is that when money does not tie the team to the player, then the team can show the truth and expose that a player is a problem by saying, "Get lost. We don't have to deal with your crazy shyt here."

    Also, you are neglecting to keep everything in persepctive when you identify those former and present NBA players and coaches whom you call Rondo's "ADAMANT SUPPORTERS".  The fact is that every single person you named here has direct ties to the Boston Celtics. They all realize that what they say about Rajon Rondo publicly will have an impact not only on Rondo's perceived market value, but also on the the Boston Celtics Organization. Even the few players who are active with other teams that you mention here, if smart, will always take the high road and keep dirty laundry out of the press. IT IS THE SMART THING TO DO IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN THE NBA AFTER YOUR PLAYING DAYS ARE OVER, especially if you have any desire to work with/for the Boston Celtics. The NBA, players and org execs, are a very close knit family and those who are known to keep family business out of the streets are rewarded with post playing career jobs. So please, if you are trying to give a fair picture, leave the specualtive supporters and ignorant fan base out of it. The fact is, because Rondo's behavior issues leak out so often despite the lock and key policy that the NBA asks for, we know that it has got to be so much worse that what we hear.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hops29. Show hops29's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to hops29's comment:

     

    Here are ACTUAL FACTS about Rajon Rondo not tainted by emotions:

    The Good

    -He is a 4 time All-Star. last year he was voted into the East starting lineup with the 9th highest # of votes in the NBA

    -He has averaged a double double in assists and points 3 years in a row.  The only other two PGs to have done this in the last 10 years: CP3 and Nash.

    -He led the league in triple doubles for the last two years.

    -Although he has been labeled a bad shooter he is consistently in the top of the league in FG % among other guards.

    -He was elected by the NBA to the All NBA 3rd team in 2012. And the NBA All Defensive team 4 times. 2 times on the 1st team 2 times on the 2nd team.

    -In 2012 he was the postseason leader in Assists, Assists per Game, and Triple Doubles leading the Celts to the ECFs losing game 7.

    - His adamant supporters include current and former teammates: KG, Dooling, Shaq, Sheed, Jeff Green, Bradley, Paul Pierce, Perk, Jason Collins, and Big Al.  As well as ex Celtics: Cousy, Tommy, Bird, Sam, Walter, Hondo, and JoJo White.

    The Bad

    -He hurt the celtics team play last year while vying for an assist record. There is no doubt he held the ball too long in the half court waiting for the easy assist. Even Rondo supporters must have seen this happening.

    -He at one point, according to an unnamed source, threw a bottle at a TV screen while arguing with coach Doc Rivers.

    -He has a hard time dealing with persieved bad calls and at least twice in the past has hurt his team in this way. 

    - He is a way below average free throw shooter.

    -His detractors include former teammate and ring chaser Ray Allen, and maybe former coach Doc Rivers.  Although publicly he has nothing but good things to say about Rajon it is obvious there were problems there.

    -He is currently Rehabbing from a partially torn ACL.

     

    The facts point to him being a very good if not great point guard with some maturity problems. He is capable of being the best on the floor any given night.  He has more supporters than detractors among his peers. Obviously considering the fans gave him the 9th most All-Star votes in the entire NBA last year he has sellable appeal, and those that believe him to be a below average PG are in the distinct Minority.

    If anyone wants to add more ACTUAL FACTS to the good or bad categories feel free.  If you are going to add more emotionally charged redderick or unsubstantiated claims just keep that garbage to yourself and let us move on with truthful discourse.

     


    First, you forgot a very telling and horribly convincing "BAD". Rondo was sent home after being essentially kicked off of TEAM USA. See, what this tells us is that when money does not tie the team to the player, then the team can show the truth and expose that a player is a problem by saying, "Get lost. We don't have to deal with your crazy shyt here."

     

    Also, you are neglecting to keep everything in persepctive when you identify those former and present NBA players and coaches who you call "ADAMANT SUPPORTERS".  The fact is that every single person you named here has direct ties to the Boston Celtics. They all realize that what they say about Rajon Rondo publicly will have an impact both on Rondo's perceived market value, but also on the the Boston Celtics Organization. Even the few players who are active with other teams that you mention here, if smart, will always take the high road and keep dirty laundry out of the press. IT IS THE SMART THING TO DO IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN THE NBA AFTER YOUR PLAIYING DAYS ARE OVER. The NBA, players and org execs, are a very close knot family and only those who keep family business out fo the streets are rewarded with post playing careers. So please, if you are trying to give a fair picture, leave the specualtive supporters and ignorant fan base out of it.



    Thanks for the "bad" addition. You are right he wasn't selected to team USA.  The official statement was that they felt Westbrook was the better shooter of the two. 

    However, the people I've included as adamant supporters have all been quoted as saying they have or would have enjoyed playing with Rondo. Almost to the man they have said he is a special talent.  You are formulating your own opinion on why they have said these things which is purely speculative.  There are plenty of guys that still work directly with the NBA in the media or a front office that have no qualms about saying what they feel, (Bird, Cousy, Shaquille, Barkley, Jordan ect.). None of these guys pull any punches when it comes to their player evaluations.  Hell remember how Ainge killed the Celtics as a broadcaster, you know what it got him?  A FRONT OFFICE JOB!

    So your argument here is not only personal unsubstantiated spin, but also WRONG.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to hops29's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to hops29's comment:

     

    Here are ACTUAL FACTS about Rajon Rondo not tainted by emotions:

    The Good

    -He is a 4 time All-Star. last year he was voted into the East starting lineup with the 9th highest # of votes in the NBA

    -He has averaged a double double in assists and points 3 years in a row.  The only other two PGs to have done this in the last 10 years: CP3 and Nash.

    -He led the league in triple doubles for the last two years.

    -Although he has been labeled a bad shooter he is consistently in the top of the league in FG % among other guards.

    -He was elected by the NBA to the All NBA 3rd team in 2012. And the NBA All Defensive team 4 times. 2 times on the 1st team 2 times on the 2nd team.

    -In 2012 he was the postseason leader in Assists, Assists per Game, and Triple Doubles leading the Celts to the ECFs losing game 7.

    - His adamant supporters include current and former teammates: KG, Dooling, Shaq, Sheed, Jeff Green, Bradley, Paul Pierce, Perk, Jason Collins, and Big Al.  As well as ex Celtics: Cousy, Tommy, Bird, Sam, Walter, Hondo, and JoJo White.

    The Bad

    -He hurt the celtics team play last year while vying for an assist record. There is no doubt he held the ball too long in the half court waiting for the easy assist. Even Rondo supporters must have seen this happening.

    -He at one point, according to an unnamed source, threw a bottle at a TV screen while arguing with coach Doc Rivers.

    -He has a hard time dealing with persieved bad calls and at least twice in the past has hurt his team in this way. 

    - He is a way below average free throw shooter.

    -His detractors include former teammate and ring chaser Ray Allen, and maybe former coach Doc Rivers.  Although publicly he has nothing but good things to say about Rajon it is obvious there were problems there.

    -He is currently Rehabbing from a partially torn ACL.

     

    The facts point to him being a very good if not great point guard with some maturity problems. He is capable of being the best on the floor any given night.  He has more supporters than detractors among his peers. Obviously considering the fans gave him the 9th most All-Star votes in the entire NBA last year he has sellable appeal, and those that believe him to be a below average PG are in the distinct Minority.

    If anyone wants to add more ACTUAL FACTS to the good or bad categories feel free.  If you are going to add more emotionally charged redderick or unsubstantiated claims just keep that garbage to yourself and let us move on with truthful discourse.

     


    First, you forgot a very telling and horribly convincing "BAD". Rondo was sent home after being essentially kicked off of TEAM USA. See, what this tells us is that when money does not tie the team to the player, then the team can show the truth and expose that a player is a problem by saying, "Get lost. We don't have to deal with your crazy shyt here."

     

    Also, you are neglecting to keep everything in persepctive when you identify those former and present NBA players and coaches who you call "ADAMANT SUPPORTERS".  The fact is that every single person you named here has direct ties to the Boston Celtics. They all realize that what they say about Rajon Rondo publicly will have an impact both on Rondo's perceived market value, but also on the the Boston Celtics Organization. Even the few players who are active with other teams that you mention here, if smart, will always take the high road and keep dirty laundry out of the press. IT IS THE SMART THING TO DO IF YOU WANT TO STAY IN THE NBA AFTER YOUR PLAIYING DAYS ARE OVER. The NBA, players and org execs, are a very close knot family and only those who keep family business out fo the streets are rewarded with post playing careers. So please, if you are trying to give a fair picture, leave the specualtive supporters and ignorant fan base out of it.

     

     



    Thanks for the "bad" addition. You are right he wasn't selected to team USA.  The official statement was that they felt Westbrook was the better shooter of the two. 

     

     

    However, the people I've included as adamant supporters have all been quoted as saying they have or would have enjoyed playing with Rondo. Almost to the man they have said he is a special talent.  You are formulating your own opinion on why they have said these things which is purely speculative.  There are plenty of guys that still work directly with the NBA in the media or a front office that have no qualms about saying what they feel, (Bird, Cousy, Shaquille, Barkley, Jordan ect.). None of these guys pull any punches when it comes to their player evaluations.  Hell remember how Ainge killed the Celtics as a broadcaster, you know what it got him?  A FRONT OFFICE JOB!

    So your argument here is not only personal unsubstantiated spin, but also WRONG.

     


    There are exceptions to everything. The problem here is that you are obviously a HUGE Rondo supporter trying to sell your rhetoric off as unbiased, but when challenged, you make biased generalizations that are also WRONG. What I am saying can be wrong on a few examples, but what you are saying here is WRONG in many many more examples. Therefore, I am speaking closer to the turth than you are. Thats how it works, my friend.........The media is the media......OH, and having been a professional athlete during a period of my life gives me a little more persepctive on what really goes on behind the veil vs. your slanted, fan's outside looking in perspective. Sorry, but the truth is the truth. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....

     


    Karl, ya know, the frustrating thing about this is that the eveidence against Rondo is so clear and one sided. It makes you wonder how these guys are so blind. I would've dropped this long ago if not for seeing how much help they all need in seeing the truth for their own good as Boston Celtics fans! Oh well, I guess my co-dependant personality is gonna have to be satisfied elsewhere. These guys just don't want to be helped to see the truth of the matter. I tried to love Rondo from the beginning and did for a couple of years, but after watching the negative impact with my own eyes, I was sick of his act in less than 3-seasons and knew he would end up hurting the Team's overall success in the long term, which he absolutely has. Ahhhhhhh.....the agony.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....

     


    Karl, ya know, the frustrating thing about this is that the eveidence against Rondo is so clear and one sided. It makes you wonder how these guys are so blind. I would've dropped this long ago if not for seeing how much help they all need in seeing the truth for their own good as Boston Celtics fans! Oh well, I guess my co-dependant personality is gonna have to be satisfied elsewhere. These guys just don't want to be helped to see the truth of the matter. I tried to love Rondo from the beginning and did for a couple of years, but after watching the negative impact with my own eyes, I was sick of his act in less than 3-seasons and knew he would end up hurting the Team's overall success in the long term, which he absolutely has. Ahhhhhhh.....the agony.

     



    +1, only reversed. Winning 5 more games without Rondo tells it all.... wow. lol

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

    In response to Fields4's comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

    Here's a fact for you to explain. How does a team remove one of the best PGs in the game from its lineup, a topic of MVP consideration, a record setter....and instantly become a much better team?

    Did that happen when KG went down? How about when Dirk went down or Kobe?? When DH went to the Lakers did the Magic become a much better team? When Rose went down, did the Bulls do 

     

    God, I just dont get why you all are so committed to believing what you do about Romdo. What the hell have you been watching and hearing the last year? Dude is a Kook. Rondo isnt even a top 10 PH now and is presently on an 8-game losing streak, and he's on ACL rehab. Sounds pretty bad if you ask any normal person. 

     

     

     


    They're facts, not a belief. Do you know the difference between the two? Cause I'm really thinking nobody does. If you don't like him, that's fine. I can understand that. But this kids credendials and what I've seen with my own 2 eyes speaks volumes over anything I've heard here. He's a top 10 PG, PERIOD. He may not be to some. But to the consensus, he is. Get over it. His play goes beyond 1 year. They had a 7 game winning streak after he went out. They also had a 7 game winning streak with him playing last season. Their record was only SLIGHTLY better with him out. That's not telling enough for me. The entire team sucked last season. The players/analysts themselves were fielding questions about this very subject. They all shot the notion down. If you watched interviews both pre & postgame, you would know this. They talked abut it quite a bit.

     

     

     



    Is there some reason a TV commentator is your gold standard for opinions? Why do you even bother posting anything other than copy n pastes of TV commentators?

     

     

    The real issue regarding Rondo is from people who have watched the majority of the games hes played and formed their own opinion, without the assistance of a TV commentator. Some of these opinions are much more negative then others.... yet here you are shooting them down because TV commentators disagree.

    Rondo is not one of the premiere PGs in the NBA imo. In fact, its proven last season the team does better without him.... just think, the starting PG goes down, no other decent PG on the team to replace him...and the team improved markedly instantly....later the starting PF goes out....still the team finsihes with a better record. There are no other examples in the NBA I can recall where such an occurance took place. ITs noteworthy.

    Now go ahead and tell me how Tim Legler said blah blah blah...

     

     

    - Dr. BB's response:

    Of course you failed to mention that I said "players/analysts". But hey, what would the players know about their own teammate that our own Karllost wouldn't know. And those analysts/TV commentators that you referred to... Mostly all former pro players or coaches as well... What could they possibly know that Karllost doesn't.

    You're acting very immature with your exagerations dude. I've tried to be nothing but polite with my arguements, and you're acting like an ex-wife.


     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrBoogiebone. Show DrBoogiebone's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to hops29's comment:

     

    Here are ACTUAL FACTS about Rajon Rondo not tainted by emotions:

    The Good

    -He is a 4 time All-Star. last year he was voted into the East starting lineup with the 9th highest # of votes in the NBA

    -He has averaged a double double in assists and points 3 years in a row.  The only other two PGs to have done this in the last 10 years: CP3 and Nash.

    -He led the league in triple doubles for the last two years.

    -Although he has been labeled a bad shooter he is consistently in the top of the league in FG % among other guards.

    -He was elected by the NBA to the All NBA 3rd team in 2012. And the NBA All Defensive team 4 times. 2 times on the 1st team 2 times on the 2nd team.

    -In 2012 he was the postseason leader in Assists, Assists per Game, and Triple Doubles leading the Celts to the ECFs losing game 7.

    - His adamant supporters include current and former teammates: KG, Dooling, Shaq, Sheed, Jeff Green, Bradley, Paul Pierce, Perk, Jason Collins, and Big Al.  As well as ex Celtics: Cousy, Tommy, Bird, Sam, Walter, Hondo, and JoJo White.

    The Bad

    -He hurt the celtics team play last year while vying for an assist record. There is no doubt he held the ball too long in the half court waiting for the easy assist. Even Rondo supporters must have seen this happening.

    -He at one point, according to an unnamed source, threw a bottle at a TV screen while arguing with coach Doc Rivers.

    -He has a hard time dealing with persieved bad calls and at least twice in the past has hurt his team in this way. 

    - He is a way below average free throw shooter.

    -His detractors include former teammate and ring chaser Ray Allen, and maybe former coach Doc Rivers.  Although publicly he has nothing but good things to say about Rajon it is obvious there were problems there.

    -He is currently Rehabbing from a partially torn ACL.

     

    The facts point to him being a very good if not great point guard with some maturity problems. He is capable of being the best on the floor any given night.  He has more supporters than detractors among his peers. Obviously considering the fans gave him the 9th most All-Star votes in the entire NBA last year he has sellable appeal, and those that believe him to be a below average PG are in the distinct Minority.

    If anyone wants to add more ACTUAL FACTS to the good or bad categories feel free.  If you are going to add more emotionally charged redderick or unsubstantiated claims just keep that garbage to yourself and let us move on with truthful discourse.

     



    Wonderful synopsis hops29

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:


    Is there some reason a TV commentator is your gold standard for opinions? Why do you even bother posting anything other than copy n pastes of TV commentators?

     The real issue regarding Rondo is from people who have watched the majority of the games hes played and formed their own opinion, without the assistance of a TV commentator. Some of these opinions are much more negative then others.... yet here you are shooting them down because TV commentators disagree.

    Rondo is not one of the premiere PGs in the NBA imo. In fact, its proven last season the team does better without him.... just think, the starting PG goes down, no other decent PG on the team to replace him...and the team improved markedly instantly....later the starting PF goes out....still the team finsihes with a better record. There are no other examples in the NBA I can recall where such an occurance took place. ITs noteworthy.

    Now go ahead and tell me how Tim Legler said blah blah blah...

     

     

    - Dr. BB's response:

    Of course you failed to mention that I said "players/analysts". But hey, what would the players know about their own teammate that our own Karllost wouldn't know. And those analysts/TV commentators that you referred to... Mostly all former pro players or coaches as well... What could they possibly know that Karllost doesn't.

    You're acting very immature with your exagerations dude. I've tried to be nothing but polite with my arguements, and you're acting like an ex-wife.
    _____________________________________________________________________________

     
    Like I suggested yesterday, just copy n paste what "players/analysts" opinions are since it's the only basis for what you're pawning off as your own opinion.  You really must be very naive to believe everyone on TV shoots from the hip and expresses their true beliefs about other industry types publicly.

     How many times have you heard those same "players/analysts" beat down David Stern or other players?? Just doesnt happen very often or to too many players... Theres a huge conflict of interest and risk involved if they did.Of course, this all flies over your head

    Wouldnt expect you to understand that because youre in a fantasy world where it rains chocolate bunnies and gummy bears.. and Rondo is your idol regardless of facts and what an educated eye observes... I suppose Id feel the same way if someone said similar negative things about Larry, I probably couldnt see straight, would be so biased and would go into attack mode... just like you groupies do when you bite your pillows at night thinking of Rondo being criticized... 

    Some players earned their status as basketball idols and legends, others are  annointed it by their dopey coach or media nitwits for the sake of marketing, wishful thinking and fear if they dont coddle a diva totally his tantrums & selfishness would wreck the team.. Well, it backfired anyway but the collateral damage has been done...witness starry-eyed fans such as yourself

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....

     


    Karl, ya know, the frustrating thing about this is that the eveidence against Rondo is so clear and one sided. It makes you wonder how these guys are so blind. I would've dropped this long ago if not for seeing how much help they all need in seeing the truth for their own good as Boston Celtics fans! Oh well, I guess my co-dependant personality is gonna have to be satisfied elsewhere. These guys just don't want to be helped to see the truth of the matter. I tried to love Rondo from the beginning and did for a couple of years, but after watching the negative impact with my own eyes, I was sick of his act in less than 3-seasons and knew he would end up hurting the Team's overall success in the long term, which he absolutely has. Ahhhhhhh.....the agony.

     

     

     



    +1, only reversed. Winning 5 more games without Rondo tells it all.... wow. lol

     

     

     


    See, that is the root of the ignorance. You miss the fact that they won not just "Five more games without Rondo", THEY WON 21 games without their supposed "BEST PLAYER" of their last 38 reg season games for a 21-17 record WITHOUT HIM. And made the playoffs which was a distant dream before he got injured. So the point is HOW DOES THIS SHOW THAT HE's SO VALUABLE??? IT PROVES HE's NOT. Damn you guys are so elementary in your thinking. 

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    In response to DrBoogiebone's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....

     


    Karl, ya know, the frustrating thing about this is that the eveidence against Rondo is so clear and one sided. It makes you wonder how these guys are so blind. I would've dropped this long ago if not for seeing how much help they all need in seeing the truth for their own good as Boston Celtics fans! Oh well, I guess my co-dependant personality is gonna have to be satisfied elsewhere. These guys just don't want to be helped to see the truth of the matter. I tried to love Rondo from the beginning and did for a couple of years, but after watching the negative impact with my own eyes, I was sick of his act in less than 3-seasons and knew he would end up hurting the Team's overall success in the long term, which he absolutely has. Ahhhhhhh.....the agony.

     

     

     



    +1, only reversed. Winning 5 more games without Rondo tells it all.... wow. lol

     

     

     


    See, that is the root of the ignorance. You miss the fact that they won not just "Five more games" without Rondo, THEY WON 21 games without their supposed "BEST PLAYER" of their last 38 reg season games for a 21-17 record WITHOUT HIM. And made the playoffs which was a distant dream before he got injured. So the point is HOW DOES THIS SHOW THAT HE's SO VALUABLE??? IT PROVES HE's NOT. Damn you guys are so elementary in your thinking. 

     



    I just think they just dont wanna take down their Fat Heads off their ceilings

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    Right on cue!

    RallyC is being negative about Rondo so Karl is now his new best friend.

    HAHAHA

     



    Fierce, how is the truth negative? I just don't choose to bury my head in the sand about Rajon like so many here do. Do you even think before you write? Come on man.......explain where the negativity is in what I am saying. It is the truth.

     

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Only facts that count are the team did better without the diva. What else is more important than that?  Sure, you can use the argument they didnt do all that much better but remember one thing..... The Rondo team had Rondo and Sully on it...the non Rondo team didnt...and they still played better ball and winning ball over a long stretch of games..

    Thats saying plenty!!

    Everyone keeps bringing up the ECFs vs the Heat,,, so boring. Rondo had one spectacualr stat game and we lost it!!  Look at the rest of his stats which I have posted before. The better his stats the more likely we lost the game. Whats that tell you??

    Leading the C's to the ECFs doesnt cut it. We won a title with Rondo as starting PG,,,but the truth is ROndo was the least important starter on that team by a mile... spending lots of meaningful minutes on the bench during the finals. But he was there, contributed and has a ring, like 100's of others. He didnt lead the team to the title and wasnt even one of the leaders...

    Fawn over the kid all you want. Bottom line he hasnt fetched any attractive trade offers because behind closed doors, GMs really dont value him like you groupies do. I dont expect you to understand or agree, thats the nature of groupies, blind love....




    Did better? Actually this season was the first time the cs lost in the 1st round in the kg era. And they were 1 game over 500 in the rgular season too.   So in fact this was the worst overall  season in the kg era. What a coincedence the year rondo's  out.

    We had one 10 game strecth right when rondo got hurt (think we went 9-1) cuz we had a weak schedule, plus we had just got ab back too. Those 2 factors made fans believe that we were actually better off without our all star pg. We saw how much better we were when we struggled to even score 80 ppg against a weak defensive team in the  knicks.

    No matter how anyone feels about rondo , prior to his injury he was a top 5 pg, after injury he is still a top 10 pg. Just 2 years ago he was 8TH IN MVP VOTING. MVP!!! Magic Johnson the greatest pg of all time has said on many occasions rondo is the best pg in the league as well.

     

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    John Wall got a max contract and he hasn't even made a single All-Star appearance.

    Only an idiot would think Rondo would NOT get a max contract.

    Guess an idiot is also synonymous to someone who's lost.

     


    Media is media and and their objective is to manipulate the simpletons of the fan base like you. You Fierce are an undeniable idiot. Don't you notice that most of what  that you write is about You defending You? There is no reason to argure the fact that you are absolutely a bonifide buffoon. You Go worship NBA Network now. They love easy scores like you. They prey on guys like you who sit with their sports "entertainment" network on and wait for "the experts" to feed their manipualtive info to you so that you can then run to BDC and post the info as if it is GOD'S WORD or your own. Don't you undersatnd what they are doing to your smaller than average "human" brain? They are giving you propoganda and half truths and are trying to give you what you want to hear in order to keep you liking/respecting their opinions SO THAT YOU'LL WANT TO WATCH THEM. Truth is, they know very little more, if any, than we do. It comes down to critical thinking and problem solving on an individual basis. I will stop right there because I don't want you to blow an artery in your peanut trying to understand what I say here. Go Fierce, though your brain size may be smaller, your gullibility quotient is through the damn roof. The TV awaits you.......don't forget the popcorn!

     

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: The Great Point Guard (Rondo) Debate

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to RallyC's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Media is media and and their objective is to manipulate the simpletons of the fan base like you. You Fierce are an undeniable idiot. Don't you notice that most of what  that you write is about You defending You? There is no reason to argure the fact that you are absolutely a bonifide buffoon. You Go worship NBA Network now. They love easy scores like you. They prey on a guy like you who sit with their sports "entertainment" network on and wait for them to feed their manipualtive info to you so that you can then run to BDC and post the info as if it is your own. Don't you undersatnd what they are doing to your smaller than average "human" brain? They are giving you propoganda and half truths and are trying to give you what you want to hear in order to keep you liking/respecting their opinions SO THAT YOU'LL WANT TO WATCH THEM. Truth is, they know very little more, if any, than we do. It comes down to critical thinking and problem solving on an individual basis. I will stop right there because I don't want you to blow an artery in your peanut trying to understand what I say here. Go Fierce, though your brain size may be smaller, your gullibility quotient is through the damn roof. The TV awaits you.......don't forget the popcorn!

     

     

     

     


    Like I said, your opinion is just an opinion, it's not a fact.

    You call me an idiot and a buffon for stating facts?

    Let me tell you this, if John Wall gets the max then Rondo gets the max.

    And Rondo is clearly a top 10 PG in the NBA today.

     

    Why should we believe guys like you when you're a nobody.

    Maybe you're living in a fantasy world, but in the real world the guys from ESPN and NBA TV have more credibility than you and Karl. And that's a fact!

     

    [/QUOTE

    Ok, you asked for it FIERCE, here is a dose of common sense for ya:

    As of this very moment, Rajon Rondo is 20-23 and on an 8-game losing streak as the starting PG of the Boston Celtics since the beginning of the most recent NBA season. Rajon Rondo's losing streak only ended due to his ACL injury which he is presently rehabbing from. Coincidentally the Boston Celtics improved immediately and went on to win 7-in a row, 21 out of the next 38 and get into the play-offs despite not having a supposed top ten PG. That makes no sense! Rajon Rondo has lost 3-HOF starters from the team in the last year+. Rajon Rondo IS NOT PRESENTLY a top ten PG in the NBA based on his most recent clear inability to lead his team to success and then tearing his ACL. As a matter of fact, at this very moment, I would find it hard to imagine that he is realistically able to play basketball. As such, he isn't even in the top 30-NBA PGs. Until Rondo comes back and proves he can lead a team to winning without a handful of HOFers and be successful in excelling on defense, HE CANNOT EVEN COME CLOSE TO THE TOP 10. Now go ahead make all of the excuses you want. THESE ARE ALL FACTS. Go ahead Fierce, make yourself look like a fool by trying to justify your statements, or any of your favorite NBA TV analysts or "insiders" who claim that RR IS A TOP 10 PG RIGHT NOW. How can anyone in this world make that claim and be looked at seriously???.....Go for it baby! You can"t change the facts and the truth about the state of the situation. You just don't get it. This is the real world and you can't look past his inability to even play the game RIGHT NOW and there is no guarantee that he ever will be the same or even play again. And please, don't say "The fans voted him an allstar." Talk about TODAY, right now, and don't dismiss recent history as you seem to want to do. Lastly, if you use a single "IF" in your response, Then you will be proving that as of "today" as you clearly insist, that Rondo is not "today" what you claim and will be wasting everyone's time with a response, thats if you have the nerve to try to respond.........Rondos value today is not one of a top ten PG PERIOD.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     

Share