The Greatest

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    The Greatest

    This is for all you youngsters who think basketball started with Magic and Larry, or Michael, or Kobe, or Lebron.


    There will never be another like him -- and when someone else gets to eight or nine championships, then we can talk.  :-)


    http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/15/bill-russell-boston-celtics-ring-leader-si-60-frank-deford" rel="nofollow">http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/15/bill-russell-boston-celtics-ring-leader-si-60-frank-deford


     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Agreed.

    If he were playing today he might be a power forward and not a center but he would still dominate.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Absolutely...Bill Russell was the G.O.A.T...he revolutionized the modern game making D and rim protection THE thing to determining basketball success...his rebounding and outlet passing made fast break basketball the most copied form of the game during the decades his shadow shown over the NBA...he would have destroyed ANY offensive player in the playoffs, including Lebron and Kobe. Simply the best of all time.

    And we were so very fortunate to have him played here his entire career!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

     

     

    Bill Russell-----Super star for sure. Dominated his peers for sure. Best of his generation with Wilt and Oscar and West, I'll buy that.  But that's when pro basketball was of " D LEAGUE " quality when compared to the pro game since the late 70's to the present. My favorite Celt of all time on my favorite Celtic teams of all time. But that generation ended about 45 years ago and wow how the game ,and its players, have improved since then.

     

    dhs1950

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    guys like wilt and russell played over 40 minutes a game, if not OVER 45 minutes a game for years on end. 

    tough as nails.  and people talk about "conditioning" russ was in better shape than 90% or more of what's in the nba.  would adding 10 or 20 pounds to his frame with protein drinks and high tech workouts added anything to his game?  it's debatable.

    one thing is for sure- russell would have been the same dominator he was in the modern game that he was in the 60s.  players' collective mind set has gotten softer than a sneaker full of crap.  bird had basically the same mindset as russell but different position and skills.  how many in the modern game have the mindset of a russell / bird? 

    i'd say exactly none.  russ was the psychological assassin in addition to being a tremendous physical presence.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from zeitgeist49. Show zeitgeist49's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Bill Russell-----Super star for sure. Dominated his peers for sure. Best of his generation with Wilt and Oscar and West, I'll buy that.  But that's when pro basketball was of " D LEAGUE " quality when compared to the pro game since the late 70's to the present. My favorite Celt of all time on my favorite Celtic teams of all time. But that generation ended about 45 years ago and wow how the game ,and its players, have improved since then.

     

    dhs1950

    [/QUOTE]

    I strongly disagree with your contention that the NBA, prior to 1970, was D league basketball. Russ, Chamberlain, West and Oscar clearly would be superstars today. Russ was a great athlete who also ran the high hurdles. And if he could guard Chamberlain, he could certainly play center today, despite being 6' 9". His athleticism and timing more than compensated for his lack of height.   You say that back in the day, it was D league. Well consider this : Who now plays defense in this league ? The annual defensive player of the league now doesn't even compare to players like Russ and Chamberlain. In today's era of  ESPN's  obsession with offensive stats, the game has changed for the worse. All fans want to see now are spectacular dunks. And the isolation play from players like Jordan and Kobe has diminished the quality of the game. That's why it was truly refreshing to see a team like the Spurs win the championship with good old fashioned team play.   Russ IMO was the greatest team player in NBA history and thus the best player ever.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Its always difficult to compare players from different generations. Makes more sense to view them against their peers during their day. Its like asking if Babe Ruth could hit as many homers against todays pitching.

    Everyone seems to think that as time goes by, the level of play & athlete improves. I disagree. Certainly the athleticism, on average, has shot off the charts. Speed, quickness, jumping ability etc.. However, the feel for the game, the anticipation, the team concept has gone out the window imo. The concept of the game has been set back.

    Just look at last nights USA vs Brazil game. Did James Harden ever see a shot he didnt love, even if it wasnt there? Did Steph Curry force shots & drives in his attempt to appear spectacular? Unfortunately, the players today are more athletes, highlight players than basketball players from years before. The role player is also forgotten generally speaking.

    We all saw showtime & even tho most here rooted for the Lakers to lose, it was pretty cool what they were doing. Maybe the best fast break team of all time.... but making a run for that crown was the Celtic teams of the 70's with Cowens, Silas, Hondo, JoJo et al...what a great, great fast break team most forget about.

    Aside from the capsuled finals from the Spurs this year, where do we see such ball?

    Russ was a player that dominated the team game. Thats what most are missing. It wasnt stats or dunks, it was how he improved his team, whatever it took. Im not a proponent of bringing up rings as the true measure of greatness because its never one player who wins them.. However, as the clear leader & star & glue for such a sick, overwhelming number of 11 championships11 rings, it cant be overlooked....hes the GOAT

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to Karllost's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Its always difficult to compare players from different generations. Makes more sense to view them against their peers during their day. Its like asking if Babe Ruth could hit as many homers against todays pitching.


     


     


     


    Russell was the greatest player in the history of team sports in my opinion....the fact that he could play Wilt one on one says it all....basketball is better nowadays..?  ....sorry, I don't agree....look at today's centers.....there are only a handful of them....back in the 60's & 70's almost every good/great team had one...Russell, Chamberlain, Thurmond, Bellamy, Reed, Unseld to name a few from the 60's......look into the 70's....Jabbar, Gilmore, Cowens, Lanier......the list goes on into the 80's....this board is currently full of posts looking for "our next franchise center"....that's all based on the "old NBA"....today's athletes are bigger and faster...workout regimens, weight training, personal trainers, nutrition & supplements (PED's?) have had quite an impact on today's game....don't forget about all of the "old guys" like Baylor and West, "the Big O". Elvin Hayes, John Havlicek....these guys would still be stars in today's game

    THE DUKE

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    To offer a valid opinion about a players record it is necessary to consider the quality of the opposition he played against. The next 2 links will compare Russ in his 2nd year( Russ's 1st year was a short season) vs Olajuwon in his 2nd year.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height

             dhs1950

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:


    To offer a valid opinion about a players record it is necessary to consider the quality of the opposition he played against. The next 2 links will compare Russ in his 2nd year( Russ's 1st year was a short season) vs Olajuwon in his 2nd year.


      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height


             dhs1950



    Why are the links not coming through on these threads...?


    THE DUKE

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height ;

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    It's called evolution.

    Football, baseball, track, and basketball all have better "players" than in the earlier days.

    Sports are worldwide now, scouting is better, training is better, and, of course, there is the money!

    Russ also didn't practice, or work out in the off-season.  Russ didn't work on his offense, and rumor has it he has not taken a shot at a hoop since he retired.

    In my reading and research about the man, I've learned one thing - above all else, Russ was an extremely intelligent, if not prideful man.

    That having been said, given today's technology, training methods and money..............I would say Bill Russell would be even BETTER today (think of those low-top canvas shoes), and would play even longer than 13 years.  I'm not saying he'd win 11 in 13, but his teams would be competitive every year.......like Duncan.

    "Climb on my back, boys, and I'll take you home." - Cedric Maxwell

    "You show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." - Red Auerbach

    "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought, cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." - Hedley Lamarr

    If no Bynum injury, no Gasol trade - last word!!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=pts_per_mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height ;;

    [/QUOTE]

    Ignore this post. Having trouble posting my links

    dhs1950

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height


     


     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:


      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height


     


     


     


     


    dhs1950


     





     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dhs1950's comment:


    [QUOTE]

    yea, finally got the link up.

    Based on 1800 minutes played--Which represents about the top 5 players on a team. Height ranged from 6'8' and up. Here you have the big man competition that Russ faced in his 2nd year.

    Note the weights. from top to bottom.  220,235,215,215,230,234,205,198,210,185.

    Note the puny field goal percentages and that was when the lane was only 12 feet wide

    May as well have played with their off shooting hand in a sling. Like Cousy said in the 90's. 12 year olds playing in the playgrounds have a better handle than the players in his day.

    Physical play. Could have played in tuxedo's back in the days of no touch em ball.

    If you hate the Allstar game style of shooting as soon as you get within 20 ft or so of the basket, then those early years would not have been for you.

    As to the quickness of the game. All you need to know is that in 1957-58,  91.5% of the players that were 6'7" or shorter were white Americans,  in 1985-86 15.5% white Americans and in 2013-14  5.5% white Americans.

    My next link will present the big man numbers for 1985-86 (Olajuwons 2nd year)

    dhs1950

     

     

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height" rel="nofollow">http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1958&year_max=1958&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    dhs1950

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

     

      And here is the link for the 1985-86 season.

    16' lane.

    Note the great shooting percentages

    23.5 white as blacks dominate the game

    dhs1950

     

     http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1986&year_max=1986&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    White male...6-9, 230.....starting NBA center....resume:

    Rookie of the Year

    League MVP

    8 time All Star

    Hall of Fame

    Dave Cowens of the Boston Celtics

    Enough about the short, slow, non-athletic white guys.....there have been greats all through league history.....in every single decade....or is Jerry West just another of "those guys"...?

     



    THE DUKE

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Of course their have been great white players down through the years. But since the late 70's they have become the exception rather than the rule. Just like in track and in professional football where speed ,quickness and agility are the requirements its become overwhelming Black domination.  

    dhs1950

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Its all subjective conjecture comparing athletes from different eras.  Generally, athletes are bigger, stronger, faster and fundamentally better today given diet, exercise, new training techniques, etc.

    Despite having a great supporting cast, Fact remains that Russell was one of the best TEAM players of all time, but not the best individual player or even the best center by any stretch of the imagination.  I've witnessed many Wilt vs Russell match-ups and Wilt generally dominated on both ends of the court, but the Celtics usually would win the game.  Jabbar, Shaq and others would have scored on Russell at will IMO.  

    At 6'9" 230ish Russell would be too small to adequately defend night in and night out against today's NBA big men.  His speed and athleticism which set him apart would be the norm in today's NBA.  He never had any semblance of an outside shot so he would be ineffective playing the PF position as well.    

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=81&height_max=91&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp&c1comp=gt&c1val=1800&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=height

    Where have the centers gone?   At 6'9" and taller many have moved outside to take advantage of their great ball handling and outside shooting skills in a game where offensive strategies have changed over the years. Send them back to the 50's and 60's and they would totality dominate at forward or center.

    Link for 2013-14 players above

    dhs1950

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its all subjective conjecture comparing athletes from different eras.  Generally, athletes are bigger, stronger, faster and fundamentally better today given diet, exercise, new training techniques, etc.

    Despite having a great supporting cast, Fact remains that Russell was one of the best TEAM players of all time, but not the best individual player or even the best center by any stretch of the imagination.  I've witnessed many Wilt vs Russell match-ups and Wilt generally dominated on both ends of the court, but the Celtics usually would win the game.  Jabbar, Shaq and others would have scored on Russell at will IMO.  

    At 6'9" 230ish Russell would be too small to adequately defend night in and night out against today's NBA big men.  His speed and athleticism which set him apart would be the norm in today's NBA.  He never had any semblance of an outside shot so he would be ineffective playing the PF position as well.    

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Rings are the crutch that fans use to level the playing field when discussing the merits between two players. It doesn't matter to them that the rings reflect a team honor. Such is the case with Russell. While wilt was playing with 2 or 3 Hall Of famers Russell was joined by 5-7 HOF players and a HOF coach. Surprise,surprise. The CELTICS won most of the time.

    dhs1950

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    In response to dhs1950's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Eldunker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its all subjective conjecture comparing athletes from different eras.  Generally, athletes are bigger, stronger, faster and fundamentally better today given diet, exercise, new training techniques, etc.

    Despite having a great supporting cast, Fact remains that Russell was one of the best TEAM players of all time, but not the best individual player or even the best center by any stretch of the imagination.  I've witnessed many Wilt vs Russell match-ups and Wilt generally dominated on both ends of the court, but the Celtics usually would win the game.  Jabbar, Shaq and others would have scored on Russell at will IMO.  

    At 6'9" 230ish Russell would be too small to adequately defend night in and night out against today's NBA big men.  His speed and athleticism which set him apart would be the norm in today's NBA.  He never had any semblance of an outside shot so he would be ineffective playing the PF position as well.    

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Rings are the crutch that fans use to level the playing field when discussing the merits between two players. It doesn't matter to them that the rings reflect a team honor. Such is the case with Russell. While wilt was playing with 2 or 3 Hall Of famers Russell was joined by 5-7 HOF players and a HOF coach. Surprise,surprise. The CELTICS won most of the time.

    dhs1950

    [/QUOTE]

    And why do you think Russell had 5 to 7 HOF players????  Because he helped MAKE them hall of famers.   You think Tommy or Havlicek or those players would have seen the ball playing with Russ?   If they don't see the ball, would they be HOF players?   Would they have all been motivated to play defense and would they have the fast break going?   Russell and Red revolutionized the game.   Russ won championships at USF, Olympic Gold, and More NBA championships than anyone by a factor of 2.   

    Yes, players are faster and stronger today.  They have better sneakers and better basketballs.  But, if Russ grew up with them, he would be stronger and faster.   What you miss is that his understanding of the game, motivation for other players, ability to coach himself as a player coach, and general leadership would transcend different basketball eras.  That's the difference in Russ vs others.   

    Taking away Russ's dominance of his time and his being the greatest of all time is like saying Michael Jordan wouldn't be dominant if the league weren't expanding during his era (remember, Bird's Celtics were deeper, Magic's Lakers were deeper, the Pistons were deeper......and fortunately for Jordan - he played in a time when there was generally 1 and maybe 2 HOF stars on the team.   How did he fare against Magic, Larry, and Isaiah's teams?   He lost!  But, that doesn't mean Michael wasn't great.   He would dominate at any time.....and the same is true for Magic, Larry, Lebron, and Russell.   The difference is that without all that AAU ball, conditioning, training, etc - he STILL dominated and changed the game.

    Russell is the greatest of all time!!

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Russell played and dominated Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy, Zelmo Beatty...each one of these guys would be all stars in today's NBA, Chamberlain and Reed are HOF'rs...all but Beatty are bigger than most 5's playing today and just, if not more, athletic than any 5 playing today...


    No player in NBA history...and this is not even close folks...had the impact on the other teams play than William Fenton Russell. He altered the way every team played O...teams were TERRIFIED to drive the lane because they KNEW Russ would fly out of nowhere to block easy layups...forget it, Lebron on his best day times 10 couldn't come close to impacting the game the way Russ did.....hands down, Russ is the G.O.A.T. across all  time zones, eras, galaxies and dimensions.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dhs1950. Show dhs1950's posts

    Re: The Greatest

    Celtsfan4life

    I applaud you for the loyalty and respect you show toward Bill Russell. My all time favorite Celt. I have just a few points to make concerning some of your opinions.

    Heinsohn and Havlicek in the Hall without Russ. Why not? Both were 2 time college all-Americans and all league selections.

    Championships- College- on a team with 2 other future pros.   Olympics,- surrounded by the best.

     Basketball smarts.--- don't know just how many super stars are elected to the Hall based on the mental aspect of the game.

            You proclaim that Russell is the greatest of all time. Did you take into consideration the quality of the competition back in the early years?

    dhs1950

     
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