The joke of plus minus

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    The joke of plus minus

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    Agreed.

    Back in my day we used to tally up how many points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks you had VS. the guy you were guarding, that's how we determined if you were any good... now we just look at some obscure PER stat or some other BS.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mellymel3. Show mellymel3's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    Never understood this crapola and it's impact on decision making...the eyes don't lie...stats do usually unless they can measure truly important things and are accurate...like W's and L's.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    You have to take amount of playing time and position into account.

    Here is Boston's lineup with plus and minus....

    Humphries, Sullinger, Green, Bayless, and Pressey.

    With Olynyk and Johnson off the bench.

     

    http://www.82games.com/1314/1314BOS.HTM

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to chris33's comment:

     

    You have to take amount of playing time and position into account.

    Here is Boston's lineup with plus and minus....

    Humphries, Sullinger, Green, Bayless, and Pressey.

    With Olynyk and Johnson off the bench.

     

    http://www.82games.com/1314/1314BOS.HTM

     



    Did you miss the part where Lebron James has the 7th best plus-minus on the Heat?

     

    Thanks for the link. According to it the Celtics best in plus-minus for the year are Blue, Johnson, Brooks, Bayless and Pressey.

     Hey...do you think maybe those guys have high plus minuses because they have spent a lot of time playing in blowouts and not during crunch time against other teams starters?

    what a concept.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     



    This thread doesnt have anything to do with Rondo. You are perseverating.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     



    This thread doesnt have anything to do with Rondo. You are persevarating.



    Does this mean you are perservarating x12? Better go see Dr Phil

    "enter Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  "

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     

     



    This thread doesnt have anything to do with Rondo. You are perseverating.

     



    Does this mean you are perservarating x12? Better go see Dr Phil

    "enter Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  "



    No. It means that I started a post about how the plus-minus stat is not useful.

    Then I put up stats that supported that.

    You then came on and started talking about Rondo. Which had nothing to do with my post and which is pretty much all you ever post about.

    You need to look up perseverating. Me starting a thread on Plus-minus doesn't fit that definition. You prattling on about Rondo in every thread...does.

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     

     



    This thread doesnt have anything to do with Rondo. You are persevarating.

     



    Does this mean you are perservarating x12? Better go see Dr Phil

    "enter Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  "



    No. It means that I started a post about how the plus-minus stat is not useful.

    Then I put up stats that supported that.

    You then came on and started talking about Rondo. Which had nothing to do with my post and which is pretty much all you ever post about.

    You need to look up persevarating. Me starting a thread on Plus-minus doesn't fit that definition. You prattling on about Rondo in every thread...does.

     



    You need to take another elementary class on reading comprehension. My post which clearly discussed Rondos stats, which is consistent with the topic plus/minus, was on the mark.

    Expand your horizons. You are tunnel visioned hoping to outsmart someone but alas, you got your candy ask kicked again.

    Keep trying, I enjoy watching you react every time I push your button..

    Enjoy

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    2013-2014 Player Stats sorted by "Versatility Index" or the ability to score, get assists and rebounds....looks pretty accurate to me. http://www.nbastuffer.com/2013-2014_NBA_Regular_Season_Player_Stats.html

    Also, the old eye ball test it looks to me like Rondo is playing better with nearly each game and certainly shooting better than before he got injured.

    laslty, the past is in the past...

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to 37stories' comment:

     

    In response to Karllost's comment:

     

    Agree... stats are ok if put in perspective... except when it comes to Rondo, all his good stats are legit and the poor ones are because he plays with inferior teammates and a rookie coach.

    I hope Danny figures a way to give Rondo more than a max contract... I think he can win us a title going 1 on 5... honestly

     

     

     



    This thread doesnt have anything to do with Rondo. You are perseverating.

     

     

     



    Does this mean you are perservarating x12? Better go see Dr Phil

     

    "enter Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  "

     



    No. It means that I started a post about how the plus-minus stat is not useful.

     

    Then I put up stats that supported that.

    You then came on and started talking about Rondo. Which had nothing to do with my post and which is pretty much all you ever post about.

    You need to look up perseverating. Your initial response to me made it obvious you have no idea what it means. 

    Me starting a thread on Plus-minus doesn't fit that definition. You prattling on about Rondo in every thread...does.

     



    You need to take another elementary class on reading comprehension. My post which clearly discussed Rondos stats, which is consistent with the topic plus/minus, was on the mark.

     

    Expand your horizons. You are tunnel visioned hoping to outsmart someone but alas, you got your candy ask kicked again.

    Keep trying, I enjoy watching you react every time I push your button..

    Enjoy

     

     

    Your post was about Rondo. It didn't say anything about his plus/minus.

    All of your posts are about Rondo.

    You can't stop thinking about Rondo.

    You get mad when people point out that all you post about is Rondo.

    Look up perseverate. there are 7 other active threads on the front page for you to talk about Rondo on. 

    Sorry I made you mad.  

    Grr.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to futbal's comment:

    2013-2014 Player Stats sorted by "Versatility Index" or the ability to score, get assists and rebounds....looks pretty accurate to me. http://www.nbastuffer.com/2013-2014_NBA_Regular_Season_Player_Stats.html

    Also, the old eye ball test it looks to me like Rondo is playing better with nearly each game and certainly shooting better than before he got injured.

    laslty, the past is in the past...



    I have checked out that metric before. 

    To me I like the old school stats. I like points, assists, boards, blocks, Fg percentage, FT percentage.

    I don't even mind PER.

    Plus minus however...is a joke.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rich1273. Show Rich1273's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    I agree. It's a pointless stat in basketball. It depends a lot on what teammates you are on the floor with, what kind of offense and defense you run, and if you're on the floor for big minutes and/or crunch time.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to chris33's comment:

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     



    It actually doesnt take into account anything at all. It doesnt take into account who you are playing against, or who you are playing with. It doesnt take into acocunt if a player is in against a teams best players or their worst ones.

    It doesnt take into account anything.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    "All of your posts are about Rondo."

    He does post about other stuff sometimes but it is true that Rondo makes him really angry for some reason. Rondo's very presence on this planet personally offends him. 

    Who knows why. 

    I think it's hilarious Rondo wound up being perceived as overrated when to this point he's a 21st pick in the draft who signed a reasonable contract he is still on. There's a few who really hate him on this forum as if he were a max contract guy drafted number one that let them down. Rondo has more than lived up to where he was drafted. 

    As far as the plus/minus, I do think it's actually a useful stat. The best way to use it is to cite it when it supports your arguments, but ignore it when it doesn't. :) That's how I do it. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    "But no stat works without a large enough sample size."

    If Lebron James has the #7 plus/minus stat for the year for the Heat, that's a large enough sample size to prove that plus/minus is almost useless.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "But no stat works without a large enough sample size."

    If Lebron James has the #7 plus/minus stat for the year for the Heat, that's a large enough sample size to prove that plus/minus is almost useless.



    He does.

    On Okc Collison and Fisher have a higher plus/minus than Durant.

    So according to Chris if OKC sat Durant and played Collison they would be a better team.

    On the Clippers Turkoglu has a higher plus/minus than Chris Paul.

    I could go on.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    why plus-10 or minus-10? why not seemingly more efficient +10 or -10?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pickandroll. Show pickandroll's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus


    I had no idea that "persevarating" was actually a word.  I just learned something.  

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to pickandroll's comment:


    I had no idea that "persevarating" was actually a word.  I just learned something.  




    Poster "persevarated" in misspelling the word "perseverate."

    A tragic product of home schooling no doubt.

    Pud

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to puddinpuddin's comment:

     

    In response to pickandroll's comment:

     


    I had no idea that "persevarating" was actually a word.  I just learned something.  

     




     

    Poster "persevarated" in misspelling the word "perseverate."

    A tragic product of home schooling no doubt.

    Pud

     



    Looks like Pud's dsylexia struck again. 

     

    Grats though. This is the first post you have put up since 2010 that wasn't about Rondo or Fierce.

    I, for one, am proud of you. It was cute that you tried to broaden your horizons and join in.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to chris33's comment:

     

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     

     



    It actually doesnt take into account anything at all. It doesnt take into account who you are playing against, or who you are playing with. It doesnt take into acocunt if a player is in against a teams best players or their worst ones.

     

    It doesnt take into account anything.  



    I disagree.

    It is an important stat.

    It tells whether the team is winning when you are on the floor.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to chris33's comment:

    In response to 37stories' comment:

    In response to chris33's comment:

     

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     

     



    It actually doesnt take into account anything at all. It doesnt take into account who you are playing against, or who you are playing with. It doesnt take into acocunt if a player is in against a teams best players or their worst ones.

     

    It doesnt take into account anything.  



    I disagree.

    It is an important stat.

    It tells whether the team is winning when you are on the floor.



    It's a seriously flawed stat.  However there is a similar stat that takes much more into account and it's the adjusted Plus minus stat. 

    Also if you if you want to look at winning you might consider win shares as a better stat, than either. (Rondo led the team last year)

    But fun aside, here is the thing. Danny Ainge is one of the most stat driven GMs in the game.  He was one of the first to seriously get the number crunchers involved. If he makes a move you don't agree with odds are he has WAY better information than you do. 

     

     

     
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