The joke of plus minus

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus


    Interesting that I recently had a conversation with someone who works in a restaurant, (rather not say where), and someone waited on Rondo who was rude to the server and wouldn't sign any autographs. The person who works at this restaurant always liked Rondo and was very surprised at the way that he acted. 

    Contrast with someone that I know at Macy's who waited on Kelly Olynk and Zeno Chara who were very friendly and took their picture with many of the employees who were working and signed autographs.  In the past they have waited on James Posey, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce and other professional athletes and always had positive experiences. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to susan250's comment:


    Interesting that I recently had a conversation with someone who works in a restaurant, (rather not say where), and someone waited on Rondo who was rude to the server and wouldn't sign any autographs. The person who works at this restaurant always liked Rondo and was very surprised at the way that he acted. 

    Contrast with someone that I know at Macy's who waited on Kelly Olynk and Zeno Chara who were very friendly and took their picture with many of the employees who were working and signed autographs.  In the past they have waited on James Posey, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce and other professional athletes and always had positive experiences. 



    Are you sure it was Rondo? He seems to have such a nice disposition all the time..(sarcasm)

    Its too bad the lemmings on this forum fawn all over this punk... Your friends know what Rondo is all about now as do a handful of sharp posters here for the past few years.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Karllost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Interesting that I recently had a conversation with someone who works in a restaurant, (rather not say where), and someone waited on Rondo who was rude to the server and wouldn't sign any autographs. The person who works at this restaurant always liked Rondo and was very surprised at the way that he acted. 

    Contrast with someone that I know at Macy's who waited on Kelly Olynk and Zeno Chara who were very friendly and took their picture with many of the employees who were working and signed autographs.  In the past they have waited on James Posey, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce and other professional athletes and always had positive experiences. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you sure it was Rondo? He seems to have such a nice disposition all the time..(sarcasm)

    Its to obad the lemmings on this forum fawn all over this punk... Your friends know what Rondo is all about now as have a handful of sharp posters here for the past few years.

    [/QUOTE]


    I find it surprising that any professional athlete is rude to anyone.  It definitely doesn't help their reputation.  

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Karllost's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Interesting that I recently had a conversation with someone who works in a restaurant, (rather not say where), and someone waited on Rondo who was rude to the server and wouldn't sign any autographs. The person who works at this restaurant always liked Rondo and was very surprised at the way that he acted. 

    Contrast with someone that I know at Macy's who waited on Kelly Olynk and Zeno Chara who were very friendly and took their picture with many of the employees who were working and signed autographs.  In the past they have waited on James Posey, Kevin Garnett, and Paul Pierce and other professional athletes and always had positive experiences. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you sure it was Rondo? He seems to have such a nice disposition all the time..(sarcasm)

     

    Its too bad the lemmings on this forum fawn all over this punk... Your friends know what Rondo is all about now as do a handful of sharp posters here for the past few years.

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey look!

    karl wrote an angry post about Rondo!

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to jtkl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It actually doesnt take into account anything at all. It doesnt take into account who you are playing against, or who you are playing with. It doesnt take into acocunt if a player is in against a teams best players or their worst ones.

     

    It doesnt take into account anything.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree.

    It is an important stat.

    It tells whether the team is winning when you are on the floor.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's a seriously flawed stat.  However there is a similar stat that takes much more into account and it's the adjusted Plus minus stat. 

    Also if you if you want to look at winning you might consider win shares as a better stat, than either. (Rondo led the team last year)

    But fun aside, here is the thing. Danny Ainge is one of the most stat driven GMs in the game.  He was one of the first to seriously get the number crunchers involved. If he makes a move you don't agree with odds are he has WAY better information than you do. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I like adjusted plus minus, That is a whole different animal.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shamrock1000. Show shamrock1000's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    Basketball will never be as amenable to advanced analytics as baseball. Not saying they are useless, just that they are more effective in analyzing baseball, where the influence of a single individual is less (even a dominant pitcher only pitches every so often), and the actual physical actions that lead to winning are more easily defined and quantified. In basketball, genreally teams that win have dominant players that are obvious from the eye test as well. Again, no doubt advanced stats have their place in b-ball and I'm all for them, but sometimes its irritating to see writers and fans incorrectly spouting stats when it is clear that they have absolutely no idea how a stat is calculated or whether its' underlying assumptions are fulfilled. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to jtkl's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    On court/off court plus and minus is the only stat that takes into account all phases of the game.

    But no stat works without a large enough sample size.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It actually doesnt take into account anything at all. It doesnt take into account who you are playing against, or who you are playing with. It doesnt take into acocunt if a player is in against a teams best players or their worst ones.

     

    It doesnt take into account anything.  

    [/QUOTE]

    I disagree.

    It is an important stat.

    It tells whether the team is winning when you are on the floor.

    [/QUOTE]

    It's a seriously flawed stat.  However there is a similar stat that takes much more into account and it's the adjusted Plus minus stat. 

    Also if you if you want to look at winning you might consider win shares as a better stat, than either. (Rondo led the team last year)

    But fun aside, here is the thing. Danny Ainge is one of the most stat driven GMs in the game.  He was one of the first to seriously get the number crunchers involved. If he makes a move you don't agree with odds are he has WAY better information than you do. 

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    That's why Ainge keeps trying to trade Rondo.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Free-UB. Show Free-UB's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ur WRONG.. sorta.. point is its a bettter guage to judge standard second unit guys than a stud like james or a rondo. its not perfect but its a definite guide. i would guess that the bottom 3 guys on any team is quite accurate in terms of their plus/minus as will 2 out 3 of the top guys.. for wade and bosh to lead miami is nothing to sneeze at. dito with olynyk with us. i mean he's smart and heady and routinely changes the tempo and flow by his presence and energy. again +/- isnt an absolute but its a pretty good metric guide

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Free-UB. Show Free-UB's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "But no stat works without a large enough sample size."

    If Lebron James has the #7 plus/minus stat for the year for the Heat, that's a large enough sample size to prove that plus/minus is almost useless.

    [/QUOTE]


    +111

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to Free-UB's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ur WRONG.. sorta.. point is its a bettter guage to judge standard second unit guys than a stud like james or a rondo. its not perfect but its a definite guide. i would guess that the bottom 3 guys on any team is quite accurate in terms of their plus/minus as will 2 out 3 of the top guys.. for wade and bosh to lead miami is nothing to sneeze at. dito with olynyk with us. i mean he's smart and heady and routinely changes the tempo and flow by his presence and energy. again +/- isnt an absolute but its a pretty good metric guide

    [/QUOTE]

    This is Miamis plus minus order.

    1 Bosh

    2 Chalmers

    3 Wade

    4 Battier

    5 Andersen

    6 Jones

    7 James

    It is a worthless stat.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Free-UB's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ur WRONG.. sorta.. point is its a bettter guage to judge standard second unit guys than a stud like james or a rondo. its not perfect but its a definite guide. i would guess that the bottom 3 guys on any team is quite accurate in terms of their plus/minus as will 2 out 3 of the top guys.. for wade and bosh to lead miami is nothing to sneeze at. dito with olynyk with us. i mean he's smart and heady and routinely changes the tempo and flow by his presence and energy. again +/- isnt an absolute but its a pretty good metric guide

    [/QUOTE]

    This is Miamis plus minus order.

    1 Bosh

    2 Chalmers

    3 Wade

    4 Battier

    5 Andersen

    6 Jones

    7 James

    It is a worthless stat.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You failed to point out that all of those guys are within one point of each other except for Bosh.

    Nice try though.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Free-UB's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ur WRONG.. sorta.. point is its a bettter guage to judge standard second unit guys than a stud like james or a rondo. its not perfect but its a definite guide. i would guess that the bottom 3 guys on any team is quite accurate in terms of their plus/minus as will 2 out 3 of the top guys.. for wade and bosh to lead miami is nothing to sneeze at. dito with olynyk with us. i mean he's smart and heady and routinely changes the tempo and flow by his presence and energy. again +/- isnt an absolute but its a pretty good metric guide

    [/QUOTE]

    This is Miamis plus minus order.

    1 Bosh

    2 Chalmers

    3 Wade

    4 Battier

    5 Andersen

    6 Jones

    7 James

    It is a worthless stat.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You failed to point out that all of those guys are within one point of each other except for Bosh.

    Nice try though.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nick collison is a plus 11.2

    Derek Fisher is a plus 6.0

    Kevin Durant is a plus 3.9.

    I rest my case.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: The joke of plus minus

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Free-UB's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here is the Celtics best line up if you use Plus minus For the year.

     

    Center Olynyk

    PF Sullinger

    SF Johnson

    SG Brooks

    PG Pressey

    Here are the guys on Miami that are higher than James in plus minus.

    Wade, Bosh, Jones Anderson, Chalmers, Battier,  

     

    Plus minus is a joke. It you spend time on the floor in critical minutes you are penalized. It means....nothing.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ur WRONG.. sorta.. point is its a bettter guage to judge standard second unit guys than a stud like james or a rondo. its not perfect but its a definite guide. i would guess that the bottom 3 guys on any team is quite accurate in terms of their plus/minus as will 2 out 3 of the top guys.. for wade and bosh to lead miami is nothing to sneeze at. dito with olynyk with us. i mean he's smart and heady and routinely changes the tempo and flow by his presence and energy. again +/- isnt an absolute but its a pretty good metric guide

    [/QUOTE]

    This is Miamis plus minus order.

    1 Bosh

    2 Chalmers

    3 Wade

    4 Battier

    5 Andersen

    6 Jones

    7 James

    It is a worthless stat.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You failed to point out that all of those guys are within one point of each other except for Bosh.

    Nice try though.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nick collison is a plus 11.2

    Derek Fisher is a plus 6.0

    Kevin Durant is a plus 3.9.

    I rest my case.

    [/QUOTE]

    As I said, time playing needs to be taken into consideration.

    Keep trying.

     
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