Time to panic

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Time to panic

    Last night the C's got everything they wanted...and still lost. This is scary.

    KG had a great game - 24 points, rebounded well, played a lot of minutes

    Bench produced -Lee played well, Green played well

    Rondo gets a triple double

    We had a big lead

    Terry was hitting his shots

    We went 20-20 from the line

    We had at least 4-5 guys in double figures

    ..and we still lost. We're in trouble

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Watching them blow a 27 point lead was painful indeed. I think you're going to see changes made..although for the life of me I can't imagine what they are going to get. This is a team that should be good...but seem to lack consistent chemistry. There's no guarantee that blowing up the team is going to create that chemistry but they also can't continue as an under 500 team. Forget the bench players...perhaps it's time to trade away one of the starters.

    I am a fan of Rondo..but most people I know think it is really impossible to build a consistent, championship team around him. I'd hate to see him go...but I'd understand why if he did.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    PP seems to be the biggest underperformer at this point. maybe he's just done. maybe he's in a slump. but more likely he's just done. can't dive, can't get lift, certainly can't play defense. i think it's time for him to come off the bench and time for green to start. maybe green won't flourish with PP looking over his shoulder, in which case you have to consider trading PP. i hate to say it, bu this is a business. this team, as currently configured, cannot contend for a title. what we should not do under any circumstances is try to make another "one last run" with this aging core. it is time to get younger and more athletic.

    if i were doc and danny i would try my best to hold onto rondo, bradley, green and sully. i'd like to see what melo can do. lee i can take or leave. the rest are tradable IMO. i hate it for KG, because he still has the heart of a lion, but it is time to rebuild this team. we are not going to win it this year, or next year either, with teams like miami and OKC in their primes, so we should look at rebuilding a team that's going to peak 2-3 years down the road. maybe that makes rondo tradable now. i hate that, but he's our biggest chip. we'll be lucky to get anyone to take PP or KG, but if we can do it, we should do it. it may be time for doc to go as well.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ghostofjohnnymost. Show ghostofjohnnymost's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Not only has Pierce's shooting been awful but his decision-making has left a lot to be desired too. If a rookie were to make the same mistakes he'd find himself buried at the end of the bench. Failed to give up the ball to an open Jason Terry in the final possession of regulation last night; opts to go one-on-one with Josh Smith and has the shot blocked. And let's not forget the two botched possessions against the Knicks in the previous game. Looks like he's moving in slow-motion out there and not fooling anyone with his repertoire of moves. If nothing else, reduce his minutes!

    I doubt anything Danny can do at this stage will salvage the season and suddenly turn this team into a legitimate contender, which means he needs to set the foundation for the future. Although most of the finger-pointing for the team's lack of consistency appears to be aimed at the new players who seem to feel a sense of Celtic "entitlement", it was quite obvious that the starting unit let the game get away against the Hawks after an energetic first half stint by the bench.

    Although everyone thinks Pierce will retire a Celtic, Danny needs to make a bold move...a la Epstein and Garciaparra...otherwise we'll be another year older and a step or two slower in 2013-2014. I, for one, am tired of the rhetoric and excuses; we should have seen some results by now.           

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    kaktug, I think you're right any many ways but I would at least make a few deals (if possible) change the lineups and wait until March to see where we are.

    1-Try to make some trades

    2-Go to PP and tell him he's coming off the bench or he's at least going to take a week off...one or the other. If he balks, try to work a deal to a contender for him.

    3-Start Green and Sully...play them extensively if Sully can stay out of foul trouble.

    4-Bring up Melo and play him extensively

    One of two things may happen. You will see what you have going forward and/or it will allow others to see these guys for possible trades with added minutes.

    We can still make the playoffs but some messages need to be sent.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to BirdLewsBias's comment:

    kaktug, I think you're right any many ways but I would at least make a few deals (if possible) change the lineups and wait until March to see where we are.

    1-Try to make some trades

    2-Go to PP and tell him he's coming off the bench or he's at least going to take a week off...one or the other. If he balks, try to work a deal to a contender for him.

    3-Start Green and Sully...play them extensively if Sully can stay out of foul trouble.

    4-Bring up Melo and play him extensively

    One of two things may happen. You will see what you have going forward and/or it will allow others to see these guys for possible trades with added minutes.

    We can still make the playoffs but some messages need to be sent.



    Like it!! I am in!!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    I was saying this a while ago and I still am...Green needs to start. He's younger and I believe he is one of those guys that you need to start if you want more consistency from him.

    Make Pierce the 6th man (if he is not traded) and lower his minutes to keep him fresher. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    I was saying this a while ago and I still am...Green needs to start. He's younger and I believe he is one of those guys that you need to start if you want more consistency from him.

    Make Pierce the 6th man (if he is not traded) and lower his minutes to keep him fresher. 



    Green will go for 15 points or so and Pierce may be more effective off the bench.  Do it Doc?

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawaiibob. Show hawaiibob's posts

    Re: Time to panic--Not Yet--cross posting ahead

    I'm sure there's someone whose memory is better than mine regarding the end of Havlicek's brillant career. If I recall correctly, Hondo retired in 77. Celtics won the title in 76. I know H was an integral part of the team and a starter who of course was the greatest 6th man ever before moving into the starting lineup. Just curious what his role was his last few years.

    Pierce seems to be a very proud and assertive guy--an alpha as we say--but he is also a savvy vet who probably knows it better than any that the time has come for him to morph into a different role and come off the bench. it is all in how it's presented and PP may be very receptive to it. Maybe he has a tweaked ankle or gimpy hamstring that requires an early pre Allstar break rest to gear up for the end of the season and playoffs? This requires JG to move into the starting rotation and get 36 mpg while PP is resting and recuperating? Just saying that it's worth considering. The assumption some of us make--and I am one--is that aging former all pros are able to still play at a high level just not for the extended time they were able to when they were in their prime--and this seems to be the case for KG. Question is: is it also true for The Truth?

    I avidly follow this forum and the celticsblog.com site and don't see how a blockbuster trade of PP or Rondo or both will really do much at this point for this season. I think our best bet is to do the PP 6th man move and work the trade lines to get a Dalembert-type to patrol the paint and defend the rim. As I've said before--playoff basketball is about attacking and defending the rim. We have the attackers but need at least on (more) defender. If the PP transition works and we get the big we can make a historic run to 18. It is eminently possible even in the face of the current malaise. 

    Final point: RR--the question that must be answered is simple--is RR THE GUY--moving forward but that's a question--in my mind to be settled in the offseason.

    Addendum: Yes--get Melo up here and work him in to see what he can do. One of my complaints about Doc is that he seems like he doesn't always give new/young players clearly defined roles and expectations: as for say Melo: you're going to get 8 minutes in the 1st half--the end of Q1 and beginning and end of Q2--total (and also similar in 2nd half depending on game situation). Your job: defend the rim, box out, rebound, move, pass the ball. Don't worry about mistakes just bust your okole to do what we ask. So imagine if this is the end result come playoffs: 1) PP adjusted to 6th man with fresh legs at 25 mpg available and able to close out games 2) JG operating as most of us think he can averaging 15-18 ppg taking it to the rim, hitting some jumpers, shutting down his man in key moments, being part of a "rebounding by commitee" gang that includes sully, kg, melo, wilcox, rr 3) An emerging defensive and rebounding presence in Melo playing 16-20 mpg--perhaps a john salley type? 4) and if a big is acquired--a presence in the middle to close down the driving lanes at opportune times. I'm saying this is a recipe for success!

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    If you look at +/- all the starters have huge minuses, and most of the main bench players have sizeable pluses.  We lost it in the third with about 5-6 minutes stretch where the Hawks got maybe 20 points differntial against the starters.  I said to myself, you better get the bench in right away when the lead was down to single digit but nothing much was done.  I think Doc should consider changing the role of the players and vary the personnel based more on the dynamic of the games than to just stick with similar rotation every night.  If that means hurting some pride and feelings so be it.  To get the most of this team, you can't rely on the veterans, sometime you might want to let the younger players do more heavy lifting even at the end of the game.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:

    Last night the C's got everything they wanted...and still lost. This is scary.

    KG had a great game - 24 points, rebounded well, played a lot of minutes

    Bench produced -Lee played well, Green played well

    Rondo gets a triple double

    We had a big lead

    Terry was hitting his shots

    We went 20-20 from the line

    We had at least 4-5 guys in double figures

    ..and we still lost. We're in trouble



    YET, somehow, green needs more shots than 8 in 30 minutes and terry didn't play very many minutes, did he?  beyond that- KG w/ great game, yes, and then look at collins.   a piece of furniture has the same stat line as collins did and the furniture will do you one better- it's incapable of turning the ball over

    there is no possible way we can consider that anyone in our 2 position "had a great game" when a bomb-deep-only dingbat like korver scored 27.....  that's the ball game right there

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    it's literally impossible for us to succeed with bass DOA and no other players that have any positive effect on the game besides sullinger to help mop up the 4/5 minutes.  we'll lose  alot with green or pierce at the 4.  it is what it is.  we needed darko and doc really screwed that up.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    I think we all are in good agreement what should happen with the team.

    But will Doc do it? I doubt it. He'll keepdoing the same thing over and over, same rotations etc.

    What was the definition of insanity again?

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdLewsBias. Show BirdLewsBias's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    I think PP, Terry and Bass off the bench will provide more balance. Doc is trying to win games in the 1st half and by late in the 4th quarter the team is dead.

    He can always finish games with PP but Doc needs to use PP like he uses KG. Don't start PP but allow him to finish the games and I think PP would rather be in the game at the end when the game can be determined.

    So what if the team falls behind to start the games. Heck we just saw a team come from 27 points down. Games aren't won in the 1st half.

    Start Green and Sully DOC!

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    "3-Start Green and Sully...play them extensively if Sully can stay out of foul trouble."

    YES!!!!

    4-Bring up Melo and play him extensively"

    never gonna happen. He's not ready. There's no point in risking his development. the guy starting playing ball when he was 17. He's a two to three year project. 

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to hawaiibob's comment:

    I'm sure there's someone whose memory is better than mine regarding the end of Havlicek's brillant career. If I recall correctly, Hondo retired in 77. Celtics won the title in 76. I know H was an integral part of the team and a starter who of course was the greatest 6th man ever before moving into the starting lineup. Just curious what his role was his last few years.

    Pierce seems to be a very proud and assertive guy--an alpha as we say--but he is also a savvy vet who probably knows it better than any that the time has come for him to morph into a different role and come off the bench. it is all in how it's presented and PP may be very receptive to it. Maybe he has a tweaked ankle or gimpy hamstring that requires an early pre Allstar break rest to gear up for the end of the season and playoffs? This requires JG to move into the starting rotation and get 36 mpg while PP is resting and recuperating? Just saying that it's worth considering. The assumption some of us make--and I am one--is that aging former all pros are able to still play at a high level just not for the extended time they were able to when they were in their prime--and this seems to be the case for KG. Question is: is it also true for The Truth?

    I avidly follow this forum and the celticsblog.com site and don't see how a blockbuster trade of PP or Rondo or both will really do much at this point for this season. I think our best bet is to do the PP 6th man move and work the trade lines to get a Dalembert-type to patrol the paint and defend the rim. As I've said before--playoff basketball is about attacking and defending the rim. We have the attackers but need at least on (more) defender. If the PP transition works and we get the big we can make a historic run to 18. It is eminently possible even in the face of the current malaise. 

    Final point: RR--the question that must be answered is simple--is RR THE GUY--moving forward but that's a question--in my mind to be settled in the offseason.

    Addendum: Yes--get Melo up here and work him in to see what he can do. One of my complaints about Doc is that he seems like he doesn't always give new/young players clearly defined roles and expectations: as for say Melo: you're going to get 8 minutes in the 1st half--the end of Q1 and beginning and end of Q2--total (and also similar in 2nd half depending on game situation). Your job: defend the rim, box out, rebound, move, pass the ball. Don't worry about mistakes just bust your okole to do what we ask. So imagine if this is the end result come playoffs: 1) PP adjusted to 6th man with fresh legs at 25 mpg available and able to close out games 2) JG operating as most of us think he can averaging 15-18 ppg taking it to the rim, hitting some jumpers, shutting down his man in key moments, being part of a "rebounding by commitee" gang that includes sully, kg, melo, wilcox, rr 3) An emerging defensive and rebounding presence in Melo playing 16-20 mpg--perhaps a john salley type? 4) and if a big is acquired--a presence in the middle to close down the driving lanes at opportune times. I'm saying this is a recipe for success!




    I like the way you think!!

    On the topic of Melo, another thing he is improving on, that would benefit the Cs right now, is pick setting! He gets better at "building a wall" each game!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to BirdLewsBias' comment:

    I think PP, Terry and Bass off the bench will provide more balance. Doc is trying to win games in the 1st half and by late in the 4th quarter the team is dead.

    He can always finish games with PP but Doc needs to use PP like he uses KG. Don't start PP but allow him to finish the games and I think PP would rather be in the game at the end when the game can be determined.

    So what if the team falls behind to start the games. Heck we just saw a team come from 27 points down. Games aren't won in the 1st half.

    Start Green and Sully DOC!

     



    You often make some good points, but this one actually makes no sense (highlighted above).   KG comes out middle of the first quarter.  Bass is starting instead of Sully.  In last night's game, the lead was built by the subs who played LOTS of minutes in the second quarter.  So, how in the world is that trying to win in the first half and wearing the team out by the end of the game?   Pierce, KG, and Sully were all fresh by the end and they blew a lead.   It had nothing to do with trying to win in the first half.  It had everything to do with the bench playing well in the second quarter and our starters (especially Pierce) stinking it up in the 3rd quarter to give the lead away.   Add to that, Rondo and the starters slowed the ball up vs the way the bench moved the ball with the pass and not the dribble.

    How in the world do you get that Doc was trying to win the game in the first half and wearing the starters out?   The starters, especially Pierce and Bass, just plain stink.   The part I fault Doc for is not recognizing that his veteran Pierce, is just not playing well enough to get all the minutes and plays.   That is on the coach!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

    "3-Start Green and Sully...play them extensively if Sully can stay out of foul trouble."

    YES!!!!

    4-Bring up Melo and play him extensively"

    never gonna happen. He's not ready. There's no point in risking his development. the guy starting playing ball when he was 17. He's a two to three year project. 

     

     



    +1000   And...DON'T go to isolations with Pierce late in the game!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    In response to concord27's comment:

     

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

     

    I was saying this a while ago and I still am...Green needs to start. He's younger and I believe he is one of those guys that you need to start if you want more consistency from him.

    Make Pierce the 6th man (if he is not traded) and lower his minutes to keep him fresher. 

     



    Green will go for 15 points or so and Pierce may be more effective off the bench.  Do it Doc?

     

     



    He was averaging 15-16 PPG in OKC and that was when he was being forced into playing PF (he's more of a SF). I knew he would not be as depended on in Boston as he was in OKC for scoring, but my point is the guy can play. I think he just needs consistent minutes and a starting job for it to show.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonGlory. Show BostonGlory's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Agreed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Right, because starting Sullinger and Green will make this team into a contender for the championship.

    Wut?

    Blow it up. these discussions over who starts and who plays more minutes just delay the inevitable.

    The roster needs to be changed.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Green never proved here or in OKC than he can be the player we need to replace PP. If our go to guy is Green we are most likey are team which is favorite for the 1st pick for the following season.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    I am fine with watching whatever team they put out there. I have been a fan for 35 years now.

    But seriously people talking about how an 8th seed is going to become more relevant if Jeff Green starts instead of Paul Pierce?

    What about getting some bigs?  What about getting younger?  What about the bad contracts of Green, Bass and KG and Terry?

    nah lets just start Sully and Green.  that will fix everything.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mployee8. Show Mployee8's posts

    Re: Time to panic

    Jackie MacMullen makes a point when she says Doc may have to pull a Pop and rest KG & PP one or two days every couple of weeks to maintain their legs for the entire season if nobody is being traded.

     

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