To All The Rondo Haters

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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : acie: I'm not making this up. The following is a recent Gary Washburn article entitled.... " Rondo Grabs At His Chance " from the Globe: Enjoy! Pud In a moment of failure, Rajon Rondo took a major step forward as a leader and a franchise point guard The scouting report on Rondo is brutally honest. Leave him alone on the perimeter. If he hits three in a row, leave him alone. If he hits five, leave him alone. It won’t change for a while, regardless of how much Rondo works on his most glaring weakness — his jump shot. In the waning seconds of the Celtics’ 89-87 loss last night at American Airlines Center, Rondo was left alone for a jump shot, the Mavericks using five defenders to check four Celtics . Trailing by 2, Rondo held the ball standing at the 3-point line, his teammates staring at him. The Mavericks waited for his dribble penetration but realized he didn’t have enough time for an acrobatic shot.   He waited a few more moments, set his feet, and launched a 3-pointer with 3.8 seconds left. The ball felt silky coming off his fingers, but like a fairway drive, it tailed to the right, clanging off the rim. Ray Allen gathered the rebound with 2.8 seconds left but Jason Terry intelligently fouled him as the Mavericks had one to give. In reality, the game ended on Rondo’s miss. But the fact he attempted the 3-pointer was progress for a player who has sometimes tried to camouflage his detractors. During last year’s NBA Finals, when Rondo was struggling with his free-throw shooting, he curtailed his drives to the basket.   On countless occasions last season, Rondo passed on open jumpers, seeking refuge with a pass to a covered teammate. This year he is snapping those jumpers and burning defenses with his improved range. Rondo is years from being considered a 3-point shooter, but he is more comfortable with the long-range jumper than pundits believe. Last night, he fell short in his bid to convert a rare game-winner, but the victory here is in the fortitude to try. No one uttered a word of criticism, only encouragement. The training wheels are officially off.   “He’s wide open,’’ forward Paul Pierce said. “He was open two or three seconds before he even took it. We were begging him to shoot it. Hey, we’ll take that, a wide open look. Rondo, he’s showed he can make those shots, especially under pressure situations. I take it. I told him after the game, I’ll take that shot.’’ There is still stubbornness in Rondo, a refusal to acknowledge his jumper is a weakness. That teams are blatantly inviting him to shoot is a sign of disrespect for his perimeter game. Teammate Jermaine O’Neal said recently that once Rondo develops a jumper, much like what has been said about Derrick Rose and about Jason Kidd 10 years ago, his game will be impeccable.   Rondo would like to think it’s impeccable now. The white elephant in his mental living room is that darn jumper. It’s improving, but it’s not yet there. It’s there in practice. It has been there during stretches this season, but until he knocks it down with consistency, he will be left alone.   “The options were all taken away and I was open and I took the shot,’’ he said. “I was open, so I am going to take it if they give it to me. I got a lot of confidence in it. I thought it was good. I got my feet set, got a good look.’’   Rondo’s older teammates have been trying to hand him the leadership reins of this team for the past year, and Rondo has accepted the challenge in terms of running the offense and initiating dribble penetration to create open spaces for teammates, but he has yet to appear completely comfortable with that jumper.   The Celtics are not going to win consistently when Rondo is one of the team’s scoring leaders, but they do need him to be more aggressive offensively. And last night he was, although his quest ended in disappointment.   It’s Game 8, and the Celtics nearly clipped a hungry, motivated Mavericks team despite playing the second game of a back-to-back. Dallas treated this game as if it were the NBA Finals, with motions and gyrations toward the crowd after big baskets and a bigger-than-usual celebration after a November win.   The Celtics took Dallas’s best shot and nearly survived. But this early season is as much about establishing roles and confidence as it is about winning. The next time, Rondo won’t hesitate to launch that 3-pointer and perhaps it will go down. But the Celtics have been begging Rondo to be more assertive with his shot, and he has reluctantly accepted the pleas. “I have confidence in myself,’’ he said. “When my teammates have it in me, it’s always encouraging. I had a good look. It just didn’t go down.’’ Gary Washburn can be reached at gwashburn@globe.com .
    Posted by puddinpuddin


     I could have made a sandwich on that Dallas game waiting for him to do something with the ball. He's a pass first Pg(because he can't shoot) 'Play it Safe Rondo' Is what i call him now.  If he pass the ball, he's credited with an assist, If the shooter misses, he's safe from blame, no sweat off his back.
    I rest my Case
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters WOW...you're right,,,you're not any more of a Rondo Hater than you are a Hater of anyone who does...

    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters:
    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : So Nate shoots better than Rondo and he should be starting point guard on this team?
    Posted by alchow00

     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters WOW...you're right,,,you're not any more of a Rondo Hater than you are a Hater of anyone who does...

    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters WOW...you're right,,,you're not any more of a Rondo Hater than you are a Hater of anyone who doesn't hate Rondo!!! I find it funny that despite his obvious weaknesses, nearly everyone in the league, players and coaches alike, s:
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    Posted by wimeli


    Quite a headline, fella.

    Post much?

    Pud
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

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    Four PGs ended up with roster spots on the Team USA ahead of Rondo. Rose, Westbrook, Billups and Curry. Some believe that Coach K also had a "blind hatred" for Rondo's game that clouded his judgment, sent Rondo packing and propelled Team USA to a world championship. What other explanation could there be? Final roster spots based on merit/performance.... or bias/prejudice? Judge for yourself. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin


    When was the last time Coach K coached in the NBA? 

    Did Team USA have the same roster that the Celtics have?

    How is this a relevant argument?  It proves nothing.
     
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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : and THIS is the silliest arguement of all.  DJ played with a point forward in larry bird- remember him?  comparing rondo's assists to DJ's assists and implying some better or worse basic point guard abilities is like comparing apples to ape p@@p. and here's how: let us examine the 1985 celtics, a typical DJ and supporting cast year.  let's start with DANNY dad blame AINGE, who averaged 5.3 assists as shooting guard, then there was POINT FORWARD LARRY BIRD who averaged 6.6 assists .  so there you have TWO non point guard players averaging just shy of 12 dimes a game. then take DJ's team leading 6.8 assists, 85% free throw shooting, ample medium range shooting to keep 'em honest, and consistent tenacious lock down defense on a nightly basis , and you have almost no similarities with rondo just DJ vs. rondo . rondo is lazy on defense , takes nights off, shoots low 40% free throws , and most of the time REFUSES to shoot open jumpers, over-penetrates and over-passes to avoid taking said open jumpers .  yeah, he gets a LOT of assists becase he doesn't do a lot of the other things that he should be doing. don't get me wrong, i like a flashy pass that makes the crowd go "ahhh!", but at the end of the day (read: playoffs) we are headed toward another disaster with rondo.  he will disappear.  at 43% free throws and stone cold going nowhere in terms of even seeking out contact on drives and practicing his jumper, this stands to be his worst MIA job in the playoffs of his career.  remember, last year, rondo visibly started trying in the last 10 games or so and he was already in the high 50% free throws and never was in the 40% or 30% range where he has happily dwelled the first quarter of this year. in all, it's not even worth comparing rondo to anyone .  he is unique.  no other starting point guard in the history of the game other than 1940s peach basket characters have ever shot 43% freebies.  nobody.  sadly, even though rondo COULD be the best PG in the league if he learned how to shoot, any one of 10 or 12 PG's could replace him right now and we'd be better off for the change.
    Posted by aciemvp


    Your perception is so far off reality.  You say that with Rondo in the playoffs we are headed for another disaster?  What was the last disaster?  Reaching the finals of the NBA when every expert had us picked as exiting in the 2nd round.

    Your arguments amuse me.  Really.  No substance.  You have a knack for making a good thing look like an awful thing.

    Rondo is a stud.  Everyone in the Celtics organization thinks so.  I feel good about this.  I hope it pisses the hell out of you.
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : The "pundits.... doc" is a great strawman argument, gtown. Is that all you have? Acie speaks articulately for a awful lot of Rondo and Celtic watchers who have serious concerns about this issue. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin


    And your arguments are the best in the world:

    "Coach K picked 4 guys ahead of Rondo.  Therefore, Rondo must be really bad."

    A more flawed argument I have never heard.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

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    Are these the points being made here? 1)  Rondo is not a perfect player.  His game has some big weaknesses like FT shooting.   Agreed!! 2)  Celtics lost in the finals last year because of Rondo's lack of shooting.  Partially agreed.  They also lost because of a weaker inside presence. 3)  There are players that can be a better fit for the Celts than Rondo.  Agreed.  Chris Paul come to mind.  And BTW, other than KG, I feel that there are better players in the NBA at every position. 4)  The Celtics fans should be very pleased that they have Rondo.  Completely agreed.  I am very pleased.
    Posted by prakash


    Thank you.  At least some sense.  Some posters here use Rondo as a scapegoat.  Why?  I don't know.  It is just appalling.  At this point, it is just an ego thing.  The better Rondo does, the more they want to discuss how Rondo is bad.

    If we are to look at the picture wholistically, there are other weaknesses on the Celtics roster than Rondo's FT shooting.
     
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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : In the vacuum of last year Lakers series, you would also conclude that the Celts did not have inside presence.  If they had either of the two, they would have probably won.  They have inside presence now. I only care about the team getting better.  If that means trading Rondo, by all means.  But he will be hard to trade given that he is a base year compensation player.  I have also advocated to trade Perk if it makes sense for the team. But Devin Harris is not the answer and neither is Jameer Nelson.  I don't believe that there are many, many, many players that can replace Rondo and make the Celts better.  There are only a couple.
    Posted by prakash


    Most of the final games were won by the team that controlled the boards.  In game 7 we got outrebounded like we have never gotten out rebounded. 

    KG was on one leg.  Rasheed Wallace had a bad back.  And Perkins was out.  Big Baby was our best big and dude is 6'7".

    That is why we lost.  It wasn't because of Rondo.  Don't try and misconstrue frames here.  Get your facts right.  Only 3 people in this world think Rondo was the reason.  All three post of these board.  The rest of the NBA knows that we lost because our front line was EXTREMELY thin in games 6 and 7.
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters:
    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : Your perception is so far off reality.  You say that with Rondo in the playoffs we are headed for another disaster?  What was the last disaster?  Reaching the finals of the NBA when every expert had us picked as exiting in the 2nd round. Your arguments amuse me.  Really.  No substance.  You have a knack for making a good thing look like an awful thing. Rondo is a stud.  Everyone in the Celtics organization thinks so.  I feel good about this.  I hope it pisses the hell out of you.
    Posted by bilalkazmi


    the last disaster was when rondo shrunk into a fetal ball in the lakers series in the finals and did NOTHING.  check his stats, once he died off, speedy claxton could have gotten us 6 and 6 in 30 minutes.

    it's not "with rondo we will have a disaster", it's "when rondo's confidence plummets because he can't shoot the ball, we are in for a disaster"

    so up until the laker series, rondo was shooting outside decently enough, free throws decently enough and then his touch fell off the edge of a flat planet, known as rondo's touch.  it was gone.  and so was his confidence.

    just look at the stats, you do NOT have to believe me or my "crazy" ideas on it. 
    EVERY playoffs, he dies at a certain point.  it happened in 08, 09, 10 and it will happen in 11.  when we won it in 08, rondo was a MINISCULE part of the championship series.  he did great in 09 up until a certain point and then drastically neutered himself becaues his touch fell off and the sag down double down, fears of hack a rondo wrecked his fragile psyche.

    again, i say, tired of saying it, that when rondo is "on", like for stretches, but JUST stretches of the regular season, certain games and some parts of playoffs past, we are a nearly impossible team to beat.

    but when rondo hits the skids in his own mind, we beat ourselves because we are 4 on 5 in the half court offense.  rondo does almost nothing.  if you can be happy with that then God Bless, but it doesn't equal greatness or team play to me to have a here today gone tomorrow PG problem.
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters:
    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : the last disaster was when rondo shrunk into a fetal ball in the lakers series in the finals and did NOTHING.  check his stats, once he died off, speedy claxton could have gotten us 6 and 6 in 30 minutes. it's not "with rondo we will have a disaster", it's "when rondo's confidence plummets because he can't shoot the ball, we are in for a disaster" so up until the laker series, rondo was shooting outside decently enough, free throws decently enough and then his touch fell off the edge of a flat planet, known as rondo's touch.  it was gone.  and so was his confidence. just look at the stats, you do NOT have to believe me or my "crazy" ideas on it.  EVERY playoffs, he dies at a certain point.  it happened in 08, 09, 10 and it will happen in 11.  when we won it in 08, rondo was a MINISCULE part of the championship series.  he did great in 09 up until a certain point and then drastically neutered himself becaues his touch fell off and the sag down double down, fears of hack a rondo wrecked his fragile psyche. again, i say, tired of saying it, that when rondo is "on", like for stretches, but JUST stretches of the regular season, certain games and some parts of playoffs past, we are a nearly impossible team to beat. but when rondo hits the skids in his own mind, we beat ourselves because we are 4 on 5 in the half court offense.  rondo does almost nothing.  if you can be happy with that then God Bless, but it doesn't equal greatness or team play to me to have a here today gone tomorrow PG problem.
    Posted by aciemvp


    Why would you say "check his stats" and then make some comment about 6 and 6?  He averaged something like 13.5 and 8 against the Lakers.  This is exactly what I am talking about.  All you do is make your points weaker when you engage in that kind of game.

    Ray Allen shot 33 for 90 against the Lakers.  I don't know you think if he shot 45 for 90 the Celtics would have won?  Garnett averaged less than 6 boards a game against the Lakers.  Think if he grabbed 10 a game the Celtics would have won? We could play this game all day.  
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

    Any coach would love to see Rondo and Shack in a tight game late, period.  West and JO should finish games if possible.  Rondo is a very good player and he is a great player against weaker teams, but don't kidd youseld, Heat and Lakers will be glad to have Rondo in the game while Koby and Wade gurad him and everytoby else on the team.  He will need to establish a 40+ percent jumpshot during the season to nullify the negative he will be against the Hear or Lakers.  And I like the guy, but the truth is the truth.
     
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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : Why would you say "check his stats" and then make some comment about 6 and 6?  He averaged something like 13.5 and 8 against the Lakers.  Posted by Icon11


    after game 2, when rondo notched 2 for 5 from the line, he was non-existent the rest of the series.  he averaged 12.6 pts, 7 assists, 2.8 turnovers, and 20% free throws.   sound like your flawless star guard?  THIS is what I am talking about. 

    He f@rted out a 2-5 game from the line in game 2 and that was his second or third bad game in the playoffs right close together in the playoffs and that was it.  it was THE END of the aggressive, productive, havoc-tempo-making rondo that enabled us getting that far to begin with.

    just go back and watch games 3-7 of that series.  they were bloody miserable when rondo was in them for the most part.  12 and 7 with almost 3 turnovers and 20% from the line isn't what i would call a clutch nut cuppin' time performance late in the NBA finals, you?
     
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    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

    Rondo's FG% this season is better than Ray Allen's (again) and better than every other PG in the league...maybe Nash is better.
     
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    Rondo's FG% this season is better than Ray Allen's (again) and better than every other PG in the league...maybe Nash is better.
    Posted by shines01


    Good point, shines. Stats don't lie.

    Even better, RayRay has missed twice as many FTs in December as young Rondo. TWICE AS MANY!!! Count'em.

    Put that in your bong and smoke it,  haters!

    Pud
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Icon11. Show Icon11's posts

    Re: To All The Rondo Haters

    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters:
    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : after game 2, when rondo notched 2 for 5 from the line, he was non-existent the rest of the series.  he averaged 12.6 pts, 7 assists, 2.8 turnovers, and 20% free throws.   sound like your flawless star guard?  THIS is what I am talking about.  He f@rted out a 2-5 game from the line in game 2 and that was his second or third bad game in the playoffs right close together in the playoffs and that was it.  it was THE END of the aggressive, productive, havoc-tempo-making rondo that enabled us getting that far to begin with. just go back and watch games 3-7 of that series.  they were bloody miserable when rondo was in them for the most part.  12 and 7 with almost 3 turnovers and 20% from the line isn't what i would call a clutch nut cuppin' time performance late in the NBA finals, you?
    Posted by aciemvp

    I never said he was "my flawless star guard".  You are too wrapped up in hyperbole to pay attention to what I am saying.   The only reason I called you out is you said check the stats and then you said "6 and 6"  If you said check the stats and then said 12 and 7 I never would have posted.

     
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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters:
    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : the last disaster was when rondo shrunk into a fetal ball in the lakers series in the finals and did NOTHING.  check his stats, once he died off, speedy claxton could have gotten us 6 and 6 in 30 minutes. it's not "with rondo we will have a disaster", it's "when rondo's confidence plummets because he can't shoot the ball, we are in for a disaster" so up until the laker series, rondo was shooting outside decently enough, free throws decently enough and then his touch fell off the edge of a flat planet, known as rondo's touch.  it was gone.  and so was his confidence. just look at the stats, you do NOT have to believe me or my "crazy" ideas on it.  EVERY playoffs, he dies at a certain point.  it happened in 08, 09, 10 and it will happen in 11.  when we won it in 08, rondo was a MINISCULE part of the championship series.  he did great in 09 up until a certain point and then drastically neutered himself becaues his touch fell off and the sag down double down, fears of hack a rondo wrecked his fragile psyche. again, i say, tired of saying it, that when rondo is "on", like for stretches, but JUST stretches of the regular season, certain games and some parts of playoffs past, we are a nearly impossible team to beat. but when rondo hits the skids in his own mind, we beat ourselves because we are 4 on 5 in the half court offense.  rondo does almost nothing.  if you can be happy with that then God Bless, but it doesn't equal greatness or team play to me to have a here today gone tomorrow PG problem.
    Posted by aciemvp


    You are a Johnny one note and very boring.
     
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    In Response to Re: To All The Rondo Haters : You are a Johnny one note and very boring.
    Posted by greenkillme


    so are all the peeps who claim rondo was just fine in the lakers series last year beyond game 2.  he posted the worst 12 and 7 in point guard playoff history.  it's not my fault that he did it.  nor that some people don't know how to watch a basketball game and process horrific actions being done right in front of their eyes.
     
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