Tom Heinsohn

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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : They prob did the voting before the playoffs, so you couldn't know for sure that Russ was going to be the missing piece to a title. The Celtics had made the playoffs for several years in a row and it was the talents of Cousy, Sharman and a pretty decent rebounding defending Center in Ed McCauley that led them there. Those mid 50's teams were always a scoring forward short of going farther and thats what Tommie was. McCauley was part of the trade for Russell.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Thank goodness Red followed that tip he got!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    Yes, tension between races in LA is getting worse. Born and raised so I am somebody that can say this! As for Boston, I can also say I do not know because I have never been there before. 

    If you haven't been somewhere before don't act or talk like you know, and that goes for both sides!!!

    Go Celtics!!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    stiorevo, very well said. I have been to both places and have seen much more racism on the streets of Boston, unfortunately.
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]Yes, tension between races in LA is getting worse. Born and raised so I am somebody that can say this! As for Boston, I can also say I do not know because I have never been there before.  If you haven't been somewhere before don't act or talk like you know, and that goes for both sides!!! Go Celtics!!!
    Posted by stiorevo[/QUOTE]


    Having lived in a few places in my day, I'd say No. Carolina was the worst. 
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    Tommy Heinson fellow HC Alumni go Holy Cross Crusaders
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]Tommy Heinson fellow HC Alumni go Holy Cross Crusaders
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    I heard "The Most Intereseting Man in the World" applied and didn't get in - he went to BC instead...lol

    Yes, Heinsohn, Cooz, Togo and Garry Witts, all went to Mt. St. James, and I've met or been in class with all of them.
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]Question regarding Tom Heinsohn. How did he beat Bill Russell for the rookie of the year award? The sportswriters at the time didn't like Russell? Or they figured that Heinsohn was more important to the Celtics success than Russell in 56/57?
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]

    Wondering why one guy who would not get drafted today beat out PJ Brown for rookie of the year seems a bit silly......
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Tom Heinsohn : Wondering why one guy who would not get drafted today beat out PJ Brown for rookie of the year seems a bit silly......
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    While Part A of your rant MAY be true....Part B is BY FAR the dumbest, most putrid, hateful thing you've ever written.

    Usually your OPINIONS are at least backed up by facts.....but this takes the cake.....you are not a Celtics fan if you compare Bill Russell to........him!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : I heard "The Most Intereseting Man in the World" applied and didn't get in - he went to BC instead...lol Yes, Heinsohn, Cooz, Togo and Garry Witts, all went to Mt. St. James, and I've met or been in class with all of them.
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    Togo is one of the toughest SOB's I ever met
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : Togo is one of the toughest SOB's I ever met
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    I rank Togo in the top 5 speakers I've ever heard at a camp.
    Hubie Brown
    Jimmy V
    Pitino
    Togo - I could listen to his stories all day

    All heard at HC camp, btw, with Head Coach George Blaney - who told me I had a Div 1 jumpshot in a Div 2 body!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    Red I was coaching from 81 to to 89 at the Camp
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]Red I was coaching from 81 to to 89 at the Camp
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    I attended in 77-78....worked from 79 to about 83............went back in the mid 80's, then worked for Willard and the guy before him (forget his name now!)  Maybe our paths crossed at some point!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    I roomed with Danny Trant from Clark 
    coach Willard was a great guy,

    were you talking about assist coach Kevin Clark
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : While Part A of your rant MAY be true....Part B is BY FAR the dumbest, most putrid, hateful thing you've ever written. Usually your OPINIONS are at least backed up by facts.....but this takes the cake.....you are not a Celtics fan if you compare Bill Russell to........him!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    6 feet 9, 200 pounds, no offense.... sounds like PJ Brown to me..........

    Part of it was tongue in cheek - players of yesteryear did not have weight training, personal nutrionist, private planes, 4 star hotels, etc.

    That said let's see Russell go against Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, Howard, etc.........

    Nothing in this entire thread can be anything other than speculation unless you want to look at "facts" then vs. "facts" now. I only make conjecture when I see threads like this to get people's ire. There is no comparing generations. Tommy Heinsohn on his absolute best day may be one of the Euro jump shooters who like to talk a good game blah blah blah.

    Granted Russ did almost always win against the only other real center in the league, there was no salary cap and the athletes then (as they were then) would have zero chance now. Imagine if every year Red said to Russ - you can have Cousy or Heinsohn or KC or Sam or whomever but you can't have them all..... well then you would not have 11 of 13 championships but you would have a salary cap.

    People love to wax poetic about how Russ made a science of rebounding blah blah blah, measuring angles, blah blah blah..... there is something called evolution.  When Russ played it was amazing to some that he could box people out and measure the angles blah blah blah... Today those are things that are just taken for granted. Today's bigger, stronger, faster would very simply dominate but that does not mean that if those players of yesteryear had today's luxuries they would not be just as good and vice verse.
     
    If Cousy could do something that was likely unnamed at the time - i.e. the crossover, today if you get past 3rd grade and don't have a good crossover you don't have any game.

    People love their binkies and I am certainly not trying to whack Russ but I remember a thread on this board several years ago where someone suggested that Shaq would not last one second against Russell's elbows in his ribs, etc. My response was very simple, Russell would be guarding Lamar Odom and Shaq would probably not even recognize Russell other than in a switch, i.e. 6 9 200 pounds doesn't guard Shaq, Hakeem, Howard, Patrick, Robinson, etc.....

    Finally, if you think for one second that your opinion of me is anything other than something to read you are sadly mistaken.
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]I roomed with Danny Trant from Clark  coach Willard was a great guy, were you talking about assist coach Kevin Clark
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]


    No, the African-American Head Coach after Blaney and before Willard!!  Just slipped my mind is all!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : 6 feet 9, 200 pounds, no offense.... sounds like PJ Brown to me.......... Part of it was tongue in cheek - players of yesteryear did not have weight training, personal nutrionist, private planes, 4 star hotels, etc. That said let's see Russell go against Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, Shaq, Howard, etc......... Nothing in this entire thread can be anything other than speculation unless you want to look at "facts" then vs. "facts" now. I only make conjecture when I see threads like this to get people's ire. There is no comparing generations. Tommy Heinsohn on his absolute best day may be one of the Euro jump shooters who like to talk a good game blah blah blah. Granted Russ did almost always win against the only other real center in the league, there was no salary cap and the athletes then (as they were then) would have zero chance now. Imagine if every year Red said to Russ - you can have Cousy or Heinsohn or KC or Sam or whomever but you can't have them all..... well then you would not have 11 of 13 championships but you would have a salary cap. People love to wax poetic about how Russ made a science of rebounding blah blah blah, measuring angles, blah blah blah..... there is something called evolution.  When Russ played it was amazing to some that he could box people out and measure the angles blah blah blah... Today those are things that are just taken for granted. Today's bigger, stronger, faster would very simply dominate but that does not mean that if those players of yesteryear had today's luxuries they would not be just as good and vice verse.   If Cousy could do something that was likely unnamed at the time - i.e. the crossover, today if you get past 3rd grade and don't have a good crossover you don't have any game. People love their binkies and I am certainly not trying to whack Russ but I remember a thread on this board several years ago where someone suggested that Shaq would not last one second against Russell's elbows in his ribs, etc. My response was very simple, Russell would be guarding Lamar Odom and Shaq would probably not even recognize Russell other than in a switch, i.e. 6 9 200 pounds doesn't guard Shaq, Hakeem, Howard, Patrick, Robinson, etc..... Finally, if you think for one second that your opinion of me is anything other than something to read you are sadly mistaken.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    More useless drivel from a non-Celtics fan!  Russ covered Wilt, he couldn't cover Ewing?????
    He didn't score because he didn't have to.  PJ Brown average 22.5 rebounds for his career??
    Get a dud, lifer!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]I roomed with Danny Trant from Clark  coach Willard was a great guy, were you talking about assist coach Kevin Clark
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    Just remembered, Bill Raynor!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : More useless drivel from a non-Celtics fan!  Russ covered Wilt, he couldn't cover Ewing????? He didn't score because he didn't have to.  PJ Brown average 22.5 rebounds for his career?? Get a dud, lifer!!
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11[/QUOTE]

    22.5 rebounds for his career, 56 game hitting streak, 406 batting average, average a triple double, etc.   Now you may understand that none of those stats really matter giving today's games.  Brady had 50 touchdowns when nobody was allowed to check receivers does that mean that Marino would have had 100 touchdowns?

    Randy Moss caught 24 touchdowns but Rice caught 23 in 3 fewer games, does that make Moss better?

    22.5 rebounds per game for a career?   completely irrelevant today.... yes Russ guarded Wilt and then had until the next time he guarded Wilt before he had to guard anyone... WOW....

    Next I guess I will have to read how Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double so he was better than LeBron or Michael or even Scottie for that matter.

    As I said, I don't engage in the ERA debates because they are irrelevant and the people that live their lives vicariously through each generation cannot possibly believe the next generation could be better.

    You don't quite get it I guess. 

    In the end Tommy Heinsohn may just be Kevin Love on an off day but of course for those that viewed him as a hero he is better than Michael, Hakeem, Scottie, LeBron, Wade, etc. combined.....

    Just let it go.
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn : 22.5 rebounds for his career, 56 game hitting streak, 406 batting average, average a triple double, etc.   Now you may understand that none of those stats really matter giving today's games.  Brady had 50 touchdowns when nobody was allowed to check receivers does that mean that Marino would have had 100 touchdowns? Randy Moss caught 24 touchdowns but Rice caught 23 in 3 fewer games, does that make Moss better? 22.5 rebounds per game for a career?   completely irrelevant today.... yes Russ guarded Wilt and then had until the next time he guarded Wilt before he had to guard anyone... WOW.... Next I guess I will have to read how Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double so he was better than LeBron or Michael or even Scottie for that matter. As I said, I don't engage in the ERA debates because they are irrelevant and the people that live their lives vicariously through each generation cannot possibly believe the next generation could be better. You don't quite get it I guess.  In the end Tommy Heinsohn may just be Kevin Love on an off day but of course for those that viewed him as a hero he is better than Michael, Hakeem, Scottie, LeBron, Wade, etc. combined..... Just let it go.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    REALLY?????

    Sorry if you think you're smarter than me, but such is not the case!!
    This thread started about Heinsohn.. YOU introduced Russell in the equation.  And, AS I SAID, it is arguable Tommy Gun would be a HOF player today, it is NOT that Russell would be!

    Here is my question for you - you said in the second novel of your trilogy that half of what you wrote was tongue-in-cheek.  Correct?
    Well, then, that's all you needed to say - that you were joking.
    Instead, Mr. Know-it-all, you then spent the entire rest of your novel AND the next one trying to defend your stance.  That is not tongue-in-cheek.  That is someone who truly believes that Bill Russell is PJ Brown - WOW yourself.
    I guess YOU don't get it.  The greats would be great in any generation - Brown, Ruth, Williams, DiMaggio, Marino, Montana............and Russell.
    Please let it go now, as I have no use for anyone who thinks Bill Russell couldn't handle Patrick Ewing!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    I still think we made a big mistake not joinging the Big East
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]I still think we made a big mistake not joinging the Big East
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]

    Well, Brooksie said at the time that it was not a basketball decision - it was all the other sports.  Blaney would probably still be the coach if we did - LOL!!

    I roomed with Marty Ziobro, if that name rings a bell!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    We were coaching at the same time.  Ernie and I were good friends back then we worked at the radio station too used to go to clubs togather
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    In Response to Re: Tom Heinsohn:
    [QUOTE]We were coaching at the same time.  Ernie and I were good friends back then we worked at the radio station too used to go to clubs togather
    Posted by genaro008[/QUOTE]
    WOW - my brother said he saw Ernie's kid play today at a hoop camp at Algonquin!
    Ernie would definitely remember me...........I hung out with Kevin Greany, Chris Logan, and, of course, Ron Perry was a very good friend of mine!!
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    Saw Ernie at a funeral few months ago.    We used to work the night shift at WCUW
     
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    Re: Tom Heinsohn

    Did Logan play at Rhode Island College?
     
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