TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? : Exactly, I feel the same way most of the people in this country do, so I should be embarrassed... some people have to pay their mortgages, some don't some people have to pay for their food, some don't some people have to pay to go to school, some don't and the beat goes on and the country begins to look like Chad but that is ok because hundreds of years from now when the country has been bankrupted those, then Americans, who whatever the country is named by then can thank the complete lack of personal responsibility by a growing number for being the cause of the decline of the greatest country the world has ever known.... but who cares.... some people have to pay for their oil, some don't some people have to pay for their clothes, some don't... our current president wants you and your ilk to believe that when a person is born, goes to school, does well, is responsible for himself, goes to college, and say becomes a cardiologist... he not only has to give up half of what he makes but it is his fault that those that made poor decisions in life and ignored the path to success are in ruin and that he is somehow morally obligated to make sure that those that live in neighborhoods where nobody has ever had a job, no intention of ever getting a job, cannot read or write, drop out of high school to start their family so day can be like daze momma, etc. can do so.... Tough love is coming for America or America is doomed.... When you live in a country where the decision is to give everyone in school a free lunch so those that get the free lunch because of their single parent are not embarrassed by peer pressure, you are doomed.... The government spends 10 billion a day, takes in 6 billion, throws away 1 a billion just to placate some, another billion a day on debt service and those like you likely think it should be much worse just to make sure we all get along.... The Greek, et all bailouts were less than 1 tenth of 1 percent of what it would take to bail out the US and the rest of the world would be laughing if it came to that........ Me embarrassed?  Not at all.......
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    I`m surprised you didn`t work Rondo into this.You`re too stupid to be embarrassed   ,but that doesn`t mean you aren`t a laughing-stock.You and old racist should start your own blog.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? : Exactly, I feel the same way most of the people in this country do, so I should be embarrassed... some people have to pay their mortgages, some don't some people have to pay for their food, some don't some people have to pay to go to school, some don't and the beat goes on and the country begins to look like Chad but that is ok because hundreds of years from now when the country has been bankrupted those, then Americans, who whatever the country is named by then can thank the complete lack of personal responsibility by a growing number for being the cause of the decline of the greatest country the world has ever known.... but who cares.... some people have to pay for their oil, some don't some people have to pay for their clothes, some don't... our current president wants you and your ilk to believe that when a person is born, goes to school, does well, is responsible for himself, goes to college, and say becomes a cardiologist... he not only has to give up half of what he makes but it is his fault that those that made poor decisions in life and ignored the path to success are in ruin and that he is somehow morally obligated to make sure that those that live in neighborhoods where nobody has ever had a job, no intention of ever getting a job, cannot read or write, drop out of high school to start their family so day can be like daze momma, etc. can do so.... Tough love is coming for America or America is doomed.... When you live in a country where the decision is to give everyone in school a free lunch so those that get the free lunch because of their single parent are not embarrassed by peer pressure, you are doomed.... The government spends 10 billion a day, takes in 6 billion, throws away 1 a billion just to placate some, another billion a day on debt service and those like you likely think it should be much worse just to make sure we all get along.... The Greek, et all bailouts were less than 1 tenth of 1 percent of what it would take to bail out the US and the rest of the world would be laughing if it came to that........ Me embarrassed?  Not at all.......
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    BTW, you`ll find out in November that most of the people in the country DON`T agree with you.
     
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    [QUOTE]yeah yeah, i know this is a sacred celts-only board for many, but with bron and the heat honoring the young man with the hoodie tribute, made me focus on him a bit, esp with all the recent developments. do you think zimmerman is being railroaded with the rush to justice and judgment? do you think if trayvon was blond and blue eyed, no one views him as suspicious in the first place and he's still amongst us? what happens next?
    Posted by CAPITALIST_AVENGER[/QUOTE]

    Zimmerman can hardly be railroaded if he hasn`t been charged with anything.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? : BTW, you`ll find out in November that most of the people in the country DON`T agree with you.
    Posted by jrleftfoot[/QUOTE]

     if you're trying to equate a vote for the democrat or republican candidate with being racist or not racist, then congratulations, you have become the very thing you are pretending to condemn in the other post.  If this is the narrative you whish to perpetuate, then you are a fake.
     
     Maybe you're just getting a little carried away, it happens to the best of us.  But if you think that the 2012 election will be a commentary on racism, then what you are really trying to do is to morally criminalize your political opposition.  And for this, you have stopped thinking for yourself.   

     
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    In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?:
    [QUOTE]Keep posting, Dud.   You just expose yourself every time you post.   You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]


          +3

     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? :  if you're trying to equate a vote for the democrat or republican candidate with being racist or not racist, then congratulations, you have become the very thing you are pretending to condemn in the other post.  If this is the narrative you whish to perpetuate, then you are a fake.    Maybe you're just getting a little carried away, it happens to the best of us.  But if you think that the 2012 election will be a commentary on racism, then what you are really trying to do is to morally criminalize your political opposition.  And for this, you have stopped thinking for yourself.   
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    I`m suggesting that Dudder`s rant is typical of teaparty types.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? :  if you're trying to equate a vote for the democrat or republican candidate with being racist or not racist, then congratulations, you have become the very thing you are pretending to condemn in the other post.  If this is the narrative you whish to perpetuate, then you are a fake.    Maybe you're just getting a little carried away, it happens to the best of us.  But if you think that the 2012 election will be a commentary on racism, then what you are really trying to do is to morally criminalize your political opposition.  And for this, you have stopped thinking for yourself.   
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    Most, if not all of the people who think like Dudder will vote Republican.If you can`t see that ,you are blind.I have no idea how many of them will be racists , but polls suggest that many of them will .There has been extensive polling of tea party types with respect to their racial attitudes. I never said or suggested that everybody who votes Republican is racist.The remark I made was addressed to Dudder, no one else.I`m not implying that you`re not entitled to respond, but that you`re misinterpreting what I said.Congratulations to you ,too. If you somehow identify with Dudder`s rant, that`s your privilege.Maybe I touched a sore spot.
     
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     Well, I don't identify with his rant but it seems like it would suit your mindset if I did.  And I did not misinterpret what you said at all because what you said was "you'll see that most of the country doesn't agree with you in November".  What else where you implying?  

     Now you are saying "tea party" types and if I don't back off and say tea party people are racists it will mean (according to you) I am and that your character assault upon 50% of the country is validated, and that's nonsense.  Dignify yourself and argue based on what you think are better ideas of how to get to there from here (this is a general comment, I'm not going to spend the next two days battling you over it on this forum, but you might want to sharpen your argument if you argument isn't an argument but only to say that the people you disagree with are racists).  

     As much as you've been conditioned to think tea party types want jim crow back, which is laughable as well as horrible, and as difficult as it may be for you to consider that they would be fighting along side you against racial theorists, try a different approach.  You might realize they are questioning how the government is spending our money.  And the relationship between government and individual liberty is an essential conversation.  Just like the conversation about wealth and poverty is an essential one.  And as unfocused, adolescent, and scatterbrained as it was at times, the occupy protests where forcing this conversation to the table.  

      if you decide to answer me back I hope it's not to insinuate that I'm something I'm not, or that half the country is.  If you do, you're being a bit of a puppet on a string.  And by the way, it doesn't matter that George Zimmerman is a registered Democrat.  It doesn't mean that he was more or less likely to racially profile.      

         


     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    This is why this thread needs to go.  Posts like Dudder's is meant to rile up folks.  But to set the record straight, most folks who recieve public assistance is White.  Go chew on that Dud!!!  Get your facts straight!!!
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    I agree with those who say this thread should not be here, in the sense that politics is a very divisive subject and we're here to talk about sports. There is certainly a place for this important discussion, just not here. The idea that the Heat took a picture with hoodies doesn't make this a sports story. 

    Having said that, one revealing outcome of this thread is we learned there are a couple of folks, one in particular with very prejudiced views that help to explain how he conducts himself on this forum.
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    Keep posting, Dud.   You just expose yourself every time you post.   You embarrass yourself and don't even know it.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life

    +4
     
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    [QUOTE] Well, I don't identify with his rant but it seems like it would suit your mindset if I did.  And I did not misinterpret what you said at all because what you said was "you'll see that most of the country doesn't agree with you in November".  What else where you implying?    Now you are saying "tea party" types and if I don't back off and say tea party people are racists it will mean (according to you) I am and that your character assault upon 50% of the country is validated, and that's nonsense.  Dignify yourself and argue based on what you think are better ideas of how to get to there from here (this is a general comment, I'm not going to spend the next two days battling you over it on this forum, but you might want to sharpen your argument if you argument isn't an argument but only to say that the people you disagree with are racists).    As much as you've been conditioned to think tea party types want jim crow back, which is laughable as well as horrible, and as difficult as it may be for you to consider that they would be fighting along side you against racial theorists, try a different approach.  You might realize they are questioning how the government is spending our money.  And the relationship between government and individual liberty is an essential conversation.  Just like the conversation about wealth and poverty is an essential one.  And as unfocused, adolescent, and scatterbrained as it was at times, the occupy protests where forcing this conversation to the table.     if you decide to answer me back I hope it's not to insinuate that I'm something I'm not, or that half the country is.  If you do, you're being a bit of a puppet on a string.  And by the way, it doesn't matter that George Zimmerman is a registered Democrat.  It doesn't mean that he was more or less likely to racially profile.            
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]
    It`s hard not to be dismissive of somebody that mischaracterizes what you say and gets indignant about it to boot, but I`ll try.People vote for many reasons.I never said or suggested that everybody who votes against the prez is a racist .My comment was directed to Dudder, who has quite clearly exposed himself. I expect Obama to win.I could easily be wrong about that,but Dudder will clearly be disappointed if he does.You may be dissappointed too, or I might, but for different reasons.Frankly I wish I never got involved in this discussion. Why it was started on this board is a mystery to me.Peace be with you.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? : Exactly, I feel the same way most of the people in this country do, so I should be embarrassed... some people have to pay their mortgages, some don't some people have to pay for their food, some don't some people have to pay to go to school, some don't and the beat goes on and the country begins to look like Chad but that is ok because hundreds of years from now when the country has been bankrupted those, then Americans, who whatever the country is named by then can thank the complete lack of personal responsibility by a growing number for being the cause of the decline of the greatest country the world has ever known.... but who cares.... some people have to pay for their oil, some don't some people have to pay for their clothes, some don't... Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]dud, believe it or not, i agree with your basic premise about the contributors vs those who don't and are over-rewarded to the point there is ZERO incentive to not be a loafer or parasite.where i have a major beef with you though (at least til u smartly tried to clean it up with this post) is the instinctual equivalence of BLACK and non-pigmented white people with the non-contributors. this is what zimmerman did. he was so certain that for any non-white person to be in such a rich gated community, he must have been trespassing or up to no good. the idea that there could be a legit brotha just wearing a hoodie never crossed his mind. thats RACISM my friend. everything negative is automatically assigned to anyone non-white 9have u watched the GOP nominee process at all?).

    the country is about to be majority non-white yet your kind is ill-prepped to mentally and positively embrace that reality. yes, i'm not naive. due to both historical ill-treatment/ancestral neglect and a l ot of present bad choices, the numbers are and should be bad for multi-generational american blacks in comparison to their white brethren. that's just tragic. had we been included in the homestaead acts from way back AFTER nathan's rebellion around the 16th century and been able to get government help and welfare (free land, $ and tools to work the land is WELFARE) to be middle-class, clearly as a race there would be no great distinction between us and others.

    dont kid yourself, in every race the top 1% are the ones that shape the perceptions for all. most whites just hand on to the coat tails of bill gates, buffett, steve jobs and others. u get defined by your best pigmented brothas, we don't. despite the fact that MOST blacks are now raised and born in suburbs we still overwhelmingly get stereotyped by those from the hood and straight outta compton or roxbury. it took generations to get here, will take generations to get out. as a black man, i would agree with a michele obama and  that real freedom and inclusion didnt happen for most blacks til BILL CLINTON got in there. talking barely one generation. give it 4 or 5 more, and the differences amongst the races would be trivial! in the meantime, deal with it, live with it. we shall overcome in time as a collective.

    the obama level, clearly blacks are carrying their weight. amongst the very poor, there really isnt that much of a gap. appalachians, trailer park whites are just as decadent as the poorest blacks and latinos. the problem is with the great middle. GI bill, social security, government-backed bank loans for homes, government backed college loans and so forth made only whites eligible in their first incarnations. wasnt til the 70s that some blacks were able to sneak thru. how is that a level playing field. we as a race are very far behind. again, will take time. show some compassion and respect for still standing and enduring for all these years and not just obssess over the worse shortcomings. again, most welfare $ is spent on white people, specifically white women.. y do u insist on just branding black people as the "enemy"?
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?


      leftfoot, I hear you. Thanks for clearing it up, didn't mean to mischaracterize what you said.
     
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    [QUOTE]  leftfoot, I hear you. Thanks for clearing it up, didn't mean to mischaracterize what you said.
    Posted by passfirst[/QUOTE]

    Fair enough.Dudder got my goat and set me off.I could have been more circumspect. I enjoy your basketball posts .My  new resolution is to be more civil. Perhaps I should hold off til tomorrow on making it though, since this is April 1, and I`m quite capable of being the Fool.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean? : He doesn't have a stereotype because he is wearing a hooded sweatshirt, he has a stereotype because most of the people of his race live in a singlefamily setting, cause most of the violence and crime in this country and cause and consume a significantly disporportionate percentage of the welfare costs in this country.....  he did not get what he deserved at all... what I said that in 2012 in a civilized society where everyone, especially those of his race, are given more than they deserve by yet unborn taxpayers ignore the path to success and do everything they can to perpetuate the strereotypes applied to them....  it is as if someone were to walk into an Irish pub and say all of the Irish are a bunch of drunks.... and come to find out... drum roll please... they are....  I am not saying all the Irish are drunks, but what I am saying is that if every time you read some sort of news and it point to specific segme nts of society and over the years trillions and trillions of dollars are just handed to them to make sure they do not have to conform then are surprised by the results then you get what you pay for.......  Sarah Silverman, a well known Jewish comedienne, said well I am 38 now and I have been thinking about having kids but I guess I realize that um the best time to have kids is like when you are 15 and black....... I witnessed the following conversation yesterday at Target when I asked whether the store had bubble bath for adults as opposed to kids bubble bath.... "Stee, Stee, this custahmuh axe for bubboo baff but not fuh kizz jiss fuh adowse, duh yah no if we has dah bubboo baff fuh kizz, alzyawls joh is to know wheh aw da prodix is n s hit, no whuh I sain?".... She was stating to her colleague, Steve that a customer was looking for bubble bath for adults and that apparently Steve's job required him to know where all the products are so that asking him would help the customer find what she was looking for.....  that is the future of America and therefore, the end of America.. completely illiterate, single mother of two, no chance for a future and none for the kids either..... why?  well because year after year the government decides that it is better to give trillions of future taxpayer dollars to people that fail to comply with the most basic societal requirements..... but oh well.....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]


    You are a truly ignorant and sad little person.  Your insecurity about who you are and your station in life is so obvious that it is laughable.  You constantly wonder why people around you don't get the way you think so you try and tell yourself it is because you are so intelligent.  In reality your words sound as jumbled to rational people as the woman at Target who you decided to mock for no reason at all.  If the revolution ever happens people like you will be the first to go.
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    REALLY? I am sad a very young man has died. What ticks me off the most is the hate crime talk. Its always a hate crime when a young, old, black man dies. YET, when we see blacks, (African Americans) do the same thing its not as big of a deal. I say this over and over. These people want justice:

    Well where is the NAACP when blacks do the same thing to whites?
    How come they dont come out of the woods? And thell their "brothers" to stop it?
    Again I am sad a young man died. Just sick and tired of people making it a black/white or hate crime issue.
     
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    bottom line on this case is that its not murder what zimmerman did, but... just amazing the double standard from the cops in this SPECIFIC case. i dont care about all the history crapp. bill belichick or someone of his pigment wears a hoodie, think he would have been considered a suspect? the kid had every legal and moral right to be walking on that street. he was visiting a relative with his dad and bugging noone. guys like dudder want to rationalize that because of the circumsantial aspects of his race he somehow deserves to be treated like dirt automatically. how many blaks are automatically followed in stores and elsewhere regardless of unprovocative acts? i can understand zimmerman following him with his eyes from his house or calling the police from his house to follow or check out another "suspicious" black man. we get used to it, it suks but its not a crime. t

    the minute he got out and instigated the confrontation and became "suspicious" to trayvon on a public street, he put himself in manslaughter territory. the cops told him directly to not pursue, they have 2 witnesses and a 911 tape with trayvon yelling help help help before zimmerman  shoots him. one can hear the loud pop in the background. there's another terrifying 911 call from trayvon to his galfriend about this stranger following him in the dark. i can see him turning around to ask what's up and being hit and shot. this guy's racism made him so certain that  ANY black man in his neighborhood esp at night was suspicious and worthy of checking out, humiliating and treating callously. he could have been obama, bill cosby, herman cain, colin powell, clarence thomas, it wouldnt have mattered!

    the cop who investigated initially (CHRIS) to his credit recommended in his report that zimmerman be prosecuted by the DA or attorney-general. there are 2 WHITE women ready to give testimony that they made eye contact with him and he was standing over trayvon, that he never wiped his face to indicate an injury, that it was trayvon calling for help and in terror and so on. they called 911 that nite and have been trying to reach investigators to no avail. its like the cops have no interest in the facts, can anyone imagine a black man shooting someone in this vain and having the cops be as indifferent in even arresting him after 5 freakin weeks? what more FACTS do they need about manslaughter here? the dude still has his gun (s).
     
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    In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?:
    [QUOTE]REALLY? I am sad a very young man has died. What ticks me off the most is the hate crime talk. Its always a hate crime when a young, old, black man dies. YET, when we see blacks, (African Americans) do the same thing its not as big of a deal. I say this over and over. These people want justice: http://www.naacp.org/news/entry/naacp-townhall-calls-for-justice-for-trayvon-martin   Well where is the NAACP when blacks do the same thing to whites? How come they dont come out of the woods? And thell their "brothers" to stop it? Again I am sad a young man died. Just sick and tired of people making it a black/white or hate crime issue.
    Posted by PAULICAS1975[/QUOTE]

    I see this sentiment alot, and I don't understand it.  Can you name me a time when a black person or people kill a white person and is not, at the very least, arrested and brought to trial?  People will say OJ got away with murder, but at least he was brought to trial.  And there have been plenty of NAACP rallies, marches, speeches, etc regarding black on black crime, hip hop music, and other black community issues. 

    One more thing, I'm kind of impressed with this thread.  While it is a sports forum, the post in this thread have been generally decent.  There are differences in opinion, but for the most part, everyone has been pretty civilized.  Kudos to you all...
     
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    In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?:
    [QUOTE]bottom line on this case is that its not murder what zimmerman did, but... just amazing the double standard from the cops in this SPECIFIC case. i dont care about all the history crapp. bill belichick or someone of his pigment wears a hoodie, think he would have been considered a suspect? the kid had every legal and moral right to be walking on that street. he was visiting a relative with his dad and bugging noone. guys like dudder want to rationalize that because of the circumsantial aspects of his race he somehow deserves to be treated like dirt automatically. how many blaks are automatically followed in stores and elsewhere regardless of unprovocative acts? i can understand zimmerman following him with his eyes from his house or calling the police from his house to follow or check out another "suspicious" black man. we get used to it, it suks but its not a crime. t the minute he got out and instigated the confrontation and became "suspicious" to trayvon on a public street, he put himself in manslaughter territory. the cops told him directly to not pursue, they have 2 witnesses and a 911 tape with trayvon yelling help help help before zimmerman  shoots him. one can hear the loud pop in the background. there's another terrifying 911 call from trayvon to his galfriend about this stranger following him in the dark. i can see him turning around to ask what's up and being hit and shot. this guy's racism made him so certain that  ANY black man in his neighborhood esp at night was suspicious and worthy of checking out, humiliating and treating callously. he could have been obama, bill cosby, herman cain, colin powell, clarence thomas, it wouldnt have mattered! the cop who investigated initially (CHRIS) to his credit recommended in his report that zimmerman be prosecuted by the DA or attorney-general. there are 2 WHITE women ready to give testimony that they made eye contact with him and he was standing over trayvon, that he never wiped his face to indicate an injury, that it was trayvon calling for help and in terror and so on. they called 911 that nite and have been trying to reach investigators to no avail. its like the cops have no interest in the facts, can anyone imagine a black man shooting someone in this vain and having the cops be as indifferent in even arresting him after 5 freakin weeks? what more FACTS do they need about manslaughter here? the dude still has his gun (s).
    Posted by CAPITALIST_AVENGER[/QUOTE]

    Exactly!
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    My understanding is this guy is not white, he is hispanic...how is this a white/black thing..Plus we don't yet know the true story, and forming opinions, show our ignorance. Some folks just need a little spark, to make a brush fire..
    .As far as the Tea Party, we have an hispanic chapter in Fresno/Clovis, we sold tamales..hows that for a Racist organization???? By the way, lots were bought from whites, blacks, hispanics..who cares...
     
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    Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?

    In Response to Re: TRAYVON MARTIN, any thoughts? what does it all mean?:
    [QUOTE]My understanding is this guy is not white, he is hispanic...how is this a white/black thing..Plus we don't yet know the true story, and forming opinions, show our ignorance. Some folks just need a little spark, to make a brush fire.. .As far as the Tea Party, we have an hispanic chapter in Fresno/Clovis, we sold tamales..hows that for a Racist organization???? By the way, lots were bought from whites, blacks, hispanics..who cares...
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]ortiz, surely you aren't this moronic. hispanic is a culture, not a PIGMENT. got that? I'm black, what does that mean? I could be hispanic/latino, african-american ( i personally do not like that term to describe my identity), africo-american (my preferred term for 1st to third generational american blacks who identify more with their real recent AFRICAN ancestors and culture) or just afro or afro-american (my preferred term for all those who are pigmented black with a BLACK cultural identity anywhere). so yes, as a black i could be herman cain and clarence thomas and choose only to identify myself as a black euro and reject everything culturally black of mine. i could be a part of the tea party too. so yeah, zimmerman is still pigmentally WHITE but is culturally mixed by being a hispanic and euro! you got this? do you feeeel a little less ignorant? now go tea bagg someone!
     

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