Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Wow. Every possesion seemed to end in a jumpshot. Many poorly timed with very little on the clock or too much on the clock. For this team to win, they have to start driving the lane and pounding it inside. It seemed they never got to the line. And don't blame the refs for that. Blame the Cs for settling for too many jumpers on tired legs. That is a recipe for failure.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    the second and third quarters were so putrid that it made you want to renounce ever watching basketball again.

    both teams were horrible.  the game was there for the taking, over and over and over again.  but we had nothing.  i don't know how many free throws we shot but it must have been a frighteningly low number- very little aggressive play.

    things that jumped out at me-

    some 25 minutes of floor time for bass and steamer yield 1 or 2 rebounds. 

    pierce totally stinko. 

    garnett invisible until the 4th quarter? 

    bass putrid again, but at least he tried shooting the ball- still not enough rebounding to his game. 

    rondo with a miserable stinking game.  after so many posessions of him never trying to create for himself in the half court set (he did have a couple breakaway/hurry up layups) then our offense is terribly predictable.  he put up rory sparrow scoring numbers tonight.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    lavoy whoever and eldron brand are 6-8 or 6-9- they spent a lot of time on KG tonight- why wasn't there any low post action by kg?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Ask Doc that question aciemvp? Both teams were horrible. But in the end, the Cs were worse. Not sure what to expect on Wednesday.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticsfanmx. Show celticsfanmx's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Horrible and very boring. The OKC game against the fakers was way more exciting. Barkley often remarked that they were playing with no passion and urgency and I think he is right. Things have to change or this team won't make it against Philly.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    Horrible and very boring. The OKC game against the fakers was way more exciting. Barkley often remarked that they were playing with no passion and urgency and I think he is right. Things have to change or this team won't make it against Philly.
    Posted by celticsfanmx


    Which would be a shame. I don't think sixers stands a chance against the Heat. But I think the Cs do when they are playing their game.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    i just do not understand how we can go from playing decently to playing like the original paper clips.

    dare we sally forth and venture a guess?????  coaching?  all coaches have an expiration date as far as when they are just talking to themselves vs. actually being listened to.

    i really did not see doc make any corrective strategical actions in this game in the 2nd / 3rd quarters- we were horrible and we kept playing EXACTLY the same.  usually a coach calls a T/O and come out with something different.  all i saw was more of the same.  for half of a freaking game.  not acceptable.

    i know we have injuries.  but even with pierce in stinko land and bass in the same place he's been (right next door to stinko), we shouldn't lose to this PHI team that has been asking to be blown out in games 1&2.

    tonight, for rondo to go 4-12 in an utterly unaggressive manner sealed it for us.  hate to point at one player but when he is not aggressive, not stirring the pot, we lose.  and that is taking into consideration bass's 7 straight misses in the first and second quarters- sure those should have been dimes, but they were ALL JUMP SHOTS.

    we need rondo to mix it up between being a turnstyle for the ball in the half court and slashing to the bucket, and hitting some J's.  he really only did the one tonight- rotating ball in half court.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    i just do not understand how we can go from playing decently to playing like the original paper clips. dare we sally forth and venture a guess?????  coaching?  all coaches have an expiration date as far as when they are just talking to themselves vs. actually being listened to. i really did not see doc make any corrective strategical actions in this game in the 2nd / 3rd quarters- we were horrible and we kept playing EXACTLY the same.  usually a coach calls a T/O and come out with something different.  all i saw was more of the same.  for half of a freaking game.  not acceptable. i know we have injuries.  but even with pierce in stinko land and bass in the same place he's been (right next door to stinko), we shouldn't lose to this PHI team that has been asking to be blown out in games 1&2. tonight, for rondo to go 4-12 in an utterly unaggressive manner sealed it for us.  hate to point at one player but when he is not aggressive, not stirring the pot, we lose.  and that is taking into consideration bass's 7 straight misses in the first and second quarters- sure those should have been dimes, but they were ALL JUMP SHOTS. we need rondo to mix it up between being a turnstyle for the ball in the half court and slashing to the bucket, and hitting some J's.  he really only did the one tonight- rotating ball in half court.
    Posted by aciemvp


    Well, they have not really played decent ball yet in these 2 games. Game 1 they had to make a large come from behind win by a point victory. They tried to repeat it tonight. They can't keep that as a winning formula for sure. Old legs take longer to recover. Discouraged with the level or lack there of of emotion for a playoff game. The Cs are the better team, but they have yet to show up for this series.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Quis can drive it to the hole. Bass looks terrible, maybe triple J is worth a look.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    Doc needs to find another PF to play Brand & Allen ... Bass needs help and whoever it's been so far has been invisible. This is a series where Williams could shut Allen & Brand down but I guess Doc doesn't have the confidence in him yet or he doesn't know the playbook ... too bad.
    Posted by Mployee8


    okay jekyll hyde, one thread you're all over me about mentioning facts about bass and over here you want to start shawnae williams over him?  nice!

    but anyway, who really cares if he knows the playbook.  i mean if the guy could just play D he could turn off lavoy's happy birthday party that lasted most of two games....  elton brand has stunk. 

    i say we go a different direction and split 48 minutes between steamer and hollins (wince) and let KG play the 4.  those two won't let hawes do a thing and KG can get to mutilate brand (somewhat take a break) on D and hopefully draw brand on offense which should be 25 easy points of inside out easy shots over a guy who is 6-8 and KG is 7-1
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots : Well, they have not really played decent ball yet in these 2 games. Game 1 they had to make a large come from behind win by a point victory. They tried to repeat it tonight. They can't keep that as a winning formula for sure. Old legs take longer to recover. Discouraged with the level or lack there of of emotion for a playoff game. The Cs are the better team, but they have yet to show up for this series.
    Posted by antiqueman1


    the flagging emotion has gone back to the ATL series really.  this team seems to have a pathological problem now of allowing 12-2 and 14-4 runs in most every game to make everything 2-3 more times as difficult as it should be.

    to me it really looks like they are mentally tired.  and i hate to say it, but if you're mentally tired in the playoffs then you just don't want to win.  maybe these guys got their "one" and just pre-determined this wasn't going to be their year. 

    now with bosh down in miami, .....   well, that was a stupid choice.  i would bet you that the INJURIES are not done rolling in YET.  i know we have some but they don't seem insurmountable for now.

    and that mentality i mentioned above- it doesn't have to be explicit or talked about.  it can be in the mind of one or two of the big 3.  and that's all it takes for the team to go that way.

    it's either the "we ain't goona win it this year so why bother getting to excited about these games" phenomena or we are looking at doc rivers washing ashore as coach of the celtics.  those are the only two explanations i can come up with
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    acie, I said this on another thread about Doc's coaching.

    Doc's instruction to the team must NOT be getting through if we continued to settle for the perimeter jumpers in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.  To score 24 points in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined and then score 32 points in the 4th brings into question what kind of coaching Doc was doing in those middle quarters.

    It baffles me how he then gets in the post-game interview and says we moved the ball and made the extra pass in the 4th quarter but did not in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.  Well, isn't that YOUR JOB to make sure the team does that in ALL FOUR QUARTERS?  If they did not do it in the 2nd quarter like you instructed, how could you allow them to not do it again in the 3rd quarter?

    If I'm able to sit on my couch and scream "GO TO THE RIM" during the 2nd and 3rd quarters, why can't Doc tell the guys in the time outs the same thing and have them do it?

    If I'm able to sit on my couch and scream "MORE PRESSURE DEFENSE" during the 3rd quarter, why can't Doc tell the guys in the time outs the same thing and have them do it?

    I just cannot believe that, all of a sudden, the players listened to Doc's instruction and implemented it in the 4th quarter.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jslot38. Show jslot38's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    acie, I said this on another thread about Doc's coaching. Doc's instruction to the team must NOT be getting through  If I'm able to sit on my couch and scream "GO TO THE RIM" during the 2nd and 3rd quarters, why can't Doc tell the guys in the time outs the same thing and have them do it?
    Posted by Petey62

    There is a difference between wanting it, listening to it, and executing it. The coach can scream as long as he wants, and the players can even try it. But if the jumpers don't fall, then execution is lacking - not instruction. These are professionals, we aren't talking about a coach teaching form, we are talking about him devising strategies for his team to execute, and hopefully win with. If the strategy is to drive to the hoop, we can all yell as much as we want about it, but the guys still need to do it. 



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    jslot38, my point is that the coach has to instruct them NOT to take the perimeter shots BECAUSE they are not falling.

    If Doc is instructing them to "GO TO THE RIM" yet they continue to jack up perimeter jump shots, that's not "execution".  And those players don't need to be on the court.

    During the 2nd and 3rd quarter, you cannot tell me that Doc was "devising strategies" to continue hoisting up jump shots rather than being more aggressive and going to the rim?

    Also, you don't have to necessarily "devise a strategy" to be aggressive and go to the rim.  We continued to shoot jumper after jumper after jumper with no success.  Initially that's on the players lack of execution as well as the shots just not falling.  However, after a couple of timeouts, it becomes coaching when they stick to a failed game plan of shooting jump shots that aren't falling.

    It's called in-game adjustments and that's what coaches and teams do during games.  They don't stick to the plan in hopes (like the 4th quarter) that things eventually turn around for the better.

    Pietrus attacked the rim on his first touch and converted a layup.  He saw the ball go in and that gave him confidence to nail some 3-pointers.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jslot38. Show jslot38's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Petey62: You are right... it's a failure of execution. Still the coach isn't the one failing to execute. I know it's not the popular opinion especially in feverous sport's cities like ours, but I truly feel that coach's get thrown under the bus in professional sports far too often. Former player's talk about that all the time. But radio hosts and coach quarterbacks disagree. 

    If the player and coach connection isn't working, if player's don't respect a coach, or need a new voice to motivate them, then the easy solution for an organization is to fire the coach. But really, these situations are usually painfully obvious. Just watch a team not making the playoffs 5 years in a row like the Celtics. It's one, almost always smaller contract, versus a bunch of players. BUT - to me that shows a lack of discipline and commitment on the part of the player's too. They have to want it, they have to want to listen to the coach, and then execute. These guys know how it works, just like you and I do - blaming the coach is the EASY way out.

    "If Doc is instructing them to "GO TO THE RIM" yet they continue to jack up perimeter jump shots, that's not "execution". And those players don't need to be on the court."

    How deep do you think this team really is? Not to mention the guy who was committing this offense the most, Brandon Bass, who had 15 shots in the first half, didn't have a shot in the second half and wasn't on the court. 

    They aren't going to the rim not because of Doc, it's because Pierce is hurt and can't be effective doing it, he can't get the room - KG is being doubled, Bradley was out the disasterous third quarter, Allen is hurt (and actually still did drive). Rondo... yeah no excuses here.




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    You make very valid points.  I think this team is deep enough though.  Players like Marquis, Dooling, Sasha and Pietrus are playoff-tested veterans who can provide quality minutes.  As a matter of fact, I thought Dooling's defense in the 4th quarter provided a spark that helped bring us back.

    And Pietrus appeared to be coming out of his funk just as Doc substituted him to bring Pierce back in.  I honestly believe that was a bad decision.

    I'd much rather have Hollins' energy and production than Bass hoisting up and missing jump shots ALL WHILE still being a liability on the defensive end.  The ONLY thing Bass does is shoot the mid-range jumper.  That's it.  That's the main reason why he doesn't rebound - it's because he never close enough to the basket to be an effective rebounder.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jslot38. Show jslot38's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Petey62: Agree 100% on your analysis on Bass. Unfortunately the other guys aren't filling that rebounding void. I think there was only 1 rebound between Steamer and Hollins in a combined 25 minutes last night. That is so painfully bad. 


    Finn does a good job pointing out just how much this team relies on Pierce, and how his inability to drive to the hoop is effecting the whole offense. 

    I agree with you, Doc seemed to take out Pietrus just as he was getting hot. Hot and Pietrus is something we haven't said these playoffs, would have been nice to at least try and ride that wave. If he jacked up 2-3 more and they didn't fall and it was just a flash in the pan, then go ahead and put Pierce back in.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    Petey62: Agree 100% on your analysis on Bass. Unfortunately the other guys aren't filling that rebounding void. I think there was only 1 rebound between Steamer and Hollins in a combined 25 minutes last night. That is so painfully bad.  http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2012/05/paul_pierce_celtics_arent_righ.html Finn does a good job pointing out just how much this team relies on Pierce, and how his inability to drive to the hoop is effecting the whole offense.  I agree with you, Doc seemed to take out Pietrus just as he was getting hot. Hot and Pietrus is something we haven't said these playoffs, would have been nice to at least try and ride that wave. If he jacked up 2-3 more and they didn't fall and it was just a flash in the pan, then go ahead and put Pierce back in.
    Posted by jslot38

    I would like to see more of Hollins because he can disrupt the other team's offense.  He brings alot of energy and has the ability to play decent defense.  I mean, I can't ever recall Bass taking a charge on the perimeter out in space like Hollins did.

    If Hollins focused more on getting down low and using that length and athleticism, I'm confident he could grab some boards.  And we'd have to take advantage of him running the floor to get easy, high percentage baskets.

    And I totally agree with that second thought.  I could not understand why he was being replaced then.  If we could have rode Pietrus for another 2 or 3 possessions and solid defense with him, I think that puts us in a better position.

    Who knows, it may all be moot tomorrow because our shots may miraculously start to fall.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    Doc was as much a failure as his team was. Too let them continue taking jumpshots that were not falling is on him. Call a time-out. Get on them for lack of taking the ball inside. Stop settling for something that is not working. To only attempt 9 free throws says plenty about their failure as a team(including Doc). And then to take out the hot hand, that was just asi-9, asiten, asieven, asitwelve.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    and by the way, no way Pierce was going to put that in. Did you see how ugly that shot(his legs flailing) was while whistle blew. He is clearly hurting. Doc once again might be loyal to a fault.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SFBostonFan. Show SFBostonFan's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    HERE'S ANOTHER REAL CONCERN...WE MAY WIN BUT I FEEL WE NEEDED TO DO IT IN 5 AND NOT MORE THAN 6 !!!  IF IT TAKES 7, GONNA BE REAL TOUGH TO COMPETE WITH ENERGIZED LEBRON & WADE !!!

    THE REASON: TIME FOR SOME WOUNDS TO HEAL & OLD LEGS TO GET REINVIGORATED !!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

     So who took the most shots for the Celtics last night? If your answer is one of the "Big Three" you'd be wrong. Bass took the most and went 5-15 last night and many of those misses were wide-open jumpers. I find it hard to believe that that's who Doc wants taking the most shots.
     Some folks have complained that we weren't taking it to the rim, but I remember that Rondo drove to the rim at least a half dozen times in the 1st half and dished to open shooters who couldn't come close. And then we put in Dooling, our pretend-point guard, who has got to be the worst back-up point guard in the history of the game for a totally unproductive 12 minutes. And how come Doc waits til the 4th quarter to run the plays through KG?
     My take is that we got killed on the boards 47-36, many of those were Philly offensive rebounds, and turned the ball over way too many times (17). That's got to be one of the ugliest games in Celtics history. Glad it's out of their system---at least I hope it is!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    We picked a real bad time to come out flat. PP seems like he's forcing things to compensate for his knee. We will win this series but we made it alot harder on ourselves last night. It's hard to realize that as good as these guys are and as much as they get paid that doesn't exclude them from the fact that they are human and I know somedays you just don't got it for what ever reason. I have those days and I'm hoping that that was the case us last night
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots

    In Response to Re: Ugly Loss: Too many Jumpshots:
    acie, I said this on another thread about Doc's coaching. Doc's instruction to the team must NOT be getting through if we continued to settle for the perimeter jumpers in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.  To score 24 points in the 2nd and 3rd quarters combined and then score 32 points in the 4th brings into question what kind of coaching Doc was doing in those middle quarters. It baffles me how he then gets in the post-game interview and says we moved the ball and made the extra pass in the 4th quarter but did not in the 2nd and 3rd quarters.  Well, isn't that YOUR JOB to make sure the team does that in ALL FOUR QUARTERS?  If they did not do it in the 2nd quarter like you instructed, how could you allow them to not do it again in the 3rd quarter? If I'm able to sit on my couch and scream "GO TO THE RIM" during the 2nd and 3rd quarters, why can't Doc tell the guys in the time outs the same thing and have them do it? If I'm able to sit on my couch and scream "MORE PRESSURE DEFENSE" during the 3rd quarter, why can't Doc tell the guys in the time outs the same thing and have them do it? I just cannot believe that, all of a sudden, the players listened to Doc's instruction and implemented it in the 4th quarter.
    Posted by Petey62


    i am right with you 100%? 

    so are you positing the theory that this team is on auto-pilot and does what the big 3 want them to do and WHEN they want to do it and have tuned out Rivers?

    this crap play against PHI, although harder to watch, is really just more of the same that we did against ATL to make things really hard on ourselves and none of that made any sense either.

    but this entire HALF of a game played like stoned zombies last night......  dammit that was revealing....  so what you say....  unfortunately i think they might have tuned doc out due to a lot of what he says being incredibly repetitive and nearly the same words over and over again, kind of like wolf blitzer.
     
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