Vet minimum centers possibly?

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from debrit. Show debrit's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    I'd like to add Foster and Murphy to the PF/C rotation. I just have a hard time believing Murphy isn't better than he showed us. I believe Jeff is also better than he showed, too. (However, his tentative traits make for a heartbreak player come playoff season.)
    Posted by DaCeltics

    Appears to me that Doc does not like Murphy.He had no chance last year.I believe he could help the celtics.
     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    I'm not all over the place ... I have five spots I'd like to see the C's upgrade via trade or exception as backups or starters. PG: Barea SG: Crawford (or Smith or Stevenson) PF: West or Humphries  C: Brown & Foster I don't care which ones they get or how they get them ... that's what I think we need and if Ainge is able to land any of these guys or some how pry a Gasol or Hawes from their current team that would be better than Brown & Foster combined. Four or five players with the MLE, BAE, S&T and VM is doable it's just a matter of who and with what.
    Posted by Mployee8


    The point in we have ONE tool... the MLE... to use any any ONE of those guys

    so it is stupid to sign anything but a big man when we can have the other 4 positions covered easily if we just keep West and Baby
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ConnectingRod. Show ConnectingRod's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    It won't be long now before rameakap will be accused of being Fierce34. LOL
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    It won't be long now before rameakap will be accused of being Fierce34. LOL
    Posted by ConnectingRod


    Hey, I don't take offense to that, but I also don't waste my time with confronation unless it be my attacks directed towards the racist run during his pop in, say a shameful 1960's type thought and leave for 3 weeks baloney... I long ago put on ignore the NON-Fan haters like Dud and Puddin, who are lonely , hateful and here to stir up trouble.

    I am here to talk Celtics and mostly the ways to REALISTICALLY improve the team. Too many posters here, like Acie, employee and worst of all DaCeltics, are just not well versed in value and reality and throw around a dozen names or simply unrealstic ideas like nobody's business.

    I respect that they are actual fans, but Fierce and a good deal of others I could name if I had the time to search, actually have a grasp on what can, should and probably will be done. And any of the more exteme trade ideas, which I'll throw out once in awhile (I want Kaman) need to always have knowledge of the cap and make sense to both sides.
     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly? : But you dismiss the fact that it's premature to use the MLE on a center when it's clear that Ainge has Howard in his sights and most likely won't sign any short term fixes to anything but the BAE or VM unless an impact player can be had.  Sure we need bigs but there are plenty of serviceable centers for the short term while our core is depreciating daily ... SG/SF/PF. Hopefully the future of the SF spot will resolve itself with the eventual signing of Green but with KG and RA getting long in the tooth it makes sense to think of replacing those spots when you have options at hand to help transition to incoming youth. Scoring has been a problem with our aging core and Crawford would fill the gap from RA to Moore/???.  And, as you like Kaman, I like David West and see him as more important to the C's future than a mediocre center. The MLE and trades are the best/only assets we have to protect our core until they retire, get traded or resign as FA's in a backup role. Consider the possibilty of the Lakers vs the C's before the 2012 trading deadline vying for Howard as Orlando tries to salvage something rather than lose him to free agency. Orlando links Arenas with Howard ($37M) and the Lakers offer Gasol/Bynum/etc. Unless we have KG & RA available for trade bait we are out of it. And how can we offer them if we have no viable backups in hand?
    Posted by Mployee8


    I never dismissed anything of the sort.

    I have said multiple times it is a longshot to get Dalambert simply because he should want more than 1 year and Ainge's current moves suggest he won't give it to him.

    All of the guys mentioned recently such as Przybilla, Foster, Brown, etc may take a 1 year deal at  closer to the full MLE (5m?) over a 2-3 year deal of only 2-3 million a year... esp when we are a contender with open mins at the 5

    Where you get the opinion the MLE will not likely be used is beyond me... multi-year deal... prob not... but Ainge better use every possible asset to make the C's stronger for 1 more run next year
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    Fierce shut up about the bet, the guy made a stupid bet, 99% of us here knew he wouldn't honor it, and when he slunk back on the board it should have been laughed off, but you ruin conversations when you bring it up ALL THE TIME... it should be common knowledge that you are a better and more intelligent fan than him but some here don't get that b/c of this silly little bet fight you continue to waste our time with.

    As for Howard..

    We BOTH talked WEEKS ago of using KG's (and Ray's if it came to that) exp deals in moves to get Howard since Orlando will likely try to dump as many of their awful deals as possible if they are forced to trade him and start over. Then our vet guy(s) can be bought-out to rejoin.

    That is nothing new, mployee is piggy-backing for sure
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    And there are two problems with David West:

    A. He opted out of 7-8 million, so he likely assumes to get more than the MLE that starts at 5m

    B. He will be out the first month of the year with ACL surgery and likely limited throughout the rest of the season... not at fill-strength till 12-13.

    Now he is DEF better than Baby (although about to turn 30)... and maybe by the playoffs would be healthy enough to actually outplay him (NOT Nov-Feb... Baby will be a better player those months)

    But.... he is a PF, so is KG, so is J. Johnson... Green can play PF too... NONE of them can be called a Center.

    So your David West idea assumes he will accept the MLE and that we can then S&T Baby for a center who split time with JON??

    Not high on my list of realistic situations.
     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from 21st. Show 21st's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly? : Let's look at West from a different perspective. In a potential lockout season he could have had guaranteed $ when play resumed and be a FA next year but turned that down. This, knowing that he would be recuperating from surgery too! So what advantage does he obtain from becoming a FA now? Will he make more $ under the new CBA? Will another team risk a big contract on a player untested since surgery and pay big money in year one for someone that may not be on the floor till Jan or Feb or later? Most likely he and his agent felt that the future of NO was in question and a sinking ship with all the Chris Paul speculation. Why stay when he could at least play for a contender even if only for a shortened year? Then, once he's proven that his surgery isn't an issue he can sign longer term for a team and $ that he wants. He hasn't lost or gained a thing by opting out so far other than being paid while recuperating should the lockout be resolved quicker than expected. Why not take pro-rata MLE for a few months if it may get you a championship and then get you that last big contract? Or, see if a S&T is doable with NO and another team. He can win on both accounts ... that's my take and if that happens then we'd have KG, DW & Johnson at PF. I'd leave Green alone at the SF to fully develop in his natural position rather than trying to keep him in that combo player mode for now. KG can play some center depending upon the opponent as well. I'm not predicting that this is gonna happen but just as it's Danny's responsibility to try to get Howard it's also his job to talk to West/Agent and see if they'd be interested in playing out the shortened season here. If West does make a nice return and proves that he can fill KG's sneakers then that gives Ainge the ability to use KG for trade bait. I don't know what the NBA will do with the NO franchise but it's in their best interest to keep the team stocked with players unless they decide to shuttle the NO franchise completely. In that case, Stern would be better off working a S&T for West getting back Davis/Bradley/TE and everyone wins ... Davis, Celtics, NO and West. If Stern can't/won't do a S&T (or gets a better offer) then all we have to offer is MLE and then it's up to West. If a S&T is doable with NO then we still have the MLE to sign another player ... would Crawford, Richardson or Stevenson take that to play with KG, DW, PP, RA, & RR? You tell me ... ??? KG, JON and K Brown (BAE) with another big (Foster) that can play the 4/5 at VM would be fine for a shortened year and certainly capable of winning another championship. If it doesn't work then Danny has the luxury of being able to pursue Howard with multiple expiring contracts and the team will still be a contender sans KG & RA. PG: RR, Delonte West, ??? SG: RA, Crawford, Moore SF: PP, JG, ??? PF: KG, David West, Johnson -C: KG, JON, K Brown, Foster
    Posted by Mployee8


    When was the last time you said something that eventually came true? lol


    From what I've seen from you the last couple of months, it looks like something's wrong with your crystal ball.Laughing
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly? : Let's look at West from a different perspective. In a potential lockout season he could have had guaranteed $ when play resumed and be a FA next year but turned that down. This, knowing that he would be recuperating from surgery too! So what advantage does he obtain from becoming a FA now? Will he make more $ under the new CBA? Will another team risk a big contract on a player untested since surgery and pay big money in year one for someone that may not be on the floor till Jan or Feb or later? Most likely he and his agent felt that the future of NO was in question and a sinking ship with all the Chris Paul speculation. Why stay when he could at least play for a contender even if only for a shortened year? Then, once he's proven that his surgery isn't an issue he can sign longer term for a team and $ that he wants. He hasn't lost or gained a thing by opting out so far other than being paid while recuperating should the lockout be resolved quicker than expected. Why not take pro-rata MLE for a few months if it may get you a championship and then get you that last big contract? Or, see if a S&T is doable with NO and another team. He can win on both accounts ... that's my take and if that happens then we'd have KG, DW & Johnson at PF. I'd leave Green alone at the SF to fully develop in his natural position rather than trying to keep him in that combo player mode for now. KG can play some center depending upon the opponent as well. I'm not predicting that this is gonna happen but just as it's Danny's responsibility to try to get Howard it's also his job to talk to West/Agent and see if they'd be interested in playing out the shortened season here. If West does make a nice return and proves that he can fill KG's sneakers then that gives Ainge the ability to use KG for trade bait. I don't know what the NBA will do with the NO franchise but it's in their best interest to keep the team stocked with players unless they decide to shuttle the NO franchise completely. In that case, Stern would be better off working a S&T for West getting back Davis/Bradley/TE and everyone wins ... Davis, Celtics, NO and West. If Stern can't/won't do a S&T (or gets a better offer) then all we have to offer is MLE and then it's up to West. If a S&T is doable with NO then we still have the MLE to sign another player ... would Crawford, Richardson or Stevenson take that to play with KG, DW, PP, RA, & RR? You tell me ... ??? KG, JON and K Brown (BAE) with another big (Foster) that can play the 4/5 at VM would be fine for a shortened year and certainly capable of winning another championship. If it doesn't work then Danny has the luxury of being able to pursue Howard with multiple expiring contracts and the team will still be a contender sans KG & RA. PG: RR, Delonte West, ??? SG: RA, Crawford, Moore SF: PP, JG, ??? PF: KG, David West, Johnson -C: KG, JON, K Brown, Foster
    Posted by Mployee8


    There are too many unknown variables with this lockout to know what could or would happen with contracts yet.

    If the LLE is still in play I think it could get us a player like Foster. sure. But it may be gone.

    Kwame earned himself 3-4 million a year that I am sure of. He is not getting the vet minimum again.

    To me, West did something foolish...recover in NO for 8m and then hit pay day in 2012 for another club. If he wants to recover on our club or another contender for 5 million and a title shot just to be away from the NO circus, well thats noble of him, is it really worth 3 million?

    The point still remains that we have FOUR guys in the mix at PF right now (KG, Baby, Johnson, Green) and ONE injury risk Center in Jermaine.

    People always overpay for size and that is what we need, the MLE is the most likely answer.

    I just don't think these are that realistic options. 3-4 million a year big men come here for 1-2 million. MLE guys who want 4 years (Craw/Stevenson) come here for 1 year? or Richardsson who prob deserves 4 years at 8-9 million a year.

    Then we just send Baby and Avery to the Hornets in a S&T for West? Well if its as EASY as you claim, sign me up for David West, Jamal Crawford and Kwame Brown for Baby/Avery, 1 year of the MLE and the vet min or LLE.

    I doubt it tho....

     
  16. This post has been removed.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    West is dreaming, but he's not a center anyway.  We NEED at least two to back up JON this year (assuming we don't count baby or JJJ).  I still like the combo of Aaron Gray and Kwame Brown, since they don't need to score anyway!
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In a shortened season it makes no sense for a decent player to sign with a loser just for more money when he can play for a contender ... none of the contenders have more than the MLE available to them. That puts us in the mix for a player willing to play out the shortened season and then look for a LT deal ... maybe even with us. This is what the CBS report said about West on their 40 top FA's: " West opted out and enter[ed] free agency, presumably to attempt to get a front-loaded contract before any CBA restrictions drive down his long-term value." Is that gonna work now?
    Posted by Mployee8


    Who knows

    it certainly says nothing along the lines of: 'West hated New Orleans so much and wants a title so bad that he will leave 3 million on the table along with multiple long-term well paying deals after the lockout to play for a contender at 1 year and 5 million'

    Cuz thats what you seem to think he'll do.... or that Stern is going to scramble after a new CBA is decided to help make some Baby/Avery for West sign and trade happen to help a team he hates (examples of Stern celtic hate: Reggie Lewis salary weighed down our cap for years after he died, 2010 finals officiating, lotto rigged for Knicks to get Ewing but not for Celts to get Duncan:D)

    West will be 31 in 2012 so when you start worrying about losing KG, he will have had major knee surgery and be older than the healthy KG we traded for in 07. When he was in his prime in his 20's with CP3, Chandler/Okafor and Peja/Ariza his team was just a 2nd rd playoff club, never a real threat.

    Put an older less effective West with Rondo, Pierce (age 35) and Green and do you think we'll be any better than the 08-11 Hornets?

    If we had a Center like Kaman or someone else decent we traded our assets on we could be BETTER with Baby/Johnson and some Jeff Green, all in their 20's at PF... then West in his 30's.
     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly? : You know for a fact that he will get multiple well paying long term deals already? For what teams? You see who's under the cap lately? You got bigger issues with Stern than me ... NY (???) But NO has no ownership and the NBA has to maintain that team until a new owner is found. They can't sit back and let all there FA's walk away ... whoever is the acting GM has to try and get something for those players in return and Ainge would be foolish if he wasn't exploring the opportunity until it becomes a deadend. That's not "predicting" ... that's pointing out that there's an opportunity and a means for the C's to acquire a player that can help them come playoff time and possibly a few years through their transition. Over the last four years, Kaman ( who will be 30 in April 12' ) has averaged 49 games per year ... and for two of those seasons he didn't play more than 32 games. Sounds like the next JON. Baby/Johnson/Green at PF is a prescription for failure .... Who you kidding?
    Posted by Mployee8


    Whatever, now that my thoughtful and factual posts haven't changed your position all I can say is we shall both wait and see.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FlobusMcNugget. Show FlobusMcNugget's posts

    Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?

    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly?:
    In Response to Re: Vet minimum centers possibly? : Agreed, I don't want West.  Would rather have Baby, and I don't want him....:) Also strongly agree that Stern hates the Celtics.  We need to do research and see if Petrovic's salary came off the books for the Nets - also agree the lottery is fixed- SAS, HOU, NYK, CLE (TWICE - once to get MeBron, and last year), SEA and POR - just off the top of my head...LAL has won the lottery twice, while BOS has never had the #1 pick.  I wonder if Worthy had died the night after the draft what Stern would have done..................
    Posted by Red-16Russ-11

    Those opinions are starting to sound like conspiracies, Red...
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share