WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Ray Allen deserves the love. He is one of the classiest, team players ever. He WAS the most prolific 3-pt shooter ever! No, he's not dead, just DONE. He can't shoot with consistancy any more, plays average D, is a turnover machine if left with the ball for too long, and is no longer the "decoy" he once was. AB is head and shoulders above Ray as an all around NBA player now, ankle or no ankle. I hope AB is back for the next round, cuz if not, we go 4.5 against 5 in the next round. FACT!!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrJohnnyMost. Show MrJohnnyMost's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    I don't think it's all on Ray.

    It's just that when you add him to KG, PP, and BB, you have 4 guys that aren't going to get a loose ball. They'll battle, I'm not questioning their effort, it's just their footspeed.

    AB playing with Rondo was the cure for this. Without Bradley, we're a slow team once again. It's his absence that worries me.

    Avery Bradley is crucial to our title hopes.

    Who'd have thunk it???

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gasthoerer. Show Gasthoerer's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    This is pure hate. Ray is injured, has no lift and therefore his shooting mechanics are off, that is the only valid point you have. By the way he just came from a career year from the 3 point line! He is playing great defense this postseason (outstanding last game, below average the game before) and has very low turnovers per game/minute (last game and all season).

    Again: Do you watch the games or check any stats? Or do you just hate on Ray?

    He was credited several times during the last game for his defense and his passing/spacing.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from krismk. Show krismk's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Ray has a few more daggers, in his cloak of agelessness, to throw this season.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    In Response to Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!:
    [QUOTE]This is pure hate. Ray is injured, has no lift and therefore his shooting mechanics are off, that is the only valid point you have. By the way he just came from a career year from the 3 point line! He is playing great defense this postseason (outstanding last game, below average the game before) and has very low turnovers per game/minute (last game and all season). Again: Do you watch the games or check any stats? Or do you just hate on Ray? He was credited several times during the last game for his defense and his passing/spacing.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]
    Come on gas you know damn well no Boston fan of any sport needs to have facts to back them up. They are so smart facts are only for others who really want to know the truth.Wink
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Ray's not done but we do run a risk that Doc will overplay him out of veteran loyalty rather than using him in a targeted way that helps the team. 

    "Avery Bradley is crucial to our title hopes."

    yup. And since it looks like he won't get healthy until the offseason, I don't see title hopes of any kind. Not unless he is 100 percent. I do think, however, we can get to the finals to either get our butts kicked by the Spurs or to have a halfway decent series against OKC. With Bradley at 100 percent, I'd say anything is still possible. Get well Avery!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Done.  At least until he has a 26 point game and saves our _ss in one of the Miami games.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    In Response to Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!:
    [QUOTE]This is pure hate. Ray is injured, has no lift and therefore his shooting mechanics are off, that is the only valid point you have. By the way he just came from a career year from the 3 point line! He is playing great defense this postseason (outstanding last game, below average the game before) and has very low turnovers per game/minute (last game and all season). Again: Do you watch the games or check any stats? Or do you just hate on Ray? He was credited several times during the last game for his defense and his passing/spacing.
    Posted by Gasthoerer[/QUOTE]

    + 1.

    Yes, Ray is slow a foot.....but we knew that the issue with the bone spurs would prevent jumping and lateral movement.  He doesn't even go up on his feet when shooting free throws.  All of Ray's mechanics are off, yet he's giving it 100% while in pain.  Did you see him sitting on the bench winching in pain?  

    I give Ray massive kudos for doing whatever he can do.  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    He is playing with bone spurs in his ankles.  Most people wouldn't want to walk with those - never mind play NBA basketball.

    he will be back next year after surgery just fine. 

    This year - try to enjoy how tough the guy is.

    Jeesh, it's like ripping Kevin McHale for playing the playoffs with a screw in his foot.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Ray's playing on heart now.
    We need somebody else from the bench to step up for Game 6.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Agree with all of you that Ray is playing with an injury and you have to give him credit for playing at all. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pancakespwn. Show Pancakespwn's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    The ankle is affecting him more than he is actually letting on. The injury itself sounds terrible. For him to be running on it as much as he is probably wears on him and then jumping and lifting off it which is fundamental for him its tough.

    Just think about I think it was the shot in this series against the Sixers where he shot from corner three and he hit the backboard. Ray could be 40 and still play. His body is a piece of art. He just happens to have a dangerously bad injury right now and hes fighting through it because he loves this team.

    We need him really to just even be on the floor even if hes jogging. His offense is needed.
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Whatever Ray's condition he needs to play less and Doc needs to try Pietrus and Pavlovic.  Defense and toughness will be more important in this game tonight,

    This does not mean that Ray should not be there in spots and try and see if he can get going.

    Doc has to see that Ray is hurting them on defense. Give the able tough bodies a shot Doc!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptChris. Show CaptChris's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Never let the FACTS get in the way of your OPINIONS!

    Think PP, Bradley, Bass, Rondo or any incoming Celtic would like to be done like Ray Allen?

    Before his ankles knocked out his lift, Ray shot 49% FG  --  45% "3" 's  --  92% FS for the season.  He fell to 43% FG  --  28% "3" 's  --  60% FS.

    He had both ankles operated on for bone spurs in 2007.  How did he play after that?  He will be one of the most pursued Free Agents this year.

    If you think that Ray is  a little off because of his lack of balance on his shots, you should have seen Bill Sharman.  He had to have everything Perfect to be effective.  If he didn't go the bathroom on time  --  bad game.  Scott Wedman had to have the same things to eat to shoot well.

    Ray has to be able to shoot for 3 hours before a game.  Requires good feet to do that.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Half of the team are injured.  Boston just have no choice.  You are not going to play Palavic, Pietrus, Bass, etc all in the same time.  All they do is stand around waiting for a ball in their hand.  Allen does many things including he can dribble the ball around and find an open man. You need to have more than one ball handler in the line up.  Rondo can not just do everything for the team.  He need a break occassionally.  That is why Allen is still playing. Come on, Allen have played good defense on the other nite.  It is not like a guy pour 30 to 40 points against Ray.  

    Also Allen is never the last player down the court for defense.  He is either the first one to the third person getting back on defense.  It is unlike Lebron or Wade or Kobe missing the shot at the same time they spend a little time whining at the referees looking for a foul call.  And they tend to be the last person to get back on defense.  Allen dont do that. 

    Talking about going after loose ball, only Rondo would dare to dive for the loose ball while all others just dont do it.  Therefore Allen is not the only guy not doing it.  But the main problem is the rebounding.  Post players for the Celtics are not properly in the right spot for the rebound.  That is why these miss rebound become loose balll.   Dont blame Allen for that.  Blame mostly on post players!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Anyone ever had bone spurs?  I have.  Ray may be limited in his contributions this postseason because to him it feels like he's running around with ice picks lodged in his ankles.  Bad timing, but he's trying to gut it out.  He will get surgery and play at least 1-2 more years, probably somewhere else, without a doubt. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    IMO, this is not the series to grind it out with Ray.  A hobbled Ray is marginally better if not worse than combination of healthy Pietrus/Pavlovic/Marquis.  Rest him and maybe he gets a little more healthy later on the following weeks.  We can beat the sixers if the rest of the team and the other stars playing up to their usual potential.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Benching Ray is nuts. Go to celticshub.com and watch the video of the spacing he creates. His man NEVER EVER LEAVES HIM. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bird-to-DJ. Show Bird-to-DJ's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Let's concede that MP is a better defender the RA and that for one possession of defense you'd rather have MP on the floor...  But the vitriol of some on this board is insane...  let's actually have some playoff stats - and remember this is RA playing hurt...

    RA is playing twice as many minutes as MP.

    He has 3x as many rebounds (imagine that - counterintuitive that the shorter, older, injured player has more rebounds per minute...

    He has a 13-1 assist lead... 13-1...!!!!

    He has taken 3x as many FT's... Yes, several are of the technical foul variety, but MP has only 6 FTA the entire playoffs...

    Oh, btw, RA is obviously struggling with his shot but he is still shooting it better than MP...

    IMO, RA is certainly struggling on defense but not to the degree that many on this board think; RR, PP, others all are getting beaten on ball screen situations creating team rotation/close-outs problems, particularly without a major shot blocker behind them... It's not as simple as some like to state.

    Lastly, I like the people that say RA is only a decoy on offense...  The 76ers certianbly don't think he's a decoy or they wouldn't be guarding him; and if they weren't guarding him, I suspecthe'd still be shooting it well...  Again RA has played 2x MP minutes but taken 40 3's in contrast to 29 for MP and several of RA's were of the end of game force it type...  To use an old coaching adage there is a reason that MP gets easier and more frequent open 3's than RA... that's the defensive plan!  When RA is on the floor, the defense stays glued to him greatly assisting offensive floor spacing - that basically allows the rest of the team to play 4-on-4 (hence the decoy perception) which is to our advantage.  Real simple - when MP comes onto the floor, the 76ers help defense improves as MP simply doesn't stress/scare them like RA...

    I am in a greement with those that say we are a better team (not better offensively) with AB than an injured RA...  I will agree on a one possession basis that we are better defensively with MP... but I question (and the stats question) the assertion of this thread that we are a better team with MP (or Pavlovic, ugghh!!!) on the floor than RA.

    RA remains the much more effective offensive player for team basketball (spacing, decision, passing...) and, as has been the case the last three post-season, our offense is of greater concern than our defense... We score 85+ points and we are 6-1; score below 85 points 1-3.  We have only given over 85points 4 times in 11 games (with PA playing 30mpg)...  You have to ask yourself where you need the most help and who can provide that with the least risk on the other end of the floor...

    This thread is emblematic of my ongoing frustration with this board - it is overwhelmingly assertion and very little discussion.  Here's my attempt to be part of the latter...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    In Response to Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!:
    [QUOTE]Let's concede that MP is a better defender the RA and that for one possession of defense you'd rather have MP on the floor...  But the vitriol of some on this board is insane...  let's actually have some playoff stats - and remember this is RA playing  hurt ... RA is playing twice as many minutes as MP. He has 3x as many rebounds (imagine that - counterintuitive that the shorter, older, injured player has more rebounds per minute... He has a 13-1 assist lead... 13-1...!!!! He has taken 3x as many FT's... Yes, several are of the technical foul variety, but MP has only 6 FTA the entire playoffs... Oh, btw, RA is obviously struggling with his shot but he is still shooting it better than MP... IMO, RA is certainly struggling on defense but not to the degree that many on this board think; RR, PP, others all are getting beaten on ball screen situations creating team rotation/close-outs problems, particularly without a major shot blocker behind them... It's not as simple as some like to state. Lastly, I like the people that say RA is only a decoy on offense...  The 76ers certianbly don't think he's a decoy or they wouldn't be guarding him; and if they weren't guarding him, I suspecthe'd still be shooting it well...  Again RA has played 2x MP minutes but taken 40 3's in contrast to 29 for MP and several of RA's were of the end of game force it type...  To use an old coaching adage there is a reason that MP gets easier and more frequent open 3's than RA... that's the defensive plan!  When RA is on the floor, the defense stays glued to him greatly assisting offensive floor spacing - that basically allows the rest of the team to play 4-on-4 (hence the decoy perception) which is to our advantage.  Real simple - when MP comes onto the floor, the 76ers help defense improves as MP simply doesn't stress/scare them like RA... I am in a greement with those that say we are a better team (not better offensively) with AB than an injured RA...  I will agree on a one possession basis that we are better defensively with MP... but I question (and the stats question) the assertion of this thread that we are a better team with MP (or Pavlovic, ugghh!!!) on the floor than RA. RA remains the much more effective offensive player for team basketball (spacing, decision, passing...) and, as has been the case the last three post-season, our offense is of greater concern than our defense... We score 85+ points and we are 6-1; score below 85 points 1-3.  We have only given over 85points 4 times in 11 games (with PA playing 30mpg)...  You have to ask yourself where you need the most help and who can provide that with the least risk on the other end of the floor... This thread is emblematic of my ongoing frustration with this board - it is overwhelmingly assertion and very little discussion.  Here's my attempt to be part of the latter...
    Posted by Bird-to-DJ[/QUOTE]


    Great post. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from walk2run. Show walk2run's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Well hopefully Ray will turn back the clock tonight and have one of those nights.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from CAPITALIST_AVENGER. Show CAPITALIST_AVENGER's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    ray is far from done. once he cleans up that ankle, he will be back like he was in 2007 after the initial surgery. he slumped like this 2006 as well. ray needs his legs to make his shot consistently. he will be in huge demand next off-season. miami, okc, lakers and others will all be dialing with at least $8m offers plus a guaranteed starter position. he aint coming off no bench. i see 3 years at 25m.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: WE ALL LOVE RAY, but RAY ALLEN IS DONE!

    Again it is not the offense that is the problem.  It is the defense, ala game 4 collapse.  I don't see an unfair vitriol here, it is a difference in opinion and philosophy.  If MP is not getting the shots, then more shots will go to KG/Pierce/Bass/Rondo.  MP is there more for defense.  And I don't know where you get your stat from but what is the stat for last 3-4 games where RA is very hurt?
     
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