What are Garnett and Allen worth?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    I hope we don't trade these guys and are able to re-sign them at fair value. They may not be a nucleus of a contender by themselves anymore, but they make great depth on any roster.

    Allen could be 6th man of the year material next year, like a Jason Terry of years passed. I'd say he's worth 8 million next year, and some other team will pay that if we don't. Perk makes about that much.

    Garnett should still be above average starter quality next year, and his experience and leadership/motivational skills add value to his teammates. 11 or 12 million is probably a decent value, plus the continuity factor.

    It will be a challenge to recruit comparably productive free agents to Boston, and we would still have cap room for one star or two above average players like Jeff Green.

    Garnett and Allen have probably declined past the stage that Bird was at when Ainge says that he would have traded Bird in the early 90's. Nobody is knocking the door down to trade for Garnett or for Allen.

    We might as well re-sign them and build through the 2012 draft and FA.
     
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    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4690169/ten-trends-that-describe-the-celts-slide

    5. KG still a difference-maker:
    Despite speculation that Kevin Garnett is losing his edge, it’s clear that the former MVP still has a profound impact.

    The Celtics are over 10 points better per 48 minutes with Garnett on the court and have been dominated in the paint without him.
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : Your thread is about KG's worth, not about KG's impact.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    My thread, poorly titled, is about their projected salaries next season, and whether or not it makes sense to pay them market value. KG's impact and projected impact next year are a big part of that discussion.

    Change for the sake of change won't improve anything.
     
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    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : If KG won't accept the vet's minimum then he's not worth keeping. Next year is a rebuilding year whether we like it or not.  As for Ray Allen, he will turn 37 in July, time to move on, give the playing time to the young players.
    Posted by Fiercest34



    What do you think our record would be if we had Kaman starting all season instead of Jermaine? What if we also had Jeff Green and Marshawn Brooks?

    Next year we could have Kaman or similar starting, Jeff Green, and Austin Rivers or Terrence Ross playing a Brooks-type role. 

    Limit Allen's minutes and back to back games, and he's still an efficient contributor to a contender.

    To say that Garnett is only worth the minimum is beyond melodramatic.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Accension13. Show Accension13's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    If KG wants to play next year, he could easily make 10-12 million somewhere. Players like kwame brown are making 7 mil. Don't know perk's yearly salary, but I know it's decent. A declining KG is still better than either of those players will ever be. A 7 footer with his skill will always have value. The only way he gets a vet min contract is if he accepts it so the team can sign other players
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    You don't have to sukkso bad you draft top 5 for many years to call it rebuilding.

    Just cause the C's sukk this year doesn't mean they have to sukk for 3-15 more years before being contenders again.

    The era of the Big 3 as centerpieces may be over, but that doesn't mean they can't be important parts of championship teams in lesser roles.

    Garnett being a poor value at 20 million doesn't mean he's only a good value at vet minimum salary.

    These guys just need more help and less minutes, all of which can be provided with cap space and hopefully decent draft picks.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : After 1987 the Celts tried not to sukk every year. It took 21 years to finally make it to the Finals again. There is no shortcut.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Bias, Lewis. Sh\t happens
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    "We need to develop young talent."

    Mo Williams, Vilianaueva, Ben Gordon's contract, etc.

    Sounds like the Chris Wallace rebuilding express.

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : If KG won't accept the vet's minimum then he's not worth keeping. Next year is a rebuilding year whether we like it or not.  As for Ray Allen, he will turn 37 in July, time to move on, give the playing time to the young players.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    If Ray and KG aren't traded this year, I would expect they might both become bench players next season.  As long as they both agree to a small contract, they are both worth keeping.   I also heard many times that KG could retire after the end of the season. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    I hope we don't trade these guys and are able to re-sign them at fair value. They may not be a nucleus of a contender by themselves anymore, but they make great depth on any roster. Allen could be 6th man of the year material next year, like a Jason Terry of years passed. I'd say he's worth 8 million next year, and some other team will pay that if we don't. Perk makes about that much. Garnett should still be above average starter quality next year, and his experience and leadership/motivational skills add value to his teammates. 11 or 12 million is probably a decent value, plus the continuity factor. It will be a challenge to recruit comparably productive free agents to Boston, and we would still have cap room for one star or two above average players like Jeff Green. Garnett and Allen have probably declined past the stage that Bird was at when Ainge says that he would have traded Bird in the early 90's. Nobody is knocking the door down to trade for Garnett or for Allen. We might as well re-sign them and build through the 2012 draft and FA.
    Posted by arodrambone


    Very good post. If that scenario worked out and they took less money, Ray agreed to come of the bench, I think that would be great. Only problem is would Doc use them less and develop a young player? I have a feeling Doc would continue to ride the big three instead of making them mid 20 minute players.
     
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    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : If we had Kaman at the start of the season then most probably we would be 3rd in the east right now. When you're rebuilding you don't hold on to the past. You go all in with the young guys if you're rebuilding. The Thunder went all in with Durant, Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka. They're a contender now. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Pure speculation and as much as I would like to agree with you I think your wrong on where we would be.  Kaman hasn't done a lot with the team he is on.  He lost with the Clips.  Kaman is a Role player.  A good one yes, a difference maker-NO.  You are over valuing Kaman big time.  Yes I would take him and he would help but he is not a savior.  The only reason OKC went  "all in" was number 1 they have 4 very talented player to do it with,, all about the same age.  It wasn't adding a new player year after year to get there. They were fortunate to get them all close together.  That scenario doesn't happen very often. How many times have the Bulls reloaded with young talent before it worked.  Remembe Curry, Chandler, Tyrus Thomas?
    Remember  Durant and Rose were both VERY HIGH  draft picks.  You very seldom get difference makers like them past the first couple picks.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    You don't have to sukkso bad you draft top 5 for many years to call it rebuilding. Just cause the C's sukk this year doesn't mean they have to sukk for 3-15 more years before being contenders again. The era of the Big 3 as centerpieces may be over, but that doesn't mean they can't be important parts of championship teams in lesser roles. Garnett being a poor value at 20 million doesn't mean he's only a good value at vet minimum salary. These guys just need more help and less minutes, all of which can be provided with cap space and hopefully decent draft picks.
    Posted by arodrambone


    Again good post.  You are correct in my opinion as well.  Things change and a lot of it is luck.
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : I was asked if instead of JO we had Kaman. My guess is we would be 3rd in the east. Kaman is averaging 11.6 ppg and 7.5 rpg. Big difference from JO's 5.0 ppg and 5.4 rpg. What I meant by OKC going all in was in 2007 when they traded their best player, Ray Allen, for the #5 pick. OKC didn't know they were going to get Westbrook and Ibaka in 2008. They sure didn't know they would get Harden in 2009. When they decided to go all in it was just Durant and Jeff Green.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Yes thats right.  The dominos don't fall like that very often.  If they did you woudn't see some team continually stay were they are in the standings. The Thunder were very lucky to get to high volume scorers in KD and Westbrook. You can talk defense all you want but if you can't put the ball in the hole your not going to win. Case in point is the C's this year. Our defense is still pretty good this year but we can't put it in the hole enough. Thats what we need is more scoring. The Thunder don't have much of a inside game and it might end up biting them but they take it to the hole a lot and shoot free throws at a high percentage. I think thats where Danny messes up on his drafting. We got to get faster and good shooters IMO. Defense is nice but a good scorer is going to score.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?

    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth?:
    In Response to Re: What are Garnett and Allen worth? : I agree with you, we need more scoring. But I get ridiculed if I say we replace Rondo and JO with Jennings and Kaman. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Personally I don't want Jennings e ither unless it is very cheap.  Kaman is the same.  I would take Kaman because he is big.  I just hope we can do better than those two. If we don't we will be in for some more bad years.  A perfect guard would be Avery if he handled the ball better and could create.  He has everything else I want from a PG.  He will get better handling the ball with experience but distributing the ball is one of those things that you either got it or you don't.  I don't know of any PG's that really had to learn how to distribute the ball.  Closest would be Billups.  He played defense and is a terrific shooter. Thats the reason he was successful as a PG. If he couldn't shoot no one would ever discuss Billups.
     
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