What could Ray Allen bring us??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    What could Ray Allen bring us??

    The rumors are starting...
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/703072-lebron-james-dwight-howard-kevin-durant-and-todays-top-nba-news-and-rumors/entry/82889-nba-trade-rumors-will-boston-celtics-shop-ray-allen#/articles/703072-lebron-james-dwight-howard-kevin-durant-and-todays-top-nba-news-and-rumors
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    Ray Allen for Taj Gibson or Asik. Do us a solid Thibs. RA and Rose would be a deadly backcourt.

    I can wish can't I. LOL! I don't think trading RA is a good idea. We already can't score it would be worse without him.
     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Laker-Nation32. Show Laker-Nation32's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    Why would boston trade smirk? After all, boston fans tell everyone it was the refs fault the celtics lost.

    Oh well, with snaq being largely injured at least Doc's starting five has yet to lose a series.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Getzo. Show Getzo's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    BTW.. What could Ray Allen bring us????? Umm how about contributing to achieving number 18????  If we could sign Jamal Crawford somehow someway.. which we can't, he'd be starting number at the 2.  Allen's shooting and his expiring contract is more important to free up salary in one year, while still having a sharp shooter.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    I dont see Ray getting traded but with DA, anything is possible.. Doc was quoted saying how the team was skrewed up with the late season trade... a message from DOc that DA looks past chemistry and continuity... so DA dumpin Ray is not far fetched

    Id like to keep Ray cause I think the best we'll get is draft choices.. Rays only destination will be to a contender and they arent gonna give up the important pieces for him..


     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]The time for trading Ray Allen already has passed. If Ray had value it was last season's trade deadline where Ray had a huge expiring contract. The Bulls already have Kyle Korver so Ray would just complicate things. And I don't think OKC would even trade James Harden for Ray. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    I agree that Ray Allen probably won't be traded this year.  I don't expect any of the big 3 to be traded this year, although, I am not sure how Danny is going to acquire any new players with our current salary cap and the limited cap space that the Celtics currently have.  This might get even worse if the salary cap is reduced with the new CBA. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    Hindsight says that Boston should have traded Ray Allen in 2009/10. May well have gotten a reasonable player in return. But I can't see the Celtics being able to move him.

    Celtics should bite the bullet and put Allen on the bench for next season. Will be deadly coming off the bench. Pierce to SG and Green to SF (where he belongs, not at PF where the Thunder played him).

    Oddly enough in the NBA2k11 game the Celtics always trade Ray Allen very early in 'the Association' mode. And they invariably get a decent young player for him.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]Hindsight says that Boston should have traded Ray Allen in 2009/10. May well have gotten a reasonable player in return. But I can't see the Celtics being able to move him. Celtics should bite the bullet and put Allen on the bench for next season. Will be deadly coming off the bench. Pierce to SG and Green to SF (where he belongs, not at PF where the Thunder played him). Oddly enough in the NBA2k11 game the Celtics always trade Ray Allen very early in 'the Association' mode. And they invariably get a decent young player for him.
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]


    Yep these are the moves to make. I've always thought Green was a better SF than PF. He's just not physical enough to play that position and the mismatches he creates aren't of a distinct advantage vs what they are at SF. He probably feels naturally better at the SF position becausee of his skills.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? : Yep these are the moves to make. I've always thought Green was a better SF than PF. He's just not physical enough to play that position and the mismatches he creates aren't of a distinct advantage vs what they are at SF. He probably feels naturally better at the SF position becausee of his skills.
    Posted by BiasLewis[/QUOTE]

    I am very concerned about these TRADE KG, WHAT CAN WE GET FOR RAY, TRADE PIERCE ideas are going to mean to the Cs.

    I think there is a mindset that it is some sort given or automatic magic that Danny can continue to win and rebuild at the same time.  I think it is impossible to do both.  You are either rebuilding or winning.

    There is some sort of weird thought process, I think simply because it is the Cs and Danny, that there are teams out there looking to give up really good young players for aging players with expiring contracts, as if that in some way will help those teams.  Well it will help them, how will it help them?  It will give them cap relief so those teams can get the players that posters want, while weighing down the Cs with players that do not prolong the winning.

    At some point posters / fans are going to have to accept getting really bad in order to have a chance at getting good.  I don't see anyway around it.

    But I am sure we will keep seeing all kinds of crazy trade ideas that vastly overvalue what the Cs are going to give up and vastly undervalue what they would be getting in return.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]The time for trading Ray Allen already has passed. If Ray had value it was last season's trade deadline where Ray had a huge expiring contract. The Bulls already have Kyle Korver so Ray would just complicate things. And I don't think OKC would even trade James Harden for Ray. 
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

     You are right on the money! If we had traded Ray when he had a huge expiring contract, we could have bought in someone like a, well, like a Danny Granger, but that ship has sailed, and it's time to move on. So i agree with you now is the time to think about moving Paul Pierce. We need to have as much cap room as possible when 2012 rolls around, and trading him for Rudy Gay doesn't help us in that aspect. So what if we traded him for OJ Mayo who is in the last year of his contract, Memphis would have to give us someone else to make the money work, and we would have more money to spend in 2012!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    paul should be coming off the bench for green. green starts at SF. paul isn't quick enough to play defense at the 2. no way, no how.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rajon-Hondo. Show Rajon-Hondo's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    The best way for RA to help us to resign for an amount that would give us some wiggle room cap wise. So we could go get a solid big like Tyson Chandler. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]paul should be coming off the bench for green. green starts at SF. paul isn't quick enough to play defense at the 2. no way, no how.
    Posted by kaktug[/QUOTE]

    Paul views himself as one of the best players in the league and has a personal chip on his shoulder that year after year players come along that keep him from being elevated to the absolute elite discussion.

    Paul would do all the right things and say all the right things but would be walking around with a big p oo p oo in his diaper.

    He doesn't stike me as the most mature guy around so I see zero circumstances where Paul comes off the bench.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MsLithium21. Show MsLithium21's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]The rumors are starting... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/703072-lebron-james-dwight-howard-kevin-durant-and-todays-top-nba-news-and-rumors/entry/82889-nba-trade-rumors-will-boston-celtics-shop-ray-allen#/articles/703072-lebron-james-dwight-howard-kevin-durant-and-todays-top-nba-news-and-rumors
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]

    I really hope this is just a rumor and that we do NOT trade Ray Allen.  First of all, he was one of two guys who never missed a game this season due to injury (the other was fellow "geriatric" Paul Pierce.)  Neither he nor the big 3 were the main problem, nor was it their age.  And notice I said MAIN problem.  I realize, rather begrudgingly, that age factored in.  But I feel the REAL issue was their lack of a consistent supporting cast all year due to an insane amount of injuries and a bunch of trades that now look insane but were at the time necessitated by such a high volume of injuries that we at one point had a 4 man bench of Davis, Wafer, Harangody and Bradley.  All of this caused people like Ray to play ridiculous minutes - by anyone's standards, let alone a 35 year old.  Ray was one of the few things that went RIGHT for us this year.  And while this is entirely conjecture, I think he held up better under the circumstances than most players 10 years his junior would have done.

    The other things is - and please don't call me naive or sentimental for saying this- he just publicly declared that he wants to play nowhere but here.  Not that he would like to stay here but he has to think of himself too (a la Perkins) or that he'd like to come back but wants to test the market to see if he can do better somewhere else (a la Davis twice in the past 3 years).  He says he's picking up his player option because he wants to play nowhere but here.  I realize that nearly anyone can be tradeable in the right deal, but if Ray picks up that player option and Danny winds up shopping him around, I will - to say the least - not be happy.  Not just for Ray's sake but because it would make me lose faith that we could sign or re-sign guys we WANT at a lower price than they'd get somewhere else.  If we're the kind of team that trades a player so openly and unconditionally loyal to us, where is our credibility?

    When Doc signed his contract extension, one of the things he cited was continuity - the fact that this team now has a coach and GM who have been here for a while and are not going anywhere.  He also cited how the midseason trades disrupted that continuity, and though I've mostly supported the trades I have to say he's right.  We need to develop a nucleus of players who define what it means today to be a Celtic.  Ray has earned the right to be one of those players, espescially with all I've heard about how he mentors and supports some of the younger guys.  This is also entirely conjecture, but I have a feeling that if it became obvious he needed to go to a reduced role for the good of the team, that he would do it.

    So if a tantalizing trade opportunity presents itself, yes, it should be looked into as it should with any player.  But for all the reasons I mentioned, I really don't think it's a good idea to shop Ray Allen around.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tayshawn. Show Tayshawn's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to What could Ray Allen bring us?? : I really hope this is just a rumor and that we do NOT trade Ray Allen.  First of all, he was one of two guys who never missed a game this season due to injury (the other was fellow "geriatric" Paul Pierce.)  Neither he nor the big 3 were the main problem, nor was it their age.  And notice I said MAIN problem.  I realize, rather begrudgingly, that age factored in.  But I feel the REAL issue was their lack of a consistent supporting cast all year due to an insane amount of injuries and a bunch of trades that now look insane but were at the time necessitated by such a high volume of injuries that we at one point had a 4 man bench of Davis, Wafer, Harangody and Bradley.  All of this caused people like Ray to play ridiculous minutes - by anyone's standards, let alone a 35 year old.  Ray was one of the few things that went RIGHT for us this year.  And while this is entirely conjecture, I think he held up better under the circumstances than most players 10 years his junior would have done. The other things is - and please don't call me naive or sentimental for saying this- he just publicly declared that he wants to play nowhere but here.  Not that he would like to stay here but he has to think of himself too (a la Perkins) or that he'd like to come back but wants to test the market to see if he can do better somewhere else (a la Davis twice in the past 3 years).  He says he's picking up his player option because he wants to play nowhere but here.  I realize that nearly anyone can be tradeable in the right deal, but if Ray picks up that player option and Danny winds up shopping him around, I will - to say the least - not be happy.  Not just for Ray's sake but because it would make me lose faith that we could sign or re-sign guys we WANT at a lower price than they'd get somewhere else.  If we're the kind of team that trades a player so openly and unconditionally loyal to us, where is our credibility? When Doc signed his contract extension, one of the things he cited was continuity - the fact that this team now has a coach and GM who have been here for a while and are not going anywhere.  He also cited how the midseason trades disrupted that continuity, and though I've mostly supported the trades I have to say he's right.  We need to develop a nucleus of players who define what it means today to be a Celtic.  Ray has earned the right to be one of those players, espescially with all I've heard about how he mentors and supports some of the younger guys.  This is also entirely conjecture, but I have a feeling that if it became obvious he needed to go to a reduced role for the good of the team, that he would do it. So if a tantalizing trade opportunity presents itself, yes, it should be looked into as it should with any player.  But for all the reasons I mentioned, I really don't think it's a good idea to shop Ray Allen around.
    Posted by MsLithium21[/QUOTE]

    At the end of the day, it is a business, so if the celtics are smart, they need to offload all of their players that belong in a nursing home. Cool
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? :  You are right on the money! If we had traded Ray when he had a huge expiring contract, we could have bought in someone like a, well, like a Danny Granger, but that ship has sailed, and it's time to move on. So i agree with you now is the time to think about moving Paul Pierce. We need to have as much cap room as possible when 2012 rolls around, and trading him for Rudy Gay doesn't help us in that aspect. So what if we traded him for OJ Mayo who is in the last year of his contract, Memphis would have to give us someone else to make the money work, and we would have more money to spend in 2012!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    Last year I proposed Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins for Ray and Kevin Martin for Rondo.  They would have had a very good young backcourt who could score with anyone and a good back up center that is a good shotblocker, etc.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? : Last year I proposed Monta Ellis and Andris Biedrins for Ray and Kevin Martin for Rondo.  They would have had a very good young backcourt who could score with anyone and a good back up center that is a good shotblocker, etc.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

     I would have loved having Ellis on the Celtic's. I believe Rondo will be shopped this off season!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? :  I would have loved having Ellis on the Celtic's. I believe Rondo will be shopped this off season!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    I don't see players with more than 1 year remaining on their contract going anywhere.  If the new cap is a hard cap at $58million, do you really want a point guard that can't shoot taking up almost 20% of your cap?

    I think expiring contract players could be moved but that means you are likely taking someone else's overrated players in return and they are taking your expiring contract so that they can get players that you ultimately want to get.

    Based on Danny's comments in his interview, Rondo is going nowhere.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    Im sure if there is a team out there with a young player that can contribute to the rebuilding phase (lets face it, we are there) why not? You have to consider it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MsLithium21. Show MsLithium21's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    See I'm not so sure we're there.  And I don't think I'm being overly optimistic at all, just looking at all the pieces...

    First of all, the Big 3 were almost 100% healthy.  The only one who had to actually sit out games due to injury was KG. 

    Most of the injuries were, ironically, to the younger guys.  All but the O'Neal Brothers were under 30:  Rondo, West, Baby, Wafer, Krstic - along with the 4 guys we were pretty much forced to trade because we were so hard hit:  Robinson, Erden, Daniels and of course Perkins at the time of the trades.

    I think the problem, therefore, was that they got worn down due to playing more minutes than anyone planned or hoped for.  Again, no consistent supporting cast due to injuries, which brought on the trade, which made the consistency problem worse, in part because the injuries kept coming.

    Another way to look at this, Ortiz, is that we may have 3 or even 4 big pieces of the future right here in Rondo, Green, West and Krstic.  Rondo can work on his outside shot, Green and West can learn from Pierce and Allen respectively and eventually (maybe by next season's end) be ready to replace them as starters with their "mentors" playing important roles off the bench.  And Krstic can learn our "system" and solidify his place as a reliable back-up.  It can happen.  Maybe not on most teams, but the Celtics players have been all about each other all year.  If any team's veterans are capable of passing the torch, ours are.  And the 4 guys I mentioned are all well under 30 and I don't think any of them has peaked yet.

    So at the beginning of the year we'd have this rotation...
    PG - Rondo
    SG - Allen
    SF - Pierce
    PF - Garnett
    C - best one available, whoever he is
    Bench - West (combo G), Green (SF), Krstic (C), Davis or an upgrade at PF

    Then by season's end, once the younger guys are ready, it could look like this:
    PG - Rondo
    SG - West
    SF - Green
    PF - Garnett (or, who knows, some young blood if he's ready)
    C - whoever that guy is I mentioned above
    Bench - Allen (SG, with West going to point when Rondo's out), Pierce (SF), Krstic (C)

    If nothing else, we'd have one of the fastest, most athletic 1-2-3 combos in the league!

    I realize it's best case scenario... But I'd hate to see any of those young guys we already have becoming the next Tony Allen with us wishing we'd paid them a little more or developed them better.  Again, I don't think any of them has peaked yet.  And I could see each one of them improving with the right combination of knowing our system better (Green, Krstic) and just stringing some consistent healthy minutes together (look how good West was once he had that chance against the Heat.)  All of which would give us the consistency to make Rondo's job easier, faciliating his growth.

    Your side merits consideration, but mine does too.  If we CAN create an organic passing of the torch, think of how much those young guys would learn from these future Hall of Famers, even after they've earned their minutes and starting roles.  And we'd be building on our current nucleus whose development was still in progress at this season's end.

    Just a few things to consider along with everything else... Smile
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    If we keep the big 3 then we better hope for an abbreviated year. These old battle horses are still skilled but have lost a step in speed and KG can barely elevate off the floor.  We would be lucky to make it past first round playoffs. 

    Ray is the last of the three that I would trade.
    As much as it would sadden me, trading PP is actually our best option.  We need to gradually rebuild and we bet our marbles on Green.  PP has too much value to come off the bench.  Use him to work a deal to secure an elite PF to rebuild and replace KG the following year.  We need Ray's offense and shooting and he is probably in the best shape of the three.  I honestly don't think we could get enough in return for an oft injured KG with noticably deteriorated skills and consistency, but he would be effective coming off the bench in limited minutes for one more year.         

    PP, Rondo and BB should fetch us a young high quality PF, PG and maybe a first round draft choice.   
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]If we keep the big 3 then we better hope for an abbreviated year. These old battle horses are still skilled but have lost a step in speed and KG can barely elevate off the floor.  We would be lucky to make it past first round playoffs.  Ray is the last of the three that I would trade. As much as it would sadden me, trading PP is actually our best option.  We need to gradually rebuild and we bet our marbles on Green.  PP has too much value to come off the bench.  Use him to work a deal to secure an elite PF to rebuild and replace KG the following year.  We need Ray's offense and shooting and he is probably in the best shape of the three.  I honestly don't think we could get enough in return for an oft injured KG with noticably deteriorated skills and consistency, but he would be effective coming off the bench in limited minutes for one more year.          PP, Rondo and BB should fetch us a young high quality PF, PG and maybe a first round draft choice.   
    Posted by Eldunker[/QUOTE]

    Trading Pierce is not the best option, trading players with more than one year left on their contract is not even a remote possibility let alone the best option.  Teams are not looking to add overpaid late in their career players when facing a new salary cap.  If you are a GM are you hopeful that your team can sign a player that has 3 years left on his contract and will consume 25% of your salary cap?

    KG and Ray are the only players that are even remotely close to being what one would be called trade bait.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]If we keep the big 3 then we better hope for an abbreviated year. These old battle horses are still skilled but have lost a step in speed and KG can barely elevate off the floor.  We would be lucky to make it past first round playoffs.  Ray is the last of the three that I would trade. As much as it would sadden me, trading PP is actually our best option.  We need to gradually rebuild and we bet our marbles on Green.  PP has too much value to come off the bench.  Use him to work a deal to secure an elite PF to rebuild and replace KG the following year.  We need Ray's offense and shooting and he is probably in the best shape of the three.  I honestly don't think we could get enough in return for an oft injured KG with noticably deteriorated skills and consistency, but he would be effective coming off the bench in limited minutes for one more year.          PP, Rondo and BB should fetch us a young high quality PF, PG and maybe a first round draft choice.   
    Posted by Eldunker[/QUOTE]

    p.s. regarding your last sentence - crack will rot your teeth and is still illegal, seek professional help with overcoming your problem.....
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eldunker. Show Eldunker's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    thank you for the excellent advice from one who should triple his medication for manic depressive disorder with ODD.
     
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