What could Ray Allen bring us??

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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    Ray had one of his best seasons this season.  His legs get tired from playing too many minutes which effects his jumper. It does to even young players. Ray is as good a conditioned athlete as one can be at 36, but he's still 36. His minutes need to be managed better. Doc is a good coach, but I've thought for the past few years that he's missed the boat on limiting Ray's minutes. This upcoming season will be even more important. Ray averaged major minutes again this season. If cut down 7 or 8 minutes a game, he'll be even more effective.
         Green is a good pick up for big minutes. I would like to see Wafer used more next season. He hasn't earned big minutes yet, but he needs more minutes to get into the rhythm of the game.  Delonte is also good for playing backup 2 guard as well as backup point. The backup point, 2 and 3 spots are solid IMO with Green, Wafer and Delonte. I may catch some flack here, but I've always liked Wafer's game. 
        Where the C's really need help this summer is in picking up one or 2 good rebounders. The C's rebounding this season was awful. Stats don't lie.
     
     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]See I'm not so sure we're there.  And I don't think I'm being overly optimistic at all, just looking at all the pieces... First of all, the Big 3 were almost 100% healthy.  The only one who had to actually sit out games due to injury was KG.  Most of the injuries were, ironically, to the younger guys.  All but the O'Neal Brothers were under 30:  Rondo, West, Baby, Wafer, Krstic - along with the 4 guys we were pretty much forced to trade because we were so hard hit:  Robinson, Erden, Daniels and of course Perkins at the time of the trades. I think the problem, therefore, was that they got worn down due to playing more minutes than anyone planned or hoped for.  Again, no consistent supporting cast due to injuries, which brought on the trade, which made the consistency problem worse, in part because the injuries kept coming. Another way to look at this, Ortiz, is that we may have 3 or even 4 big pieces of the future right here in Rondo, Green, West and Krstic.  Rondo can work on his outside shot, Green and West can learn from Pierce and Allen respectively and eventually (maybe by next season's end) be ready to replace them as starters with their "mentors" playing important roles off the bench.  And Krstic can learn our "system" and solidify his place as a reliable back-up.  It can happen.  Maybe not on most teams, but the Celtics players have been all about each other all year.  If any team's veterans are capable of passing the torch, ours are.  And the 4 guys I mentioned are all well under 30 and I don't think any of them has peaked yet. So at the beginning of the year we'd have this rotation... PG - Rondo SG - Allen SF - Pierce PF - Garnett C - best one available, whoever he is Bench - West (combo G), Green (SF), Krstic (C), Davis or an upgrade at PF Then by season's end, once the younger guys are ready, it could look like this: PG - Rondo SG - West SF - Green PF - Garnett (or, who knows, some young blood if he's ready) C - whoever that guy is I mentioned above Bench - Allen (SG, with West going to point when Rondo's out), Pierce (SF), Krstic (C) If nothing else, we'd have one of the fastest, most athletic 1-2-3 combos in the league! I realize it's best case scenario... But I'd hate to see any of those young guys we already have becoming the next Tony Allen with us wishing we'd paid them a little more or developed them better.  Again, I don't think any of them has peaked yet.  And I could see each one of them improving with the right combination of knowing our system better (Green, Krstic) and just stringing some consistent healthy minutes together (look how good West was once he had that chance against the Heat.)  All of which would give us the consistency to make Rondo's job easier, faciliating his growth. Your side merits consideration, but mine does too.  If we CAN create an organic passing of the torch, think of how much those young guys would learn from these future Hall of Famers, even after they've earned their minutes and starting roles.  And we'd be building on our current nucleus whose development was still in progress at this season's end. Just a few things to consider along with everything else...
    Posted by MsLithium21[/QUOTE]
    I respect you opinions and points well made.. Im just saying that if Danny is offered a deal that needs to be made for the long term and benefit of the franchise, he is going to pull the trigger. He already opened that door wide this season. There is indication that he will do it again. I think he is on record, that he would have trade Bird at one time. If a deal shortens the  retooling phase, its got to be made, other wise we could find our selves in a never ending period of mediocrity. Just like in the early PP years. But a high pick or or young player with potential can really speed up the process. You never know what a contender is willing to pay for a experienced, proven commodity. Leadership and clutch performances are so valuable in the play offs.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]Hindsight says that Boston should have traded Ray Allen in 2009/10. May well have gotten a reasonable player in return. But I can't see the Celtics being able to move him. Celtics should bite the bullet and put Allen on the bench for next season. Will be deadly coming off the bench. Pierce to SG and Green to SF (where he belongs, not at PF where the Thunder played him). Oddly enough in the NBA2k11 game the Celtics always trade Ray Allen very early in 'the Association' mode. And they invariably get a decent young player for him.
    Posted by RUWorthy[/QUOTE]

    The way Ray played this year, name me someone we could have gotten that would contribute more?   And remember last year's playoffs - his D on Kobe and his winning a game for us and the series before that.  Remember his play this year and in the playoffs (shooting 54% from 3 point land).   Tell me what player Ray would have brought who you think would have contributed more to the C's ( and don't name a draft choice for the future because our future was last year and this year).
     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]See I'm not so sure we're there.  And I don't think I'm being overly optimistic at all, just looking at all the pieces... First of all, the Big 3 were almost 100% healthy.  The only one who had to actually sit out games due to injury was KG.  Most of the injuries were, ironically, to the younger guys.  All but the O'Neal Brothers were under 30:  Rondo, West, Baby, Wafer, Krstic - along with the 4 guys we were pretty much forced to trade because we were so hard hit:  Robinson, Erden, Daniels and of course Perkins at the time of the trades. I think the problem, therefore, was that they got worn down due to playing more minutes than anyone planned or hoped for.  Again, no consistent supporting cast due to injuries, which brought on the trade, which made the consistency problem worse, in part because the injuries kept coming. Another way to look at this, Ortiz, is that we may have 3 or even 4 big pieces of the future right here in Rondo, Green, West and Krstic.  Rondo can work on his outside shot, Green and West can learn from Pierce and Allen respectively and eventually (maybe by next season's end) be ready to replace them as starters with their "mentors" playing important roles off the bench.  And Krstic can learn our "system" and solidify his place as a reliable back-up.  It can happen.  Maybe not on most teams, but the Celtics players have been all about each other all year.  If any team's veterans are capable of passing the torch, ours are.  And the 4 guys I mentioned are all well under 30 and I don't think any of them has peaked yet. So at the beginning of the year we'd have this rotation... PG - Rondo SG - Allen SF - Pierce PF - Garnett C - best one available, whoever he is Bench - West (combo G), Green (SF), Krstic (C), Davis or an upgrade at PF Then by season's end, once the younger guys are ready, it could look like this: PG - Rondo SG - West SF - Green PF - Garnett (or, who knows, some young blood if he's ready) C - whoever that guy is I mentioned above Bench - Allen (SG, with West going to point when Rondo's out), Pierce (SF), Krstic (C) If nothing else, we'd have one of the fastest, most athletic 1-2-3 combos in the league! I realize it's best case scenario... But I'd hate to see any of those young guys we already have becoming the next Tony Allen with us wishing we'd paid them a little more or developed them better.  Again, I don't think any of them has peaked yet.  And I could see each one of them improving with the right combination of knowing our system better (Green, Krstic) and just stringing some consistent healthy minutes together (look how good West was once he had that chance against the Heat.)  All of which would give us the consistency to make Rondo's job easier, faciliating his growth. Your side merits consideration, but mine does too.  If we CAN create an organic passing of the torch, think of how much those young guys would learn from these future Hall of Famers, even after they've earned their minutes and starting roles.  And we'd be building on our current nucleus whose development was still in progress at this season's end. Just a few things to consider along with everything else...
    Posted by MsLithium21[/QUOTE]

    Excellent post, and add only more more point:  Ray and KG come off the books that next year and that's a LOT of room to bring a top notch free agent to join Rondo, Green, and West.....and likely re-sign Ray for one last year in 2013 at a low salary to just come in during spots and shoot.

     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? : I respect you opinions and points well made.. Im just saying that if Danny is offered a deal that needs to be made for the long term and benefit of the franchise, he is going to pull the trigger. He already opened that door wide this season. There is indication that he will do it again. I think he is on record, that he would have trade Bird at one time. If a deal shortens the  retooling phase, its got to be made, other wise we could find our selves in a never ending period of mediocrity. Just like in the early PP years. But a high pick or or young player with potential can really speed up the process. You never know what a contender is willing to pay for a experienced, proven commodity. Leadership and clutch performances are so valuable in the play offs.
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]

    If Danny is OFFERED a deal and it does us justice, then of course he has to at least consider it.  On that point we agree. 

    I just don't think we're in as bad a place as some people believe... so I'm extremely cautious about the mindset of 'just go for young potential and give someone ELSE our best weapons because they have a better chance than we do.'  If we have normal health, set limits on our starters' minutes and add the right players to play supporting roles today and lead tomorrow, we can contend next year and - I'll go on record right here - maybe win it all.  How many teams go through a season where 11 of their original players miss games due to injury.  Seriously!?  Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe our only players who did NOT were Pierce, Allen, Harangody and Bradley... That can't happen 2 seasons in a row, especially if we gamble less and select more players at low risk of injury/reinjury.  All I'm saying is that this year we were elite but ultimately incapacitated by an extreme amount of injuries.  With good, healthy players allowing for smart minutes management I think the Celtics will prove nearly everyone wrong about them - without having to rebuild just yet!
     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us?? : Excellent post, and add only more more point:  Ray and KG come off the books that next year and that's a LOT of room to bring a top notch free agent to join Rondo, Green, and West.....and likely re-sign Ray for one last year in 2013 at a low salary to just come in during spots and shoot.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life[/QUOTE]

    I really like that scenario, and thanks for the kind words!  From what I understand about Ray, I think he would do that.  He's said so many times he'd like to retire as a Celtic and be involved with the organization for years after.  And seriously, I think Rondo, West and Green would be one of the most exciting 1-2-3 combos in basketball if given a chance to develop... kind of a "Little Big 3" if you will.  Smile
     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    First of all I want to thank DA and Doc for bringing Ray to Boston. As for trading Ray, he is far too valuable for Boston to trade him. Two reasons... "Despite his age, he continues to play amazingly well, a rare breed of all star that you may never see again" and "Ray is a true meaning of Celtic and he wants to be here until he retires". It's too bad that Boston was not able to have Ray before his NBA career started. Ray nor KG, Truth, and Rondo should be tampered with. Boston just needs a primary Center and stronger bench. Boston should try to get D Howard and keep Wafer, West and Green for bench... the rest being delt will help the team. Hopefull DA will pull another rabbit out of his hat and get some serious backup. Regardless KEEP RAY!!!!
     
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    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    I think it's simple, Ray doesn't bring us anything in a trade that is any better than Ray Allen.  We "endure" another year of Ray Allen and hopefully can add a wing scorer this year off the bench.  Then, in 2012, Ray and everyone else comes off the books and we can make a move at a max FA. 
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    In Response to Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??:
    [QUOTE]I think it's simple, Ray doesn't bring us anything in a trade that is any better than Ray Allen.  We "endure" another year of Ray Allen and hopefully can add a wing scorer this year off the bench.  Then, in 2012, Ray and everyone else comes off the books and we can make a move at a max FA. 
    Posted by PauGasolSmells143[/QUOTE]

    Thats is exactly, we're not getting better trading Ray for another player..  What we could get is good draft choices for a team trying to get over the hump for a title needing a marksman like Ray.    Draft choices could help for the future but if we're sticking with the same core players, the future is now.. 

    Ray played great this season.. the main reason his production dropped off later was because the "team" wasnt getting him his shots, for the most part. Its no secret Ray thrives running off screens/picks and getting the timely pass on the button.  Rays stats tells you that he wasnt necessarily losing his touch cause he was tired or old...  but wasnt getting his shots..   His attempts per game were falling
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: What could Ray Allen bring us??

    too add... thats a team /execution issue...
     
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    What could Ray Allen bring us??

    This is the only situation i could see the Celtics trade Ray given that he has shown taking less money and still VERY productive at his age and for that price. If something serious injury wise were to happen to KG or Pierce and basically the season became lost prior to the trade deadline. Then i could see the organization going to Ray and tell him what other teams are offering and ask his permission to trade him. This would allow him a potential playoff run with another team and I would be clamoring the following summer to bring him back.

    I haven't seen it mentioned on this board but as i see it KG could do the same thing that Ray has done and after his contract expires he too could resign with the Celtics for the resonable price of 10M per year for the last couple years of his career. Of the Big three Pierce was the lowest in career earnings so his LARGE contract made sense. What a testiment to this organization and to these three guys that as there careers wind down they resign for organization friendly extensions take great care of their bodies and allow the team to transition all the while staying competitive. I love this team and these guys make it all the more easier.
     

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