What do we do with Baby this summer?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    What do we do with Baby this summer?

    Green is better than Baby. He has to resigned and along with Rondo and Pierce try to lure Howard here summer '12. Everyone must know by now that this is the big pitcure.

    Baby cannot be kept around, even just counting 5 million on the cap after '12, WITH Green (counting 7-9). We need 15 million in space to sign a max contract player.

    Hopefully Ainge can do a sign and trade that brings back a young PF under contract at 2-3 million in '12-'13 along w/ an exp contract for next year.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    lets not go over board here. Green is nice. He is the best player moved in the deal. But he does have a questionable shot and a low basketball IQ. He defered to his more accomplished team mates on OKC, but if he is running with the Celts 2nd unit, he needs to be more assertive on the offensive end.
    Green is good defensively, as a #3. As a #4 he has been over matched.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from spewey. Show spewey's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    I think they will let Baby walk.  He will be looking for a payday and some team will overpay him and it won't be the C's.  He is an undersized PF with maturity issues not worth the deal he will likely be offered.

    Many posters on this board will complain (eg. Powe, Posey, T. Allen, Perkins, ANTOINE????) since they view our own players through "green colored glasses" while failing to see the business side of the matter.  Combine this with the fact that many posters are unfamiliar with the talent throughout the league and there becomes a distorted value of player worth so staggering that they still clamor for the return of said player even after career ending injury (Powe) or overall decline (Posey).   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]lets not go over board here. Green is nice. He is the best player moved in the deal. But he does have a questionable shot and a low basketball IQ. He defered to his more accomplished team mates on OKC, but if he is running with the Celts 2nd unit, he needs to be more assertive on the offensive end. Green is good defensively, as a #3. As a #4 he has been over matched.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    Eh... not sure what you are implying here. The kid is 24 and has been a 16-6 player for 3 years. I'm talking a contract in the  5/45 or 5/50 range. 4th highest paid on team after we have a max player, Pierce then Rondo.

    He is not Melo or Wade when it comes to star power or recruiting players... but he is 2-4 years younger and when you pair him with a still good Paul Pierce and a pass 1st PG that is the perfect club for a Dwight Howard to play on.


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]lets not go over board here. Green is nice. He is the best player moved in the deal. But he does have a questionable shot and a low basketball IQ. He defered to his more accomplished team mates on OKC, but if he is running with the Celts 2nd unit, he needs to be more assertive on the offensive end. Green is good defensively, as a #3. As a #4 he has been over matched.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    I don't know where you are getting this about his IQ... from all accounts he is a GREAT teammate who played out of position with no complaints, plays smart ball and is a very solid 3rd option with a sweet mid-range jumper. He was once a 38% 3 point shooter but is now down at 30... he needs to regain his stroke there and at the 3 and being a 4th option he very likely can.

    He is a natural SF and will be far superior talent wise to most of the 2nd unit players guarding him... how do you already feel the need to question his assertiveness in a role we have yet to see him in? Isn't it expected that he come off the bench and be asked to score buckets and play 'his' game? I think Danny feels he'll be a lot like Posey in '08 this year... then just be leaps and bounds better in the future.

    When he is playing with the first unit you want him to put his energy into defending while Pierce/Ray and KG are the first two options to score.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]I think they will let Baby walk.  He will be looking for a payday and some team will overpay him and it won't be the C's.  He is an undersized PF with maturity issues not worth the deal he will likely be offered. Many posters on this board will complain (eg. Powe, Posey, T. Allen, Perkins, ANTOINE????) since they view our own players through "green colored glasses" while failing to see the business side of the matter.  Combine this with the fact that many posters are unfamiliar with the talent throughout the league and there becomes a distorted value of player worth so staggering that they still clamor for the return of said player even after career ending injury (Powe) or overall decline (Posey).   
    Posted by spewey[/QUOTE]

    If we had given Pose the 4 years it would have been great. All the contracts are set to expire after 2012 anyhow.

    We just went cheap with Tony and Marquis instead and it could have cost us a ring last year.

    I don't think anyone cried much when TA and Powe left. Antoine and Perk are  beloved players whose depature i/wass part of a bigger plan for the future.

    I say get something back for Baby if possible, but yes he could walk for sure and we'd have to let him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : I don't know where you are getting this about his IQ... from all accounts he is a GREAT teammate who played out of position with no complaints, plays smart ball and is a very solid 3rd option with a sweet mid-range jumper. He was once a 38% 3 point shooter but is now down at 30... he needs to regain his stroke there and at the 3 and being a 4th option he very likely can. He is a natural SF and will be far superior talent wise to most of the 2nd unit players guarding him... how do you already feel the need to question his assertiveness in a role we have yet to see him in? Isn't it expected that he come off the bench and be asked to score buckets and play 'his' game? I think Danny feels he'll be a lot like Posey in '08 this year... then just be leaps and bounds better in the future. When he is playing with the first unit you want him to put his energy into defending while Pierce/Ray and KG are the first two options to score.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    I guess its possible to see KG, PP & Green  on the floor at the same time and maybe likely if we dont get another center.
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    What nonsense! Everyone I have read says Green has a very high basketball IQ.  John Thompson his coach says he is the smartest player he ever coached.

    Regarding BBD I can't believe people don't see the unique value of Baby. He will be resigned, count on it.  

    This talk of Dwight Howard has little basis in fact as he has expressed interest in playing for the Lakers.  If he does not he will stay with the Magic.  

    Think about this talk of Howard coming here and point to evidence that exists that this is a possibilty.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : I don't know where you are getting this about his IQ... from all accounts he is a GREAT teammate who played out of position with no complaints, plays smart ball and is a very solid 3rd option with a sweet mid-range jumper. He was once a 38% 3 point shooter but is now down at 30... he needs to regain his stroke there and at the 3 and being a 4th option he very likely can. He is a natural SF and will be far superior talent wise to most of the 2nd unit players guarding him... how do you already feel the need to question his assertiveness in a role we have yet to see him in? Isn't it expected that he come off the bench and be asked to score buckets and play 'his' game? I think Danny feels he'll be a lot like Posey in '08 this year... then just be leaps and bounds better in the future. When he is playing with the first unit you want him to put his energy into defending while Pierce/Ray and KG are the first two options to score.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]
    first of all, do go by all accounts. watch him play. secondly, having a low basketball IQ does not imply he is not a good team mate willing to do what ever it takes to win.
    Watch him play however and you see the missed pass, the indecisivness sometimes when he shoots, the fight thru the pick when he should have switched onto the roll. 
    Look, I am a bug fan of Ainge. That being said, Presti is no slouch. They had numerous opportunities to lock this guy up, and they didn't. They moved him for a 27 year old C that is at his ceiling with a major knee operation.
    If you prefer to rely on "all accounts", switch over to some of the OKC pages and read their comments on how Green.
    Green is young, a change of scenery may be great for him, as will Doc and KG. All I am saying is that a young Paul Pierce is not coming over, might be more like Marvin Williams is coming over
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]What nonsense! Everyone I have read says Green has a very high basketball IQ.  John Thompson his coach says he is the smartest player he ever coached. Regarding BBD I can't believe people don't see the unique value of Baby. He will be resigned, count on it.   This talk of Dwight Howard has little basis in fact as he has expressed interest in playing for the Lakers.  If he does not he will stay with the Magic.   Think about this talk of Howard coming here and point to evidence that exists that this is a possibilty.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]
    to my eye, Green in college and Green now look like 2 totally different players.
    I agree with you, BBD over the past 2 seasons has played significantly better than Green in all aspects of the game.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]I'm thinking that Green becomes the priority this summer .... all depends on what BBD will settle for under the new CBA. Reasonable contract and he stays ... too much and a S&T is in order ... Howard is still the focus and Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Green & KG will be hard to pass up as teammates.
    Posted by Mployee8[/QUOTE]

    with a 55 million cap BBD and Green cannot combine to count for more than 11 million combined in 2012-13.

    I don't see any possible way that we can keep them both. Unless you think Green will stay for 5/40 and Baby for 5/25.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]What nonsense! Everyone I have read says Green has a very high basketball IQ.  John Thompson his coach says he is the smartest player he ever coached. Regarding BBD I can't believe people don't see the unique value of Baby. He will be resigned, count on it.   This talk of Dwight Howard has little basis in fact as he has expressed interest in playing for the Lakers.  If he does not he will stay with the Magic.   Think about this talk of Howard coming here and point to evidence that exists that this is a possibilty.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Evidence:

    1. LA won't have the cap space. So only if they swap Bynum for Howard in a trade would that work.

    2. The teammates the Celtics have to put around Howard will be FAR better than the Magic. He'd be in the LeBron situation.

    Magic are hopeless. A top 5 team in the East for 5 years with no shot at a title. Obviously the Magic could makes moves, but they'd prob be the type of lateral no major upside moves Cleve was making to try and keep LeBron.

    Arenas, Turk, Redick, Nelson, Duhon and Q Rich are all under contract for 2013 @ 51 million. Good luck with that trash heap. Compare that to Rondo, Green and Pierce w/ Ray and KG ready to come back on the cheap, Avery & a Clippers pick in the teens and possibly whatever we get for BBD sign & trade.

    Best evidence for Howard not being a possibility is if the CBA included an NFL like franchise tag
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : first of all, do go by all accounts. watch him play. secondly, having a low basketball IQ does not imply he is not a good team mate willing to do what ever it takes to win. Watch him play however and you see the missed pass, the indecisivness sometimes when he shoots, the fight thru the pick when he should have switched onto the roll.  Look, I am a bug fan of Ainge. That being said, Presti is no slouch. They had numerous opportunities to lock this guy up, and they didn't. They moved him for a 27 year old C that is at his ceiling with a major knee operation. If you prefer to rely on "all accounts", switch over to some of the OKC pages and read their comments on how Green. Green is young, a change of scenery may be great for him, as will Doc and KG. All I am saying is that a young Paul Pierce is not coming over, might be more like Marvin Williams is coming over
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    He doesn't have a low bball IQ, so just admit you are wrong and move on.

    I have watched him play. Yes I remember him at G'Town almost as much as the 20 or so games i saw him in OKC. But still he is 24 and has the ability to play 2 positions, guard 3's very well. drop 20 a night, sweet mid-range J, explosive to the rim and still getting better.

    He is not Marvin Williams... he'll be like Xavier McDaniel, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Tom chambers, Cliff Robinson, Rashard Lewis... the type of smooth shooting forward who can defend 3's, create mismatches at the 4 and give you a 22-7 in their prime. If he is your 3rd best player you are a top 10 team. 4th best player top 3 team.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : with a 55 million cap BBD and Green cannot combine to count for more than 11 million combined in 2012-13. I don't see any possible way that we can keep them both. Unless you think Green will stay for 5/40 and Baby for 5/25.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]
    What do you see in DLee that you don't see in BBD? Only minutes played. I am not saying BBD is worth 6/$80, but 5/25 looks pretty short to me. BBD is making $3M this year, and might have a 6th man award in his pocket.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    David Lee is 6'10" and can score 16-18 w/ little energy while Baby is 6'8" and works VERY hard for his 12-14. That is if you give them the same minutes.

    Baby of course plays admirable defense and in most matchups at the 4 I'd prefer him to Lee, despite his shortcomings as far as losing boards to taller players. His ablity to push players off the block, spacing, strength, etc are great.

    I did not say he is worth 5/25, maybe 5/35-5/45... I said he can only stay a Celtic if accepts 5/25. I'd rather pay Baby 8 million than Lee 16 million of course. But this is not about Lee, it is about cap space for a max player.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : He doesn't have a low bball IQ, so just admit you are wrong and move on. I have watched him play. Yes I remember him at G'Town almost as much as the 20 or so games i saw him in OKC. But still he is 24 and has the ability to play 2 positions, guard 3's very well. drop 20 a night, sweet mid-range J, explosive to the rim and still getting better. He is not Marvin Williams... he'll be like Xavier McDaniel, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Tom chambers, Cliff Robinson, Rashard Lewis... the type of smooth shooting forward who can defend 3's, create mismatches at the 4 and give you a 22-7 in their prime. If he is your 3rd best player you are a top 10 team. 4th best player top 3 team.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    We are seeing two different players. Actually, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Jump around some of the OKC sights about the trade. A lotof the fans over there are not seeing the players you are describing.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : We are seeing two different players. Actually, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Jump around some of the OKC sights about the trade. A lotof the fans over there are not seeing the players you are describing.
    Posted by rkarp[/QUOTE]

    These fans have had a basketball franchise for all of 3 years and watched Durant ball all that time. They have the nerve to trash a talented 24 year old kid whose only issue it seems was playing out of position and not having his clear talents used in the correct manner?

    I'd think that playing him on our deeper team and asking him to simply run the floor w/ a top 3 passing PG in the game and score the way he likes to score @ mostly SF will make him a star. Durant can really only guard 3's, so that talent of Green's was wasted. His PG was a pass to Durant 1st shoot 2nd, get 18 points and 6 assists guy who gave Green the scraps.

    I compared him to players who were combo forwards and ages 25-29 were 21-7 guys. Mark my words, that is what Green will be. If he is your 2nd best player though you won't be winning any rings. I annoited him a borderline all-star, not a superstar. Marvin Williams was a bust picked on potential who did far less in one year at UNC than Green in 3 at G'Town. He is worthy of being a 20 min 7th man who gets 9-4 a game on a winner and a 4th man 13-6 guy on a loser. Green is far better than that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : These fans have had a basketball franchise for all of 3 years and watched Durant ball all that time. They have the nerve to trash a talented 24 year old kid whose only issue it seems was playing out of position and not having his clear talents used in the correct manner? I'd think that playing him on our deeper team and asking him to simply run the floor w/ a top 3 passing PG in the game and score the way he likes to score @ mostly SF will make him a star. Durant can really only guard 3's, so that talent of Green's was wasted. His PG was a pass to Durant 1st shoot 2nd, get 18 points and 6 assists guy who gave Green the scraps. I compared him to players who were combo forwards and ages 25-29 were 21-7 guys. Mark my words, that is what Green will be. If he is your 2nd best player though you won't be winning any rings. I annoited him a borderline all-star, not a superstar. Marvin Williams was a bust picked on potential who did far less in one year at UNC than Green in 3 at G'Town. He is worthy of being a 20 min 7th man who gets 9-4 a game on a winner and a 4th man 13-6 guy on a loser. Green is far better than that.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    I didn't realize that 3 years was the criteria for having an opinion on a players talent. 
    I like the fact that you are passionate about Green and I hope you are correct. I too hope the change of scenery and roles on the Celtics is favorable for Green. My eye test saw him regressing the past 2 years, not ascending. 
    While you annoit him a borderline all star, looking at his player efficiency rating has him at about 13, ranking him in 52nd place for power forwards (albeit he most likely is out of position at PF.
    At the moment, we see 2 different players. Lets see how he plays over the next 25 games and how gamne ready he is for the playoffs.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    Oh of course we shall see how it plays out. There will be a transition period but this team gives Green the chance to play to his strengths.

    There are many ignorant fans on this website who have little clue about the sport or team. You are not one of them of course that is not my point. Point is with as rich a history and following as Boston has and this region has I would assume that those types of clueless fans are even more abundant in the Oklahoma Thunder fanbase, a team w/ 3 years of history, not 65, and a region with not nearly the vested interest in the sport.

    And yes you can throw his PER out the window @ PF. He has regressed slightly b/c he has continued to be the say nothing good soldier while not being given a chance to succeed to the best of his skill-set and management did not give him a fair extension (he reportedly asked for 5/50). Clearly he was in an uncomfortable spot.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What do we do with Baby this summer? : He doesn't have a low bball IQ, so just admit you are wrong and move on. I have watched him play. Yes I remember him at G'Town almost as much as the 20 or so games i saw him in OKC. But still he is 24 and has the ability to play 2 positions, guard 3's very well. drop 20 a night, sweet mid-range J, explosive to the rim and still getting better. He is not Marvin Williams... he'll be like Xavier McDaniel, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Tom chambers, Cliff Robinson, Rashard Lewis... the type of smooth shooting forward who can defend 3's, create mismatches at the 4 and give you a 22-7 in their prime. If he is your 3rd best player you are a top 10 team. 4th best player top 3 team.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Don't hold your breath........he may admit you are right.  He may admit someone else gave him bad intell, he may admit eveyone is a moron except him, but he will NEVER admit he was wrong.  You are dealing with a man who erroneously reported a deal between DEN and NJN was "consummated".  You're talking to a guy who doesn't want Green, Murphy, TMac, Posey or Battier.  He would rather the Celtics do nothing, limp into the playoffs and proceed just like last year.

    Next, he'll tell YOU you have a low BB IQ!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from cpjohn1. Show cpjohn1's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    From what I heard on channel 5 news was that one of the reasons they didn't re-sign Perk was that he wanted too much money and they wanted to be able to re-sign Baby.  So Baby will re-sign so long as he doesn't want more than the Celtics are willing to pay.  They value Davis more than Perk, at least that's what the reporter said.
     
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    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    Forgot to mention that Danny seems to value versatility and Perk and zero versatility.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maryngary. Show maryngary's posts

    Re: What do we do with Baby this summer?

    Glen Davis is a quality NBA player worth his price and a huge part of the Celtics this year.  Resign him.
     
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