When is it to late

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rich4celts. Show rich4celts's posts

    When is it to late

    When eveyone is healthy, I know that's a big WHEN. Can and will we be able to  sacrifice a few wins to really develope a second green team like in 1986. Wishful thinking? I think we have the players now, but they are really in need of playing time together. Doc scares me on this note.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PierceIsTheTruth. Show PierceIsTheTruth's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    didnt the 1986 team only have 7 people on the active roster by the championship game? they were talking about it on weei the radio the other day.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rich4celts. Show rich4celts's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    Sorry for the senior moment, the year I was referring to was 85
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    In Response to When is it to late:
    When eveyone is healthy, I know that's a big WHEN. Can and will we be able to  sacrifice a few wins to really develope a second green team like in 1986. Wishful thinking? I think we have the players now, but they are really in need of playing time together. Doc scares me on this note.
    Posted by rich4celts

    When I heard Doc say he "had no idea when Shaq would return", that really gave me cause for concern.  We have too many "lost games to injuries" and it really doesn't look like its changing any time soon.  How in the world will we be able to assemble an effective, viable 2nd unit if we cannot get the players on the court together?

    It will be vital for us to get a solid 2nd unit together because I don't think it's that simple that Shaq and JON will return, ready to play solid minutes come playoff time.  And the worst thing about this is that the starters are over-extending themselves.  The byproduct means the starters, who need the backups the most, are being forced to play huge minutes.

    I hope by the end of this month, we can put it all together and hopefully this give us enough time for that unit to work out the kinks and gel.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    In Response to When is it to late:
    When eveyone is healthy, I know that's a big WHEN. Can and will we be able to  sacrifice a few wins to really develope a second green team like in 1986. Wishful thinking? I think we have the players now, but they are really in need of playing time together. Doc scares me on this note.
    Posted by rich4celts



    Doc has rested the starters at the end of the season every year.  Even in the first year, the minutes of the Big 3 were down in the last few games (and he even had each of them sit out games).  Last year, he did the same thing, even though they were losing games in the second half of the year.  This year, Doc's had KG sit out longer than KG wanted, he had Delonte take an extra couple of games before he came back on the wrist, he has Shaq sitting out when Shaq "claims" he wants to come back.  

    We always accuse Doc and Danny of holding out on us and why does it look like the injury is more serious than we're told.....because they hold people out to get a rest.   So, my guess is that Doc will rest the starters toward the end of the season and that leaves more time for these subs to play together.

    However, come the playoffs, the rotation will definitely shorten and we'll see 9 players max in my opinion (at least only 9 with meaningful minutes).  We won't see a lot of wholesale movement where the entire first unit goes out and the entire second unit comes in.  Its just too costly in the playoffs, especially from the second round forward.  Every game is of major importance.  So, I'm not as worried about the ENTIRE second unit playing together as I am 2 or 3 second unit players playing with 2 or 3 first unit players.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    I hope Doc (ala Popavich) chooses to rest the starters in a couple of big games against the elite teams.  Those are some games we might lose even with the starters playing big minutes, so it could be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone, if you know what I mean.  We've got a cushion now against Chicago and Miami.  May as well take advantage of it to help us in the long run.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    Celtsfan4life, I honestly believe we will see an entire 2nd unit sometime by the end of the season and then in the playoffs.  I believe that because we are so deep.  I can see a 2nd unit with Delonte, Green, Baby, Krstic and possibly Wafer (might be a stretch here).  That unit will more likely see Ray or PP running with it but I do forsee a wholesale substitution change using this unit at some point.  All while still maintaining a 9 man rotation.

    And I feel this unit is solid in itself and will be quite productive on both ends of the court.  Also, this unit is no significant downgrade from our 1st unit.  If this unit plays well together, nobody could play with us.  We'd wear down our opponents because their 1st unit would have to exert as much energy against this unit as they would against our first.  No other team's 2nd unit could even play with ours.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    Interesting approach, Breaktime.  I'm not sure its in Doc's nature but I wouldn't be altogether angry at him if he did it.   Also note that Pop has had the luxury of health almost all season.  Duncan is the only person he'll rest a lot no matter what.  We never know what Doc would have done had he had JON, DWest, Shaq, Semih, and Quis all season rather than their injuries.

    Of our starters who probably need the most rest, its Ray and Rondo.  But, they also have the most injuries to their backups (or the weakest play by their backups).  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    In Response to Re: When is it to late:
    I hope Doc (ala Popavich) chooses to rest the starters in a couple of big games against the elite teams.  Those are some games we might lose even with the starters playing big minutes, so it could be like killing 2 birds with 1 stone, if you know what I mean.  We've got a cushion now against Chicago and Miami.  May as well take advantage of it to help us in the long run.
    Posted by breaktime

    breaktime, I agree about resting guys if we are still very shorthanded when we play these elite teams.

    However, I see Doc looking to do the opposite here.  I believe that once we get the team healthy, depending on WHEN the game against that elite team is, Doc will play it straight up (while integrating the pieces/combinations) to gauge just how we measure up.  Right now, we've played pretty consistent and won without alot of the pieces.  We have to get the pieces together to see if that disrupts what we've built during the season.

    I think Doc needs to see how this plays out and not when it's most important (playoffs).
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rich4celts. Show rich4celts's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    There is nothing more demoralizing to fans and I guess to other teams, when great benchs get subbed and eveyone gasps: How did they get all these good players together and the lead increases.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    In Response to Re: When is it to late:
    Celtsfan4life, I honestly believe we will see an entire 2nd unit sometime by the end of the season and then in the playoffs.  I believe that because we are so deep.  I can see a 2nd unit with Delonte, Green, Baby, Krstic and possibly Wafer (might be a stretch here).  That unit will more likely see Ray or PP running with it but I do forsee a wholesale substitution change using this unit at some point.  All while still maintaining a 9 man rotation. And I feel this unit is solid in itself and will be quite productive on both ends of the court.  Also, this unit is no significant downgrade from our 1st unit.  If this unit plays well together, nobody could play with us.  We'd wear down our opponents because their 1st unit would have to exert as much energy against this unit as they would against our first.  No other team's 2nd unit could even play with ours.
    Posted by Petey62



    Petey, yours is one of the more balanced and fair opinions I ever read so I always respect your views.  Maybe you're right and we'll see a full substitution in the playoffs.

    We're not far apart from each other.  I just see a couple of starters in during the playoffs unless we are blown out or they are blown out.  My view looks like this (notice I keep one starter in at all times):

    Ray, Paul, KG, Rondo, Shaq  then

    Ray, Paul, Green, Rondo, Krstic (Green playing the 4, Krstic the 5) then

    Paul, Green, West, Krstic, BBD (Green slides to 3, Paul to 2, BBD at 4) then

    Green, West, Ray, Krstic, BBD (Green back to 3, BBD at 4) or
    Green, West, Rondo, Krstic, BBD.....then

    starters rotate back in kind of one at a time..  

    At any given time and depending on the matachups, you could see JON's name, Wafer's name, Arroyo's name, Murphy's name, or Sasha's name in for one of these folks but generally not all at once.   

    But, I see your point, Petey and maybe if they show success together late in the season or early in the playoffs, we'll see more subs all at one time.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    DWest/Arroyo
    Pavlovic/Wafer
    Green
    Davis
    Krstic/JON

    That team could beat many teams we play the rest of the way.  Doc should do it to finalize his rotation.......We know Shaq will start when he gets back, but who comes off the bench?

    Right now, it's West, Green, Davis and Krstic - PERIOD!  I would love to see a 10 man rotation, but am not holding my breath.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    Celtsfan4life, I really like your 3rd and 4th lineups.  You are probably right that one or two starters will always be on the court in the playoffs.

    When you look at it, West, Green, Krstic and Baby have all logged starter minutes or have been NBA starters.  If you add Ray or PP to that, there would be no letdown.

    I'd love to see that lineup for a good part of April leading up to the playoffs.  I'd really like to see those 4 guys gel on the court.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbair. Show kbair's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    if we have krstic/ davis/ green coming off the bench in the playoffs it will be a cakewalk. those three can easily handle anyone else's back-ups.
    personally, i would almost prefer shaq off the bench... less minutes, shooters that will spread the floor in green, pavlovich and davis' mid-range, a point guard that he has played more minutes with in west, he would absolutely destroy the opposition's post players by forcing the starters to play big minutes against him.
    as much as i love perkins, we are a much better team after the trade.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    Recent news makes it clear just how the serious the Celtics are about the bench being healthy in the playoffs.

    West, Shaq, BBD, and Wafer are being held out longer and longer.  Its clear that Doc and Danny have decided not to bring them back until they are sure they have healed.  That statement of Shaq playing if this were the playoffs likely would apply to West and BBD as well, but since its not the playoffs, expect the normal "he's close but it will be another couple of games" message from Doc.

    That means the new subs who are clearly not ready (Sasha, Arroyo, and Murphy) will see more playing time......or the starters are going to continue getting more time than everyone likes.   We'll be close in these games, unfortunately, and Doc's not going to sacrifice the game.  So, expect continued heavy minutes from the starters, except Garnett.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from b126962. Show b126962's posts

    Re: When is it to late

    In Response to Re: When is it to late:
    In Response to When is it to late : Doc has rested the starters at the end of the season every year.  Even in the first year, the minutes of the Big 3 were down in the last few games (and he even had each of them sit out games).  Last year, he did the same thing, even though they were losing games in the second half of the year.  This year, Doc's had KG sit out longer than KG wanted, he had Delonte take an extra couple of games before he came back on the wrist, he has Shaq sitting out when Shaq "claims" he wants to come back.   We always accuse Doc and Danny of holding out on us and why does it look like the injury is more serious than we're told.....because they hold people out to get a rest.   So, my guess is that Doc will rest the starters toward the end of the season and that leaves more time for these subs to play together. However, come the playoffs, the rotation will definitely shorten and we'll see 9 players max in my opinion (at least only 9 with meaningful minutes).  We won't see a lot of wholesale movement where the entire first unit goes out and the entire second unit comes in.  Its just too costly in the playoffs, especially from the second round forward.  Every game is of major importance.  So, I'm not as worried about the ENTIRE second unit playing together as I am 2 or 3 second unit players playing with 2 or 3 first unit players.
    Posted by Celtsfan4life

    In the close playoff games the rotation will be shortened to big 4, Krystic, West,whichever O'neal is healthy, Davis, and Green.
     
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