When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

     a guy like Coco Crisp (a Brandon Bass type)

    Seriously, you compare a basketball player to a baseball player?

    HAHAHA!!!

    Brandon Bass type? Does that mean Crispy Coco has a great jump shot? 

    I've never seen Brandon Bass use a bat. I mean if Bass had a bat against the Heat, he would just have struck Lebron with that bat and the Celts are in the Finals.

    A baseball player similar to a basketball player, really amusing.

     




    Again, this is the thing Boston sports fans sit around and discuss over beers... Bass is the type of middle of the road veteran rotation guy that Crisp is... Santana is the type of veteran who puts a contender over the top like Varejao... and Sully is the Ellsbury/Buchholz rookie with tons of upside

    If you and your friends don't have these types of fun discussions I pity you. I assume you don't b/c they are apparently beyong your comprehension and you choose instead to attack people and not join in on the things that make a sports forum fun... oh well...

    again, I'm very glad i am me and not you:-)

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    When will you man up and tell us how many wins you think LA will have and how far they will go?



    How many times must I tell you that the Lakers will NOT win the west and they will NOT be in the Finals!

    Eat some crispy cocos. That might improve your brain power.




    Haha, wow, still too much of a coward to answer my question and still asking yours about Sully over and over when I already answered it three times. do we have a final # of wins and when the Lakers season ends prediction from you yet. Hahaha. I wonder why that is so hard:-)

    I am sorry that you do not hang out with boston sports fans outside this forum and do not engage in or have the ability to understand these types of fun comparisons and discussions.  

    I am sorry that you cannot comprehend the benefits for and against a Sully trade and refuse to participate and what these forum's are for and instead turn everything into a black and white argument so you can mock and attack another person's differing opinion. 

    I am sorry you don't understand what a metaphor is and think when I say I am 'punching you around the ring here' in regards to winning an argument that I am actually threatening to attack you...

    I have sufficiently proven my points as always... this goes down as another solid W on my track record vs. yours Fierce as you could do nothing but laugh, demean and bully your way through legit questions asked of you and fun sports discussion you couldn't handle joining like a mature adult.

    Ah well, it is really pretty sad

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    and the better offer for Varejao is Lee, Sully and a pick... but you don't bring that up b/c you are now on the record as saying it is 'idiotic' to tarde Sully... but then refuse to get involved in the legit discussion about that and go back to your mocking one-liner drive-by attacks which do nothing but sink you deeper.

    Oh well... better luck next time.. hopefully you bring some bball intelligence, manners and an ability to be open-minded and an adult to our next discussion fierce.. b/c you failed at all those things this time around.

    And we're all still waiting for your prediction on W's and when LA's season comes to an end. Not to hard for most of us... but impossible for you it seems. And we all know why;-)

    Take care

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    Any trade to upgrade this team, IMO, will have to include Bradley.  I do not want to trade Sully, although Melo I'd be okay with.  Sully to CLE is very intriguing, but I don't want to do it.

     

    How about Green, Bradley and Lee for Millsap and Marvin Williams?

     

    Green and Lee could start for Utah..........we start Millsap ( a good rebounder) and have Williams sub for Pierce...................maybe move Bass in a separate deal?

     

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    I have looked at it from the Cavs point of view... they are not winning a title in the next 3 years with Varejao, but Sully is only 20 and went to OSU... it would be a hard call.

    The chances Ainge keeps Sully are greater than those that he trades him... but that is hardly the point. The point is that I am having fun as a fan making realistic trade ideas and creating basketball discussion, I am not going to set myself to make a wrong prediction so Fierce the child can slam me over and over about it 4 months from now.

    You are simply trying to degrade and bully others... way to go... you have made yourself look quite the fool in your conversations with me these past 2 days fierce... and you try to end everything with a personal attack and a taken out of context example of some comment I made on player movement from months ago... it is really very petty and very sad



    I would trade Sully for Varajeo and what it takes within reason in a second. The upside of Sully is not as great as a healthy Varajeo here for the next two to three years.  As I have said Varajeo would be one of the most popular players by the fans in many years.  He goes for fifteen rebounds on a good night. He would make the garbage of errant shots into longer possesssions and points.  Not understanding the greatest need of the Celtics and thinking Sullinger can fulfill it is to not understand Sullinger.  He has limitatations.

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    Any trade to upgrade this team, IMO, will have to include Bradley.  I do not want to trade Sully, although Melo I'd be okay with.  Sully to CLE is very intriguing, but I don't want to do it.

     

    How about Green, Bradley and Lee for Millsap and Marvin Williams?

     

    Green and Lee could start for Utah..........we start Millsap ( a good rebounder) and have Williams sub for Pierce...................maybe move Bass in a separate deal?

     




    Its a pretty big shake-up and I think throwing in Bradley is too much to give in my opinion.

    Millsap is a FA and if he leaves that lets them extend Jefferson and go with the frontcourt of Jefferson, Kanter and Favors so I can see them parting with him.

    Green is the same age and remarkably similar talent as Williams so it is a lateral move there for both teams, although Green still has slightly more upside as he's spent less years in the league, has been given less of a shotto show his stuff at SF and has the body to be a better defender.

    The Jazz have a hard time keeping players in Utah b/c of the cold and the country club moron atmosphere. Green and Lee's contracts could appeal to them b/c those guys are not only still just entering their prime, but they are signed at reasonable money for 3 more years after this. Williams is just 1 more year and Millsap, as said, a FA.

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    Any trade to upgrade this team, IMO, will have to include Bradley.  I do not want to trade Sully, although Melo I'd be okay with.  Sully to CLE is very intriguing, but I don't want to do it.

     

    How about Green, Bradley and Lee for Millsap and Marvin Williams?

     

    Green and Lee could start for Utah..........we start Millsap ( a good rebounder) and have Williams sub for Pierce...................maybe move Bass in a separate deal?

     




    Its a pretty big shake-up and I think throwing in Bradley is too much to give in my opinion.

    Millsap is a FA and if he leaves that lets them extend Jefferson and go with the frontcourt of Jefferson, Kanter and Favors so I can see them parting with him.

    Green is the same age and remarkably similar talent as Williams so it is a lateral move there for both teams, although Green still has slightly more upside as he's spent less years in the league, has been given less of a shotto show his stuff at SF and has the body to be a better defender.

    The Jazz have a hard time keeping players in Utah b/c of the cold and the country club moron atmosphere. Green and Lee's contracts could appeal to them b/c those guys are not only still just entering their prime, but they are signed at reasonable money for 3 more years after this. Williams is just 1 more year and Millsap, as said, a FA.




    Well, I like the trade for a couple of reasons.   First, our expectations for Jeff Green appear to be through the roof.  (some of us, anyway)  We would NOT have the same expectations for Marvin Williams.  He would be PP's backup, period!  Similarly with Millsap, he is a very good rebounder, who would help KG, and who would know his role.  As you say, it's a lot of lateral stuff, but adding Bradley to the mix would solidify the bench of Barbosa, Terry, Williams, Millsap and Wilcox.  Or Sully off the bench and start Milsap is goo, too!

     

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    Hedley, I would think Lee, Melo and a 1st rd pick for Millsap would be more than a fair deal. Millsap is an upgrade to Bass in every way, but he is still only 6'8". We'd give up a 26 minute 10-5 guy for a 34 minute 16-8 guy. an improvement for sure, but not a Varejao/Big Al type improvement. Al isn't the beast that Millsap is, but he gets the same # of boards just by being 6'10" and is a much smoother scorer who gets his points quicker and easier.

    I'd rather make it a 3 team trade where we send Bass somewhere for a 5m a year player that Utah would want.

    Or a trade where we get back a true PG for Bass and part with Lee.

    Soemthing like:

    Boston - Millsap, Jarrett Jack

    Golden State - Bass, a 1st or 2nd rd pick from us

    Utah - Lee and Melo, a 1st or 2nd rd pick

    Jack is the perfect backup PG to pair with Avery and Terry. A rugged guy who can defend 2's (for Terry) and makes big shots, protects the ball. He is a FA next year so who knows if he'd want to stay long-term in G-State's rebuilding process. He'd prob rather backup Rondo on a  contender for 16-18 mins a game then Steph Curry for 24-26.

    Carl Landry only went to GS for 1 year, so Bass essentially replaces him for the next 2 years. Again, nobody is beating down doors to sign with the Warriors and they have probably about 2 lotto trips left in them before they can make some noise. 

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    Any trade to upgrade this team, IMO, will have to include Bradley.  I do not want to trade Sully, although Melo I'd be okay with.  Sully to CLE is very intriguing, but I don't want to do it.

     

    How about Green, Bradley and Lee for Millsap and Marvin Williams?

     

    Green and Lee could start for Utah..........we start Millsap ( a good rebounder) and have Williams sub for Pierce...................maybe move Bass in a separate deal?

     




    Its a pretty big shake-up and I think throwing in Bradley is too much to give in my opinion.

    Millsap is a FA and if he leaves that lets them extend Jefferson and go with the frontcourt of Jefferson, Kanter and Favors so I can see them parting with him.

    Green is the same age and remarkably similar talent as Williams so it is a lateral move there for both teams, although Green still has slightly more upside as he's spent less years in the league, has been given less of a shotto show his stuff at SF and has the body to be a better defender.

    The Jazz have a hard time keeping players in Utah b/c of the cold and the country club moron atmosphere. Green and Lee's contracts could appeal to them b/c those guys are not only still just entering their prime, but they are signed at reasonable money for 3 more years after this. Williams is just 1 more year and Millsap, as said, a FA.




    Well, I like the trade for a couple of reasons.   First, our expectations for Jeff Green appear to be through the roof.  (some of us, anyway)  We would NOT have the same expectations for Marvin Williams.  He would be PP's backup, period!  Similarly with Millsap, he is a very good rebounder, who would help KG, and who would know his role.  As you say, it's a lot of lateral stuff, but adding Bradley to the mix would solidify the bench of Barbosa, Terry, Williams, Millsap and Wilcox.  Or Sully off the bench and start Milsap is goo, too!

     


    C - KG (28) Darko (12) Wilcox (8)

    PF - Millsap (32) Sully (16)

    SF - Pierce (32) Williams (16)

    SG - Lee (24) Terry (12) Barbosa (12)

    PG - Rondo (36) Terry (12)

    That is a solid roation... of course it lacks Brandon Bass, who you didn't trade.

    There would have to be some other move as well... Danny certainly created a roster that has lots of parts that can be pared together and easily moved... if this team struggles to jell and emerge as the clear runner-up to Miami that everyone excepts (I am nost suggestiing to blow up the team right now)

    looking at that lineup... with Terry and Darko as less than ideal backups at PG/C and with Pierce able to slide over and play some 2, and Williams/Sully capable of more than 16 mins per at forward... you'd have to think a Lee, Bass, Melo and draft pick move to someone for a better backup C and PG would be next in line.

    That is a lot of shaking up to do.

     

     

     

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    I have looked at it from the Cavs point of view... they are not winning a title in the next 3 years with Varejao, but Sully is only 20 and went to OSU... it would be a hard call.

    The chances Ainge keeps Sully are greater than those that he trades him... but that is hardly the point. The point is that I am having fun as a fan making realistic trade ideas and creating basketball discussion, I am not going to set myself to make a wrong prediction so Fierce the child can slam me over and over about it 4 months from now.

    You are simply trying to degrade and bully others... way to go... you have made yourself look quite the fool in your conversations with me these past 2 days fierce... and you try to end everything with a personal attack and a taken out of context example of some comment I made on player movement from months ago... it is really very petty and very sad



    I would trade Sully for Varajeo and what it takes within reason in a second. The upside of Sully is not as great as a healthy Varajeo here for the next two to three years.  As I have said Varajeo would be one of the most popular players by the fans in many years.  He goes for fifteen rebounds on a good night. He would make the garbage of errant shots into longer possesssions and points.  Not understanding the greatest need of the Celtics and thinking Sullinger can fulfill it is to not understand Sullinger.  He has limitatations.



    Right there with you Concord...

    It is the definition of moving a useful 20 year old complementary player who shouldn't play more than 20-24 mins on a contender, will give us 6 points and 6 boards and is 3 years away from his ceiling as an 18/9 'Millsap/Boozer/David West' PF for a glue guy husting veteran who is 2" taller, won't disrupt the offense and will come here and solve our biggest proble, re-energizr the club and give us 8 points and 11 boards for 2-3 years until PP/KG retire.

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    In response to concord27's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    I have looked at it from the Cavs point of view... they are not winning a title in the next 3 years with Varejao, but Sully is only 20 and went to OSU... it would be a hard call.

    The chances Ainge keeps Sully are greater than those that he trades him... but that is hardly the point. The point is that I am having fun as a fan making realistic trade ideas and creating basketball discussion, I am not going to set myself to make a wrong prediction so Fierce the child can slam me over and over about it 4 months from now.

    You are simply trying to degrade and bully others... way to go... you have made yourself look quite the fool in your conversations with me these past 2 days fierce... and you try to end everything with a personal attack and a taken out of context example of some comment I made on player movement from months ago... it is really very petty and very sad



    I would trade Sully for Varajeo and what it takes within reason in a second. The upside of Sully is not as great as a healthy Varajeo here for the next two to three years.  As I have said Varajeo would be one of the most popular players by the fans in many years.  He goes for fifteen rebounds on a good night. He would make the garbage of errant shots into longer possesssions and points.  Not understanding the greatest need of the Celtics and thinking Sullinger can fulfill it is to not understand Sullinger.  He has limitatations.



    Right there with you Concord...

    It is the definition of moving a useful 20 year old complementary player who shouldn't play more than 20-24 mins on a contender, will give us 6 points and 6 boards and is 3 years away from his ceiling as an 18/9 'Millsap/Boozer/David West' PF for a glue guy husting veteran who is 2" taller, won't disrupt the offense and will come here and solve our biggest proble, re-energizr the club and give us 8 points and 11 boards for 2-3 years until PP/KG retire.



    Amen. 

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    Well nice job Fierce, you joined the adult conversation in a way that doesn't personally attack others. You disagree of course, but are at least slightly less snotty and more respectful about it today.

    I agree that trading Bradley and Lee and keeping Bass around is not a good idea... we'd go from 4 to 2 SG's and have like 6 guys who prefer to play PF.

    Again the points have been made for both sides of Sully vs. Varejao. You are right that Cleveland could get better offers from others... but Lee, Sully and a pick is a pretty solid one. You have gone OFF on how Varejao is a 30 year old rebounding beast signed cheaply for 3 more years... so why is it 'idiotic' yo move Sully for him?

    I've already told you that once KG/PP are gone (and there is almost NO chance this is Pierce's last year) the C's would have a competitive core of Rondo-Avery-Green and Sully that is absolutely one superstar away from being a title contender.

    What is more likely? Winning a title in the next 2 years by adding the PERFECT player for us in AV.... or being a destination desired by a superstar in 2-3 years when we have cap space? I think Ainge will have a hard time doing again in 2015 what he did in 2007 and it is better to go for broke these 2 years. The situation is really not similar to Billups/JJ at all. 

     
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    Re: When KG Sits, Cs Struggle

    In response to Fiercest34's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    Well nice job Fierce, you joined the adult conversation in a way that doesn't personally attack others. You disagree of course, but are at least slightly less snotty and more respectful about it today.

    I agree that trading Bradley and Lee and keeping Bass around is not a good idea... we'd go from 4 to 2 SG's and have like 6 guys who prefer to play PF.

    Again the points have been made for both sides of Sully vs. Varejao. You are right that Cleveland could get better offers from others... but Lee, Sully and a pick is a pretty solid one. You have gone OFF on how Varejao is a 30 year old rebounding beast signed cheaply for 3 more years... so why is it 'idiotic' yo move Sully for him?

    I've already told you that once KG/PP are gone (and there is almost NO chance this is Pierce's last year) the C's would have a competitive core of Rondo-Avery-Green and Sully that is absolutely one superstar away from being a title contender.

    What is more likely? Winning a title in the next 2 years by adding the PERFECT player for us in AV.... or being a destination desired by a superstar in 2-3 years when we have cap space? I think Ainge will have a hard time doing again in 2015 what he did in 2007 and it is better to go for broke these 2 years. The situation is really not similar to Billups/JJ at all. 



    For the record, I'm not against getting Varejao.

    However, I don't think what the Celts have to offer will make the Cavs happy.

    Let's just put this way, if the Cavs tell Ainge we want Sully for Varejao, then do the deal!

    But I don't think the Cavs would want to have Tristan Thompson and Sully starting at the same time.

    What I'm saying is, it's not a realistic trade because Varejao is worth more than Sully, Lee, and picks.

    And also for the record, I don't think Ainge will trade Sully this season.




    I'm fine with that logic and we can finally agree.

    A final few points:

    - you are 3 weeks removed from comparing Green to Worthy and while he is no Magic, Rondo and the guy who was 8" taller than him are both the best rebounding PG's of their time, get 11+ dimes and shot terribly from 3 point range. KG at 36-37 is a 15-7.5 guy. Kareem, albeit 38-39 in the 87-88 title seasons was a 16-6.5. KG is a better defender. They had the same impact.

    - Tristan Thompson is built like Deng, Jeff Green, Marvin Williams, Trevor Ariza... he can be the backup SF on a team with Sully playing lots of 4. Doc is currently using Sully at the 5... he could see time behind Zeller, who knows, its just pretty clear to me they both would get thier mins.

    - for the record, I don't think we trade Sully, I think by the playoffs based on improvement we have like a 25% chance of beating Miami but if we got Varejao it would be neck and neck and many of those 35 people would change their mind.

    - The big 3 didn't step up the way HOfer's do in '10, but the Artest dirty play that sent Ray into an 0-16 funk, the Perk injury and the parade to the line on multiple phantom no contact calls didn't help much. That team had heart and a great game plan and couldn't catch one break after Ray's great shooting in game 2. It was truly a shame and I'll feel the sting of that finals all my life. 

     
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