who to take, westbrook or rondo?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : There you go again.  Another bad game by Ray Allen resulted in another Celtic loss, huh?
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     You must think more of Ray than i do, if you think the only way the C's can win is if Ray has a good game!!

     I was waiting for Paul to come up big for the C's last night, but he pulled another 4th quarter disappearing act!!!   Such is life!!!

     We are going to need more from Paul in the 4th quarter than just a little over 2 points in the last 6 games, at crunch time. Atop 15 Celtic great has got to do better than that!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? :  You must think more of Ray than i do, if you think the only way the C's can win is if Ray has a good game!!  I was waiting for Paul to come up big for the C's last night, but he pulled another 4th quarter disappearing act!!!   Such is life!!!  We are going to need more from Paul in the 4th quarter than just a little over 2 points in the last 6 games, at crunch time. Atop 15 Celtic great has got to do better than that!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    That's the real kyceltic coming out. Hating on Paul Pierce again.

    HAHAHA!!!


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? :  You must think more of Ray than i do, if you think the only way the C's can win is if Ray has a good game!!  I was waiting for Paul to come up big for the C's last night, but he pulled another 4th quarter disappearing act!!!   Such is life!!!  We are going to need more from Paul in the 4th quarter than just a little over 2 points in the last 6 games, at crunch time. Atop 15 Celtic great has got to do better than that!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    Pierce is averaging 20.6 ppg, 51.7% FG%, 47.5% 3pt FG% and 92.3% from the FT line. And Pierce is to blame for last night's loss?

    How many pts did Ray score last night? Going 3-9 from the field really doesn't help the Celtics win a game. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    Re: Swap JO for Frye

    posted at 10/31/2010 10:43 PM EDT
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=3567a792c5f5109ca211f62f3c1b2406&plckUserId=3567a792c5f5109ca211f62f3c1b2406">
    Posts: 1111
    First: 2/12/2006
    Last: 11/20/2010

     
    I have been out of town this week end, and just got back home.

     Someone suggested trading Pierce, instead of Rondo, as great as Pierce has been, his best years are behind him, and Denver would not do that deal. You have to give up a good to great player, to get a great player, that's why i said Rondo. Also i didn't say i would make that trade, i was just trying to give C's fans something to think about. But if i were Ainge, i would make the trade. I'm not knocking Rondo, i think he is a great guard, but if Melo played in Boston, everyone could see what kind of player he is!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    Someone suggested trading Pierce, instead of Rondo, as great as Pierce has been, his best years are behind him, and Denver would not do that deal.

    But if i were Ainge, i would make the trade. I'm not knocking Rondo, i think he is a great guard, but if Melo played in Boston, everyone could see what kind of player he is!!


    Really, kyceltic?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]Someone suggested trading Pierce, instead of Rondo, as great as Pierce has been, his best years are behind him, and Denver would not do that deal. But if i were Ainge, i would make the trade. I'm not knocking Rondo, i think he is a great guard, but if Melo played in Boston, everyone could see what kind of player he is!! Really, kyceltic?
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     Really what? Is there something you don't understand about what i said?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    pud.
    Rondo was hurt last night.  We know how you feel but try to be objective or what you say can't be taken seriously.  How did Rondo look in OKC last week?  He wasn't injured then.  Westbrook will never be the player Rondo is no matter what stats he puts up and I believe Rondo's will be far more impressive.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : Pierce is averaging 20.6 ppg, 51.7% FG%, 47.5% 3pt FG% and 92.3% from the FT line. And Pierce is to blame for last night's loss? How many pts did Ray score last night? Going 3-9 from the field really doesn't help the Celtics win a game. 
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

    We both know that you hate Ray. what i would like to know, is why, if you could explain your reasons,maybe i would understand, and could forgive you!!

     I have called Pierce, a top 15 Celtic of all time, that should show you i don't hate Paul. I've never heard you say a good word about the great,classy Ray Allen!!  Now's your chance, don't blow it!!  You can do it!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : We both know that you hate Ray. what i would like to know, is why, if you could explain your reasons,maybe i would understand, and could forgive you!!  I have called Pierce, a top 15 Celtic of all time, that should show you i don't hate Paul. I've never heard you say a good word about the great,classy Ray Allen!!  Now's your chance, don't blow it!!  You can do it!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    Top 15? Antoine Walker better than Pierce? 

    I told you I don't hate Ray Allen. Last year I thought it was best for the Celtics to trade him in February. I was wrong. I don't hate Ray Allen. Ray is 2nd on my list of great shooters behind Larry Bird.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]pud. Rondo was hurt last night.  We know how you feel but try to be objective or what you say can't be taken seriously.  How did Rondo look in OKC last week?  He wasn't injured then.  Westbrook will never be the player Rondo is no matter what stats he puts up and I believe Rondo's will be far more impressive.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Why in the world would Westbrook want to be the player that Rondo is?

    He would not want to trade stats/places under any circumstances.

    Take off your green eyeshades for a moment and do a reality check.

    Pud
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? :  Really what? Is there something you don't understand about what i said?
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    So if the Celtics trade Rondo for Melo then who would be the Celtic starters?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : So if the Celtics trade Rondo for Melo then who would be the Celtic starters?
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     That is for Doc to decide. Now if you ask me who their closer would be, i think both you and i know the answer to that one!!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? :  That is for Doc to decide. Now if you ask me who their closer would be, i think both you and i know the answer to that one!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    I think Pierce will still be the closer even if the Cs have Melo. What do you think?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : Top 15? Antoine Walker better than Pierce?  I told you I don't hate Ray Allen. Last year I thought it was best for the Celtics to trade him in February. I was wrong. I don't hate Ray Allen. Ray is 2nd on my list of great shooters behind Larry Bird.
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     Words are cheap, prove you don't hate Ray!!Laughing
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? :  Words are cheap, prove you don't hate Ray!!
    Posted by kyceltic[/QUOTE]

    I was wrong last year, this year you will never hear me say that we should trade Ray Allen. 

    If the Celtics win their 18th championship this season I want the Celtics to retire Ray Allen's #20. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : I think Pierce will still be the closer even if the Cs have Melo. What do you think?
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     If you're not gonna take this serious, i'm gonna quit!! HAHAHA!!!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : I was wrong last year, this year you will never hear me say that we should trade Ray Allen.  If the Celtics win their 18th championship this season I want the Celtics to retire Ray Allen's #20. 
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

     I am really having a hard time, coming up with something for this one!!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from KGLove. Show KGLove's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    So is everyone that hates Rondo happy now? Did you enjoy the game without him?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]So is everyone that hates Rondo happy now? Did you enjoy the game without him?
    Posted by KGLove[/QUOTE]

    Actually we Rondo-haters enjoy watching the games all by ourselves.

    Should we invite him over next time?

    Pud
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JamezHill24. Show JamezHill24's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    this is stupid.."if rondo could hit freebies hed be a top 2 pg in the league." really?? let me ask this. how many pg can pass like rondo does? how many pg can rebound like rondo does? how many pg play defense like rondo does? how many pg dominate playoff series's like rondo does?? the guys not perfect, but lets stop nitpicking on the ONE thing he has trouble with.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo? : I can ask for a lot more than a very meek 7 out of 10 from Rondo. Westbrook was so far superior to Rondo last night that they should not have been on the same basketball court.   Why didn 't Rondo explode for 20-25 points when his teammates were having difficulty getting off? Rondo had uncontested jumpers all night long... and took only three... hitting two. Very meek! One obviously profited from his TEAM USA experience while the other profited not at all. Guess who??? Westbrook got into Rondo's head and Rondo had few if any answers except to come up lame. DWest had to come in and put out the Westbrook blaze that started on Rondo's watch. Pud 
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    In previous games, Rondo has been the far superior player on the court despite having players like Lebron James and Kobe Bryant on the floor.  And I mean far better.  Especially in the playoffs.  But you don't want to recognize that.

    One game where Westbrook scores 30+ and you are all gaga over him.  Well honestly, I thought Westbrook played well, but he wasn't good enough.  For several reasons:

    1.  Westbrook got into rhythm pretty quickly because the Celtics defense was horrendous in the first half.  Once a player gets into his groove, even if you pick up your defensive intensity it can be difficult to cool him off.  There was some of this.  And clearly, in the fourth quarter, Westbrook couldnt negotiate a basket even if his life depended on it

    2.  Westbrook was a turnover machine.  He had 7 in the game and he got away with several (like the one where they gave him the timeout when he clearly didn't have possession of the ball)

    3.  He kept making bad decisions all game long.  In the 3rd quarter, where he did most of the damage, he was taking low percentage shot but because he was feeling it they kept going in

    Yes, Westbrook had a great game in terms of stats.  But there was a lot more desired from him.  He didn't play as a true point guard.  Had the Celtics taken that OKC team seriously from the start the game would have been a blowout in our favor.

    Westbrook is very talented.  He is the most explosive guy in the NBA and he is easily the quickest.  He has great ball control and obviously he can shoot and create offense.  He has the potential of become a top PG in the league.  But he is also raw.  His decision making isnt there yet.  To me, that is the biggest trait of a PG.  Most people fail to see this.  Rondo has this trait.  Westbrook is still raw.  Rondo is the better PG.  Westbrook is the better scorer.  Case closed.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoylestonBB. Show BoylestonBB's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    Both are meeting their teams needes.  I am thirlled to have Rondo and I am sure my friends in OKC love having Westbrook.

    I just enjoy watching them play each other.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from edcap99. Show edcap99's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    What a question? Hasn't Rondo already proven himself? All Westbrook can do better than Rondo is score. He can't run the Celtics team offense like Rondo. The word is "team'. Not much of a team over there where Westbrook plays.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]I take westbrook. I like his offense. He is a game changer and a winner.
    Posted by lovetruth007[/QUOTE]

    I find this topic fascinating.....

    People love to put qualifiers on topics such that it protects their opinion / perspective / team / psyche, etc.

    If you say "I would take X player instead of Rondo" someone will respond with "for this team Rondo fits in perfectly".... to this I say anytime you add a player that is simply better without any "qualifiers" you are a better team.  NO OTHER PLAYER PLAYS WITH 4 GUYS GOING TO THE HALL OF FAME ON THE VERY FIRST VOTE.

    People say Rondo is "perfect for this team" but then fail to even consider / think about / discuss that no other player in the league is playing with 4 players going to the Hall of Fame unanimously on the first ballot.  These are the same people that say that Perk is a borderline all-star something or other and how could they possibly get by without Perk for half the season.... when in reality, the Cs were able to sign two centers that are better than Perkins.

    Give the following players #5, #20, and #34 and the Cs are no worse off and in many cases a lot better. 

    C Paul, Deron Williams, Jennings, Rose, Wall, Davis, Udrih, Nash, Evans, Curry, Ellis, Westbrook, Devin Harris, Brooks, Parker, Kidd, and so on...

    Again, the context that I am laying out is that the Cs would not be worse off and in many cases a lot better.  Would the defense be doubling off Nash?  Ignoring Tyreke Evans?  Daring Devin Harris to beat them?

    Rondo is an automatic double team - every night a coach says "so and so is not going to beat us tonight"... then the next day people say Ray Allen or KG or PP had a crappy game but cannot associate the fact that the opponent decided to take a player out of the game by ignoring Rondo and doubling one of the big 3.

    Wide open uncontested jumper at the end of the Dallas game - the Mavs are laughing and on their way to the locker room as soon as Rondo is getting the ball in place to clang one - barely catching iron - ditto against the Bulls.

    You may give up some defense but your offense is a lot better, your point guard may no longer be a liability in the half court set (as both Doc and Coach K said recently), your point guard may not pass up layups because he is afraid to go to the foul line, your point guard - if he could shoot - would have 5 fewer assists per game because he would be taking and making jumpers, your point guard would not be costing the offense 3 points per game (the best point guards go to the line twice as often and make a percentage that is almost twice as high).

    So for me it is not just Westbrook - there is no way to assess what Rondo's teammates mean to his game and there is no way to assess to how other players would affect the Cs overall ability to contend.

    But I contend very simply that no other point guard in the league has as much talent to play with however there are many other point guards in the league that are just as capable in their overall game that would ensure the Cs are just as good if not a lot better.

    Who is the all time leading assist leader to start his career in assists?  John Wall... does he pass the ball to #5, #34, #20?

    Who is the only point guard to score at least 50 points and have triple double in his first calendar year in the NBA?  Brandon Jennings.....

    but of course..... these guys are not "perfect for this team"..... again, if you put qualifiers on things, you make any argument you want to make.

    I remember all of the posters on this blog talking about how Al Jefferson will be a perennial all-star.  He has never made an all-star team - never even got close - and as a matter of fact played on a lottery team every year in the league until this year when his point guard will get him into the playoffs and he will be again not make the playoffs because a rookie will make the all-star team and he will again be enjoying more than one beverage and watching the all-star game.

    There is a general consensus that now that Rondo has made an all-star team he will be the perennial point guard representative.  In the last few years Rondo, Rose, Nelson, and Harris have made the all-star team.  If Rondo were in the West and not playing with the three HOF he would not even get a sniff and in the east there are any number of players that will get an all-star nod and as a result of who he plays with, Rondo will get all-star games where he is clearly not one of the best point guards but gets the nod as a result of who he plays with.

    They are no worse off with Harris, Wall, Nash, Kidd, Evans, Paul, Williams, Nelson, Rose, Davis, Parker, Westbrook, etc..................... but if you keep putting qualifiers on it it - "Rondo is pefect for this team"...... though simply having better players and or no worse players they are in the same position. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?

    In Response to Re: who to take, westbrook or rondo?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to who to take, westbrook or rondo? : I find this topic fascinating..... People love to put qualifiers on topics such that it protects their opinion / perspective / team / psyche, etc. If you say "I would take X player instead of Rondo" someone will respond with "for this team Rondo fits in perfectly".... to this I say anytime you add a player that is simply better without any "qualifiers" you are a better team.  NO OTHER PLAYER PLAYS WITH 4 GUYS GOING TO THE HALL OF FAME ON THE VERY FIRST VOTE. People say Rondo is "perfect for this team" but then fail to even consider / think about / discuss that no other player in the league is playing with 4 players going to the Hall of Fame unanimously on the first ballot.  These are the same people that say that Perk is a borderline all-star something or other and how could they possibly get by without Perk for half the season.... when in reality, the Cs were able to sign two centers that are better than Perkins. Give the following players #5, #20, and #34 and the Cs are no worse off and in many cases a lot better.  C Paul, Deron Williams, Jennings, Rose, Wall, Davis, Udrih, Nash, Evans, Curry, Ellis, Westbrook, Devin Harris, Brooks, Parker, Kidd, and so on... Again, the context that I am laying out is that the Cs would not be worse off and in many cases a lot better.  Would the defense be doubling off Nash?  Ignoring Tyreke Evans?  Daring Devin Harris to beat them? Rondo is an automatic double team - every night a coach says "so and so is not going to beat us tonight"... then the next day people say Ray Allen or KG or PP had a crappy game but cannot associate the fact that the opponent decided to take a player out of the game by ignoring Rondo and doubling one of the big 3. Wide open uncontested jumper at the end of the Dallas game - the Mavs are laughing and on their way to the locker room as soon as Rondo is getting the ball in place to clang one - barely catching iron - ditto against the Bulls. You may give up some defense but your offense is a lot better, your point guard may no longer be a liability in the half court set (as both Doc and Coach K said recently), your point guard may not pass up layups because he is afraid to go to the foul line, your point guard - if he could shoot - would have 5 fewer assists per game because he would be taking and making jumpers, your point guard would not be costing the offense 3 points per game (the best point guards go to the line twice as often and make a percentage that is almost twice as high). So for me it is not just Westbrook - there is no way to assess what Rondo's teammates mean to his game and there is no way to assess to how other players would affect the Cs overall ability to contend. But I contend very simply that no other point guard in the league has as much talent to play with however there are many other point guards in the league that are just as capable in their overall game that would ensure the Cs are just as good if not a lot better. Who is the all time leading assist leader to start his career in assists?  John Wall... does he pass the ball to #5, #34, #20? Who is the only point guard to score at least 50 points and have triple double in his first calendar year in the NBA?  Brandon Jennings..... but of course..... these guys are not "perfect for this team"..... again, if you put qualifiers on things, you make any argument you want to make. I remember all of the posters on this blog talking about how Al Jefferson will be a perennial all-star.  He has never made an all-star team - never even got close - and as a matter of fact played on a lottery team every year in the league until this year when his point guard will get him into the playoffs and he will be again not make the playoffs because a rookie will make the all-star team and he will again be enjoying more than one beverage and watching the all-star game. There is a general consensus that now that Rondo has made an all-star team he will be the perennial point guard representative.  In the last few years Rondo, Rose, Nelson, and Harris have made the all-star team.  If Rondo were in the West and not playing with the three HOF he would not even get a sniff and in the east there are any number of players that will get an all-star nod and as a result of who he plays with, Rondo will get all-star games where he is clearly not one of the best point guards but gets the nod as a result of who he plays with. They are no worse off with Harris, Wall, Nash, Kidd, Evans, Paul, Williams, Nelson, Rose, Davis, Parker, Westbrook, etc..................... but if you keep putting qualifiers on it it - "Rondo is pefect for this team"...... though simply having better players and or no worse players they are in the same position. 
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    WRONG
     
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