Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    I must say I'm very impressed with the moves Kupchak has made the last 2-3 years (with the greatest assist of all-time from Jerry West of course)

    I think they've both benefitted from former Lakers & Celtics but isn't that what both of these two organizations always do? They're about loyalty and tradition. Now all we need is Bird to give us an assist at some point before he leaves the Pacers and we can keep leading in titles. Ainge & Bird could work something out where he comes on board to coach after Doc leaves. :-)

    Ok Larry, I'd like to see a Granger for BBD, Sheed's deal and a #1 get done. C'mon Larry!!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from laker4eva. Show laker4eva's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Kupchak is the daddy, Ainge is a boy in a man's world. He's done nothing apart from receive a medic parcel from McFale 3 years ago.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreadloxz. Show dreadloxz's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    well hard to really judge. I do think the NBA needs to look at their trade process because the lakers got Gasol for nothing. A late first round pick and Jarvus critterdon. They did not get one viable player for a top level nba player. We gave up a young stud in jefferson and much more to get Garnett.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wfdog. Show wfdog's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Because I currently hang in LA and have to deal with all these Faker fans, I hate to admit this but Kupchak kind of has it over Ainge. Since his deals for RA and KG, he hasn't done much either in trades or the draft. Even in 2007, House and Posey basically recruited eachother while Doc and KG recruited PJ to fill out that championship roster.

    We keep expecting him to pull out another big move but I feel like DA has no more tricks up his sleeve. Being out here, I just get the sense that Laker ownership has a greater sense of urgency while DA is just resting on his laurels, yet with the window on the 'New Big Three' closing fast it really should be the other way around. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mem17. Show mem17's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Ainge was a better player than Kupchak without question.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Danny is not resting on his laurels....you hit it right on the head....Laker ownership goes all out every year (ala Steinbrenner)......Celtic ownership does not.....end of story!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    I think I will have a better answer about midway through the upcoming season.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]ROFL no comparison - Kupchak.  And the steamroll continues with the brilliant off season he has brought to the LAkers this summer (+ Blake, Ratliff, Barnes; - Morrisson, Mbenga, Farmar).
    Posted by MagnificentBastard[/QUOTE]

    Who Kupchak acquired in the first place, and who lakers fans all thought would contribute last year.  And you forgot Powell and Brown - two more Kupchak experiments gone awry.  Face it, Artest and Gasol fell in his lap, and you already had koME, Fisher and Odumb.

    DA and Kupchak - it's a wash, since Jerry West built the team.  West vs Ainge?  West!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Even though I might be a little biased here I have to go with Kupchak. Since becoming GM of the Lakers in 2000, they have won 5 championships while Ainge has only won 1. Even though the Logo deserves most of the credit for drafting Kobe and signing Shaq before retiring after their first championship, Mitch did a great job keeping the roster intact and keeping them competitive even after trading Shaq (which was hugely unpopular but the right move). He's made smart moves by not trading away Bynum and picking up pieces like Ariza and Shannon Brown thats strengthened the Lakers. I'm also a huge Danny Ainge fan (idk why because I haaaaated him as a player) mainly because he seems like a shrewd business man who usually gets the better end of a trade. Getting the big three together and drafting a stud in Rondo were huge, but what I liked most is that he kept Doc as coach even though fans wanted his head on a stick. Nevertheless, I'm going with Mitch on this one.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    I would say DA has had to be much bolder.  He took the worst team in the league to 66 wins and a title.  He completely rebuilt a terrible team.  

    Kupchak had the Gasol trade given to him by his former boss and still had Kobe, Bynum, Odom and Fisher to work with.  The Artest move Kupchak made seems to have been a better move than the Rasheed move.  Still with KP healthy we would have been talking about a second title and they would have lost two in a row to us.

    Danny has been coming up with very little this off season and it seemed crucial that he do more. It feels like if we play poorly DA will be feeling a lot of pressure and will be looking to patch up the team as the season progresses.  Let's hope he has a plan.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobheckler. Show bobheckler's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]ROFL no comparison - Kupchak.  And the steamroll continues with the brilliant off season he has brought to the LAkers this summer (+ Blake, Ratliff, Barnes; - Morrisson, Mbenga, Farmar).
    Posted by MagnificentBastard[/QUOTE]


    Blake is a good guard, but not real good.  Ratliff is done and has been done for a few years.  To claim the signing of a 36 year old who has little left as evidence of good management is ridiculous.  Ratliff was available.  If you think Kupchak signing Ratliff is a "coup", then you're "coup-coup".

    Barnes went to Phoenix and they didn't even try to keep him.  He then went to Orlando and they didn't want to keep him either and he wanted to stay in Orlando.  He was signed by Orlando specifically to be a Pierce-killer.  Pierce averaged 19.6 in the first round against Miami, 13.5 against Cleveland (he had to expend a lot of energy guarding LBJ) and 24.3 against Matt Barnes in the Conference Finals on 51% shooting.  His numbers went up in every category against Barnes.

    Morrison's evidence of Kupchak's superior talent?  You gotta be kidding, right?
    Mbenga's evidence of Kupchak's superior talent?  You gotta be kidding, right?

    Farmar was an adequate backup point guard, nothing to crow about, and if Shannon Brown leaves that would be because Kupchak significantly overcommitted the Lakers financially to Sasha and a usually-injured Bynum.  If he hadn't overpaid Sasha, there would be NO question about Brown staying with the Lakers.  As it is, because Kupchak did blow that, Brown has an offer from the Knicks and Kupchak's scrambling to unload his Euro-mistake to make $ room for Brown.

    On the other hand, a poster quite correctly pointed out all the outstanding 2nd round draft picks by Danny Ainge.  Furthermore, he pulled off two blockbuster trades, bringing Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to the Celtics.  Kupchak has only had one.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]I would say DA has had to be much bolder.  He took the worst team in the league to 66 wins and a title.  He completely rebuilt a terrible team.   Kupchak had the Gasol trade given to him by his former boss and still had Kobe, Bynum, Odom and Fisher to work with.  The Artest move Kupchak made seems to have been a better move than the Rasheed move.  Still with KP healthy we would have been talking about a second title and they would have lost two in a row to us. Danny has been coming up with very little this off season and it seemed crucial that he do more. It feels like if we play poorly DA will be feeling a lot of pressure and will be looking to patch up the team as the season progresses.  Let's hope he has a plan.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Actually Jerry West was gone from Memphis by the time the Lakers made the trade for Gasol, Chris Dumb@ss Wallace was calling the shots. And even though he hasn't necessarily drafted well in the later rounds, he did get Bynum with the 10th pick and Farmar at the end of the 1st. Plus he made great trades in getting Odom and Caron Butler from Miami (for Shaq), Ariza from Orlando, and Shannon Brown from Charlotte. Caron Butler was eventually flipped for Kwame and a 1st rounder who was then flipped for Gasol. And I would also disagree with DA being bolder, Kupchak not only traded a hall of fame center still in his prime but he made other unpopular moves like not trading Bynum for Jason Kidd and trading away Caron Butler for Kwame. He did get lucky by acquiring Gasol, but I've always said that luck favors the bold. Even though DA became top dog in 2003, he really hadn't done anything special until 2007; since then hes been on a roll though.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : Actually Jerry West was gone from Memphis by the time the Lakers made the trade for Gasol, Chris Dumb@ss Wallace was calling the shots. And even though he hasn't necessarily drafted well in the later rounds, he did get Bynum with the 10th pick and Farmar at the end of the 1st. Plus he made great trades in getting Odom and Caron Butler from Miami (for Shaq), Ariza from Orlando, and Shannon Brown from Charlotte. Caron Butler was eventually flipped for Kwame and a 1st rounder who was then flipped for Gasol. And I would also disagree with DA being bolder, Kupchak not only traded a hall of fame center still in his prime but he made other unpopular moves like not trading Bynum for Jason Kidd and trading away Caron Butler for Kwame. He did get lucky by acquiring Gasol, but I've always said that luck favors the bold. Even though DA became top dog in 2003, he really hadn't done anything special until 2007; since then hes been on a roll though.
    Posted by VinniePapaGiorgio[/QUOTE]

    Actually, Jerry West was still employed by the Griz when the trade happened, and while technically not the GM, he was a consultant.  Anyone who thinks he was not "consulted" on this trade is delusional.

    Trading Butler was dumb, and not trading Bynum was smart.  Kupchak is a good GM, Ainge is a good GM.  I think Red and Jerry West were 1 and 1A all -time.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : Blake is a good guard, but not real good.  Ratliff is done and has been done for a few years.  To claim the signing of a 36 year old who has little left as evidence of good management is ridiculous.  Ratliff was available.  If you think Kupchak signing Ratliff is a "coup", then you're "coup-coup". Barnes went to Phoenix and they didn't even try to keep him.  He then went to Orlando and they didn't want to keep him either and he wanted to stay in Orlando .  He was signed by Orlando specifically to be a Pierce-killer.  Pierce averaged 19.6 in the first round against Miami, 13.5 against Cleveland (he had to expend a lot of energy guarding LBJ) and 24.3 against Matt Barnes in the Conference Finals on 51% shooting.  His numbers went up in every category against Barnes. Morrison's evidence of Kupchak's superior talent?  You gotta be kidding, right? Mbenga's evidence of Kupchak's superior talent?  You gotta be kidding, right? Farmar was an adequate backup point guard, nothing to crow about, and if Shannon Brown leaves that would be because Kupchak significantly overcommitted the Lakers financially to Sasha and a usually-injured Bynum.  If he hadn't overpaid Sasha, there would be NO question about Brown staying with the Lakers.  As it is, because Kupchak did blow that, Brown has an offer from the Knicks and Kupchak's scrambling to unload his Euro-mistake to make $ room for Brown. On the other hand, a poster quite correctly pointed out all the outstanding 2nd round draft picks by Danny Ainge.  Furthermore, he pulled off two blockbuster trades, bringing Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett to the Celtics.  Kupchak has only had one.
    Posted by bobheckler[/QUOTE]

    DA's made 2 blockbuster trades to Kupchaks 1, yet Kupchaks won 4 championships as GM since 2000. I call that quality over quantity
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : DA's made 2 blockbuster trades to Kupchaks 1, yet Kupchaks won 4 championships as GM since 2000. I call that quality over quantity
    Posted by VinniePapaGiorgio[/QUOTE]

    Using your logic - the lakers were 32-17, and in second place when Kupchak made his trade, it brought the lakers to first place. The Celtics were a last place team, and those two trades brought them a title.  That is quality  AND quantity.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : Using your logic - the lakers were 32-17, and in second place when Kupchak made his trade, it brought the lakers to first place. The Celtics were a last place team, and those two trades brought them a title.  That is quality  AND quantity.
    Posted by BirdandCowens[/QUOTE]

    Yeah you could say that, going worse to first rarely ever happens. But if DA was such a great GM his team should never have been at the bottom in the first place.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : Yeah you could say that, going worse to first rarely ever happens. But if DA was such a great GM his team should never have been at the bottom in the first place.
    Posted by VinniePapaGiorgio[/QUOTE]

    I believe that was Pitino and The Memphis GM that caused that mess. He could have turned it around quicker, but no one wanted our players until we got Jefferson!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : I believe that was Pitino and The Memphis GM that caused that mess. He could have turned it around quicker, but no one wanted our players until we got Jefferson!
    Posted by BirdandCowens[/QUOTE]

    Jefferson was ugly as shhhhh but he has a nice game
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Bird and Cowens is right West was a consultant and of course that is what made the trade so suspicious and obvious.  Kupchak inherited all the great moves from West(Kobe, Shaq, Fisher,and etc.) so your suggestion Kupchak is responsible for four titles is ridiculous.  Let me ask you VinnePapaGiorgio what GM could not have  won with the personnel West gave the Lakers and the frontrunner Phil Jackson coaching.  By the way Vinnie who are you? What was your moniker before these ten posts.  You are civil which I appreciate but you don't make much sense. I believe you would be much happier on a Laker BB.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]Bird and Cowens is right West was a consultant and of course that is what made the trade so suspicious and obvious.  Kupchak inherited all the great moves from West(Kobe, Shaq, Fisher,and etc.) so your suggestion Kupchak is responsible for four titles is ridiculous.  Let me ask you VinnePapaGiorgio what GM could not have  won with the personnel West gave the Lakers and the frontrunner Phil Jackson coaching.  By the way Vinnie who are you? What was your moniker before these ten posts.  You are civil which I appreciate but you don't make much sense. I believe you would be much happier on a Laker BB.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]


    Thanks for your concern about my emotional well-being but I'm plenty happy where I'm at. I know most Celtic fans won't like me and disagree with me just because I root for the Lakers, but I could care less. I dont let my love for the Lakers influence any of my opinions. I'm the first to admit that Red, along with John Wooden, is the best basketball coach that ever lived. I'm also one of the few that believe that Bill Russell was the greatest b-ball player of all-time, followed by Jordan, Magic, and then Bird. I'm also not blind to the fact that Kupchak might not have put the team together, but he has done a great job keeping most of the core together and keeping them competitive. For you to dismiss Kupchak because he inherited Kobe and Fisher (even though Fisher left for a couple years to the Warriors and Jazz) seems wrong, because from what I remember Ainge didn't exactly draft Pierce. Actually I dont remember Ainge doing much before he signed KG and Ray, unless you consider him drafting decent talent in the middle of the first rounds. Well, that and getting a towel thrown at him by Robert Horry when they were both on the Suns.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BirdandCowens. Show BirdandCowens's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak? : Thanks for your concern about my emotional well-being but I'm plenty happy where I'm at. I know most Celtic fans won't like me and disagree with me just because I root for the Lakers, but I could care less. I dont let my love for the Lakers influence any of my opinions. I'm the first to admit that Red, along with John Wooden, is the best basketball coach that ever lived. I'm also one of the few that believe that Bill Russell was the greatest b-ball player of all-time, followed by Jordan, Magic, and then Bird. I'm also not blind to the fact that Kupchak might not have put the team together, but he has done a great job keeping most of the core together and keeping them competitive. For you to dismiss Kupchak because he inherited Kobe and Fisher (even though Fisher left for a couple years to the Warriors and Jazz) seems wrong, because from what I remember Ainge didn't exactly draft Pierce. Actually I dont remember Ainge doing much before he signed KG and Ray, unless you consider him drafting decent talent in the middle of the first rounds. Well, that and getting a towel thrown at him by Robert Horry when they were both on the Suns.
    Posted by VinniePapaGiorgio[/QUOTE]

    I enjoy your posts for the most part.  We just want objective lakers fans on here.  Hopefully, you have read some of your other "fans" posts on here and know what we are talking about.  BUT, your posts seem decent (except for the one about crawling back to mom,that was unnecessary).  Also, kudos to you for not putting phony Phil ahead of Red.  For being so objective, I will now respond to your most hated lakers post!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Let us decide who is better in 5 years time? I can't give an honest answer to this question at the moment.

    Kupchak inherited a great side. Ainge built one and Ainge does appear to have a great eye to talent when it comes to the draft.

    Ainge will be put to the test when he has to build a team around Rondo.

    Overall though the Lakers have had better overall management for a long time. Celtics had to go though so much pain since the retirement of Bird and his group. Lewis aside the Celtics should never had gone though what they did in the wilderness years. Bad owners and bad management. 

     
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from VinniePapaGiorgio. Show VinniePapaGiorgio's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    I agree with RUWorthy, watching that 30 for 30 doc on Len Bias was heartbreaking. I honestly think that his death and Reggie Lewis' a couple years later cast a shadow on the Celtics that didn't disappear until they drafted Pierce in '98. I'm happy that the Celtics are back up top again, the only way I feel the Lakers actually earn their championships is when they beat Boston.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RUWorthy. Show RUWorthy's posts

    Re: Who's better Ainge or Kupchak?

    Yeah, the death of Bias was horrible. You never know what the guy could have been but I appreciate the wisdom of the people at the Celtics who rated him as highly as they did. They must have thought he'd be a special player.

    I think McHale would have had a longer career if Bias was there to take the pressure off him after he injured his foot in 1987. 

    Celtics are on top and I think Ainge may keep them among the elite in the East. He and the owners just need to keep an aggressive mindset when it comes to the team. Something missing back in the mid nineties. 
     
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