Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Bird-to-DJ's comment:

    Fierce - I don't get your fixation on Big Al.  Yes he is better offensively than KG and we will be slightly better rebounding wise but only because he'll play more minutes not because he is a better rebounder - but we will be SIGNIFICANTLY worse defensively.  But more importantly, you are always talking about gathering "assets" which I get.  This doesn't do that.  Trading KG for Al means you are establishing a core moving forward - Rondo, JG, Big Al and hoping the Sully emerges.  (AB will not bring a major piece in return at this point in his career).  You ar enot gathering assets - as they are all older and more $$.  You can argue that the core is tradeable.  Sure anything can happen, but we didn't trade players pushing late 20's to get KG & RA, we traded young.  I am open to examples (as I can't think of any right now...) where two players both making $10M+ were traded for one great player...

    You keep talking about the next banner and avoiding perenially being in the "purgatory" of a 5-8 seed talent.  I get that - but Big Al for KG as the major move off season basically guarantees that outcome, which is why I don't get why you are pushing it.  (Additionally, I doubt seriously that some GM won't offer him more than the $9-$10M you think we can sign him for.).  If given the choice, I would rather play out next year with KG and then look at the next set of options than commit to 5yrs of Big Al probably starting more at the $12M level and notyour $9M... I could certainly be wrong but don't think $9M is realistic for someone who averaged 18/9 last this year.

      I'm with you, I really like Big Al as a player and he would help the team, But he wouldn't help us enough to enable us to compete with the Heat, and "purgatory" is not a place i want the Celtics to be stuck in. That cycle could go on forever.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

     

    I seriously doubt you could get Jefferson for Bradley and loose parts, but if you could, then yeah, I agree with your thinking and analysis here. 

    Bradley had a rough playoffs overall and his stock is down...

     



    No, that's not what I mean.

     

    If the Celts amnesty Pierce and KG retires, the Celts will more or less have a payroll of 46m. That means they can sign Big Al for 13m per year that starts at 9m or 10m on the first year of his contract.

    Avery Bradley and Courtney Lee are redundant. Both are defensive guards. If Ainge can package one of them, or both, and the Celts' 16th pick in this year's draft to get a lottery pick, the Celts might end up getting a future star. 

    Basically what I'm saying is AB or Lee, or both, and the 16th pick for a lottery pick.

    I prefer the Celts getting Shabazz Muhammad.

    Shabazz can do it all offensively.



    How do you know that Shabazz can do it all? I watched several games with UCLA and he didnt look like anything special.  I know there was a lot of hype about him and maybe it was the system but I sure didnt seeing him doing it all offensively.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    I'd rather have Perkins than Al Jefferson.



    Youre nuts then.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from VeniceSox. Show VeniceSox's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    In response to Bird-to-DJ's comment:

     

    Fierce - I don't get your fixation on Big Al.  Yes he is better offensively than KG and we will be slightly better rebounding wise but only because he'll play more minutes not because he is a better rebounder - but we will be SIGNIFICANTLY worse defensively.  But more importantly, you are always talking about gathering "assets" which I get.  This doesn't do that.  Trading KG for Al means you are establishing a core moving forward - Rondo, JG, Big Al and hoping the Sully emerges.  (AB will not bring a major piece in return at this point in his career).  You ar enot gathering assets - as they are all older and more $$.  You can argue that the core is tradeable.  Sure anything can happen, but we didn't trade players pushing late 20's to get KG & RA, we traded young.  I am open to examples (as I can't think of any right now...) where two players both making $10M+ were traded for one great player...

    You keep talking about the next banner and avoiding perenially being in the "purgatory" of a 5-8 seed talent.  I get that - but Big Al for KG as the major move off season basically guarantees that outcome, which is why I don't get why you are pushing it.  (Additionally, I doubt seriously that some GM won't offer him more than the $9-$10M you think we can sign him for.).  If given the choice, I would rather play out next year with KG and then look at the next set of options than commit to 5yrs of Big Al probably starting more at the $12M level and notyour $9M... I could certainly be wrong but don't think $9M is realistic for someone who averaged 18/9 last this year.

     

      I'm with you, I really like Big Al as a player and he would help the team, But he wouldn't help us enough to enable us to compete with the Heat, and "purgatory" is not a place i want the Celtics to be stuck in. That cycle could go on forever.


     



    Ok thats fine then what is your suggestion?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    At the draft trade Bass and pick 16 for Perk and pick 12. This move works according to the trade machine/salries (actually adds 1 win to OKC), then saves the Thunder 2 million over the next 2 years. Both players could use a change of scenery, the fanbases would both view the swap as a win for their side as well.

    OKC can of course amnesty Perk and save more, but they would be at 65 million with Bass. Then they have pick 16, Kevin Martin's (possible) extension and the MLE in play. I don't think they'd be that big of a tax team to really justify getting nothing for their strating Center when they are a contender. Bass fits their style and fills a need, esp with Ibaka and Collins playing more 5 w Perk gone.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Gasthoerer's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    Down the stretch this year Big Al had 21.5 point and 10.5 rebound averages in April as Utah battled for a final playoff spot. They went 5-3 that month, needing to go at least 6-2 or likely 7-1 to have made it in.

    In his last 3 games Al averaged 28 points and 12.3 rebounds as the Jazz went 2-1. I feel he is a winner, but only as a team's 3rd best player and certainly as more of a PF than C.

     

     

    Thanks for the inside! Really interesting, maybe I underestimate Big Al. The Problem: If he is that good, he will be a) very expensive next year and b) make us fight for seed 5-8. That means delaying the rebuilt for 5 more years.



    You're welcome, yeah Al is definitely a winne ron the offensive end, he cares, he has heart and drive. His D just stinks way worse then you would like. but put him alongside KG and hopefully another defense-minded big (like Perk) who are taller than him, or put him with a rebound machine like Sully, and he will be ok.

    He also gets 2.6 offensive boards a game. Sully was getting 2 a game before he got hurt in only 20 mins. KG averaged 1.1 the past 3 seasons. Bass 1.6 in each of the last 2. So that is 2 more offensive boards a game with those 2 guys seeing big mins on this team. HUGE.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    If we swapped Bass and pick 16 for Perk and pick 12 I'd look at 4 guards with that selection:

    Muhammad, Oladipo, McCollum and Carter-Williams. I like them in that order. Muhammad likely won't slide that far but he has the most upside to actually be an all-star. Oladipo is a more explosive Tony Alle. McCollum a poor mans Lillard/Curry and Carter-Williams a very interesting prospect as a 6'6" PG who could pair well off the bench with Avery.

    Anyhow, that is my plan:

    C - KG (20 mins), Perk (20m), Al (8m)

    PF - Big Al (24m), Sully (16m), Green (8m)

    SF - Green (24m), Pierce (24m)

    SG - Avery (28m), pick #12 or Crawford (20m)

    PG - Rondo (34m), Terry (14m)  

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to VeniceSox's comment:

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

     

    In response to Bird-to-DJ's comment:

     

    Fierce - I don't get your fixation on Big Al.  Yes he is better offensively than KG and we will be slightly better rebounding wise but only because he'll play more minutes not because he is a better rebounder - but we will be SIGNIFICANTLY worse defensively.  But more importantly, you are always talking about gathering "assets" which I get.  This doesn't do that.  Trading KG for Al means you are establishing a core moving forward - Rondo, JG, Big Al and hoping the Sully emerges.  (AB will not bring a major piece in return at this point in his career).  You ar enot gathering assets - as they are all older and more $$.  You can argue that the core is tradeable.  Sure anything can happen, but we didn't trade players pushing late 20's to get KG & RA, we traded young.  I am open to examples (as I can't think of any right now...) where two players both making $10M+ were traded for one great player...

    You keep talking about the next banner and avoiding perenially being in the "purgatory" of a 5-8 seed talent.  I get that - but Big Al for KG as the major move off season basically guarantees that outcome, which is why I don't get why you are pushing it.  (Additionally, I doubt seriously that some GM won't offer him more than the $9-$10M you think we can sign him for.).  If given the choice, I would rather play out next year with KG and then look at the next set of options than commit to 5yrs of Big Al probably starting more at the $12M level and notyour $9M... I could certainly be wrong but don't think $9M is realistic for someone who averaged 18/9 last this year.

     

      I'm with you, I really like Big Al as a player and he would help the team, But he wouldn't help us enough to enable us to compete with the Heat, and "purgatory" is not a place i want the Celtics to be stuck in. That cycle could go on forever.


     

     



    Ok thats fine then what is your suggestion?

     

      As you know , there are no quick fixes.  I think the draft is our best way to go, but not drafting where we have been drafting lately. We have to get bad and hope we get lucky and get a player who turns into a super star, because you will not win in this league without star power.  If we stay where we are in the draft this year, i would probably take Archie Goodwin from Kentucky, he didn't have a great year, but he is still only 18, or may have just turned 19, with a lot of potential as a shooting guard. I would try to trade Bradley for a #1 in next years draft. I would see what i could get for Rondo, if i could get a guy like cousins, i would pull the trigger.  Look at OKC and the Warriors, they built their teams through the draft and are gonna be contenders for a long time now. It will take time as well as luck, but that would be how i would try and rebuild the Celtics...


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    In response to Bird-to-DJ's comment:

     

    Fierce - I don't get your fixation on Big Al.  Yes he is better offensively than KG and we will be slightly better rebounding wise but only because he'll play more minutes not because he is a better rebounder - but we will be SIGNIFICANTLY worse defensively.  But more importantly, you are always talking about gathering "assets" which I get.  This doesn't do that.  Trading KG for Al means you are establishing a core moving forward - Rondo, JG, Big Al and hoping the Sully emerges.  (AB will not bring a major piece in return at this point in his career).  You ar enot gathering assets - as they are all older and more $$.  You can argue that the core is tradeable.  Sure anything can happen, but we didn't trade players pushing late 20's to get KG & RA, we traded young.  I am open to examples (as I can't think of any right now...) where two players both making $10M+ were traded for one great player...

    You keep talking about the next banner and avoiding perenially being in the "purgatory" of a 5-8 seed talent.  I get that - but Big Al for KG as the major move off season basically guarantees that outcome, which is why I don't get why you are pushing it.  (Additionally, I doubt seriously that some GM won't offer him more than the $9-$10M you think we can sign him for.).  If given the choice, I would rather play out next year with KG and then look at the next set of options than commit to 5yrs of Big Al probably starting more at the $12M level and notyour $9M... I could certainly be wrong but don't think $9M is realistic for someone who averaged 18/9 last this year.

     

      I'm with you, I really like Big Al as a player and he would help the team, But he wouldn't help us enough to enable us to compete with the Heat, and "purgatory" is not a place i want the Celtics to be stuck in. That cycle could go on forever.


     



    The Celtic's won't be contenders with Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sully and a lotto pick in the 6-12 range either. They will be in purgatory with or without Al. They need a superstar added to the 4 solid young guys they already have.

    Al as a free agent without PP and KG has us picking in the mid to late teens again instead of 6-12.


    Al in a sign and trade with PP and KG still on this team and I think we'd be contenders (with a healthy Rondo, Green and Sully all rocking it and improving).

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from srinivasa. Show srinivasa's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    KG was still the best defensive big during the regular season according to +/-,

    Al Jefferson was the worst. So if KG is gone next season, Jefferson with Green, Sully, Bradley and Rondo will make us a contender?

    That's delusional, we'll be fighting for the 8th seed. Miami, Chicago, Indiana, NY, Brooklyn are out of our reach, Cleveland and Detroit are on the rise and Atlanta has cap space.

    Jefferson makes no sense, it would set the franchise back. We already have too many average pieces on this roster who are nearly impossible to trade, so we should add another one?

    It's time to clear the deck, reboot. Rondo-Green are our best players going forward but they don't make us a contender. The next couple of seasons I don't see the C's being anywhere near contention. 

    Ainge faces a daunting task, big Al would make things worse.  And so would Perkins. 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to rameakap's comment:

    At the draft trade Bass and pick 16 for Perk and pick 12. This move works according to the trade machine/salries (actually adds 1 win to OKC), then saves the Thunder 2 million over the next 2 years. Both players could use a change of scenery, the fanbases would both view the swap as a win for their side as well.

    OKC can of course amnesty Perk and save more, but they would be at 65 million with Bass. Then they have pick 16, Kevin Martin's (possible) extension and the MLE in play. I don't think they'd be that big of a tax team to really justify getting nothing for their strating Center when they are a contender. Bass fits their style and fills a need, esp with Ibaka and Collins playing more 5 w Perk gone.

     



    Great, then Boston goes backwards with a center that's proven to be awful without KG because he's sooo slow to get up and down and side to side and has no offense. Enough with the Perkins stuff - he wasn't worth the $ then and he's still not worth the $.  His minutes dwindled in OKC for a very good reason.  I think most people would rather get Nate back.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to painter's comment:

     

    Great, then Boston goes backwards with a center that's proven to be awful without KG because he's sooo slow to get up and down and side to side and has no offense. Enough with the Perkins stuff - he wasn't worth the $ then and he's still not worth the $.  His minutes dwindled in OKC for a very good reason.  I think most people would rather get Nate back.

     



    This!!!!!!

    No Big Al or Perkins!!!!!!!!

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kdp59. Show kdp59's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Al Jefferson?

    God, no.

     



    Then who would you sign if KG retires?

     



    Splitter for about $8M

    Dalembert for about $4.

     

    C-Splitter

    C-Dalembert

    C-Melo

    PF-Bass

    PF-Sullinger

    PF- Randolph?

    PF/SF- #16 Draft pick

    SF-Green

    SF-J Dudley (Phoe) trade for Lee or Terry

    SG- A. Bradley

    SG- Lee or Terry

    SG- Williams

    PG- Rondo

    PG- CJ Watson (BKL) trade for Crawford

     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to painter's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    At the draft trade Bass and pick 16 for Perk and pick 12. This move works according to the trade machine/salries (actually adds 1 win to OKC), then saves the Thunder 2 million over the next 2 years. Both players could use a change of scenery, the fanbases would both view the swap as a win for their side as well.

    OKC can of course amnesty Perk and save more, but they would be at 65 million with Bass. Then they have pick 16, Kevin Martin's (possible) extension and the MLE in play. I don't think they'd be that big of a tax team to really justify getting nothing for their strating Center when they are a contender. Bass fits their style and fills a need, esp with Ibaka and Collins playing more 5 w Perk gone.

     

     



    Great, then Boston goes backwards with a center that's proven to be awful without KG because he's sooo slow to get up and down and side to side and has no offense. Enough with the Perkins stuff - he wasn't worth the $ then and he's still not worth the $.  His minutes dwindled in OKC for a very good reason.  I think most people would rather get Nate back.

     




    If you have Sully and Green at PF and KG at C, even before adding Al, which is the bigger deal than Perk, we are talking about adding an enforcer type big for 18-22 mins a game who protects KG and Rondo, hard fouls, etc.

    He is a better fit for our style than OKC's and still rebounds and blocks shots at a better rate than Bass. I'd still take Perk guarding a 6'9" and up big over Bass. also, we'd jump 4 picks in the draft in my proposed trade. that is HUGE

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kdp59. Show kdp59's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Mployee8's comment:

    In response to kdp59's comment:

     

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

     

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

     

    Al Jefferson?

    God, no.

     



    Then who would you sign if KG retires?

     

     



    Splitter for about $8M

     

    Dalembert for about $4.

     

    C-Splitter

    C-Dalembert

    C-Melo

    PF-Bass

    PF-Sullinger

    PF- Randolph?

    PF/SF- #16 Draft pick

    SF-Green

    SF-J Dudley (Phoe) trade for Lee or Terry

    SG- A. Bradley

    SG- Lee or Terry

    SG- Williams

    PG- Rondo

    PG- CJ Watson (BKL) trade for Crawford

     




     

    Why Dalembert when you could go young with Cole Aldrich for a few million?




    I think he still has game and was used badly by Milwaukee this season...but insert Aldrich over Dalembert if you want to younger......IN Fact how about maybe Speights instead at about $4M.

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to damfuno's comment:

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    In response to painter's comment:

     

    In response to rameakap's comment:

     

    At the draft trade Bass and pick 16 for Perk and pick 12. This move works according to the trade machine/salries (actually adds 1 win to OKC), then saves the Thunder 2 million over the next 2 years. Both players could use a change of scenery, the fanbases would both view the swap as a win for their side as well.

    OKC can of course amnesty Perk and save more, but they would be at 65 million with Bass. Then they have pick 16, Kevin Martin's (possible) extension and the MLE in play. I don't think they'd be that big of a tax team to really justify getting nothing for their strating Center when they are a contender. Bass fits their style and fills a need, esp with Ibaka and Collins playing more 5 w Perk gone.

     

     



    Great, then Boston goes backwards with a center that's proven to be awful without KG because he's sooo slow to get up and down and side to side and has no offense. Enough with the Perkins stuff - he wasn't worth the $ then and he's still not worth the $.  His minutes dwindled in OKC for a very good reason.  I think most people would rather get Nate back.

     

     




    If you have Sully and Green at PF and KG at C, even before adding Al, which is the bigger deal than Perk, we are talking about adding an enforcer type big for 18-22 mins a game who protects KG and Rondo, hard fouls, etc.

     

    He is a better fit for our style than OKC's and still rebounds and blocks shots at a better rate than Bass. I'd still take Perk guarding a 6'9" and up big over Bass. also, we'd jump 4 picks in the draft in my proposed trade. that is HUGE

     



    The only way we can even consider getting Jefferson is if PP and KG are gone.

     




    No, there is the sign and trade option with Utah

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Why Al Jefferson Makes Sense

    In response to Fierce34's comment:

    Jeff Green - 26 years old

    Rondo - 27 years old

    Sully - 21 years old

    Those are the 3 Celtic players that you can build on. Or you can trade them for a great player if the opportunity arises.

    Avery Bradley is the most tradable Celtic right now. He has high value because of his defense, especially if he makes 1st team All-NBA Defensive this season, which I think he will.

    So if you add an Al Jefferson, who's only 27 years old, you'll have a borderline All-Star player who gives you scoring and rebounding. He can be a 2nd or 3rd option on offense. Giving him a 5-year contract with a 1st year salary of 9m or 10m won't hurt the team financially.



    Bingo!!!!!! We are definitely on the same page! Bring Big Al home DA!! 

     
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