Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

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    Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    This thread isn't about whether the Celtics will or won't make the playoffs. It's about why making the post-season is in their best interests as a franchise. I see several reasons, some of which slightly overlap:

    1. Attracting impact free agents. Top players don't want to sign with a non-contender. Even though we know that the Celtics aren't championship caliber this year, there's still a general perception that they are an elite team of winning pedigree that can be dangerous in a big game. Miss the playoffs, and the Celtics will be lumped together with the Charlottes, Clevelands, Milwaukees, and Torontos, instead of the San Antonios and Orlandos. It would be disastrous for luring the kinds of players needed for a championship run.

    2. The 98% likelihood difference between a non-lottery Celtics selection and lottery selection is negligible: 13th vs. 14th-16th. For the Celtics to draft earlier than 13th, they would need the 10th place Cavaliers to finish at least 7 games better than the Celtics the rest of the way. Even if the Celtics only went a ridiculously bad 5-16, the Cavaliers would need to go 12-10 to catch them for the No. 9 spot. Cleveland has no reason to play that "well" the rest of the way. Nor will the Celtics play that poorly. Thus, if the probable choice is tank and take the 13th pick or draft 14th-16th, go on a playoff run, and remain a decent free agent destination, I don't see the advantage to losing games for an imperceptible gain. If the Celtics desperately wanted whoever goes 13th overall, or even 10th, 11th, or 12th, they could probably put together a reasonable package and make it happen anyway. Deals to move up 1-3 spots transpire with regularity. It often doesn't take much more than swapping first round selections, plus a conditional future pick and/or expendable bench player.

    3. Coaxing current players to re-sign for hometown discounts. If the Celtics are no longer a playoff team, we can forget about luring Garnett and Allen back on short dollars, along with Bass and Pietrus for even less. Making the post-season, possibly winning a round, and pushing Chicago or Miami with a tough second round series, keeps the veterans in a competitive spirit, hungry to win with the Celtics. There are no greater motivations in sports than vengeance and redemption. It allows Ainge to convince the veterans that the team is only a player or two away from beating the Bulls or Heat the following year. In reality, that's not even a lie. But that's a tougher sell when you don't make the playoffs and fail as cataclysmically as Fiercest desires. It matters for the younger players too. Coming up in a losing atmosphere tends to adversely impact a player's development. Some guys never outgrow losing and it follows them wherever they go for the rest of their careers (example: Al Jefferson). At the very least it slows their progress (examples: Chauncey Billups, Tyson Chandler).

    4. Making money. Ownership earns $1 million per home playoff game. While fans might think they couldn't care less about Grousbeck's coffers, the reality is that an owner will be less likely to spend into the luxury tax if he's not going to make that money back elsewhere. If the Celtics win a 7-game first round series, that's at least $3 million. Add another pair of home games in a second round defeat and that's a total of $5 million. That's not pocket change. That pays an entire annual MLE contract.

    5. Exposure. Playoff teams receive national publicity. National publicity generates interest and additional money in the form of paraphernalia sales, ticket revenue, and free agent recruitment. There also seems to be a direct correlation between Rajon Rondo triple-doubles and nationally televised games. Rondo likes to shine on the big stage. Other players revel in attention too. Right now, the Celtics seem to be on national TV about once a week, on average. Miss the playoffs, and they'll lose that standing.

    Tank and the Celtics get the 13th pick. Win and they get the 14th-16th pick and so much more.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    Good analysis.  The Celtics aren't going to tank though.  It would make zero sense. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Gravelten4. Show Gravelten4's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    Good, sane points. What a rarity these days.:)Got me thinking on a Tuesday afternoon...thanks!
     
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    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]This thread isn't about whether the Celtics will or won't make the playoffs. It's about why making the post-season is in their best interests as a franchise. I see several reasons, some of which slightly overlap: 1. Attracting impact free agents. Top players don't want to sign with a non-contender. Even though we know that the Celtics aren't championship caliber this year, there's still a general perception that they are an elite team of winning pedigree that can be dangerous in a big game. Miss the playoffs, and the Celtics will be lumped together with the Charlottes, Clevelands, Milwaukees, and Torontos, instead of the San Antonios and Orlandos. It would be disastrous for luring the kinds of players needed for a championship run. 2. The 98% likelihood difference between a non-lottery Celtics selection and lottery selection is negligible: 13th vs. 14th-16th. For the Celtics to draft earlier than 13th, they would need the 10th place Cavaliers to finish at least 7 games better than the Celtics the rest of the way. Even if the Celtics only went a ridiculously bad 5-16, the Cavaliers would need to go 12-10 to catch them for the No. 9 spot. Cleveland has no reason to play that "well" the rest of the way. Nor will the Celtics play that poorly. Thus, if the probable choice is tank and take the 13th pick or draft 14th-16th, go on a playoff run, and remain a decent free agent destination, I don't see the advantage to losing games for an imperceptible gain. If the Celtics desperately wanted whoever goes 13th overall, or even 10th, 11th, or 12th, they could probably put together a reasonable package and make it happen anyway. Deals to move up 1-3 spots transpire with regularity. It often doesn't take much more than swapping first round selections, plus a conditional future pick and/or expendable bench player. 3. Coaxing current players to re-sign for hometown discounts. If the Celtics are no longer a playoff team, we can forget about luring Garnett and Allen back on short dollars, along with Bass and Pietrus for even less. Making the post-season, possibly winning a round, and pushing Chicago or Miami with a tough second round series, keeps the veterans in a competitive spirit, hungry to win with the Celtics. There are no greater motivations in sports than vengeance and redemption. It allows Ainge to convince the veterans that the team is only a player or two away from beating the Bulls or Heat the following year. In reality, that's not even a lie. But that's a tougher sell when you don't make the playoffs and fail as cataclysmically as Fiercest desires. It matters for the younger players too. Coming up in a losing atmosphere tends to adversely impact a player's development. Some guys never outgrow losing and it follows them wherever they go for the rest of their careers (example: Al Jefferson). At the very least it slows their progress (examples: Chauncey Billups, Tyson Chandler). 4. Making money. Ownership earns $1 million per home playoff game. While fans might think they couldn't care less about Grousbeck's coffers, the reality is that an owner will be less likely to spend into the luxury tax if he's not going to make that money back elsewhere. If the Celtics win a 7-game first round series, that's at least $3 million. Add another pair of home games in a second round defeat and that's a total of $5 million. That's not pocket change. That pays an entire annual MLE contract. 5. Exposure. Playoff teams receive national publicity. National publicity generates interest and additional money in the form of paraphernalia sales, ticket revenue, and free agent recruitment. There also seems to be a direct correlation between Rajon Rondo triple-doubles and nationally televised games. Rondo likes to shine on the big stage. Other players revel in attention too. Right now, the Celtics seem to be on national TV about once a week, on average. Miss the playoffs, and they'll lose that standing. Tank and the Celtics get the 13th pick. Win and they get the 14th-16th pick and so much more.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    No team with no future building blocks and vastly inferior to the current contenders should be considering winning as the best option.....  making the playoffs is the worst case scenario....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    No team with no future building blocks and vastly inferior to the current contenders should be considering winning as the best option.....  making the playoffs is the worst case scenario....

    It's only the worst case scenario if the alternative would be finishing with one of the five worst records in the league and a good chance at a top 3 pick. Even then, there are no guarantees because teams with top picks are so enamored by 7-footers that they end up drafting the Hasheem Thabeets, Michael Olowokandis, and Kwame Browns, who are no better than typical late first rounders and second rounders.

    Check the standings, Dudder. If the Celtics somehow miss the playoffs, they'll finish in 9th, not 10th, 11th, or somewhere meaningfully low. The Cavaliers aren't going to finish 7 games better than the Celtics over the final 21 games. Picking 13th-14th or 15th-16th makes almost no difference, and if Ainge really thinks it does, he can easily consumate a draft day deal to move up a spot or two. Every year, there seem to be a couple of trades where a team moves up a little by throwing in a future pick, a second rounder, or an unimportant bench player. Explain why you think picking 13th or 14th is so much better than picking 15th or 16th, given the aforementioned benefits of qualifying for post-season play.

    If you're going to lose, you have to lose badly. Barely missing out doesn't get a team anywhere. You might as well make the playoffs if the alternative is 9th place, and that really is the only alternative this year.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : No team with no future building blocks and vastly inferior to the current contenders should be considering winning as the best option.....  making the playoffs is the worst case scenario....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    Cool so name which teams you think should try and win.  By your logic there are 20 teams in the NBA that are going to try and lose the rest of their games.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]No team with no future building blocks and vastly inferior to the current contenders should be considering winning as the best option.....  making the playoffs is the worst case scenario.... It's only the worst case scenario if the alternative would be finishing with one of the five worst records in the league and a good chance at a top 3 pick. Even then, there are no guarantees because teams with top picks are so enamored by 7-footers that they end up drafting the Hasheem Thabeets, Michael Olowokandis, and Kwame Browns, who are no better than typical late first rounders and second rounders. Check the standings, Dudder. If the Celtics somehow miss the playoffs, they'll finish in 9th, not 10th, 11th, or somewhere meaningfully low. The Cavaliers aren't going to finish 7 games better than the Celtics over the final 21 games. Picking 13th-14th or 15th-16th makes almost no difference, and if Ainge really thinks it does, he can easily consumate a draft day deal to move up a spot or two. Every year, there seem to be a couple of trades where a team moves up a little by throwing in a future pick, a second rounder, or an unimportant bench player. Explain why you think picking 13th or 14th is so much better than picking 15th or 16th, given the aforementioned benefits of qualifying for post-season play. If you're going to lose, you have to lose badly. Barely missing out doesn't get a team anywhere. You might as well make the playoffs if the alternative is 9th place, and that really is the only alternative this year.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]

    And the odds are that every player that get in any of the positions you mention will be better than every player that is currently on the roster..... I believe 22 of the 24 all-stars are lottery picks... so while you can get the occasional Kwame Brown in the lottery, you cannot get D Howard, Bosh, LeBron, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Shaq, Kobe, melo, Amare, Rose, Williams, CP3, etc. outside of the lottery... so keeping hoping that the lotter is not the answer and in the meantime... the finals will include some combination of Dirk, Deng, Noah, Rose, Marion, Kidd, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Bynum, Gasol, Duncan, etc.... all lottery picks... keep dreaming.,......
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]This thread isn't about whether the Celtics will or won't make the playoffs. It's about why making the post-season is in their best interests as a franchise. I see several reasons, some of which slightly overlap: 1. Attracting impact free agents. Top players don't want to sign with a non-contender. Even though we know that the Celtics aren't championship caliber this year, there's still a general perception that they are an elite team of winning pedigree that can be dangerous in a big game. Miss the playoffs, and the Celtics will be lumped together with the Charlottes, Clevelands, Milwaukees, and Torontos, instead of the San Antonios and Orlandos. It would be disastrous for luring the kinds of players needed for a championship run. 2. The 98% likelihood difference between a non-lottery Celtics selection and lottery selection is negligible: 13th vs. 14th-16th. For the Celtics to draft earlier than 13th, they would need the 10th place Cavaliers to finish at least 7 games better than the Celtics the rest of the way. Even if the Celtics only went a ridiculously bad 5-16, the Cavaliers would need to go 12-10 to catch them for the No. 9 spot. Cleveland has no reason to play that "well" the rest of the way. Nor will the Celtics play that poorly. Thus, if the probable choice is tank and take the 13th pick or draft 14th-16th, go on a playoff run, and remain a decent free agent destination, I don't see the advantage to losing games for an imperceptible gain. If the Celtics desperately wanted whoever goes 13th overall, or even 10th, 11th, or 12th, they could probably put together a reasonable package and make it happen anyway. Deals to move up 1-3 spots transpire with regularity. It often doesn't take much more than swapping first round selections, plus a conditional future pick and/or expendable bench player. 3. Coaxing current players to re-sign for hometown discounts. If the Celtics are no longer a playoff team, we can forget about luring Garnett and Allen back on short dollars, along with Bass and Pietrus for even less. Making the post-season, possibly winning a round, and pushing Chicago or Miami with a tough second round series, keeps the veterans in a competitive spirit, hungry to win with the Celtics. There are no greater motivations in sports than vengeance and redemption. It allows Ainge to convince the veterans that the team is only a player or two away from beating the Bulls or Heat the following year. In reality, that's not even a lie. But that's a tougher sell when you don't make the playoffs and fail as cataclysmically as Fiercest desires. It matters for the younger players too. Coming up in a losing atmosphere tends to adversely impact a player's development. Some guys never outgrow losing and it follows them wherever they go for the rest of their careers (example: Al Jefferson). At the very least it slows their progress (examples: Chauncey Billups, Tyson Chandler). 4. Making money. Ownership earns $1 million per home playoff game. While fans might think they couldn't care less about Grousbeck's coffers, the reality is that an owner will be less likely to spend into the luxury tax if he's not going to make that money back elsewhere. If the Celtics win a 7-game first round series, that's at least $3 million. Add another pair of home games in a second round defeat and that's a total of $5 million. That's not pocket change. That pays an entire annual MLE contract. 5. Exposure. Playoff teams receive national publicity. National publicity generates interest and additional money in the form of paraphernalia sales, ticket revenue, and free agent recruitment. There also seems to be a direct correlation between Rajon Rondo triple-doubles and nationally televised games. Rondo likes to shine on the big stage. Other players revel in attention too. Right now, the Celtics seem to be on national TV about once a week, on average. Miss the playoffs, and they'll lose that standing. Tank and the Celtics get the 13th pick. Win and they get the 14th-16th pick and so much more.
    Posted by davidap[/QUOTE]
    I feel a little better, excellent analysis.  I hope it plays out to our advantage.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : I feel a little better, excellent analysis.  I hope it plays out to our advantage.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    I would much rather take my chances not being on TV and getting Durant, Westbrook, Green, and Harden in the lottery and have a chance to be an actual contender than an absolute pretender..... but of course that could not be lost on people with your double digit IQ....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    And the odds are that every player that get in any of the positions you mention will be better than every player that is currently on the roster..... I believe 22 of the 24 all-stars are lottery picks... so while you can get the occasional Kwame Brown in the lottery, you cannot get D Howard, Bosh, LeBron, Wade, Pierce, Dirk, Shaq, Kobe, melo, Amare, Rose, Williams, CP3, etc. outside of the lottery... so keeping hoping that the lotter is not the answer and in the meantime... the finals will include some combination of Dirk, Deng, Noah, Rose, Marion, Kidd, LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Kobe, Bynum, Gasol, Duncan, etc.... all lottery picks... keep dreaming.,......

    On another thread, I reviewed all of the post-Jordan championship teams. Only one of them (Dallas) had more than one homegrown lottery pick.

    I am not questioning the value of lottery picks. Of course you need lottery players to win championships. I am challenging the assertion that you need your own lottery picks to improve. That's just not the case. Every championship team since the late 90s surrounded their one or two homegrown lottery picks with former lottery selections acquired via trade or free agency. The homegrown versus obtained from elsewhere distinction matters because the Celtics are in an excellent position to acquire former lottery picks with their cap flexibility. They can either sign them outright as free agents, or trade for them. There's a very good chance they'll add two such players either this off-season or next.

    No team has won a title with the method you propose. Charlotte, New Jersey, Cleveland, Toronto, and various others have been perennial lottery players and they're still at the bottom. Chicago and Oklahoma City have indeed improved, but ultimately have nothing to show for it, and in Chicago's case, never will because the Bulls are essentially a one man team.

    History shows that the ingredients for winning a championship are:

    1. One homegrown lottery player.
    2. 1-2 other lottery players acquired from outside the organization via trade or free agency.
    3. A winning atmosphere that attracts second-tier stars, willing to sign below their market value for a chance to win a championship.
    4. Shrewd drafting in the late teens, 20s, and second round. (Look at the Spurs roster, or even the '08 Celtics and check where the complementary players were drafted).

    It's okay to lose big once in awhile to get your one homegrown lottery player. Losing by finishing 9th-12th merely begets more losing.
     
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    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    I dont think we are at that point yet that if we didnt make the playoffs this year that noone free agents would feel like they couldnt win here,, I think with Doc's reputation as a players coach and rondo on board, and Pp at a reduced role,  Pietrus off the bench, and some cap room to fill in the final piece, a superstar free agent would believe with their skills they could make this a championship caliber team.
     
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    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In response to "Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs": [QUOTE]In Response to Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : No team with no future building blocks and vastly inferior to the current contenders should be considering winning as the best option.....  making the playoffs is the worst case scenario.... Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE] Missing the playoffs by one or two spots is actually the worst case scenario. The draft choice is one or two positions better than a playoff team, your franchise gets a "loser" reputation, your fans aren't as excited about the team, and the owner makes less money. All worst case. The original post on this thread is an excellent post!!!
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    cabin fever
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    If the Celts lose 15 games most likely the Celts will end up with the 10th pick pending the lottery. Last year the Cavs turned the #8 pick into the 1st pick. Anything can happen in the lottery. That's why you won't know for sure until the Ping-Pong balls are drawn.

    If the Celtics lose 15 out of their remaining 21 games (which is utterly ridiculous to believe), they would still need the Cavaliers to lose no more than 8 games to pass the Celtics in the standings. Do you really think Cleveland is going to finish 15-8?

    The Celtics are significantly closer to 3rd place than they are to 10th place. Realistically, the only conceivable scenario in which the Celtics miss the playoffs is if they finish 9th, and even that seems unlikely with a 3.5 game lead over the Bucks. The Celtics are not going to drop into 10th with a 6.5 game lead over a tanking Cleveland team.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    The Bucks and Knicks have 24 losses right now. While the Celts have 21 losses. If both the Bucks and Knicks make the playoffs then that means the Celts will end up the 9th seed.

    Exactly, and a 9th seed only guarantees a 14th pick, and realistically a 13th because the 9th seed in the West will likely finish with a better record than the 9th seed in the East.

    To get a top 10 pick, the Celtics need to fall behind the 10th place Cavaliers. I don't envision any scenario under which that happens. If the choice is to make the playoffs and get the 15th pick, or miss the playoffs and get the 13th pick, I'd rather just make the playoffs and trade up a couple slots if the guy at 13 is so much better.

    The time to tank was earlier. The difference between a 13th pick and a 15th pick is negligible. Like I said before, if it does matter, teams routinely make draft day deals to move up or down a couple spots. It usually doesn't require more than swapping first round picks and adding a conditional future pick, a second rounder, or an expendable bench player.

    As for the remaining schedule, while I agree with you that the road ahead looks tough for the Celtics, it's not much better for the Bucks, who face the Pacers three more times, the Celtics twice (in games that will essentially count double), the Hawks, the Sixers, the Thunder, the Grizzlies, etc.

    I don't envision the Bucks playing 4 games better than the Celtics the rest of the way, especially if they drop both head to head games.
     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidap. Show davidap's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    It doesn't mean if the Celts end up the 9th seed they will be 14th or 13th. It depends on the regular season record.

    I realize that; I don't share your pessimism. At worst, the Celtics finish with the second best record for non-playoff teams. Keep in mind that the other non-playoff teams are going to tank too.

    You don't believe the Celts will end up with a 6-15 in the next 21 games. Then wait for it!

    Like the Celtics weren't going to win last night in Atlanta?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : I would much rather take my chances not being on TV and getting Durant, Westbrook, Green, and Harden in the lottery and have a chance to be an actual contender than an absolute pretender..... but of course that could not be lost on people with your double digit IQ....
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]

    So recently I have noticed that you keep presenting yourself as some sort of genius while at the same time disparaging the intelligence of other posters.

    Here is a hint.  Showing such an obvious insecurity about your intelligence that you feel a constant need to tell strangers on the internet that you have a high IQ does not make you seem smart. It has the opposite outcome. Please stop embarrassing yourself and just let your words speak for themselves.  You water down your points when you feel the need to insult others intelligence and glorify your own.  Why do you think you cannot be clear in thought without trying to explain how smart you are?



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyCelt2. Show KyCelt2's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : WRONG! Lottery picks are based on win-loss records and the outcome of the lottery. How sure are you the teams in the west would have the same regular season record as the east? Right now only ONE team in the west has 30 losses. The east has 4 teams with at least 30 losses. It doesn't mean if the Celts end up the 9th seed they will be 14th or 13th. It depends on the regular season record. You don't believe the Celts will end up with a 6-15 in the next 21 games. Then wait for it!
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

     I hope you're right, but as you've said before, as long as Doc plays Kg, Pierce, and Ray, they are going to find ways to win games. Look at last nights game, KG made Josh Smith look like a third grader, with the D he put on him. Ray started draining 3's, and all of a sudden we get hot and win the game. Next game Pierce may go off, or Kg and Pierce, or Ray may get hot again. Yeah they're old, and past their prime, but they're also 1st ballot hall of famers, who don't like to lose!!
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from KyCelt2. Show KyCelt2's posts

    Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why the Celtics are better off making the playoffs : That's also what I thought until I saw the April schedule. Stiemsma can't even practice right now. Doc gave the team 2 days off because they can't practice, not enough healthy bodies. Back to the April schedule. The Celts will have their back to back to back games in April. In the first 2 weeks of April the Celts have 9 games. I mean the Celts would be really lucky if they don't suffer any kind of injury. 34, 35, and 36-year olds are not as durable as 25-year olds. No bench, a tough schedule, a poor rebounding team, and exclusively a jump shooting team. The odds are against the Celts.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

     I just looked at the Bucks schedule, they have 14 games at home and 8 on the road. I don't believe they play the Heat any more this season. Guess who they play the last game of the Year! Celtics and bucks last game of the season!! Who you gonna be for, if it comes down to who ever wins goes to the playoffs?
     
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