The Future of UMass Football

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    The Future of UMass Football

    Fellow CAA member Villanova is considering an invite to the Big East, even if they have to play at a soccer stadium for a few years. URI is moving to the Northeast Conference, with Maine possibly following suit. In five years UMass football would be playing in a primarily southern league with the addition of Old Dominion and Georgia State. Essentially the ACC with no revenue.

    A move up should at least be in the study phase so the program could prepare better for such a move, rather than doing it hastily and falling flat on their face like Buffalo.


    http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/09/villanovas_departure_would_hur.html
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Army-of-Obama-Illegals. Show Army-of-Obama-Illegals's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Villanova should join  UMASS. Why go to the Big East for football when that conference will die in the next 2 or 3 years?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Minutemen429. Show Minutemen429's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Even if Villanova, Maine and URI leave the CAA is still a better football conference than the Northeast Conference.  And I don't see Villanova making the jump, its tough for a small enrollment school to make the jump because it will be tough to build fan support.  Trying to make the jump like UConn doesn't make sense right now with the uncertanty of college football.  I'd like to see UMass stay in the CAA.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    Even if Villanova, Maine and URI leave the CAA is still a better football conference than the Northeast Conference.  And I don't see Villanova making the jump, its tough for a small enrollment school to make the jump because it will be tough to build fan support.  Trying to make the jump like UConn doesn't make sense right now with the uncertanty of college football.  I'd like to see UMass stay in the CAA.
    Posted by Minutemen429


    FCS was designed for mid-sized public school and private schools who couldn't compete with the Big Boys at the 1-A level. Schools like Villanova, URI, James Madison, Old Dominion, Holy Cross, etc. It also would be a better fit for Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, and half the Sun Belt.  The Big East already failed in Philly with Temple.

    UMass, as a large public flagship, doesn't really fit the mold for an FCS school. Like UConn the University has simply outgrown I-AA. What school in the country wouldn't want to have the advantages UMass has (Top 5 TV market, 200,000+ alums)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Minutemen429. Show Minutemen429's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football : FCS was designed for mid-sized public school and private schools who couldn't compete with the Big Boys at the 1-A level. Schools like Villanova, URI, James Madison, Old Dominion, Holy Cross, etc. It also would be a better fit for Eastern Michigan, Bowling Green, and half the Sun Belt.  The Big East already failed in Philly with Temple. UMass, as a large public flagship, doesn't really fit the mold for an FCS school. Like UConn the University has simply outgrown I-AA. What school in the country wouldn't want to have the advantages UMass has (Top 5 TV market, 200,000+ alums)
    Posted by redbarchetta88


    I'm not saying I don't think UMass could compete in 1-A, BCS what ever they're calling it now.  But with the looming conference expantion I'm not sure its worth the investment to upgrade the stadium and facilities just to play in the MAC, which I would guess is only slightly more competative than the CAA.  If the Big 10 decides to stay at 12 teams, then I'd be all for UMass trying to be a football member of the Big East.  Going to the Pats game tomorrow so I'll be out till Monday
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Stability is key. I don't know how long the Big East is going to maintain their dual structure, so I wouldn't be shocked if the basketball schools split off to form their own conference. If that happens the breakaway conference might add a few members to get up to 12. Most likely Xavier, Dayton, Saint Joseph's and Temple as they are similar in makeup to Villanova, Notre Dame, etc.

    If that happens, not only is UMass not in the Big East, the rest of the athletic program is stuck in a weakened A-10.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    "Great time to ask the taxpayer to increase funding of  UMAss football.  They would have to bring in consultants who cook the Federal books to even have the nerve to say it would break even in the next ten years.  Wait for a stronger economy then go for it."

    Any realistic UMass fan knows this won't happen. It will have to be an incremental process of adding seats here and there until you reach the FBS minimum and the associated scholarships for football and associated women's sports.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from YeWiseOne. Show YeWiseOne's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    I want to take a slightly different tact.  As it stands now, UMass is playing in a very tough FCS division with many highly respected big name schools.  At the beginning of football season FCS schools often play FBS schools and have been known to beat them while spending $12+ million dollars less.  At the end of the season, the FCS teams compete in a meaningful 3 week national championship tournament which is much more interesting than the 30+ meaningless exhibition bowls with corporate names and half empty stands in which most FBS teams play.

    There are only a handful of big name FBS bowls and they are generally reserved for the universities that travel well.  For UMass to jump to the MAC, for example, would be a giant step backwards, as the MAC really belongs in the FCS, given that their football budgets are the same as FCS universities, they just do not want to admit it. They’re kidding themselves.
    As a geographer, I have a tendency to look at things geographically.  I valued the local rivalries between competing schools like UMass, UNH, UConn, Holy Cross, and BC in the Yankee Conference even if they were ignored nationally.   I am afraid that we are going in the wrong direction when schools with no relationship are traveling 1,000 miles to play a regular college game.  Also, that means the universities need to travel those distances for all their sports if that is the league.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    "At the end of the season, the FCS teams compete in a meaningful 3 week national championship tournament which is much more interesting than the 30+ meaningless exhibition bowls with corporate names and half empty stands in which most FBS teams play."

    Most of those meaningless exhibition bowls have 6-7 figure paydays that dwarf whatever the FCS playoff pays out.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Tulsa, with an enrollment of 4,165 students, just beat Notre Dame. How can they succeed in FBS even though UMass, enrollment 26,360, isn't good enough?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from provpats. Show provpats's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    Tulsa, with an enrollment of 4,165 students, just beat Notre Dame. How can they succeed in FBS even though UMass, enrollment 26,360, isn't good enough?
    Posted by redbarchetta88


    See Appalachian versus Michigan.  File it under " even a blind squirrel finds an occassional acorn".  Also Notre Dame has about 8.500 attending so it is not even close to UMass.  Apple meet orange.

    Notre Dame and its alumni fail to realize that the combination of high academic standards and football excellence no longer mix consistently.  They want to "bring down the thunder" when they can get no more than an April shower.  It becomes a matter of resources.  They will have up and down years in FBS but will get invited to bowls because they travel well
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football : See Appalachian versus Michigan.  File it under " even a blind squirrel finds an occassional acorn".  Also Notre Dame has about 8.500 attending so it is not even close to UMass.  Apple meet orange. Notre Dame and its alumni fail to realize that the combination of high academic standards and football excellence no longer mix consistently.  They want to "bring down the thunder" when they can get no more than an April shower.  It becomes a matter of resources.  They will have up and down years in FBS but will get invited to bowls because they travel well
    Posted by provpats


    I hate to position my self as UMass's Longputter, but the Big East is expanding and UMass won't be invited. The alums had said Big East membership was crucial to getting a new stadium to move up. Now the door is closed because no one in administration wanted to take initiative. In other states this would be a fireable offense for the AD. Here's it's "building a fanbase"

    I have lost faith in my school's athletic program. They're better off closing up shop to save money.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from refuse2lose. Show refuse2lose's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    UMass does a horrible job of keeping alumni involved with the school. They just dont have the fiscal support that other schools have from their alumni. I love going to and following UMass sports but I know I'm in the minority. If they can increase alumni activity I think UMass could be a successful FBS program. 

    Ultimately however, I think UMass is a basketball school. It has a fairly rich bball history and the golden age in the 90s is still relatively recent. I think Derek Kellogg is on the right track in Amherst and a 20+ win season is just around the corner. Football at UMass is good quality and I do enjoy the CAA schedule, much more than I would the MAC. However, I don't want to see the CAA dissolve or the A10 dissolve and then have UMass stuck in some crap football conference while the basketball team is relegated to a one bid conference. That would be disastrous to the programs and the school. You think no one shows up at the Mullins now when we have teams like Xavier and Temple visiting? Just wait.

    I know it's a huge financial risk to move up in football, but the administrators at UMass are just like politicians, they only look a year or two ahead. They can't grasp the big picture. Risks will pay off if you have smart, talented people steering the ship. Ultimately UMass will look back and ask themselves, why didn't we make a move while we had the chance? I hope they do take that chance, before it's too late.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    UMass does a horrible job of keeping alumni involved with the school. They just dont have the fiscal support that other schools have from their alumni. I love going to and following UMass sports but I know I'm in the minority. If they can increase alumni activity I think UMass could be a successful FBS program.  Ultimately however, I think UMass is a basketball school. It has a fairly rich bball history and the golden age in the 90s is still relatively recent. I think Derek Kellogg is on the right track in Amherst and a 20+ win season is just around the corner. Football at UMass is good quality and I do enjoy the CAA schedule, much more than I would the MAC. However, I don't want to see the CAA dissolve or the A10 dissolve and then have UMass stuck in some crap football conference while the basketball team is relegated to a one bid conference. That would be disastrous to the programs and the school. You think no one shows up at the Mullins now when we have teams like Xavier and Temple visiting? Just wait. I know it's a huge financial risk to move up in football, but the administrators at UMass are just like politicians, they only look a year or two ahead. They can't grasp the big picture. Risks will pay off if you have smart, talented people steering the ship. Ultimately UMass will look back and ask themselves, why didn't we make a move while we had the chance? I hope they do take that chance, before it's too late.
    Posted by refuse2lose



    Couldn't agree more, but I feel like those who want to move up are in the minority. UMass isn't a flashy sport college, and New England is mostly populated by frontrunners who will support whoever is good. That's why those who "supported" UMass in the 90s don't show up or are now UConn fans. If UMass does move up they will have at least regional support. Sadly at the FCS level their fanbase is maxed out. No one east of Belchertown will support an "inferior" program.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Looks like UMass might be playing MAC football next year.

    BC fans, please hold your laughter until I finish.

    1. UMass will never play in a big bowl or attract 60,000 to Amherst and that's ok. I have no illusions of that ever happening.

    2. When the Big East splits betweens state schools and catholic schools the catholics will take Xavier and St. Joe's making the A10 a terrible conference.

    3. The CAA is moving south since Rhode Island is dropping a league,
    Northeastern dropped football and the CAA is adding schools like Old Dominion.

    4. FBS doesn't require a new stadium or taxpayer bailouts.  MAC teams get about double the payouts for playing at schools like Michigan. 2 pay games would pay for the season.

    4. B. AGAIN FBS DOESN'T REQUIRE TAXPAYER FUNDING

    5. Gillette and Krafts want to host more football because the 30,000 for the umass game was 3x what they average for a Revolution game. UMass hosting UConn, Penn State or some other slow Big 10 team would keep them happy.

    6. Its about protecting basketball in the long run.  If we don't do anything we'll be looking at a future basketball league of Maine, UMass, UNH, BU, Salem State, Tufts, etc.

    7. I think incremental improvements at Mcguirk would be ok. Put in some seats in one endzone to get capacity to mid 20s and see how that works.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    2. When the Big East splits betweens state schools and catholic schools the catholics will take Xavier and St. Joe's making the A10 a terrible conference.
    Posted by fleetian51


    I'm not much of a football fan, so I'll only comment on your second item.  The MAC hasn't received an at-large invite to the dance in over 10 years,  it's the auto-bid and that's it.  So it's hard to imagine what's left of the A10 being more 'terrible' than that.  Further, UMass has next to nothing in common with a bunch of mid-sized schools from the Mid-West.  A revamped A10 that included some old Yankee Conference programs like Vermont and BU, along with Rhode Island,  Charlotte, and other holdouts, would be much more attractive.

    If - a big if - the BE started raiding the A10 for hoop programs it's not likely that Saint Josephs would be included.  Villanova has Philly covered and I can't imagine they would want the competition.  Dayton, which is also a Catholic School, would be much more likely a candidate.  If they really wanted to stretch the boundaries then Saint Louis, another Catholic, would be another, better candidate than the tiny Philly school.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CarbosFro. Show CarbosFro's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Great move for UMass Football to move up and start playing D1A football.  This will be a great addition to the New England College Football scene.  UMass/UConn, UMass/Syracuse, UMasss/BC, UMass/Army would all be great matchups at Gillette and it will great to see the University of Massachusetts playing on ESPN etc.   Its about time.  They should have upgraded after they won the National Championship for Division 2 football.  Who knows - in 10 yrs they could be in the Big East and they will be probably stomping BC regularly.    
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football : I'm not much of a football fan, so I'll only comment on your second item.  The MAC hasn't received an at-large invite to the dance in over 10 years,  it's the auto-bid and that's it.  So it's hard to imagine what's left of the A10 being more 'terrible' than that.  Further, UMass has next to nothing in common with a bunch of mid-sized schools from the Mid-West.  A revamped A10 that included some old Yankee Conference programs like Vermont and BU, along with Rhode Island,  Charlotte, and other holdouts, would be much more attractive. If - a big if - the BE started raiding the A10 for hoop programs it's not likely that Saint Josephs would be included.  Villanova has Philly covered and I can't imagine they would want the competition.  Dayton, which is also a Catholic School, would be much more likely a candidate.  If they really wanted to stretch the boundaries then Saint Louis, another Catholic, would be another, better candidate than the tiny Philly school.
    Posted by SlimPickensII


    If UMass were to move to the MAC, it would most likely be as a football only member.  Our membership obligations would be similar to that of Temple. We'd have to schedule 3 or 4 OOC games against MAC schools, but Kent State and Toledo isn't exactly a step backward from Holy Cross or Central Connecticut. Heck we had Toledo on the schedule a few years ago.

    Ideally any move to the MAC is temporary. This would be an arrangment until the Big East or C-USA need another school to fill their ranks. When the Big East invited TCU and UMass wasn't in their plans, that shook McCutcheon out of his "Big East or nothing" stance.

    Plus the CAA is shifting Southward. Old Dominon is joining the conference next year, with Georgia State coming in 2012 to replace Northeastern and Hofstra. URI is moving to the NEC, leaving only three New England schools remaining. Suddenly road trips to Ohio suddenly don't seem as long compared with trips to Virginia. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from refuse2lose. Show refuse2lose's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Great move by UMass IMO. Glad to see they are taking the initiative to better the reputation of the sports programs, the school, and the state. In order to be seen as a national power you have to be able to compete at the highest level in all aspects of college life. Playing FBS football is a huge part of that and will bring a lot of national credibility to the university as well as a lot of money. My only concern is that this could affect the basketball program playing in the A10 but from everything I've heard UMass will keep all other sports with the A10.
    Like redbarchetta88 said, the university ultimately would like to move up into a bigger and better conference (Big East) but this is the first step. It is necessary ifUMass wants to compete and stay relevant in the national scene and I will be very excited if this deal gets finalized.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Seems to me that the MAC has been pressuring Temple to join as a full fledged member.  If they were so inclined I would think they would hold all the cards if/when UMass starts looking for a BCS conference to join.


    That said, moving up would take some time and a step to the MAC would be a start, although I don't see it as their ultimate destination.


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Zig2K. Show Zig2K's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    For those of you that think jumping to up to a FBS conference equals a huge payday, please read "Death to the BSC". VERY FEW FBS teams even break even. 

    Even saying that I WANT UMass in the FBS. The fact a major university like UMass is playing with "little kids" in the FCS is a joke. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CarbosFro. Show CarbosFro's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Bad info Zig - Plenty of FBS teams make $ or basically break even.  UMass needs to take this step, improve their team on the field, improve their facilities, play good football and make smart business decisions.  W/in 10 yrs they will be in the big east. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from LOTHAR43. Show LOTHAR43's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    In Response to Re: The Future of UMass Football:
    Looks like UMass might be playing MAC football next year. BC fans, please hold your laughter until I finish. 1. UMass will never play in a big bowl or attract 60,000 to Amherst and that's ok. I have no illusions of that ever happening. 2. When the Big East splits betweens state schools and catholic schools the catholics will take Xavier and St. Joe's making the A10 a terrible conference. 3. The CAA is moving south since Rhode Island is dropping a league, Northeastern dropped football and the CAA is adding schools like Old Dominion. 4. FBS doesn't require a new stadium or taxpayer bailouts.   MAC teams get about double the payouts for playing at schools like Michigan. 2 pay games would pay for the season. 4. B. AGAIN FBS DOESN'T REQUIRE TAXPAYER FUNDING 5. Gillette and Krafts want to host more football because the 30,000 for the umass game was 3x what they average for a Revolution game. UMass hosting UConn, Penn State or some other slow Big 10 team would keep them happy. 6. Its about protecting basketball in the long run.   If we don't do anything we'll be looking at a future basketball league of Maine, UMass, UNH, BU, Salem State, Tufts, etc. 7. I think incremental improvements at Mcguirk would be ok. Put in some seats in one endzone to get capacity to mid 20s and see how that works.
    Posted by fleetian51

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LOTHAR43. Show LOTHAR43's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Do you have any idea what traffic would be like on a football day in Amherst when the UMass 40,000 seat stadium is full for a game with NotreDame AND undefeated Amherst and Williams are playing across town. Any discussion of expamded football at the University requires that one of the very first discussions be about road infrastructure. Financial (and ego) considerations put UCon's stadium 20+ miles away from campus as well as the fact that Storrs just ain't that easy to get to either.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Future of UMass Football

    Lothar:

    A. UMass playing ND in Amherst will never happen and I don't see a stadium expansion much over 30,000 either.

    B. For the near future, UMass would play any name opponents on the road or at Gillette Stadium, making for 3-4 big crowds a year in Amherst. Better traffic management with State Troopers would help with games on campus.

    C. Have you been to some of the great college towns? Places like Athens GA are in the boonies and are not easily accessible yet somehow manage 95,000 crowds coming from Atlanta.


    Even BC isn't particularly accessible with Route 9 being the best access.

     
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