The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Awesome... soliciting advice from the UConn and BC crowd...I'm sure we'll get some positive input.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from trbow. Show trbow's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    no question: Skinner.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    I'm a believer in giving a coach 4 years to get their first recruits tograduation.  Kellogg gets a little slack as a alumnus but we need to start seeing improvement soon. 30 point losses to Ct. State are unacceptable.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from undking. Show undking's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Maybe BC can schedule Central Connecticut; surely they can't hang with ND or UCONN in the Beastly Big East... playing puppy dogs is more there style!  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LongPotter. Show LongPotter's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    Maybe BC can schedule Central Connecticut; surely they can't hang with ND or UCONN in the Beastly Big East... playing puppy dogs is more there style!  
    Posted by UofNDKing


    On a thread about the next UMASS coach the ND fan posts about....BC.

    Obsessed much?

    The thing is everyone knows that UofNDKing did not go to ND. Did not go to college in fact.  My guess is you are a 19 year old plumber from Fitchburg? We know you did not go to college. Real ND fans are far more classy and actually don't care that much about BC.

    Anyway, BC has won two Big East tournaments. ND has never won.



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Minutemen429. Show Minutemen429's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Kellogg has shown the ability to recruit more highly rated high school talent than the previous coaches, which is one reason I'd be willing to give him a little extra rope.  As of yet, he hasn't been able to turn the 3 and one 4 star recruits he's got into a successful team (not that recruiting ratings equal success)  The loss to Central Conn was inexcusable, as well a couple more bad losses this year, Maine comes to mind.  Other than Gurley its a young team and will hopefully grow during the season, but conference play will also increase the level of competition.  At the very least I'd give him until the end of this season and probably next season before I start calling for his head. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox01. Show redsox01's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Hey,

    First, give Howie Dickenman and his team some credit. I was at the game and they were shooting the lights out. This was their superbowl and they came out on fire.

    Next, DK had to play with a rookie PG who is about 5'6" and no backup. Farrell is not a 1 and has been hurting. Big City also has a sprained ankle. Matt Hill, who sat out with injuries for two years was the back-up center. RS wing, Raph Putney, got his most minutes ever (and did pretty well).

    We lacked a second scoring option and had a few guys playing mediocre defense. Jesse Morgan, who hasn't played or practiced until a week ago was forced to be used and looked rusty but better than in his other performances.

    It was a bus trip road game after a holiday snow storm that left half the team stranded in airports and unable to practice. Sean Carter and Freddie Riley basically had been gone for a week.

    The bench was thin, Central is a well-coached team that was up for the game and frankly DK didn't have enough players to properly prepare for a team that they had little knowledge of in the first place. It was an ugly game but will be a test for a team that is still in building mode.

    They need to get more experience. They could use a few more parts. But DK inherited the worst recruiting class UMass has seen since Ron Gerlufson:

    Correia: A back-up PG who could start for a CCSU
    Hill: Two torn achilles but still plays w heart despite limited mobility
    Matthews: ended up at Southern New Hampshire
    Lynch: A jerk who is not playing anywhere as far as anyone I know knows
    Lang: Relegated to walk-on status after
    Wilcher: Only getting mop-up time in Maine
    Glass: Doing well in Vermont, where he belongs - not a fit for DKs offense
    Grobe: averaging about 6 ppg on a HORRIBLE Cornell team

    So the guys that would be upper classmen are nearly all incapable of playing A10 ball as starters - Hill, Glass and Grobe are NEC -type players at this point and the rest are either gone or unable to get mop up time against CCSU(Lang didn't play).

    Anthony Gurley can't be expected to do it alone every night. DK has some talent on the way - He is building a program from scratch. It takes time to crack the eggs and add the flour!!!!

    What do we gain:
    Morgan will be a half- year sophomore next year, J. Laguerre is supposed to have good skills, Chaz Williams (who played big minutes as a frosh in the Colonial and is sitting out as transfer) gives us two true point guards. Maxie Esho who has good skills and has gained some size and practice as a red shirt. Cady Lallanne who is rated very high as a PF and is sitting out as a non-qualifier. Andrew McCarthy a 7'1" walk-on who played a little AAUP and turned down a D2 scholarship to play D1 at UMass - who is working on his skills but has a big enough body to get in the way.

    What do we lose:
    Gurly - tough to replace
    Bailey - big and slow backup
    Correia - good kid but a backup
    Not sure if Hill and Lang are planning on coming back as they have a lot of schooling under their belts.

    What else do we gain next year?
    We will have a team stocked with players that have seen a lot of game time at the A10 level and that know what DK expects of them. We will finally have a mix of experience and talent.

    This year the realistic goal is a winning record and a run at the NIT, CBI, or CIT. More games under their belts and some tournament experience.

    Getting your butt kicked every now and then test what you have inside of you. Let's see how they develop before we start calling for Derek's head!!!! The man works his butt off, just as he did as a player. And we should all remember what his teams pulled off!!

    GO UMASS! Stay W/ DK!!!Cool
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from YeWiseOne. Show YeWiseOne's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Thank you redsox01 for providing excellent insight; you made a number of key points. It is easy to dump on the coach when we don't see the immediate progress we would like.

    I also still believe Coach Kellogg is the right guy for the position.  He has a strong work ethic, was a great and smart player for UMass, learned from Coach Calipari as a player and as an assistant coach.   Further, he wants to be here for the long term since he is from Springfield and loves UMass.  If and when he turns the ship around he won't be jumping, and that is important to remember.
     
    Therefore, we really need to be more patient, support the program and and give him significantly more time (two more years at a minimum) to connect the dots between great recruiting and drawing x's and o's. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tfk345. Show tfk345's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    As a BC fan I think it would be dumb to dump Kellogg.  They almost beat BC and I have seen Kellogg interviewed and I was very impressed by him.  He is a young guy and as others have noted he has a love for UMass that is a great intangible.  I would give him at the very least through the end of next year.  Learning from Calipari must have done something for him. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Two and a half years may seem a little too soon to start a "Change the Coach" thread to some. However, this is year three for Kellogg. This is the first real season with a majority of the team being players he recruited. Ideally this year would see signficant progress towards competing.

    I do not see signs of them competing for an A-10 title and an NCAA berth. The team has regressed after the BC game in the Garden, with horrible losses to Maine, Seton Hall, and that disaster of a "game" in Central Connecticut. The team as is stand no chance of competing with the top of the conference with Temple, Dayton, and Xavier. They'd be lucky to beat La Salle or St. Bonaventure as it stands.

    Naturally everyone preaches patience. Yet the team has not appeared in the NCAA tournament since 1998. During this timeframe I have graduated middle school, high school, and likely college without seeing my school in the Big Dance, which is the only way for A-10 schools to get exposure. Over this drought Boston College has made 7 appearances in the NCAA, UConn has gone 9 times with 2 titles, Xavier has gone 9 times, and Temple has 6 apperances. I have dilligently watched the game without seeing my school, the state's flagship, on TV.

    Granted not all of this is on Derek Kellogg. He did come in promising to return the team to national prominence. How did he do it? By scheduling home games against Rider, St. Peter's, and Niagra, which does wonders for attendance. The team has barely beaten those schools. Meanwhile games against semi-decent teams end in blowouts, with UMass barely competetive in said games. All this has driven fans away. New England is a region of front runners. That's why the Mullins was packed in the 90's when we were in the Top 10 regularly. Once they started losing the fans left, jumping on the BC and UConn bandwagons or forgoing college sports altogether.  Scheduling Maine, nevermind losing to them badly will not bring the fans back, it will not bring in better players, and it will not lead to an NCAA berth.

    That's why we need a clean start with someone outside the program. Derek Kellogg is a nice guy I've had the pleasure of meeting. He was a good assistant at Memphis. He just isn't cut out to be a Division I Head Coach. UMass needs someone who can recruit guys who will produce and not fall flat one they reach Amherst. We need someone who will play "anyone, anywhere, anytime" to build excitment and fill the arena. We need someone who will get UMass into the NCAA.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from refuse2lose. Show refuse2lose's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    redbarchetta88:
       I can understand your frustration. I remember the Camby/Calipari days fondly and can't wait to see UMass back in the Dance. However, I really think we have to give Kellogg more time. He's young and inexperienced and is learning to coach at the D1 level just as the players are learning to play at it. I really don't know if ANYONE could come in and turn this program around in 2 and a half years. (Maybe Calipari or a few others, but no one UMass could legitimately get.)
       Even though its rough, we have to wait. Let Kellogg run out his contract and then we'll see where we're at. I was at the CCSU game and was completely disgusted by our play. But hey, we just beat Dayton last night, who beat CCSU and Seton Hall earlier this year. We're a young, inconsistent team. Who knows what could happen.
       The truth is, we're 9-5 and 1-0 in the A10. The season is only half over. Let's wait and see before we call for DK's head.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    I'm a long time UMass fan.  At this point the program needs stability, so give Kellogg the full term of his contract.   I don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about his ultimate success, but this program has been flailing for 15 years now.   You want to hire a guy with no previous head coach experience then you have to give him more time than normal.

    The only thing I have little stomach for though, are all the excuses and the 'wait until next year', year after year.  It's College Hoops, the players are always transients,  few play the entire 4 years, someone always tranfers out, someone else drops out altogether,  someone is always injured, someone is always green and just needs more PT. Time to stop waiting for all the moons to align perfectly - Kellogg has all the pieces he needs - RIGHT NOW - except for one thing. The only thing missing is the HC experience.   Some do experience instant success, but he is apparently not one of the chosen.  So he gets this one-time only exemption to learn and at the same time get his troops experience. 

    After that he better expect to do a better job with the cards he gets dealt each season. If there's something lacking in the lineup then it's up to him to fill the gaps with more creative coaching. I think dumping Vance Wahlberg would be a good start.  His crappy SSASWTF  dribble drive offense apparently only works with 7 foot 4 star blue chip PhD's in hoopology, who have studied it for 4 full years  But even that's theory,  except for one year with one team loaded with NBA players, it's NEVER been demonstrated that Vance's baby actually works.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:

    They could use a few more parts. But DK inherited the worst recruiting class UMass has seen since Ron Gerlufson
    Posted by redsox01


    I think you covered just about every possible excuse except the dog ate the game plans and the sun was in their eyes.  I'll just pick apart one of them.

    Kellogg inherited the A10 Defensive Player of the Year in Tony Gaffney, a preseason All A10 and former All rookie in Chris Lowe,  ACC transfer Anthony Gurley,  another all conference player and one of the all time scorers UMass has seen in Ricky Harris.  A 5th year 7 footer with some skills.   These guys had all gotten used to winning , going 49-20 the previous two seasons. Kellogg parlayed that into a sub .500 conference record his first season.  We can blame that on DK's inexperience, but not on a lack of talent.

    His second season, he still had Gurley and Harris, and the best recruiting class in the A10.  Plus the staff picked up a year of experience, that should've been worth something, no?  At least a wash over the previous year, but they got even worse,  the second worse conference performance in over 20 years.  

    And this year?  Those recruits all logged a ton of minutes and are well seasoned.  Sometimes it shows.  As often as not they look like they don't care. It happens so often that there's only one place to start looking, and no, it's not at the regime that left town two and a half years ago.   It's time to start seeing some progress. 

    At the moment it's looking a bit dicey,  but if they can finish the rest of the season with a long string of strong efforts we might be getting somewhere.  But this one step forward, one step back is getting them nowhere,  and the wait-until-next-years and the cupboard-was-empty excuses don't fly.  Appreciate the support you're still giving them,  but time to start getting real and start thinking accountability.

    Kellogg's seat should start feeling a bit warm now, but I agree it's not yet time to show him the door.  If he still doesn't have all the parts, and he does appear to be missing a couple, it's his fault, not Ford's.


     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Great post Slim.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    I watched snatches of the Xavier game.  They put in the effort, which is a start.  But they obviously do not know what they want to do on the offensive end of the floor.  Some of these guys do have natural scoring ability, but you'd never know it watching this dysfunctional mess they are right now.  And Gurley is slowly turning back into the black hole he was the past couple of seasons, seemed every time I clicked over he was driving - to his right of course - into a crowd while there was a wide open guy sitting on the wing.

    This is all about Coaching right now.  No doubt about it at all.  They obviously are not committed to this DDM philosophy as they keep going into it and dropping out of it. Make up your freakin' mind Coach.  Probably better if Wahberg was sent back to California at the end of the season.  Right now the only real function I see for this guy is to serve as a Lightning Rod for all the bad stuff.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Cuonzo Martin. A former Purdue Boilermaker, he has Missouri State on the rise with a 15-3 start, 7-0 in the Missouri Valley. He's just the outside infulence UMass needs to get back on track.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    They're not replacing Kellogg anytime soon.  If they were what makes you think Martin would come here?   It would be at best a lateral move.  Pretend it's not and what do you get, another Travis Ford?  That would be great, except those types don't stick around. 

    Stability, this program needs stability,  not a flailing flavor of the month approach to this.  This AD, unlike Bob Marcum, knows what he's doing. This move may or may not work out for him, but it is the correct one for this point in time.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    They're not replacing Kellogg anytime soon.  If they were what makes you think Martin would come here?   It would be at best a lateral move.  Pretend it's not and what do you get, another Travis Ford?  That would be great, except those types don't stick around.  Stability, this program needs stability,  not a flailing flavor of the month approach to this.  This AD, unlike Bob Marcum, knows what he's doing. This move may or may not work out for him, but it is the correct one for this point in time.
    Posted by SlimPickensII


    I've officially resigned myself to that fact. I'd at least like to see progress that they will make the NCAA within the next 25 years.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fleetian51. Show fleetian51's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Time to lock up this thread yet? 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    Time to lock up this thread yet? 
    Posted by fleetian51


    Heh,  he almost looks like he knows what he'd doing now!  They've already matched last years win total, with a mininum of 11 games left.  And they're doing it getting very little from Vinson or Riley, which to me is the most surprising part of it.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from redbarchetta88. Show redbarchetta88's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    Time to lock up this thread yet? 
    Posted by fleetian51


    Probably. The team is finally showing signs of improvement. Keep going at this rate and the team might sneak into the NIT.

    P.S. Somehow UMass has the 56th best schedule in the country.
     
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    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    What do you want for $180,000 per annum? Nice gig for a State hack ....
    Posted by UofNDKing



    Thanks for message dirtbag.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox01. Show redsox01's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread:
    In Response to Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread : I think you covered just about every possible excuse except the dog ate the game plans and the sun was in their eyes.  I'll just pick apart one of them. Kellogg inherited the A10 Defensive Player of the Year in Tony Gaffney, a preseason All A10 and former All rookie in Chris Lowe,  ACC transfer Anthony Gurley,  another all conference player and one of the all time scorers UMass has seen in Ricky Harris.  A 5th year 7 footer with some skills.   These guys had all gotten used to winning , going 49-20 the previous two seasons. Kellogg parlayed that into a sub .500 conference record his first season.  We can blame that on DK's inexperience, but not on a lack of talent. His second season, he still had Gurley and Harris, and the best recruiting class in the A10.  Plus the staff picked up a year of experience, that should've been worth something, no?  At least a wash over the previous year, but they got even worse,  the second worse conference performance in over 20 years.   And this year?  Those recruits all logged a ton of minutes and are well seasoned.  Sometimes it shows.  As often as not they look like they don't care. It happens so often that there's only one place to start looking, and no, it's not at the regime that left town two and a half years ago.   It's time to start seeing some progress.  At the moment it's looking a bit dicey,  but if they can finish the rest of the season with a long string of strong efforts we might be getting somewhere.  But this one step forward, one step back is getting them nowhere,  and the wait-until-next-years and the cupboard-was-empty excuses don't fly.  Appreciate the support you're still giving them,  but time to start getting real and start thinking accountability. Kellogg's seat should start feeling a bit warm now, but I agree it's not yet time to show him the door.  If he still doesn't have all the parts, and he does appear to be missing a couple, it's his fault, not Ford's.  
    Posted by SlimPickensII

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SlimPickensII. Show SlimPickensII's posts

    Re: The Official "Fire Derek Kellogg" Open Thread

    Okay, so you reposted my response to one of your excuse-laden posts.  And?  If there's supposed to be some sort of point in posting it w/o any additional comment of your own, then I'm afraid I don't see it. I'm enjoying the current modest win streak as much as anyone, but if you think this validates your extensive list of excuses you should think again.

    Daryl Traynham just got booted off the team.  The only true freshman on the roster, getting plenty of PT at a position this program is very thin at.  And he barely lasted a semester.  Which for a guy who lasted one week at one of his 4 high schools, so I suppose that's a sign of his growing maturity.  At this rate he'll be a responsible citizen about the same time Social Security goes bankrupt.

    The Traynham experience is a perfect illustration of why 'wait-until-next-year' is a bogus copout.  Play the hand you're dealt, because there are no guarantees the next one will be any better.
     
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