"Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/03/11/wilfork_received_good_deal_of_power/

    Lemmee see....Wilfork gets selected as Captain for 2009 season, but he "led" thru example. Now, he's got a new contract - and he's gonna be a "vocal" leader?

    Glad we signed him, but I'm not entirely convinced that if he couldn't inspire his teammates last year, why would he be able to do it just cuz of a new contract....
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from apdynasty23. Show apdynasty23's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    Well, I don't think it's a matter of leading the players ON the field because Vince may not be good at that. I think the point is that he's now in a position to show the younger players how to handle themselves and still be successful in this league. He signed his first contract, honored it to the fullest, never whined/complained, showed up to every practice and camp in shape, and gave his team ample time and opportunity to lock him up to his mega deal (well-deserved). He did that and got what he, and every other player wants, financial security for himself and the family while playing for a perennial contender. Had the Patriots let him go, that would have sent ripples through the locker room because the word would have been, "why play hard here and not act up? It's not like we're going to get our max deals from the cheap Patriots anyway."

    He's one of a few that's been around to build the Patriot Way. Now that he's fully ingrained with the organization for the rest of his career likely, he can advocate and continue promoting the New England way.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NY-PATS-FAN4. Show NY-PATS-FAN4's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    For the same reason a lame duck president has no power: "If you ain't here next year, we ain't listening this year."


    In Response to New Contract = "Leadership"??:
    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/03/11/wilfork_received_good_deal_of_power/ Lemmee see....Wilfork gets selected as Captain for 2009 season, but he "led" thru example. Now, he's got a new contract - and he's gonna be a "vocal" leader? Glad we signed him, but I'm not entirely convinced that if he couldn't inspire his teammates last year, why would he be able to do it just cuz of a new contract....
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    In Response to Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??:
    For the same reason a lame duck president has no power: "If you ain't here next year, we ain't listening this year." In Response to New Contract = "Leadership"?? :
    Posted by NY-PATS-FAN4


    True. On the other hand, given the same individual, I don't think u can buy "leadership". Either u got it, or u don't.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    Another high Character guys form the U.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    I think Bubba is probably right about this.

    Guys have an intrinsic work ethic and leadership ability or they don't.

    It doesn't magically appear when you sign the check . . .

    leastways if it does, then you've either got a guy who was dogging it before or is faking it now.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

     "I think the point is that he's now in a position to show the younger players how to handle themselves and still be successful in this league.

    For the same reason a lame duck president has no power: "If you ain't here next year, we ain't listening this year.""

    These two quotes are correct, but leadership is also a quality in the person. 

    Leadership is part intrinsic, and part performative. You can be a good leader and a rookie, but start barking orders at veterans. See what happens. 

    You can have a big contract, and be a terrible leader, and people will see through it. 

    You need both. 

    Vince has both now. 

    Lets see if the leadership part is for real. His comments certainly sound Ray Lewis-esque. And for all of his pathologies, he certainly is a leader of the highest order in the NFL.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    In Response to Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??:
     "I think the point is that he's now in a position to show the younger players how to handle themselves and still be successful in this league. For the same reason a lame duck president has no power: "If you ain't here next year, we ain't listening this year."" These two quotes are correct, but leadership is also a quality in the person.  Leadership is part intrinsic, and part performative. You can be a good leader and a rookie, but start barking orders at veterans. See what happens.  You can have a big contract, and be a terrible leader, and people will see through it.  You need both.  Vince has both now.  Lets see if the leadership part is for real. His comments certainly sound Ray Lewis-esque. And for all of his pathologies, he certainly is a leader of the highest order in the NFL.
    Posted by zbellino


    Correct again sir...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from oklahomapatriot. Show oklahomapatriot's posts

    Re: New Contract = "Leadership"??

    i like vince alot, great he got the contract, but as a professional he should have exerted alot more leadership last year, that would have also showed the younger players you play to win at 110% even if you don't know what tomorrow brings.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    "Vocal Leadership"??

    LMAO.  Looks like "leadership" is going to be a pre-season topic.

    Now, Mayo is jumping on the "vocal leader" bandwagon.  I guess BB had a pep talk with some of the players.  Hopefully, this is going to be more than a PR ploy.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/?p1=SportsNav_Patriots

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from JBonesky. Show JBonesky's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"??

    This is a good thing! Leadership is what we need!  Everyone is gonna be held accountable for their own duties.  This is how you weed out the individuals and form a team.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"??

    You have on D the two best players saying we need to work harder stop all the bs on the side and come to work, how is that not a win win?

    I remember TB54 saying Mayo asked so many questions his rookie year and was like a tail, following and learning all he could from him.  This kid is a good player and feels more comfortable to be the guy in the D along with VW to police up AD type guys.  I'm all for it, the players that do not are those who need to go.

    Mayo, played through injury and didn't complain he gave it his all hurt.  VW played his contract out, played hard and was rewarded for it how are those two not great leaders to have or not?

    A guy I think we are all missing who can teach the young secondary what it is to be a winner is Sanders.  He also did it right and received an extension, for those who are not sold on him see what happened in the secondary when he became the starter at the end of the season.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"??

    In Response to Re: "Vocal Leadership"??:
    You have on D the two best players saying we need to work harder stop all the bs on the side and come to work, how is that not a win win? I remember TB54 saying Mayo asked so many questions his rookie year and was like a tail, following and learning all he could from him.  This kid is a good player and feels more comfortable to be the guy in the D along with VW to police up AD type guys.  I'm all for it, the players that do not are those who need to go. Mayo, played through injury and didn't complain he gave it his all hurt.  VW played his contract out, played hard and was rewarded for it how are those two not great leaders to have or not? A guy I think we are all missing who can teach the young secondary what it is to be a winner is Sanders.  He also did it right and received an extension, for those who are not sold on him see what happened in the secondary when he became the starter at the end of the season.
    Posted by Pats7393


    well...it's a win-win if it translates on the field.  If it's only press for the media...not so much.

    IMHO, either u r a leader or u r not. Wilfork's "excuse" is that he was only a "leader by example", but since he signed a multi million dollar contract, he is now a "vocal leader".

    Didn't hear a peep from all year - not even at the end of the year when the season imploded on the Pats. Same theme. I was a leader by example...blah blah.

    My point is that paper leadership is about as effective as improving a team "on paper".

    I have not questioned the quality of players these two guys are. It's obvious that we need them. But no, there is no "leadership" switch that one can just turn on.



     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"??

    ahhh, the leadership question revisited. Merriweather asks a good question about what is a "leader" in the globe.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/extra_points/2010/08/training_camp_t_6.html

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shenanigan. Show shenanigan's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    I couldn't watch the video on my work computer. 

    I've had a bit of experience with something similiar.  At one point in my career I was in charge of choosing personnel to perform in a small spec ops unit.  About 50% or less of people picked up wouldn't make it.  Like Zbellino and others have pointed out part of leadership is just plain natural.  However being a natural leader does not mean you know what your doing.  Some people have the charisma, and volume to get people to follow them but they may not know what they are doing.  Some people know what to do but lack the leadership qualities.

    Really, either way though any consistent starter is going to be in a leadership position and probably one of them will have the charisma, etc. to be the team leader.  Any safety coming in is going to look at Meriweather and say "this guys a probowler, he has been playing for 3 years, he knows the playbook" and they are going to follow his lead and go to him with any questions they have.  Same with Wilfork, Bodden, Moss, Welker, Mayo and ofcurse Brady.  With all these rookies they are going to think those guys invented football, even if though some have only been there a few years.  My guess would be a guy like Meriweather is not a natural leader, but even if the DB's just try to play like him, and he answers their questions he can still be a decent leader.

    Another thing mentioned is that rookies, even if they have natural leadership qualities cannot really be leaders.  This is true, and not just for rookies, if there is an established leader it will keep the next guy from becoming the leader.  Mayo was never going to be the leader with Bruschi out there.  People would always look at Bruschi as the guy who had done it all and go to him for leadership.  Same with Wilfork and Seymour, Wilfork could always just focus on himself because Seymour the star on the line.  Last year he sort of became the leader unexpectedly, it takes some getting used to even if you are a natural leader and he may be embracing that role more this year.

    The last point of this manifesto is a unique phenomenon that I noticed when I was choosing people to serve in that unit I mentioned above.  Whenever we would pick only one guy up at a time they had a much higher failure rate than if we picked two at the same time.  I attribute this to two things.  First during the stressful recruiting and training it was helpful to have someone who shared the pain that you could relate to.  Second, it fostered a natural competition, if one guy was doing better the other guy would do everything he could not to get beaten.  I would relate this to the Pats because it seems to work the same in most cases.  Look at 2008 when the Pats had Mayo and Guyton competing for one spot.  I think Guyton raised his game because he couldn't stand to have a guy his same age outplay him. 

    It is expected that guys with more experience will be better so new guys can't always guage their progress without a peer.  I think the Pats having two rookie TE's competing this year, as well as the two Florida LB'ers in Cunningham and Spikes will make these guys develop faster.  I'm sure you can imagine if Spikes gets a starting job or practices with the first team it will make Cunningham want to work all that harder so his former teammate doesn't get one up on him.  Some guys can become stars without that competition but from my experience it doesn't happen as often.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    The defense doesn't need just one defensive leader. Bill Belichick should be their leader. All the players need to know is Belichick's famous nine word expression. 


    "Just do your job, don't worry about anyone else!"
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CablesWyndBairn. Show CablesWyndBairn's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    A long term contract and tenure gives Vince the juice he needs to be more of a leader.  He always had legitimacy as one of the team's best players, and the contract only solidifies that.  The guy has been a rock for that team, and I think the expectation for him now that he re-signed is that he needs to be a leader to the many young guys on the roster, which I'm sure he will be.  Vince plays hard, never misses games and is a good community guy.  What isn't there to like about the guy?  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stay-Pro. Show Stay-Pro's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    I think BB has figured out the formula.

    He drafted all Brady-type players at many different positions, and we are going to have an immense team for years.

    Brady wasn't the highlight-reel quarterback coming out of college, but he was one of Michigan's top leaders. He wanted it and worked hard.

    All of the new guys have the same characteristics.


    This leadership nonesense will evaporate as the season and the years go forward.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    In Response to Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited:
    [QUOTE]In Response to "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited : Personally, bubby, I think you are reading too much into it.  It's how you say it and when you say i,t and the rest is leading by example. Wilfork is a mature veteran and absolutley will lead here. This leadership angle is overrated by the media. I don't think the stories about last year's issues are invalid, but I also feel this is something that has clearly been addressed. The players knew it was an issue and there are plenty of veterans here who get it and will lead.
    Posted by russgriswold[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, maybe not. I just found it interesting that both Brady and BB came out at the end of last season saying it was a problem. I also thouaght that Merriweather's answer said something similar to what I said earlier.  Talk doesn't mean much if one can't back it up w/ play on the field.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    In Response to Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited:
    [QUOTE]I think BB has figured out the formula. He drafted all Brady-type players at many different positions, and we are going to have an immense team for years. Brady wasn't the highlight-reel quarterback coming out of college, but he was one of Michigan's top leaders. He wanted it and worked hard. All of the new guys have the same characteristics. This leadership nonesense will evaporate as the season and the years go forward.
    Posted by Stay-Pro[/QUOTE]

    it is pretty interesting that alot of the new players were captains while in college...hopefully, it will pan out on the field this year :)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from LittleLazJunior. Show LittleLazJunior's posts

    Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited

    In Response to Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: "Vocal Leadership"?? - revisited : Maybe, maybe not. I just found it interesting that both Brady and BB came out at the end of last season saying it was a problem. I also thouaght that Merriweather's answer said something similar to what I said earlier.  Talk doesn't mean much if one can't back it up w/ play on the field.
    Posted by BubbaInHawaii[/QUOTE]

    Hello there, well I dont know if it will be a problem but they need someone to take over and be very orally strong!  Seriously you cant just be half into it! Leadership is a must and without leadership you dont have leaders.
     

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