Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Santana9999. Show Santana9999's posts

    Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    What about in certain situations using Collins as essentially a SS or a LB covering a TE? He is clearly an insane athlete and played safety in college for a bit. He could play the Tank Williams/Adrian Wilson role that never developed. He could be the 4th LB in a 3-4 and play a hybrid role or it could be in some exotic 2-5-4 or 3-5-3 formation.

    Whatever role he plays, I think BB sees the game changing and there is less  need for specialists (i.e. run stoppers who are liable in coverage...Spikes) and more of need for athletic players who may not excel at one thing but can do a bunch of things well. He will try to get all the best athletes on the field at the same time if possible and use exotic formations, like organized chaos or something.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    I suggested this on the Need strong safety help STAT! thread.  I don't think he will be relagated to this role entirely because his skill set is so varied but he can certainly jam large receivers like Calvin Johnson and tightends with help over the top.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    The Pats should play Mayo, Fletcher and Collins as the third down LBs.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    I have been asking that for awhile too

     

    I think the versatility deli front 7 Is exceptional

     

    We are looking at seeing multiple schemes

    TB just said they are ready for any thing, Well that goes for the D too. This 53 is very versatile, 

    Give TB time, Give the other Qb fits. And help the DBS. I believe except for Seat , Cin, and TBay every team has Db issues

     

    I am beginning to feel that cin may be a real dark horse, but is their Qb good enough?
    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    good question. He's 6'3, 250 lbs?  He's played a db position in the past, but on the surface, seems too heavy to cover lighter, faster receivers.  Would probably do fine covering TEs.

    I'm hoping he can lay some wood and that Patricia takes advantage and see if he can put pressure on opposing QBs.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to Santana9999's comment:

    What about in certain situations using Collins as essentially a SS or a LB covering a TE? He is clearly an insane athlete and played safety in college for a bit. He could play the Tank Williams/Adrian Wilson role that never developed. He could be the 4th LB in a 3-4 and play a hybrid role or it could be in some exotic 2-5-4 or 3-5-3 formation.

    Whatever role he plays, I think BB sees the game changing and there is less  need for specialists (i.e. run stoppers who are liable in coverage...Spikes) and more of need for athletic players who may not excel at one thing but can do a bunch of things well. He will try to get all the best athletes on the field at the same time if possible and use exotic formations, like organized chaos or something.



    This roster seems designed for something like that, and Collins who seems to have lots of versatility would likely be playing a role that combines elements of safety, LB, and DE. Can't wait to see what they do over the next few weeks.  Not sure they'll show everything in Buffalo (may not need to), but we should start to get some idea of who Belichick thinks can play and how he is thinking of utilizing those players. 

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    This was his main responsibility in the public practices of camp....I mentioned this about a month ago, when I first commented that Wilson did not look like he would be an asset in coverage. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    Makes sense. Our SS's stink and Collins has to be a better money S than T. Wilson so I can see it. 
    I swear by lil 10 pound bearded baby Jesus

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    Whatever position he plays, his athletic ability will be an asset. 

    Again, the strength of this defense I think is in the lb corps. I would like to see 4 or 5 on the field together often and find a way to insure Collins is lining up in different spots based on down/ distance and offensive personnel we are matching up against. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    Hopefully his role changes week to week so teams cant key in on our weaknesses every week with our vanilla schemes and BBDB. We havent had anything like that since Willie was here in the 3-4. U never knew if he was dropping or coming. Collins will just be able to do more with his athletic build but honestly I dont see him doing much 1 on 1 covering with TE's and WR's. Everything I saw in camp tells me is just gonna occupy certain areas and discourage passes being thrown his way. He will undercut some passes due to the QB not knowing where he is. He seems to be just zoning certain areas, mainly that outside the tackle area to the flat. Some times he may drop straight back. Good Toy to have. Very excited about him, but he may come along slow once reg. season start so I caution folks expecting big things early. That may have just been preseason training. Noone knows what his role will be sunday. He may not even be activated, but I doubt that.

     

    "Take care of my B*tch, I may need her back in a couple years"

    Brady to Manning after Wes signed with Denver

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    beside Collins to mis it up

    We do have 2 projects. Ebner and Davis on the PS
    Both ahve speed and both can hit. We have to be patient and see           if they can be coached up?

    Ebner has hit on STs and from what I hear hear has made plays in practice. Davis is obviously much farther away. Remember how Nink was and now look at him. Some guys don't come into the league ready - just have a little patience.



    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

    beside Collins to mis it up

    We do have 2 projects. Ebner and Davis on the PS
    Both ahve speed and both can hit. We have to be patient and see           if they can be coached up?

    Ebner has hit on STs and from what I hear hear has made plays in practice. Davis is obviously much farther away. Remember how Nink was and now look at him. Some guys don't come into the league ready - just have a little patience.



    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land



    One minor correction Sea, Ebner is on the 53man squad not PS so he can actually play during the game if he's one of the active 46

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to PatsEng's comment:

    In response to seawolfxs' comment:

     

    beside Collins to mis it up

    We do have 2 projects. Ebner and Davis on the PS
    Both ahve speed and both can hit. We have to be patient and see           if they can be coached up?

    Ebner has hit on STs and from what I hear hear has made plays in practice. Davis is obviously much farther away. Remember how Nink was and now look at him. Some guys don't come into the league ready - just have a little patience.



    Pat's Fan lost in Jet Land

     



    One minor correction Sea, Ebner is on the 53man squad not PS so he can actually play during the game if he's one of the active 46

     



    I miss wrote - I understood where Ebner was - Inarticulate writing on my part.

    I jsut think we have alot of versatility and upside on this team. When young players excell in big games early, they usally do for years and if they don't. well they hit their ceiling early. Look at Jeter-sorry foir the Yankee comparison -lol - I think this can be agreat year!!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    Just to be clear, IMO after seeing him only a little this summer, Ebner clearly is not an NFL caliber S at this time. His role is clearly ST, of which he is very good at, and very affordable. I could see him being a very attractive ST player to another team when he hits free agency...

    IMO Ebner is a S in the same sense that Slater is a WR

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    If we sack the QB, collapse the pocket and otherwise make him uncomfortable, our defense and coverage woes will be over.  Our coverage wasn't poor over the past 4 years or so, we couldn't get to the QB, the QB had all day to throw, watching that week in and out was very frustrating.

    You'll see that when opposing QB's are running for their lives, we'll get off the field faster and with more frequency and the coverage behind the rush will get a lot of lame duck interceptions.  

    Been saying it for years, pass coverage doesn't happen in a vacuum, the pass rush must work in tandem with coverage or else it just looks like bad defense.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    If we sack the QB, collapse the pocket and otherwise make him uncomfortable, our defense and coverage woes will be over.  Our coverage wasn't poor over the past 4 years or so, we couldn't get to the QB, the QB had all day to throw, watching that week in and out was very frustrating.

    You'll see that when opposing QB's are running for their lives, we'll get off the field faster and with more frequency and the coverage behind the rush will get a lot of lame duck interceptions.  

    Been saying it for years, pass coverage doesn't happen in a vacuum, the pass rush must work in tandem with coverage or else it just looks like bad defense.



    This is very true wozzy! Where do you see the most of this improvement coming from? I know the thread is about Collins so not sure if u mean him, but I havent seen him rush the passer but just a few times this year. Do I think he can do it? yes, but I dont know if thats his role yet or maybe changes week to week, snap to snap. That is good news to me, cuz other teams have to be thinking the same. What are BBs plan for him. I guess what Im saying is WHY is our pass rush gonna be so better this year? Healthy C.Jones. T.Kelly? I think it has to be much better in order to impact our secondary in a positive way. I saw more BBDB in preseason, and I dont see BB letting the dogs loose. Guys like Jones and Nink are gonna have to be BETTER imo

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from seawolfxs. Show seawolfxs's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Just to be clear, IMO after seeing him only a little this summer, Ebner clearly is not an NFL caliber S at this time. His role is clearly ST, of which he is very good at, and very affordable. I could see him being a very attractive ST player to another team when he hits free agency...

    IMO Ebner is a S in the same sense that Slater is a WR



    I understand he is not now.

    What do you think he is missing?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    If we sack the QB, collapse the pocket and otherwise make him uncomfortable, our defense and coverage woes will be over.  Our coverage wasn't poor over the past 4 years or so, we couldn't get to the QB, the QB had all day to throw, watching that week in and out was very frustrating.

    You'll see that when opposing QB's are running for their lives, we'll get off the field faster and with more frequency and the coverage behind the rush will get a lot of lame duck interceptions.  

    Been saying it for years, pass coverage doesn't happen in a vacuum, the pass rush must work in tandem with coverage or else it just looks like bad defense.



    Wozzy. A BB defense is a read and react defense, with BB wanting first responsibility to be run containment. Hard to pressure the QB under those circumstances. 

    Also hard when you only send 3 or 4 guys at the QB with no blitzing or surprise pressure. BB very, very rarely sends a CB or S into the back field. (He usually gets burned when he does). Very few teams can create pressure from a 3 or 4 man rush. 

    This defense drives many here batty, but I truly believe this defense, and the players on this defense are playing exactly the way BB wants them to....

    1) sure tackler. Stop the run putting the other team into 2nd and long or 3 rd and long

    2) create turnovers

    3) protect the back end of the field keeping the play in front of you

    4) bend but don't break

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from wrecksryan. Show wrecksryan's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?


    Bad Idea...

    1. He's fast for a LB, not a SS..also, not sure he has the hip flexability at his size to perform well at that position

    2. He's had a tough enough time hitting the right holes and spaces to stop the running game, you think I want to watch him read pro defenses from the back end diagnosing coverages?

    3. He's got enough on his plate to worry about....let's give him time to become a pro player first, then expand his responsibilities.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    Agree with all above...

    Triple the biggest improvement will be the addition of Tommy Kelly and maturation of our young linebackers like Jones and Hightower.  But the truth is because Kelly and Vince will require attention on the inside and even two blockers can't hold them for any length of time it will open up the edge rushers; Jones and Nink should lead our team in sacks, which team wide should rise.  Even if we only send four, all four can beat blocking so that will be fun, send five and it's a jail break.

    While Ebner, Tavon and Harmon are all young it would be shortsighted to assume that one of them could not ascend and become that every down safety, we've seen it before so it may happen again. Duron to me looks to already have the brain part of it down, yes he'll make rookie mistakes, but he looked like he was always in the right place in preseason even if he didn't always make the play, he has the physical talent if he can put it all together.  

    Ebner might become that thumper, head hunter, intimidator type if he can master the cerebral part, Tavon is a little bit of both Harmon and Ebner but doesn't seem to excel at either, I am not writing any of these guys off yet, they're way too young.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to wrecksryan's comment:

     

    Bad Idea...

    1. He's fast for a LB, not a SS..also, not sure he has the hip flexability at his size to perform well at that position

    2. He's had a tough enough time hitting the right holes and spaces to stop the running game, you think I want to watch him read pro defenses from the back end diagnosing coverages?

    3. He's got enough on his plate to worry about....let's give him time to become a pro player first, then expand his responsibilities.

     

     

    He wouldn't be playing SS, he would be jamming large receivers and tightends at the line with a cover guy behind him, like we did with Terrell Owens in the Super Bowl years back using Rodney to press cover him after he burned us a few times.  And the kid ran a 4.5 at the combine, that's certainly not slow...

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    If we sack the QB, collapse the pocket and otherwise make him uncomfortable, our defense and coverage woes will be over.  Our coverage wasn't poor over the past 4 years or so, we couldn't get to the QB, the QB had all day to throw, watching that week in and out was very frustrating.

    You'll see that when opposing QB's are running for their lives, we'll get off the field faster and with more frequency and the coverage behind the rush will get a lot of lame duck interceptions.  

    Been saying it for years, pass coverage doesn't happen in a vacuum, the pass rush must work in tandem with coverage or else it just looks like bad defense.

     



    Wozzy. A BB defense is a read and react defense, with BB wanting first responsibility to be run containment. Hard to pressure the QB under those circumstances. 

     

    Also hard when you only send 3 or 4 guys at the QB with no blitzing or surprise pressure. BB very, very rarely sends a CB or S into the back field. (He usually gets burned when he does). Very few teams can create pressure from a 3 or 4 man rush. 

    This defense drives many here batty, but I truly believe this defense, and the players on this defense are playing exactly the way BB wants them to....

    1) sure tackler. Stop the run putting the other team into 2nd and long or 3 rd and long

    2) create turnovers

    3) protect the back end of the field keeping the play in front of you

    4) bend but don't break




    Exactly. BB doesnt let anyone loose. They have a million assignments of which pass rush is low on the list. Most times they are told to dance with the lineman and hold the point.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    Agree with all above...

    Triple the biggest improvement will be the addition of Tommy Kelly and maturation of our young linebackers like Jones and Hightower.  But the truth is because Kelly and Vince will require attention on the inside and even two blockers can't hold them for any length of time it will open up the edge rushers; Jones and Nink should lead our team in sacks, which team wide should rise.  Even if we only send four, all four can beat blocking so that will be fun, send five and it's a jail break.

    While Ebner, Tavon and Harmon are all young it would be shortsighted to assume that one of them could not ascend and become that every down safety, we've seen it before so it may happen again. Duron to me looks to already have the brain part of it down, yes he'll make rookie mistakes, but he looked like he was always in the right place in preseason even if he didn't always make the play, he has the physical talent if he can put it all together.  

    Ebner might become that thumper, head hunter, intimidator type if he can master the cerebral part, Tavon is a little bit of both Harmon and Ebner but doesn't seem to excel at either, I am not writing any of these guys off yet, they're way too young.

     

     




    Thanks for reply. I tend to agree with that and im hoping Kelly does just that. Give us another interior guy they have to pay attention too. Id like to think in certain formations Kelly can even be the sole lineman and give Fork a blow a here and there with the exotic packages(Kelly bring a height element Fork doenst have at 6'1)

    I would say Collins is gonna be a jackknife player that they can use situationally. Ebner is intriging, but I would say he is one more year away from being an option. If he doesnt break the lineup next year, he is career special teamer which is great for a former rugby player. I acutally think Harmon is better than I did 3 weeks ago so thats good. He looks to be able to hold his own in zone coverage where Tavon struggled. Ideally they may use both in diff. situations. Tavon can cover TEs and Rbs and be the 3rd safety but he was dreadful as an over the top, help safety. I havent seen Harmon one on one but he looks to be able to play the single high safety which BB is leaning on to get that other safety in the box. I cant see Gregory playing all game at safety.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wrecksryan. Show wrecksryan's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to wrecksryan's comment:

     

    Bad Idea...

    1. He's fast for a LB, not a SS..also, not sure he has the hip flexability at his size to perform well at that position

    2. He's had a tough enough time hitting the right holes and spaces to stop the running game, you think I want to watch him read pro defenses from the back end diagnosing coverages?

    3. He's got enough on his plate to worry about....let's give him time to become a pro player first, then expand his responsibilities.

     

     

    He wouldn't be playing SS, he would be jamming large receivers and tightends at the line with a cover guy behind him, like we did with Terrell Owens in the Super Bowl years back using Rodney to press cover him after he burned us a few times.  And the kid ran a 4.5 at the combine, that's certainly not slow...

     




    That I can see happening...but let's understand that the kid is obviously a step behind everyone right now...he's strugglinng to pick things up...he'll be fine eventually, but right now he got planty to learn...As simple as what we'de love to have him do, he doesn't know enough to make the shortcuts needed to recover once he commits to hold somewone up for more than a brush hit....

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: Collins playing a hybrid LB/SS position?

    In response to TripleOG's comment:

     

    Exactly. BB doesnt let anyone loose. They have a million assignments of which pass rush is low on the list. Most times they are told to dance with the lineman and hold the point.

    We are now shooting gaps a lot more since switching to this four man front, sometimes it's the linebacker who has to stay home, sometimes it's still the D tackles.  The Ravens really made this a staple of their defense recently, it seems like they have outside linebackers at all four linebacker positions who rush on every down and the D tackles play more two gap, it's almost as if they've eschewed the inside linebacker position.  Neither of their starting inside linebackers are a traditional "Mike" linebacker, bigger stronger like Spikes is for us or Ted Johnson was back in the day, now they have two "Wills" (Bru, Mayo) who are quicker, good in coverage, better tacklers in space.   A scary thought is that the Ravens will replace one of these inside guys now for Suggs, Dumervil or Upshaw and you could have all three of those guys at a single time getting after the QB.

     

     
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