Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

     Duron Harmon could turn out to be the 2nd coming of Ronny Lott for all I know but I can't help but feeling that once again BB has  ... and yes I will use the dreaded word ... REACHED for a safety that would likely still be there rounds later .

         ( The Ryan Logan selection that presided it doesn't help belay the thought either as I just got done watching video of Logan do a spot-on Darius Butler impersonation ... i.e. turn  / chase /  never-look-for-ball / repeat  )

    I understand BB doesn't know who's highly rated on other GM's boards  - so there's always the chance that these guys could have been stolen but...

     Given BB's recent early DB draft misses ( Butler / Ras-I / Wheatley  / Chung  / Meriweather / McCourty at corner )

    Maybe having somebody else claim them would not have been such a bad thing ?

    After all , BB does seem to do alright with later round and UFA Dbs ( Dennard / Arrington / Samuel )

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to CaptnFoxboro's comment:

     Duron Harmon could turn out to be the 2nd coming of Ronny Lott for all I know but I can't help but feeling that once again BB has  ... and yes I will use the dreaded word ... REACHED for a safety that would likely still be there rounds later .

         ( The Ryan Logan selection that presided it doesn't help belay the thought either as I just got done watching video of Logan do a spot-on Darius Butler impersonation ... i.e. turn  / chase /  never-look-for-ball / repeat  )

    I understand BB doesn't know who's highly rated on other GM's boards  - so there's always the chance that these guys could have been stolen but...

     Given BB's recent early DB draft misses ( Butler / Ras-I / Wheatley  / Chung  / Meriweather / McCourty at corner )

    Maybe having somebody else claim them would not have been such a bad thing ?

    After all , BB does seem to do alright with later round and UFA Dbs ( Dennard / Arrington / Samuel )

     




    RESPONSE: Exactly! Two years in a row now, BB has flushed a high draft choice, to get a guy who likely would have been available in the 6th or 7th rounds. With needs at WR, OL depth, and for pass-rushers...why do this? BB could have even rolled dice on one of the falling QBs, Barkley or Nassib. Three years down the road, one of these guys could pan out, and take over for an aging Tom Brady.

         Can't understand why he uses such high picks on guys that will never amount to anything more than back-ups, or special teams fodder. 

     

     
  3. This post has been removed.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NoMorePensionLooting. Show NoMorePensionLooting's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to THTM's comment:

    Bills jumped the shark,I fully expect him to get caught with dead cat ladies buried in his backyard or live ones.He is just setting up his insanity defense so in a way he is winning.




    Either I haven't had enough coffee yet....

    Or I have indeed lost too many brain cells due to old age....

    But...this post makes zero sense to me...

    Explain?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    Was Tavon Wilson that bad? As a rookie, I thought he was ok. Given the sorry state of the ENTIRE secondary, it's hard to place much blame on a rookie that had little-to-no veteran leadership.

    Pretty weak to complain less than 24 hours after the pick. Seems like some are mad because they don't know about him. So, ignorance = anger? Interesting.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    I don't think there was a clear impact safety out there at this point in the draft.  I think they are looking for a guy who can contribute on special teams and maybe end up proving he can at least back-up at the safety position. 

    It would be great if every pick could be a Ronnie Lott quality player, but there's just not that much exceptional talent out there--and in this draft class, maybe less than usual.  Belichick is trying to get guys who will contribute in some way.  Everybody seemed to agree that this draft was not rich in impact players and that most of the guys were best seen as mid round talent.  Belichick drafted like that's how he assessed the draft too. 

    I think with the rookie salary cap, BB will be moving up and drafting high more than he did in the past.  But he's only going to do that when he has enough picks to make moves and when he feels there is clear talent at the top.  In fact, that's what he did last year.  This year he had limited picks and the draft was widely seen as lacking top-tier talent, so BB's strategy ended up being different.  

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to NoMorePensionLooting's comment:

    In response to THTM's comment:

     

    Bills jumped the shark,I fully expect him to get caught with dead cat ladies buried in his backyard or live ones.He is just setting up his insanity defense so in a way he is winning.

     




    Either I haven't had enough coffee yet....

     

    Or I have indeed lost too many brain cells due to old age....

    But...this post makes zero sense to me...

    Explain?



    I suspect you haven't had enough crystal meth yet . . . Laughing

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickrand3. Show rickrand3's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    I think Tavon was a better prospect coming out of college than Harmon. My guess with this pick was for special teams purposes only.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from agill1970. Show agill1970's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    Super genius and insanity kind of go hand in hand.  And any mad scientist will tell you that you need to go through a bunch of ducks that walk into walls, before you can make one that walks through them.  I can't complain too much.  BB doesn't cater to the fans, analysts, or "draft gurus" when he drafts, but to his own whims.  And every single year he gives us at least one head scratcher that sends Mel Kiper fumbling through notepads and lists.  This year it's Harmon. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mia76. Show mia76's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to agill1970's comment:

    Super genius and insanity kind of go hand in hand.  And any mad scientist will tell you that you need to go through a bunch of ducks that walk into walls, before you can make one that walks through them.  I can't complain too much.  BB doesn't cater to the fans, analysts, or "draft gurus" when he drafts, but to his own whims.  And every single year he gives us at least one head scratcher that sends Mel Kiper fumbling through notepads and lists.  This year it's Harmon. 



    Love the duck story!

    And Prolate - nice post. The bust rate after pick 66 hits about 83% We can all point to brilliant successes after pick 66 but the reality is that 27 out of 32 picks in each round after the second never become consistent starters or impact depth players in the NFL. Hard for a fan to accept, but that is the statistical reality. And picks 45-66 are only about 10% better. So 'flushing' mid second round or third round picks happens 75+% of the time whether the pick is a consensus steal, good value, a reach, or a 'head scratcher'.

    I am willing to give BB and the scouting department a pass on missing completely when he had only a maximum 25% chance of success. And in fact by pick 91 the success rate is down to about 10% - close to just throwing a dart at a board.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    Was Tavon Wilson that bad?

    RESPONSE: For being taken with the 48th overall pick last year...YES! Had he been taken in the 5th or 6th round, a different story.

    As a rookie, I thought he was ok. Given the sorry state of the ENTIRE secondary, it's hard to place much blame on a rookie that had little-to-no veteran leadership.

    Pretty weak to complain less than 24 hours after the pick. Seems like some are mad because they don't know about him. So, ignorance = anger? Interesting.

    RESPONSE: The complaint is based on where Harmon was selected.




     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to rickrand3's comment:

    I think Tavon was a better prospect coming out of college than Harmon. My guess with this pick was for special teams purposes only.



         Is a special teams kick cover guy what the Patriots should be seeking with the 91st overall pick?

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    Disclosure :

    Watched some video on Harmon and he looks pretty stout ( a bit of a thumper ) while also looking pretty fluid in space ( for a safety anyway ) .

     His post draft quotes reflect his obviously high intelligence . 

    My gut tells me he'll end up being a better player than th previously picked Ryan Logan .

    Time will t...

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

         It's ridiculous that the Pats took Harmon, rather than take a risk on a QB of the future, like Barkley or Nassib. Had the Pats taken one of these two QBs at #91, rather than Harmon...who they probably could have gotten in round 7...I would have been extremely pleased with this draft haul. Harmon is the skunk in the woodpile...considering where he was picked...and who the Pats passed over to take him, when they did. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to CaptnFoxboro's comment:

     

    Disclosure :

    Watched some video on Harmon and he looks pretty stout ( a bit of a thumper ) while also looking pretty fluid in space ( for a safety anyway ) .

     His post draft quotes reflect his obviously high intelligence . 

    My gut tells me he'll end up being a better player than th previously picked Ryan Logan .

    Time will t...

         RESPONSE: Again, my complaint is not that the Pats took Harmon...but where they took Harmon, and who they passed over to take him. Had they taken him in round 7...or moved up to get him in round 5 or 6, I would have been fine with the pick. But...not at #91...and not with two potentially good QBs, like Barkley and Nassib, available.

         My guess is that Tim Tebow is going to be signed by the Patriots, as soon as he's inevitably released by the Jets. Thios could be why the Pats are passiong on the QBs. Look for the Jets to do everything in their power to trade Tebow to someone, to keep him away from BB and Josh McDaniels. Can you imagine the outcry, if Tebow goes to the Pats...and the Pats find a use for him?  

     

     

     




     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to ma6dragon9's comment:

     

    Was Tavon Wilson that bad?

    RESPONSE: For being taken with the 48th overall pick last year...YES! Had he been taken in the 5th or 6th round, a different story.

    As a rookie, I thought he was ok. Given the sorry state of the ENTIRE secondary, it's hard to place much blame on a rookie that had little-to-no veteran leadership.

    Pretty weak to complain less than 24 hours after the pick. Seems like some are mad because they don't know about him. So, ignorance = anger? Interesting.

    RESPONSE: The complaint is based on where Harmon was selected.




     



    This is a typical I can't admit I am wrong, so lets move the goal post. He turned to be a decent player last year on a bad secondary. List some other Safeties drafted later who did better?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

         It's ridiculous that the Pats took Harmon, rather than take a risk on a QB of the future, like Barkley or Nassib. Had the Pats taken one of these two QBs at #91, rather than Harmon...who they probably could have gotten in round 7...I would have been extremely pleased with this draft haul. Harmon is the skunk in the woodpile...considering where he was picked...and who the Pats passed over to take him, when they did. 



    They have 1 QB they can't trade now why would they draft another? Barkley was a 4th Rounder and Nassib is still on the board. Wouldn't those both be a waste of a 3rd round pick?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to BosoxJoe5's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

         It's ridiculous that the Pats took Harmon, rather than take a risk on a QB of the future, like Barkley or Nassib. Had the Pats taken one of these two QBs at #91, rather than Harmon...who they probably could have gotten in round 7...I would have been extremely pleased with this draft haul. Harmon is the skunk in the woodpile...considering where he was picked...and who the Pats passed over to take him, when they did. 


    They have 1 QB they can't trade now why would they draft another? Barkley was a 4th Rounder and Nassib is still on the board. Wouldn't those both be a waste of a 3rd round pick?

     




    RESPONSE: No, Joe. A team should never stop developing at the QB position. Tom Brady turns 36 this year. The Pats must begin to groom his replacement. Because Tom likely has a couple of good years left, the Pats can't depend on Ryan Mallett to be the guy. He'll be a RFA next year, and a UFA the following season. So...no matter how you slice it, the Pats are likely going to lose him before Brady's playing days are done.

          Having a guy like Barkley as they #3 QB for this season, would have allowed them the opportunity to see if he is the next Drew Brees, or the next Brady Quinn. If he turns out to be another Brees...what a great transition it would be...from Brady to Barkley.

         When Tom is done, and the Patriots have no one to take the reins...what then? A decade or more of futility? Finding Brady's replacement now is a must. The Pats missed a golden opportunity to check out one of two promising young QBs, in  Barkley and/or Nassib. Doesn't this make far more sense than spending the 91st overall pick on a safety, that they likely could have tabbed in the 7th round?

     

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    I was skeptical at first about Harmon, but the more I see and hear about him, how intelligent he is, how hard he works and how he really came on as the year went on for Rutgers, as well as being a first team defensive player in his league for two years in a row, I will reserve judgment until after camp at a minimum.

    What the picks of Harmon and Logan tell me is that BB is not happy with the play of the secondary at all, and that COMMUNICATION back there is pretty non existent.....I think he's picking guys from the same school who know each other pretty well to foster better communication (along with fellow Rutgers alum McCourty)and a feeling of being a unit and trust each other.....makes you wonder what was going on back there last year...



         Err...are you saying that BB is not happy with last years' reach...Tavon Wilson, taken with the 48th overall pick, in the 2012 draft? So...I guess BB's motto is that if first you reach and don't succeed, reach, reach again??

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat. Show TexasPat's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

    I'd say that Tavon Wilson was not what they expected...I also think that is true of Gregory as well...he's rebuilding the safety position, so yes, I'd say that is a tacit admission that Wilson has underwhelmed him in his progress and that the situation in the deep middle is awful.....we'll see this camp...if Tavon doesn't get a big jump in playing time and take it away from Gregory, well, let me just say you don't use a 2nd round pick to get a special teams demon....



         Thank you. Several idiots here have demonized me for a year, because I dared to critize BB's safety reach last year...Tavon Wilson. What a waste of a mid second round pick. At least this year, BB waited to late in round 3 to reach for yet another safety.  

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from pcmIV. Show pcmIV's posts

    Re: Duron Harmon = Tavon Wilson Redux ?

    Tex: Considering you wanted the Pats to take Matt Barkley in the 1st round (you know the guy who went in the 4th round) I'd say that criticizing the FO for a reach is the pot calling the kettle black.  LMAO.

     

Share