#1 Defense NE Patriots

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MoreRings. Show MoreRings's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to tenace4life's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, health provided, this defense could finish the season as the top ranked defense in the NFL.

    Major factors; Adrian Wilson, Tommy Kelly, Talib, Armond Armstead, Collins and a couple others draftees who will make the squad, as well as the jump made by the second year players.  

    We will jump from 15th in sacks, where we've ranked for a while up into the top 3 thanks to additions at DT.  

    Linebacker has never been this deep and the defensive backfield has always intercepted the ball regardless how "bad" this defense was perceived to be.

    High expectations? Yeah, but history is on our side.

     




    Agree and the best defense is a good offense that takes time off the clock and lets the defense rest on the bench.  I think the Pats will run more this year and Bolten will be a stud .  . . he certainly looked good in the camp last week.  I was very impressed with Winn but cannot see how he makes the club with Ridley, Vereen, Bolten, Washington ahead of him and I'm not sure they can carry 5 backs (if they do, one will NOT be Tebow).  Hope Winn clears wavers and gets to the practice squad as this kid is going to make it in the NFL.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    +1, this is the key.  Ball control.

    It would be nice to see Washington have an impact in the return game as well.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from anonymis. Show anonymis's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to Paul_K's comment:

    Depends on the scale used. 

    If we're counting interceptions, last year the Patriots picked off 20 of them.  BB loves 99 yard pick-6 plays because after the touchdown and touchback on the ensuing kickoff the opponent gets the ball back on their own 20, as opposed to first and goal a minute ago.  It's not just demoralizing to the other team, it's roughly a 12 point swing if you count the field position.  So, I could easily see the Pats going for #1 in interceptions this year, especially concerning those long runbacks from their own 20 yard line to the end zone.

    BB only cares about field position as it relates to improving the odds of his winning the game.  He historically gives up a lot of relatively meaningless yardage, especially at the end of the game when his team is up 21 points or so, and at the same time he wins a lot of games.  For this reason, I will probably never see the Patriots as #1 in defensive yardage given up.  BB also hates sack counts.  He likes knockdowns and hurries, especially against the Sanchize who is a comedic genius when pressured.

     




    Points against has worsened, passing yards given has worsened signficantly, red zone defense worsened for a little while, rush defense is still decent - but the other metrics are more important to improve.

    takeaway/giveaway has remained stable and the Patriots have always been top 10 more often than not in this category.

    They only need to be top 10-15 in passing yard defense

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to tenace4life's comment:


    Agree and the best defense is a good offense

     



    The best defense is a great defense that doesn't need the offense to cover for their lacking.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    His Browns defense was the best in the league by his third season as coach, his Giant's defense has a section in the Hall Of Fame, go check it out, his Patriot's defense as a coordinator got them to the Super Bowl when Parcells alone couldn't get the team over 500%, his defense as head coach of the Pats was the same one Pete Carroll inherited with nothing to show for it.  

    Of course BB the GM did draft Richard Seymour, maybe the preeminent defensive tackle of his generation to start as a rookie on a championship caliber defense but then what does Belichick know, he is a terrible GM right...

     




    BB/Pioli did get a winner in Seymour through his rookie contract (then he kicked back once he got the $$$).

     

    His 5-11 season after taking over Carroll's team (which hadn't had a losing season in3 years) got him that top 6 draft pick.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Funny how every argument you present has fine print at the bottom to explain why Belichick doesn't deserve credit for drafting Brady, Seymour, having the winningst record over the past decade etc... etc...

    "You are what your record says you are..." didn't your favorite coach Parcells say that?

    It's amazing how he's been able to stumble and bumble his way into one of the most impressive records ever.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    If the beef we have up front do their job then the back end can hide a lot of weakness. Till playoff time anyway.  This years team as said looks pretty good on paper. The front got stronger and the back is a lot better then its been in the last 5 years. I'm excited actually. 

    We have depth and the right mix of veterans and youth. Injurys are always the unknown.  We're due an injury free preseason for a change.

     

    Oh yes.   TCal.  Everyone wants to be #1, but there's nothing wrong with a solid #2


    Now you got the easy part done telling me about it.

    Does that handshaped bruise on your back 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to Tomhab's comment:


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.



    We did win three rings with bend don't break...

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    In response to Tomhab's comment:

     


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.

     



    We did win three rings with bend don't break...

     



    Really you think the 2004 2nd ranked D was BDB?  Me thinks Romeo would disagree with that Statement!

    Please give me that D this year...

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    I care very little about yardage when the Pats are up by 2 TDs or more. My concerns are PPG, TO differential, ,3rd down conversions (or preferably the lack thereof) and defense in thr red zone. I think Washington could help the offense get some good field position. I want a full season of Chandler and Talib (includes post-season). Injuries are always a concern. I knew when the added Hightower to Spikes, Mayo and Wilfork this D would be difficult to run against. Know my hope is that A Wilson, Collins, and Kelly make significant contributions on this D and  become a very effetive  pass D (TE /RB coverage, collapsing the pocket et al). #1 is bit much, I hope for a top 5 run D and top 15 pass D yardage. If the Pats D can continue to create turnovers than there is no reason the PPG can't be top ten or top 5. I am pretty much tempering my optimism with realism.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from agcsbill. Show agcsbill's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    Would we all be happy with a defense, regardless of league ranking, that does not put so much pressure on the offense to score to win?  That in itself would be great instead of the "pins and needles" we have each week as to which defense shows up.  Just be better than average, huh?

    AGCSBill, just a fan havin' fun!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to Tomhab's comment:

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Tomhab's comment:

     


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.

     



    We did win three rings with bend don't break...

     

     



    Really you think the 2004 2nd ranked D was BDB?  Me thinks Romeo would disagree with that Statement!

    Please give me that D this year...

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The defensive philosophy hasn't changed in all Belichick's time here, in fact since he was a defensive coordinator.  Defenders don't consider yards, they keep plays in front of them, give up short plays but avoid the big play, they were better in yards allowed in 2003 than 04' but the amount of yards is inconsequential in comparison to points allowed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    I think it comes down to four players...Dennard, Kelly, Hightower and Armstead. If all four of those guys are out there playing at a high level we will be very good, if we never see Armstead and instead are bringing guys from Burger King off the street to fill in every week at his spot, there won't be much of a improvement on that line. Kelly should improve them a bit, but to be a dominant D, you have to be able to have more than a couple of guys on your line that can play.

    Dennard as a player has impressed me...we need him starting out there. Hightower is the magic unicorn in all this - he was drafted high for a reason - to be a dynamic linebacker for this team...he needs to be all that. Coming out of college Hightower could get off the edge and rush, he could play the run with a lot of thump and he wasn't terrible in space...we get all that and this defense goes through the roof.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

     

     Plenty of reason for optimism and I think they'll definitely be better.  Number 1?  A lot has to go right.  As Wozzy said, first thing is they have to stay healthy.  Beyond that, we need:

    • More from the interior line.  Do we have enough there?  I worry about depth in the rotation.
    • More in the passing game from the LBs--both in coverage and the pass rush.  Got to hope for continued development from Hightower and for Collins making a contribution.  Maybe some of the DE/OLB types play a role too, especially if we go more 3-4 (something I see as less likely, but not impossible).
    • Corners need to gel.  I like Talib a lot and am pretty comfortable with Dennard and Arrington, but still not 100% sure this is a true strength.
    • Safety should be better I think, but we need more consistency beside McCourty.  I'm optimistic about A Wilson, but he is older and the rest of the safeties aren't terribly exciting yet.
    • Pass rush--in a way not as big a concern because I think Jones will be very good, but it's still an area for major improvement  if we're going to be the number one defense

    I'm hoping, though, that Tcal is wrong and they aren't #2 anymore . . . 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to Tomhab's comment:


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.



    Bend but don't break is fine, but only if you really don't break.  You also can't bend so much you can't ever get off the field.  That hurts the offense's chances, tires the defense, plus creates field position and TOP issues (and also does increase the other team's likelihood of getting at least a field goal). BB's conservative approach that keeps everything in front, stops the run, and challenges teams to execute with lots of shorter passes works well, but you have to make enough stops to limit first downs and you can't give up big plays at all. Bend but don't break with big breaks mixed in is ugly.

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    Can't see it, can't trust this defense with Ninkovich as a starting DE. Gotta see someone step up and take it from him!

    There are 32 reasons not to throw the deep ball against the New England Patriots this season, they all end in "Because Devin McCourty will INT it".

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    Can't see it, can't trust this defense with Ninkovich as a starting DE. Gotta see someone step up and take it from him!

    There are 32 reasons not to throw the deep ball against the New England Patriots this season, they all end in "Because Devin McCourty will INT it".




    Shhhhhh.....Rusty thinks he's Mike Vrabel.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RallyC. Show RallyC's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to wozzy's comment:

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, health provided, this defense could finish the season as the top ranked defense in the NFL.

    Major factors; Adrian Wilson, Tommy Kelly, Talib, Armond Armstead, Collins and a couple others draftees who will make the squad, as well as the jump made by the second year players.  

    We will jump from 15th in sacks, where we've ranked for a while up into the top 3 thanks to additions at DT.  

    Linebacker has never been this deep and the defensive backfield has always intercepted the ball regardless how "bad" this defense was perceived to be.

    High expectations? Yeah, but history is on our side.


    I dont think its much of a risk at all in saying that. Id be shocked if they arent at least top 5. Good starters, excellent depth all around. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tomhab. Show Tomhab's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to Tomhab's comment:

     


    I think the Bend Don't Break D is fine during the reaular season when your racking up 30 point a game.   But it's kind of obvious by now that is doesn't work in the playoffs when the competitions gets tougher and every play is a must make inside he 40 yard line. 

    Give me a top 5 D and a top 10 Offense this year and we'll make another run at the Superbowl and that's all we can ask for.

     



    Bend but don't break is fine, but only if you really don't break.  You also can't bend so much you can't ever get off the field.  That hurts the offense's chances, tires the defense, plus creates field position and TOP issues (and also does increase the other team's likelihood of getting at least a field goal). BB's conservative approach that keeps everything in front, stops the run, and challenges teams to execute with lots of shorter passes works well, but you have to make enough stops to limit first downs and you can't give up big plays at all. Bend but don't break with big breaks mixed in is ugly.

     

     

     



    Well that's my issue with it, if you leave a team on the field long enough they get into a rythm and you get the ugly plays like in the two SB loss' to the Giants.  If you get a few 3 and outs; they don't get those chances.

    The D line does a good job stopping the run but they don't get to the passer fast enough and our D backs can't hang on to the receiver long enough to cause a broken play to stay broken and you get a helmet or circus catch.  If Hightower and Jones are as good as they looked in a few games last year we might see more thrown away balls, interceptions and sacks this year.  Then you'll have you top 5 D.  Here's hoping!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    "but they don't get to the passer fast enough"

     

    Don't we all love the dreaded 3-man rush.  It seems to fail in every big 3rd and long situation.  Yet we keep going with it.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    ^^^^^^ lying again.  He also had more sacks then Ruth Buzzi...who cares.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49Patriots. Show 49Patriots's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to 49Patriots' comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Can't see it, can't trust this defense with Ninkovich as a starting DE. Gotta see someone step up and take it from him!

    There are 32 reasons not to throw the deep ball against the New England Patriots this season, they all end in "Because Devin McCourty will INT it".

     

     




    Shhhhhh.....Rusty thinks he's Mike Vrabel.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No, imbecile, I said he's a jack of all trades kind of LB, BB loves him and he's like a Vrabel "JUNIOR".

     

    The word "JUNIOR" to educated people reading would understand that he's not quite Vrabel, but reminiscent of that kind of player.

    You idiots are morons. He had more sacks and INTs than JPP last year.

    He's a gamer and all around the ball. Is he a star? No.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It's still insulting to mention Ninkovich in the same breath as Vrabel. "Junior" or not.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    Precious...he passed on Mathews and Dunlap because he wants more of a cerebral player....hhmm well, I would take Dunlap over Cunningham everyday, and throw in Mathews as well. Can never have enough pin your ears back morons on the team. 

    As for #1...the potential is there but I still think they need a dominant DT who can push the pocket. Don't get me wrong , vince and Kelly are good, Vince great, but I really wish we had a 5 tech de where we could play Vince, kelly and that guy, use jones and Collins outside, mayo and Hightower inside. 

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: #1 Defense NE Patriots

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    In response to Bustchise's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to russgriswold's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to tcal2-'s comment:

     

    "but they don't get to the passer fast enough"

     

    Don't we all love the dreaded 3-man rush.  It seems to fail in every big 3rd and long situation.  Yet we keep going with it.

     

     




    Yet, they've led the NFL in turnovers the last 3 years, cumulatively or the AFC outright 3 years in a row.

     

    See, what you don't get is the idea BB is way, way smarter than you. We didn't have INTs or fumbles at will from 2001-2004 like that (minus 2003) where they baited the other  team's offense.  Conceptually, though, he wants to stop the run, and then when it's 3rd and 7 or worse, force the QB to hold the ball or maybe make a mistake.  That's the recipe.  It's not about looking fast or cool trying to tackle in the backfield over and over or sack the QB. BB doesn't want that.  It's strategy.  This is why he passed on Clay Matthews or Carlos Dunlap.   He knows it's more about just pinning your ears back and going like a bat out of hell. It's cerebral.

    They'd hold to FGs or force punts, most of the time with the bend/don't break approach. They'd mix zones and man to confuse QBs.

    See, your problem is, this is well, well above your head. Well above it. Anyone can field very fast or strong athletes, but it doesn't hold up.  Look at Dungy in Indy. Major fair. Guy had speed all over but had no focus.  It was basically an NCAA D on coke.  What did it get Indy? Barely a title but Dungy was a defensive guy? Wow! All hail Dungy! LMAO  It might in the NCAA or CFL Corks, but it won't in the NFL.

    BB is such a genius, you mock his approach, which makes this sad, scary, but also comical.

     

     



    Do you know anything about the team you are supposedly a fan of? What a complete idiot you are.

     

     

    The moron that is telling someone that BB is way way smarter is the same moron that is constantly crying about BB's directive TO SCORE POINTS.  Aside from being an idiot, you're also a moron.  Let's take a quick look at the patsies turnovers in the "glory years" of 2001-2004 compared to that awful turnover ridden shotgun spread offense that BB uses now.

    2001  15 Ints / 13 fum

    2002   14 Int/ 10 fum

    2003   13 INTs /11 fum

    2004  14 INTs /13 fum

     

    2012  9 Ints /7 fum

    We know that you're too dumb to learn the game, but start with trying to learn your team.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What was Brady's TD/INT ratio in the postseason in those years?  Why aren't you showing the 2010 or 2011 seasons for defensive turnovers?  Why did you leave those years out?  LOL!

     

    Also, what's funny is, a very young D the last few years outperformed veteran Ds for us in the dynasty era in the turnover department, hence why NE has the AFC the last 3 years in turnovers and the NFL overall in the last 3 years, cumulatlively.

    LOL!

    You lose again. Brady wasn't god awful from 2001-2004 in the postseason offsetting any turnovers those Ds got. The last 5 years, it's almost like he's tried to throw games away.  it's actually been uncomfortable to watch, almost like he's been paid off to try to do it.

    Look, we all now why you overrate Brady here, and it's because BB left you at the altar. Making excuses for god awful QB play in recent postseasons and putting on BB is a joke.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    not only do you say Brady is the cause if our ills, but you now insinuate Brady was paid off to lose games? Are you completely out of your mind?  I am going to buy you a tinfoil hat with a number 12 Painted on the side to wear when you watch pats games. Serious Russ, even for you this is over the edge and into the abyss.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share