14

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    14

    Okay, I'll admit it . . .

    When Zoltan the Destroyer flipped the field against Baltimore in overtime with that 65-yard punt, I was pretty impressed.

    But Steve Grogan is 14.





















    That is all.




     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BubbaInHawaii. Show BubbaInHawaii's posts

    Re: 14

    that play was huge.  I guess if we retired all the numbers for signficant patriot players...there would still be enough numbers to go around. Laughing

    either that, or we start getting into triple digits
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmmyslinski. Show jmmyslinski's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to 14:
    [QUOTE]Okay, I'll admit it . . . When Zoltan the Destroyer flipped the field against Baltimore in overtime with that 65-yard punt, I was pretty impressed. But Steve Grogan is 14. That is all.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry bro, I love Grogan, but if you are a QB and never brought home the trophy, it's gonna be tough to get your number retired.  I can't remember how many MVP's Grogan had, but I think it's the number as our punter.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: 14

    Grogan was/is always my Favorite Pat of all time. I personally would have retired his number. John Hannah never won a Superbowl, neither did Mike Haynes. The Pats have seven  numbers retired right now and Grogan deserves it. He's in the Pats Hall of fame. But if anyone should have his number it should be Zoltan!


    New England Patriots Retired Numbers
    Num Player
    20 Gino Cappelletti
    40 Mike Haynes
    56 Andre Tippett
    57 Steve Nelson
    73 John Hannah
    78 Bruce Armstrong
    79 Jim Hunt
    89 Bob Dee

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmmyslinski. Show jmmyslinski's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]Grogan was/is always my Favorite Pat of all time. I personally would have retired his number. John Hannah never won a Superbowl, neither did Mike Haynes. The Pats have seven  numbers retired right now and Grogan deserves it. He's in the Pats Hall of fame. But if anyone should have his number it should be Zoltan! New England Patriots Retired Numbers Num Player 20 Gino Cappelletti 40 Mike Haynes 56 Andre Tippett 57 Steve Nelson 73 John Hannah 78 Bruce Armstrong 79 Jim Hunt 89 Bob Dee
    Posted by ewhite1065[/QUOTE]


    No disrespect, but how many QB's are on that list?  Grogan was an awesome QB, a great leader, and a lifetime Patriot, but he never won a ring.  That spot will be reserved for Brady.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 : No disrespect, but how many QB's are on that list?  Grogan was an awesome QB, a great leader, and a lifetime Patriot, but he never won a ring.  That spot will be reserved for Brady.
    Posted by jmmyslinski[/QUOTE]

    No Disrespect taken.. I think he deserves to be there though. He played on a lot of Bad teams that hampered his performance and some absolutely horrible coaches.
    Just my opinion..I'd like to see it.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmmyslinski. Show jmmyslinski's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 : No Disrespect taken.. I think he deserves to be there though. He played on a lot of Bad teams that hampered his performance and some absolutely horrible coaches. Just my opinion..I'd like to see it.
    Posted by ewhite1065[/QUOTE]

    I agree, I would like to see it too.  Unfortunately, I think he will miss out because of Tom Brady's achievements.  Teams hang conference championship banners until they win Super Bowls, then they only hang the Super Bowl Banners.  Unfortunately, Grogan is now lower on the list.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 14

    I think it's odd they retire some numbers and not others.     If they just would retire the person/player and not be so concerned about the number which forces them to lose it forever, they could put more people into the Pats Hall of Fame.  You know, like people are just as important as the names in there?

    Bledsoe, Ben Coates, Ty Law, McGinest, Troy Brown, Bruschi, etc, should be retired soon.  And Rodney for that matter. And Vinatieri.  Go ahead and get Kevin Faulk's number ready.   Heck, if Armstrong is in there, shouldn't Matt Light be in there?


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: 14

    Grogan deserved his number being retired... here is why:
    Considered the toughest QB to ever play the game- I know it is a subjective item but it is a universally held belief.
    Played 16 seasons for the Patriots (most)
    Was a double threat as he could run (4.9 ypc, 35 TD's rushing) as well as pass in a time when a running QB wasn't heard of and he still matched up with the gun slingers at the time.
    Has held every stastical passing record for the Patriots at one time (obviously Brady is re writting the record books).

    My best guess is he will not get his number retired, mostly due to the issue of he never won a championship and QB's take the blame for that.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ewhite1065. Show ewhite1065's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]I think it's odd they retire some numbers and not others.     If they just would retire the person/player and not be so concerned about the number which forces them to lose it forever, they could put more people into the Pats Hall of Fame.  You know, like people are just as important as the names in there? Bledsoe, Ben Coates, Ty Law, McGinest, Troy Brown, Bruschi, etc, should be retired soon.  And Rodney for that matter. And Vinatieri.  Go ahead and get Kevin Faulk's number ready.   Heck, if Armstrong is in there, shouldn't Matt Light be in there?
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]

    Not a bad Idea..Stanley Morgan too ..Those teams back then had so much talent It's a shame we didn't have the correct leadership in place after Chuck Fairbanks hit the road.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 14

    Yes. Morgan, too.  No doubt.  

    Just because they did not win rings, it doesn't mean they were not cornerstone players of an era.  Heck, Julius Adams should have his number retired.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from IndianaPatsFan. Show IndianaPatsFan's posts

    Re: 14

    A couple thoughts.

    First, if rosters are going to continue to expand- as they should if the season grows to 18 games-the practice of retiring numbers is going to have to be VERY limited. That is unless players start squeezing three digits on their backs.

    Second, what is the status of numbers like 54 and 37? They aren't retired, but no one has worn those numbers since Bruschi and Harrison left.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 14

    Sort of like no one has worn 80, if I am not mistaken. I am sure those are just nice gestures by Kraft, etc, as I am sure other teams do, to not just give it out right away.

    But, at some point, as you mention with expandiing rosters, the number thing is going to be more of an issue.

    Who cares if two GREAT players end up wearing the same number?  This isn't hockey or basketball, or even baseball.


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from JohnHannahrulz. Show JohnHannahrulz's posts

    Re: 14

    Always felt we might've had chance against the Bears with Grogan (not Eason), but we had McMurtry vs. '85 Bears defense. Grogan is high on my list of great Patriots......but I don't know. I don't put him in the same class as Hannah or Tippet (HOF Class); still love as a QB.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from USMCM1A1. Show USMCM1A1's posts

    Re: 14

    I think the issue is more that Grogan wasn't a very good QB.  As a kid I idolized Steve Grogan and Steve Nelson, but as an adult I can look back with clearer eyes.  Nelson is on that list because he played his position really, really well--he deserved the three Pro-Bowls he went to.  Grogan on the other hand, while he was a leader, very tough, and a lifelong Patriot (something I value greatly) just wasn't that good.  He was a career 52% passer, and while he did have a few years where he gained some rushing yards (and one season where he had a significant number of rushing TDs), his overall production wasn't very good.  He took a lot of sacks, threw a ton of INTs, and many years he was part of the reason Patriot teams back then weren't so good. 

    The bottom line is that Steve Grogan had 217 offensive TDs (I'm including rushing TDs because that was a significant part of Grogan's game) but threw 208 INTs and had 77 fumbles for 278 turnovers.  For every 3 TDs, Grogan gave the ball away 4 times. He gave the other team a chance to score significantly more often then he led our offense to scores.

    There's a reason that Grogan isn't regarded as a great QB.  Forget about passer stats, just looking at something as basic and critical as ball security for comparison: Tom Brady has 241 and a 120 turnovers.  Brady coughs the ball up half as often as he scores. 

    I have these fond memories of Grogan, and I respect the hell out of him, but if you take a cold, hard look at actual field play, he just wasn't very good.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 14

    i'd actually retire #s 80 and 33.
    they're not going to impress you with flashy stats, but brown and faulk embodied, and still do, the values of the patirots teams that won SBs. their personalities and their impact on games that mattered,reflected what the team was trying to say when they came out of the tunnel as a team in the 2001 SB.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 14

    Brown and Faulk would be Hall of Famers if they had played in earlier eras of the NFL.  Their lack of eyepopping stats diminishes the perception of their stature in the cap era.

    Game on the line, need a play, 3rd down, there are two players in the NFL over the past 15 years, at WR and RB, and none were better than Brown and Faulk.

    Faulk has been the best 3rd down/scatback of the past 10 years and it's not close.

    Reggie Bush wishes he's had the impact Faulk has had.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to 14:
    [QUOTE]Okay, I'll admit it . . . When Zoltan the Destroyer flipped the field against Baltimore in overtime with that 65-yard punt, I was pretty impressed. But Steve Grogan is 14. That is all.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    F'in A.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LazarusintheSanatorium. Show LazarusintheSanatorium's posts

    Re: 14

    I'm somewhat unsure why not 1 single person has mentioned neither Kenneth Simms, Ray Agnew, Chris Singleton, Hart Lee Dykes or Andy Katzenmoyer in the same HOF Retirement Number breath...sad.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]I think the issue is more that Grogan wasn't a very good QB.  Posted by USMCM1A1[/QUOTE]

    Steve Grogan was the heart and soul of Patriots teams that could have taught a thing or two to the kind of spoiled, bandwagon deuschebags who root for New England now.

    You can take your statistics and put them in a warm, dark place, my friend.




     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]I'm somewhat unsure why not 1 single person has mentioned neither Kenneth Simms, Ray Agnew, Chris Singleton, Hart Lee Dykes or Andy Katzenmoyer in the same HOF Retirement Number breath...sad.
    Posted by LazarusintheSanatorium[/QUOTE]

    Somewhere Eugene Chung and Chris Canty are incensed.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tcal2. Show Tcal2's posts

    Re: 14

    Retiring a number is silly.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from USMCM1A1. Show USMCM1A1's posts

    Re: 14

    Could there be a football player more worthy of enshrinement in the NFL Hall of Fame than Troy Brown?  The only three-way player in the modern era, he had overall great football production and showed football intelligence and situational awareness that I can't think of legitimate comparison to.

    Obviously he can't get in as a WR.  The only contemporaneous enshrinee as a WR is Michael Irvin, and Irvin's career 11,900 receiving yards and 65 TDs dwarfs Brown's receiving stats.  But when you include return yards, Brown's career yards go up to 10, 823, very comparable, although his TD count is still much lower: 38.

    But Michael Irvin never played as a defensive back for two seasons in the modern, specialist era.  Michael Irvin had some big performances in Super Bowls, but he never, ever played offense, defense and special teams in one.  And although Irvin did come up big on occasion in some big games (SB 27, 7 for 114yds w/ 2 TDs), that pales in comparison to the kinds of game changing situationally aware plays Brown made: 2007 Divisional round stripping the ball from Marlin MCCree, the blocked punt and lateral/punt return TD in the AFC Championship game against Pittsburgh, the 81 yard OT bomb he caught against Miami...the list goes on.

    His size, coming out of Marshall, there were so many reasons for him to not be succesful, but his smarts and determination let him maximize his ability.

    #80 belongs in the NFL HoF.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 : Steve Grogan was the heart and soul of Patriots teams that could have taught a thing or two to the kind of spoiled, bandwagon deuschebags who root for New England now. You can take your statistics and put them in a warm, dark place, my friend.
    Posted by p-mike[/QUOTE]

    -

    Here's a guy who really knows how to debate.  LoL

    Wouldn't you just love to be his kid.  What a father he's going to make someday.  Ouch.  I hope that's far in the future when and if a little maturity sets in.

    As for Brown, I'd retire his number in a heartbeat, but for Faulk, let's wait until he's retired before we have that talk.  Both clutch guys, for sure.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from p-mike. Show p-mike's posts

    Re: 14

    In Response to Re: 14:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 14 : - Here's a guy who really knows how to debate.  LoL Wouldn't you just love to be his kid.  What a father he's going to make someday.  Ouch.  I hope that's far in the future when and if a little maturity sets in. As for Brown, I'd retire his number in a heartbeat, but for Faulk, let's wait until he's retired before we have that talk.  Both clutch guys, for sure.
    Posted by RajonRondowski[/QUOTE]

    As opposed to a guy like Bukowski here, who on Monday morning says he really can't abide the way the boards are moderated and won't be back to the Celtics' forum . . .


    and then three minutes later on Monday morning comes back to rail about how his opinion can't get any run and we're all so immature and silly.

    And yet . . .

    here he is again.


    Stay in the shallow end, little boy.

    It's dangerous out here on the edge.


    You were much better off when I didn't care who you were.




     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share