2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Salcon. Show Salcon's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    In response to wozzy's comment:

     

    Also consider how many extra picks our GM has found for us, that should count for something right?!  Jackholes...

     




    Or undrafted FAs that he develops. You can't draft drive and passion to be better. Well, sometimes you can, but who cares where someone is drafted anyway?  Outside of the 1st rd money (or maybe 2nd rd), which doesn't apply anymore anyway, who cares?

     

    Our little anti-BB clique are all pink helmets and have mental illness.  They also clearly were not  fans during the Sullivan years. No way.  They would have different perspective if they had been.

    Imagine pink helmets like this lecturing long time and educated fans? lol

     



    I realize that Tom Brady is the best qb this franchise has ever had but also BB is the best Coach/Gm this team has ever had and Kraft is by far the best owner this franchise has ever had.

     

    If you're a Pats fan that goes back to atleast the Sullivan years you have to think that life as a Pats fan is great.  

    But some people seem like they are so disgusted with the Pats/BB I can't believe they continue to support the team.  You would think they were the annual cellar-dwellers of the AFC East.

    You said, "Entitled."  That seems apt.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    The devastation of the BBWs continues. These facts make them squirm and crap themselves simultaneously. lol

    All up to how Brady wants to be in January.



    Oh shut  up already. What does one have to do with the other. This is about drafting, but leave it to you to throw in a jab at Brady whenever possible. Yea cuz Im sure Brady "wants" to lose SB's,. I mean he has 3 already so obviously he is just sabotaging the team right?  Find a new Agenda Trol! Even Wozzy is arguing with you these days. If not for redsoxfan, I dont know if anyone agrees with your BS!!!  and then u have the nerve to call others trolls. What do you call this BS in Bold???

    The other day you got hosed down for trying to tell a grown man he cant celebrate. Wow what a misreble person you are. If you are so smart, why cant you see how Dum u look?? That trolling you did yesterday exposed you as a no -life, no friend, boring, patriots obsessed Leech who cant stand to see someone have fun or see someone with a wife and family. I mean its one thing to continue to rag on the best QB in the game, but totally another to start taking jabs at his personal life while calling yourself a die hard fan. Lose the Agenda Troll! You are...*edit, you Have ruined the Board!

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to alfred-e-bob-neumier's comment:

     

    C'mon TP...dude writes an article, someone on this thread points it out...it is what it is...just let it stand on it's own...  :}

         RESPONSE: This article is both incorrect and misleading, as I pointed out previously. But...you homers go right on thinking that BB is the greatest GM if you wish...while the team crumbles under the weight of the fodder of his wasted high draft choices, over the years.


    As I pointed out, your entire previous post where you pointed this out was factually wrong.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Yeah, but if Wikipedia is correct, the Pats' pro bowl players by draft over this period are:

     

    2010: McCourty, Gronk, Hernandez

    2008: Mayo, Slater

    2007: Merriweather

    2006: Gostkowski


    Hernandez has never made a Pro Bowl, and I think they discounted Ghost due to being a kicker.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from TripleOG. Show TripleOG's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    My answer to this would be. A lot of us feel the current starters could and should be upgraded. Some of the guys on our team I would not miss. This is about Balance. Weve been unbalanced for years. Offense jumping out to big leads and the defense allowing teams to storm back. IN hindsight, the 2007 offense should never have been assembled unless there was a very formidable pass rush in place. The fact that fans are still wanting more pressure in 2013 is a Joke! Take Indy for example. Also had a great Qb and great offense that mostly got up on teams quick. The difference is, they had the 2 dynamic pass rushers to combat teams throwing there way back into the game. This is what pezz talks about when he sais we cant move to a ball control offense cuz we dont have a ball control defense. They dont produce enough 3 and outs to just run the ball. They also dont rush the passer enough to keep cheap QBs from storming back. The Defense is just there. They do a lot of things well, but arent great at anything. Its a joke that BB just drafted his 1st real pass rusher last year. U need Rushers, if you are gonna go up 21-0. You have to stop the pass and we are always close to last lately...smh

     

     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    BB has cyclically rebuilt this team.  You can go through his history of team construction and pretty much see which units he has focused on rebuilding, and when:

    D-line - overhauled 2001-2004 (Seymour, Green, Warren, Wilfork, Hill) and 2010-2012 (Deaderick, Cunningham, Jones, Bequette; I expect the next year or 2 will see him focus here more)

    TEs - overhauled 2002-2004 (Fauria, Graham, Watson) and again 2010 (Gronk, Hernandez)

    DBs - overhauled 2003-2005 (Harrison, Wilson, Samuel, Hobbs), 2010-2013 (McCourty, Dennard, Talib, T. Wilson)

    RBs - overhauled 2005-2007 (S.Morris, Evan, Maroney) and again 2010-2011 (Woodhead, Ridley, Vereen)

    WRs - overhauled in FA  in 2007 (Welker, Moss, Stallworth), again 2013 (Amendola, Dobson, Boyce, Jones)

    LBs - overhauled 2008-2012 (Mayo, Nink, Spikes, Hightower)

    The offensive line is really the only unit that has seen a pretty consistent, slow turnover, without any mass infusion of talent at any one time.  And of course, QB has been pretty ok for the past decade plus.

    The result has been the best regular season record since 2000, the best post-season record since 2000, the most Super Bowl appearances and Super Bowl victories since 2000, and a competitive YOUNG team in 2013 that is well positioned to continue this stretch of excellence into the future.  All this despite consistently having the worst draft position in the NFL due to their lofty record.

    I'm pretty ok with the team "crumbling under the weight of the fodder of his wasted high draft choices, over the years" if this is the result.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    . . . . "crumbling under the weight of the fodder of his wasted high draft choices, over the years". . . . 

     



    I confess to not having read in minute detail every post in this thread so I ask that you bear with me.  Did someone actually post that assemblage of bat guano?  I mean, seriously???

    And MattCo5, I realize you were quoting someone else.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattC05. Show MattC05's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to ATJ's comment:

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    . . . . "crumbling under the weight of the fodder of his wasted high draft choices, over the years". . . . 

     



    I confess to not having read in minute detail every post in this thread so I ask that you bear with me.  Did someone actually post that assemblage of bat guano?  I mean, seriously???

    And MattCo5, I realize you were quoting someone else.

     



    Yeah, that was a TexasPat quote.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to MattC05's comment:

     

    . . . . "crumbling under the weight of the fodder of his wasted high draft choices, over the years". . . .  



    I confess to not having read in minute detail every post in this thread so I ask that you bear with me.  Did someone actually post that assemblage of bat guano?  I mean, seriously???

    And MattCo5, I realize you were quoting someone else.

     

    Yeah, that was a TexasPat quote.

     

     



    A classic example of never letting the facts stand in the way of a lyrical, albeit imbecilic, quote.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     



    I rarely take issue with anything that you post however, Deion Branch, early in his career was an impact player.  Or were you referring to Branch in recent years? 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     

     



    I rarely take issue with anything that you post however, Deion Branch, early in his career was an impact player.  Or were you referring to Branch in recent years? 

     

     



    Yes recent years.  I agree fully about him during his first stint. My only point here is that the Pats have a number of weak spots in certain starting positions that could easily have been filled with draftees.  It's not like the team is so stacked that no rookie could break the lineup. In the past two years Branch would be one guy who easily could have been supplanted by a draftee.

     

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ATJ. Show ATJ's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     

     



    I rarely take issue with anything that you post however, Deion Branch, early in his career was an impact player.  Or were you referring to Branch in recent years? 

     

     



    Yes recent years.  I agree fully about him during his first stint. My only point here is that the Pats have a number of weak spots in certain starting positions that could easily have been filled with draftees.  It's not like the team is so stacked that no rookie could break the lineup. In the past two years Branch would be one guy who easily could have been supplanted by a draftee.

     



    Understood and agree that the level of talent is not consistent across the 53-man roster.  Be interesting to see how this year's edition shapes up.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from prolate0spheroid. Show prolate0spheroid's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     

     



    I rarely take issue with anything that you post however, Deion Branch, early in his career was an impact player.  Or were you referring to Branch in recent years? 

     

     



    Yes recent years.  I agree fully about him during his first stint. My only point here is that the Pats have a number of weak spots in certain starting positions that could easily have been filled with draftees.  It's not like the team is so stacked that no rookie could break the lineup. In the past two years Branch would be one guy who easily could have been supplanted by a draftee.

     

     



    What do you expect the draft yield to be, though?  You act like the 2010-2012 drafts have had no impact.

     

    Also, his 2011 FA class was very good.

    Do you really expect 100% draft yields and flawless FA moves every year?  This is sort of what we mean.

    Finally, how would you grade Brady's postseasons since 2006 overall? 



    Recent drafts have been very good.  I continue to maintain that BB is one of the best at building a solid team. At the same time, I think some of his misses are significant enough that we can't simply say he's the best ever or light years ahead of guys like Newsome or Reese or Thompson.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from leonardo0110. Show leonardo0110's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    I wish we have a top 10 pick every year...That way we'll have PB all across the board....Anyone care to give me the % of BB misses on his 1st round picks compared to other teams?

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from csylvia79. Show csylvia79's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

     

    So Rusty how does Brady on his own play better? ... Did he have the time to throw the ball that Flacco had? Did his wr make plays on close jump balls.  Did his running game make key 1st downs or TDs? Hell name one clutch play the team did in the game?

     

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