2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

    In response to ATJ's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    In response to TrueChamp's comment:

     

    In response to prolate0spheroid's comment:

     

    Not sure this reads like a ringing endorsement:

    I wasn't planning to include thePatriots because it feels like head coach Bill Belichick has lost his fastball at drafting in recent years. In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately.

    Furthermore, maybe the most interesting stat from the New Orleans article is that according to the author, the Pats 66 picks produced only 10 starters. Compare that with the Packers who got 18 starters with 64 picks or the Broncos with 17 starters in just 55 picks.     I think this just confirms my own feeling that BB is a good drafter (probably in the top 5 or 6), but not necessarily the best.  



    Does anybody agree with the premise that it's more difficult to field starters when you already have a team that wins more then any other? Or when you have more draft picks then most teams over the course of a decade due to your brilliance of acquiring more picks.

     

    Perhaps I do not explain my point well enough but take this year for example. We are coming off a SB and afc championship appearance. We are returning 22 of 24 starters from last years team. We are 1 of the youngest teams in the LG. how many starters can we expect to have drafted this year? Or in years past with similar situations? Other teams that do not have the luxury of  BB building their teams have gone through losing seasons...ALL OF THEM. It is more difficult for a player to shine in our system when you already have a 13-3 team every year. 

     

     

     

     



    This argument would be easier to make if the Pats weren't starting drafted guys like Darius Butler and Deion Branch and a lot of guys they didn't draft like BJGE and Danny Woodhead. These are very replaceable players.

     

     

     



    I rarely take issue with anything that you post however, Deion Branch, early in his career was an impact player.  Or were you referring to Branch in recent years? 

     

     



    Yes recent years.  I agree fully about him during his first stint. My only point here is that the Pats have a number of weak spots in certain starting positions that could easily have been filled with draftees.  It's not like the team is so stacked that no rookie could break the lineup. In the past two years Branch would be one guy who easily could have been supplanted by a draftee.

     




    This was the point I made in my last thread. People keeping talking about returning starters, but it doenst mean fans are happy with whoever u stick out there as a starter. A starter is Anybody BB puts on the field but Im sure a lot of folks would like to see upgrades. How do you put so much reliance on a passing attack and have NO depth behind Welker and Lloyd and then lose both for short money and bring in all rooks and has beens.??  Hope it works out, but Im hoping the defense is much better to offset any offensive setbacks

     
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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to jri37's comment:

    In response to leonardo0110's comment:

     

    I wish we have a top 10 pick every year...That way we'll have PB all across the board....Anyone care to give me the % of BB misses on his 1st round picks compared to other teams?

     




     

    If we had top 10 picks every it would have meant that BB was a terrible coach/GM and TB was a terrible QB. Bottom line is even though our coach, GM, and QB have made mistakes this franchise is a close to a model franchise as you can get in the NFL.



    I was being sarcastic about it....people here complain about the draft hits and misses..but really...even the first overall pick has a chance to be a bust...all I care about are wins..and that..we get a lot here...I could care less about % of hit and misses on draft day..BB can bring a guy from the street...from retirement...from china...I don't care where he finds them..as long as those players help us win...I'm more than ok with that...

     
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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

    In response to jri37's comment:

     

    In response to TexasPat's comment:

     

    In response to BostonTrollSpanker's comment:

     

    You neglected to mention this part: " In reality, he suffered through a very rough stretch from '06-'09 before bouncing back in a major way lately."

    I agree. I think the 2006-2009 case is much harder to make. Have fun trying to make it. 

    "C'mon TP...dude writes an article, someone on this thread points it out...it is what it is...just let it stand on it's own.."

    If true this article undermines a great deal of what TP has been serving up in here so TP will go to great lengths to undermine the article. 

    RESPONSE: Even if true...which it isn't, this article has does nothing to ease my criticisms of BB. I challenge any of you to look back at the drafts from 2006-12...especially at the first, second, and third rounders taken. From 2006-09, BB was a disaster. Overall, BB has had 66 draft selections during this period...with 15 hits. That comes out to a .223 batting average. Not good.   

    Tell me, those who particularly enjoyed this article, does the fact that we are listed in the top five with the Ravens and the Giants, two teams that have had their way with us in big games in recent years, make you feel any better about that? Because it doesn't do that for me.

    RESPONSE: Why doesn't it make you feel better? Because you realize that the Patriots have fallen a notch behind the elite teams...with their lack of talent on defense in particular, getting exposed each year in the play-offs. The greatness of BB the coach and Tom Brady can camoflague the warts during the regular season. But in the play-offs, the Pats lack of talent catches up with them...and the talent deficiency can be traced back to all the BB misses in past drafts.   

     




     

     




     

    So who are the elite teams and does going to the AFCCG  not qualify a team for being elite? I have heard from other posters on this board (i am not saying it was you) what a tremndous accomplishment this was when the jets did it and how great a team they were even though they lost both times.

     

    Bottom line is the Pat's were  a couple of plays from having wom 5 SB's in 12 years and yet the orginization gets criticized like they are the Cleveland browns.

     



         The bottom line is that the Pats are not beating the better teams in the play-offs. Oh...they'll win the first round games...but when the true heavyweights square off against them, they come up short...even when playing at home.

     

         Does anyone here really think that the Pats have gained enough on Denver, Baltimore, and San Francisco in this off-season to surpass them?

     




    People should definitely try to answer this question four months before the season starts.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to neinmd's comment:


    I know there are strong feelings on this discussion board about this issue but facts are hard to refute.




    They are. And the article states...

    "Here's a look at the five front offices we believe are the best at what they do." No facts there.

    And it also states....

    "Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots."

    Which is a fact, but a flawed measure. Since that counts a single pro bowl year player the same as a multiple all-pro year player. Obviously a guy with 5 all-pro years is an immeasurably better pick than a one year Popularity Bowler. There's a fact for you. We've been down this road of fallacy before and it was easily shot down then as it is now.

     

     

     
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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    Do you realize the reason we have these supposed Pats fans who run around here as trolls doing this?

     



    Yeah. Because many of us are not insane like you nutjob.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from neinmd. Show neinmd's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     


    I know there are strong feelings on this discussion board about this issue but facts are hard to refute.

     




     

    They are. And the article states...

    "Here's a look at the five front offices we believe are the best at what they do." No facts there.

    And it also states....

    "Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots."

    Which is a fact, but a flawed measure. Since that counts a single pro bowl year player the same as a multiple all-pro year player. Obviously a guy with 5 all-pro years is an immeasurably better pick than a one year Popularity Bowler. There's a fact for you. We've been down this road of fallacy before and it was easily shot down then as it is now.

     

     




    I didn't think you would be persuaded away from your convictions. I am OK with that. Let's just agree to disagree on this issue. There is a lot you say that I do agree with.

    In my opinion, BB is the best thing that ever happened to the Patriots. And I suppose if Parcells hadn't come to New England, BB might never have ended up here so we have him to thank as well.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to neinmd's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to neinmd's comment:

     


    I know there are strong feelings on this discussion board about this issue but facts are hard to refute.

     




     

    They are. And the article states...

    "Here's a look at the five front offices we believe are the best at what they do." No facts there.

    And it also states....

    "Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots."

    Which is a fact, but a flawed measure. Since that counts a single pro bowl year player the same as a multiple all-pro year player. Obviously a guy with 5 all-pro years is an immeasurably better pick than a one year Popularity Bowler. There's a fact for you. We've been down this road of fallacy before and it was easily shot down then as it is now.

     

     

     




    I didn't think you would be persuaded away from your convictions. I am OK with that. Let's just agree to disagree on this issue. There is a lot you say that I do agree with.

     

    In my opinion, BB is the best thing that ever happened to the Patriots. And I suppose if Parcells hadn't come to New England, BB might never have ended up here so we have him to thank as well.




    Bottom line results like a couple of Lombardis won in the last 8 years could have probably persuaded me to somewhat different point of view.

    I'm not one to get all happy about losing SBs, losing AFCCGs and winning Division Titles. Some like that. I'm not one of them. And the 3 SBs in 4 years were accomplished by being blessed with the luckiest draft pick in NFL history along with a bevy of inherited star players. So I wouldn't be joining the BB is the best thing that ever happened to the Patriots club. Then there's the spygate thing as well. Dumb.

    One of the best things? Sure.

     

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Also, the fact you just mentioned Spygate, which means you believe the lies and the witch hunt that it was, means you're a troll.

     



    I believe when the league sends out a memo saying cut the crapola and you keep up the crapola you're being an idiot and asking to get slammed. I believe when you put a stain on my beloved team from sheer stupidity I'm going to frown on that.

    I've never called BB a cheater. Stupid, yes, cheater, no. Of course Kraft called him a putz because of it. Is Kraft a troll too moron?

     
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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     


    You call me a nutjob and then you just said above that BB's coaching or personnel work as GM is affected by this "little thing called Spygate".

     

     



    Ahh, no dumbkoff. My point about spygate was in reference to the poster's claim that BB was "the best thing that ever happened to the team", not about his coaching or personnel work being affected by spygate as you stupidly claim. You are so dense. No way in hell you have a 150 IQ.

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     

    Also, the fact you just mentioned Spygate, which means you believe the lies and the witch hunt that it was, means you're a troll.

     

     



    I believe when the league sends out a memo saying cut the crapola and you keep up the crapola you're being an idiot and asking to get slammed. I believe when you put a stain on my beloved team from sheer stupidity I'm going to frown on that.

     

    I've never called BB a cheater. Stupid, yes, cheater, no. Of course Kraft called him a putz because of it. Is Kraft a troll too moron?

     




    Messing with Manboobs is "stupidity"?  Explain that one, Diapers. 

     

     

     



    Messing with Manbbobs is being a "putz"? Ask Kraft to explain that one psychoboy.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    Get your facts straight. The NFL did nothing with regards to cameras on the sidelines in 2006 either. All they did was shut the Jets down, they didn't run to the media basically lying and making up stories what went down.

     


    The Pats didn't turn the jets into the league bonehead. That's the difference. You are hopelessly stupid.

     

     
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    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

    As far as Kraft calling him a name, the fact is, the Krafts, BB, Brady, etc, they have no idea about some franchises hidden intense jealousy for what they have earned or continue to do.

     


    Oh, but you do? LMFAO@U Get help mental case.

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     

    Also, please source where Kraft called him a "putz".  Bill Belichick has made Kraft millions by drafting Brady and being the best coach and GM. Far from a "putz", Diapers.


    Actually he called him a "schmuk", you schmuk.

     

     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BabeParilli. Show BabeParilli's posts

    Re: 2006-2012: Over that span, no team drafted more combined Pro Bowl and All-Pro players than the Patriots

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

    In response to BabeParilli's comment:

     

    In response to BassFishingII's comment:

     

     

    As far as Kraft calling him a name, the fact is, the Krafts, BB, Brady, etc, they have no idea about some franchises hidden intense jealousy for what they have earned or continue to do.

     

     

     


    Oh, but you do? LMFAO@U Get help mental case.

     



    Umm, yes. I do. 



    If only Kraft and BB understood the NFL like you do nutjob, boy oh boy they would be so much better of. What a putz you are.

     
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