2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEforever. Show NEforever's posts

    2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    Was it worth trading the 1st round draft pick for 2nd rounds?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ritchie-az. Show Ritchie-az's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    Time will tell, but it appears the answer is "yes".
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Paul_K. Show Paul_K's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    Yes, yes, yes, yes.  The Patriots made somewhere near 10 trades, maybe more, and every trade brought in just a little extra from the last trade.  They seem to have gotten all the guys that they had their eyes on.  The second pick in the third round, McKenzie, was a first-year bust (literally) but the five guys ahead of him all seem reasonable.

    On top of this they saved enough money this year to hire or trade for 11 new free agents.  Some of their warehouse of picks went to corral these free agents.

    Specifically, they traded out of pick 23 for pick 26 and a small bonus.  If nothing else, this trade kept them in the trade derby with a tradeable first round pick. 

    Then the Pats pulled off a major move, from pick 26 to pick 41 and a third rounder.  Historically, desperate coaches make magnanimous offers for the Patriots' first rounders.  I can't keep all of the Patriots' four third rounders straight, but two of them soon became second rounders next year.  It's really the Patriots' whole body of trading work that counts.  Anyways, the Pats were already overloaded on 2009 roster spots and their moving two big picks to 2010 for second rounders (probably late second rounders but you never know) was such a deal!  A late first rounder for an early second rounder, a late second rounder and a fifth rounder on the side is robbery.

    This year's late second rounder was Vollmer and pick #41 was Butler.  So, let's say the equivalent of Vollmer, Butler, half of Rich Ohrmberger and half of Jacob Ingram all came from that #23 first round pick.  Vollmer is a find.  Butler is coming along nicely.  Ingram will probably make the team and solve a problem.  Ohrmberger is still a question mark.  BB still has an old team but it got a lot younger and deeper off of one pick. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NEforever. Show NEforever's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    In Response to Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd:
    [QUOTE]Yes, yes, yes, yes.  The Patriots made somewhere near 10 trades, maybe more, and every trade brought in just a little extra from the last trade.  They seem to have gotten all the guys that they had their eyes on.  The second pick in the third round, McKenzie, was a first-year bust (literally) but the five guys ahead of him all seem reasonable. On top of this they saved enough money this year to hire or trade for 11 new free agents.  Some of their warehouse of picks went to corral these free agents. Specifically, they traded out of pick 23 for pick 26 and a small bonus.  If nothing else, this trade kept them in the trade derby with a tradeable first round pick.  Then the Pats pulled off a major move, from pick 26 to pick 41 and a third rounder.  Historically, desperate coaches make magnanimous offers for the Patriots' first rounders.  I can't keep all of the Patriots' four third rounders straight, but two of them soon became second rounders next year.  It's really the Patriots' whole body of trading work that counts.  Anyways, the Pats were already overloaded on 2009 roster spots and their moving two big picks to 2010 for second rounders (probably late second rounders but you never know) was such a deal!  A late first rounder for an early second rounder, a late second rounder and a fifth rounder on the side is robbery. This year's late second rounder was Vollmer and pick #41 was Butler.  So, let's say the equivalent of Vollmer, Butler, half of Rich Ohrmberger and half of Jacob Ingram all came from that #23 first round pick.  Vollmer is a find.  Butler is coming along nicely.  Ingram will probably make the team and solve a problem.  Ohrmberger is still a question mark.  BB still has an old team but it got a lot younger and deeper off of one pick. 
    Posted by Paul_K[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    In Response to 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd:
    [QUOTE]Was it worth trading the 1st round draft pick for 2nd rounds?
    Posted by NEforever[/QUOTE]

         I'll let you be the judge, my friend.

         The Patriots traded their #1 pick, 23rd overall, to Baltimore for the Ravens' #1 pick, 26th overall, and 5th round pick (162nd overall).

         The Pats then traded the two aforementioned picks acquired from the Ravens to Green Bay for the Packers' second-round pick (41st overall, used to select Darius Butler) and two third-round selections (73rd overall, traded to Jacksonville, who selected Derek Cox; and 83rd overall, used to select Brandon Tate). 

         The Pats then traded the 73rd overall pick acquired from Green Bay to Jacksonville, for the Jaguars' 2nd round pick in 2010, and their 7th round pick in the 2009 draft, #232 overall...which was used to select WR Julian Edelman.

         To summarize, for their #1 draft pick, 23rd overall, the Pats ended up getting CB Darius Butler, WR Brandon Tate, WR Julian Edelman, and Jacksonville's 2nd rounder in 2010!!  
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from mosseffect43. Show mosseffect43's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    now next year the pats have there 1st and three 2nd rd picks.then they dont have one until the 5th or 6th.so i see the 1st,or 2nd rd pick or two of the 2nds turning into multiple picks to make up for what they dont have,and then some.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from joe81b. Show joe81b's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    Seeing how tough the cuts are going to be this year, I would rather take fewer picks in higher rounds.  I will be surprised if we dont lose some players off waivers or taken from our PS so lets take higher impact players that are sure to make the roster.  and I do realize that for every Chad Jackson theres a Julian Edelman
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carawaydj. Show carawaydj's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    In Response to Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd:
    [QUOTE]Seeing how tough the cuts are going to be this year, I would rather take fewer picks in higher rounds.  I will be surprised if we dont lose some players off waivers or taken from our PS so lets take higher impact players that are sure to make the roster.  and I do realize that for every Chad Jackson theres a Julian Edelman
    Posted by joe81b[/QUOTE]

    You are right about the PS.  There will be no sneaking any players of value onto the practice squad this year.  BB has to know that though.  That leads me to think we will see some surprising veteran cuts.  

    I think we are better off doing what we did.  In one of my posts about a week ago, I linked to an article that analyzed injuries in-depth last year. It also provided some injury stats for the past 10 SB winners.  8 of the top 10 healthiest teams last year were playoff teams.  Most of the Superbowl champions over the last 10 years ranked in the top 5 or top 10 healthiest teams for the year.  The notable exception was the Pats.  The Pats won the SB in 2003 being the MOST injured team for the year.  We were in the bottom half in 2004.  Only in 2001 were we in the top 10 healthiest teams.

    What's my point?  With the exception of the Pats, there is a very strong correlation between injuries and both making the playoffs, and winning the SB.  The Pats buck that trend in a big way.  No team has done as well as the Pats have with as many injuries so often.  What's the secret (besides TB & BB)?  Depth.  

    I always thought the Pats had more injuries than the average team.  It wasn't in my head.  The Pats truly do suffer a lot of injuries.  Last year only 3 teams in the NFL had more injuries.  We were the 9th healthiest team in 2001, but the 32nd healthiest team in 2003, the 19th healthiest team for 2004, and last year we were #29.  In other words, the Pats have a solid history of having an above average amount of injuries.  Given our track record for injuries, I say drafting for depth is by far the smartest strategy.  Why we have so many injuries should be another thread in itself.  Don't we have one of the top conditioning coaches in the NFL?

    Here is the injury thread that links to the article.  It opened my eyes to the extent that injuries, or lack thereof, impact a team.  I knew they had an impact, but didn't know just how much. http://www.boston.com/community/forums.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aSportsForum%3a9690Discussion%3a7399f610-e700-47f6-8688-5e5b13153d59
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from unclealfie. Show unclealfie's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    In Response to 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd:
    [QUOTE]Was it worth trading the 1st round draft pick for 2nd rounds?
    Posted by NEforever[/QUOTE]
    As we saw in this year's draft BB will trade out of the first round if the players he covets are not available from our late first round position. Its worked for us in the past but the relative value between first and second rounds is closing for that very reason. I believe he'd love to get an impact OLB in the first round and that he'd even trade up to get him but only if he's that special BB player.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mountainmonkey. Show mountainmonkey's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    to add just a comment, I also think BB posiitions himself toward a predetermined position based on his assessment of that individual draft year. 2009 was considered a deep draft, but one with less than 20 players with first round grades.He saw real value in the second and third round and positioned himself there. It seems that BB is playing three dimensional chess...everyone else is playing checkers.....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Belenus555. Show Belenus555's posts

    Re: 2009 trading out 1 round for 2nd

    Actually MM, BB is actually applying a well-balanced series of sente, gote, and tenuki moves out of Go upon the NFL, while the rest of the league is playing chess and checkers.

    Sente corresponds to taking the initiative anywhere on the Go board (360 squares vs. 64 for chess) and the player who holds the sente position most during the match - most often controls the flow of the match.

    Gote corresponds to taking a defensive position when called for as a result of a sente move. Since most plays in Go are rarely "forcing" plays, most of the time the opponent may use tenuki: carrying the action elsewhere as a means of either: a/ distracting the opponent away from the intended result of the original sente move; and/or b/create the foundations for further moves in the middle- or more likely end-game.
     
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