2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    We can package 22 and 53 to move up to 15 if someone like Dan Williams is still on the board.  What other players would we be willing to do that for?  I'd do it for Williams or any of the below. Rolando McClain Derrick Morgan Earl Thomas C.J. Spiller If we land all those comp picks I'd consider moving up from #44 to #40 using our 6th and both 7's if any of these players are there. DeMaryius Thomas Jahvid Best Devin McCourty Jermaine Gresham
    Posted by Faucetman

    I've heard them say Morgan is one of the safest picks in the 1st round.

    I have also heard them say, however, he is very much best suited to be a 4-3 DE.

    Personally I have no idea.

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I've wished for something similar. The hard part is finding the right situation and or a willing partner. But either trading just a handful of picks back/down in round one AND/OR trading back/down further to the end of round two with one of our earlier 2nd rounders should afford us some additional nice picks. The question is just who or why someone one else would want to do that with us. We can only hope some other team is in love with a player that the Patriots are not at a position to allow us to do something like  that.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    SD would be a possible partner.  They are in love with Mathews.  If he's still there at 22, we trade down to their 28 and their 3rd, (92).  At 28, we could land Pouncey who I think is the best OL in the draft.  With that 92 pick we could get Jimmy Graham or perhaps Ben Tate.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In talking to my brother over the weekend, who runs a draft site, he tells me his sources close to the Patriots tell him that the Pats are very interested in Ricky Sapp.  I asked in what round and he says at pick 22.  I was shocked.  He was shocked too.  That 5 hour work out apparently was no smoke screen.  They wanted to test that repaired knee.  

    I was reminded that Sapp's knee was only 60% last year.  Last year Sapp converted from DE to OLB.  He wasn't as stout against the run as he should be because of the knee.  He wasn't able to push off and drive relying on his upper body strength and weight to tackle.  Sapp has the right size, speed and experience at the position.  What we don't know is how the work out went.  I'm told it went well and that other teams are looking at him too as a first rounder and that we should see him moving up boards once word is out that his knee is 100%. 

    Ricky Sapp, Clemson, 6-4, 252, 2: Moved from defensive end to standup linebacker last year, he responded with career highs in tackles (60), tackles for loss (15) and sacks (five) to go with a forced fumble. Those numbers became even more impressive when he revealed at the combine that he played the season on a right knee that was at 60% strength, stemming from a torn anterior cruciate ligament in November 2008. Sapp had surgery to repair the injury. Whether Sapp plays outside linebacker in a 3-4 or defensive end in a 4-3, his promise is as a pass rusher. A high school track sprinter and basketball star, Sapp has an overall athleticism that is more striking than his football ability. If he learns to harness all his talent, he can become an elite pass rusher in the NFL. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange 
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Faucet, I m hoping we make 2 moves.  One, move back and grab Pouncey like u said.  But then use our 4th rd pick with our #44 and move up a little and get Sapp.  That is purely based on if the team loves Sapp.  I like him in the 2nd, but not the 1st rd.  I am still prefering a few others out there.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6


    Sapp at 22?...I don't know..this seems a bit of stretch to say the least. He certainly looks better standing up than with his hand on the ground, but I don't think he warrants a 22nd pick, especially not in this draft. Like Mordecai says, I would probably spend a 2nd on him, but that is about it. 
    I'm getting the feeling the Pats trade out of the 22nd spot, move down to late 1st or back into the 2nd early, and do something there. 

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Faucet, I m hoping we make 2 moves.  One, move back and grab Pouncey like u said.  But then use our 4th rd pick with our #44 and move up a little and get Sapp.  That is purely based on if the team loves Sapp.  I like him in the 2nd, but not the 1st rd.  I am still prefering a few others out there.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon


    Interestingly enough, I have Sapp ranked at 45 as of the last time I updated my board.  56, 50, 41, 40 ranks on 4 boards.  These are pretty tight spreads.  As of now, we'd have to spend #44 on him.  However if he impresses at other work outs and that knee checks out I would not be shocked if he moves up and into the first round.  There aren't many OLBs that actually have played the position who are 6-4, 252 and run a 4.65.  We'll have to watch Sapp with interest now based on the apparent interest the Pats have.

    Your idea 4th + 44 to move up get us to 38.  In my last mock I had Sapp going to Oakland at 39.  We have STL at 33, TB at 35, KC at 36 and OAK at 39 all needing OLBs.  This means we might have to do that SD trade and take Sapp at 28.  Ouch.

    I don't like drafting players with repaired ACLs.  What is the medical prognosis on ACL repairs?  Are they more at risk in the future?  This worries me.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Sapp at 22?...I don't know..this seems a bit of stretch to say the least. He certainly looks better standing up than with his hand on the ground, but I don't think he warrants a 22nd pick, especially not in this draft. Like Mordecai says, I would probably spend a 2nd on him, but that is about it.  I'm getting the feeling the Pats trade out of the 22nd spot, move down to late 1st or back into the 2nd early, and do something there. 
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I'm with you and mord on this but we can't ignore a 5 hour work out as a sign of immense interest.  We can't ignore that rush OLB is our biggest need.  We can't ignore that a guy who is 6-4, 252 and runs a 4.65 and has played the position in college and therefore is not a conversion guy.  Sapps production was still impressive with career highs in tackles (60), tackles for loss (15) and sacks (five) to go with a forced fumble on a 60% knee.  At 100%, how good would he be?

    For the sake of discussion, and I'm not ready to say I've jumped on the Sapp bandwagon just yet, let's say Sapp is the pick at #22 and he's the real deal.  What does this do for our draft?

    #22 OLB Ricky Sapp
    #44 TE Jermaine Gresham
    #48 DT Tyson Alualu
    #53 RB Toby Gerhart
    4th  WR Andre Roberts

    I could be happy with this...
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In talking to my brother over the weekend, who runs a draft site, he tells me his sources close to the Patriots tell him that the Pats are very interested in Ricky Sapp.  I asked in what round and he says at pick 22.  I was shocked.  He was shocked too.  That 5 hour work out apparently was no smoke screen.  They wanted to test that repaired knee.   I was reminded that Sapp's knee was only 60% last year.  Last year Sapp converted from DE to OLB.  He wasn't as stout against the run as he should be because of the knee.  He wasn't able to push off and drive relying on his upper body strength and weight to tackle.  Sapp has the right size, speed and experience at the position.  What we don't know is how the work out went.  I'm told it went well and that other teams are looking at him too as a first rounder and that we should see him moving up boards once word is out that his knee is 100%.  Ricky Sapp, Clemson, 6-4, 252, 2: Moved from defensive end to standup linebacker last year, he responded with career highs in tackles (60), tackles for loss (15) and sacks (five) to go with a forced fumble. Those numbers became even more impressive when he revealed at the combine that he played the season on a right knee that was at 60% strength, stemming from a torn anterior cruciate ligament in November 2008. Sapp had surgery to repair the injury. Whether Sapp plays outside linebacker in a 3-4 or defensive end in a 4-3, his promise is as a pass rusher. A high school track sprinter and basketball star, Sapp has an overall athleticism that is more striking than his football ability. If he learns to harness all his talent, he can become an elite pass rusher in the NFL. - Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange  
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,
    Thanks for the info.  Call me skeptical, but I'd temper my expectations on any draft info that comes from a source close to the Patriots.  If asked, they'd probably be very interested in about 20 guys at pick 22.  They control what type of info gets out and what doesnt.

    With that said, it certainly warrants discussion of Sapp as a viable candidate in the first couple rounds based on measurables and athleticism though injury aside, I'm not sure his overall production (7 sacks combined as a soph/jr pre-injury) warrants a 1st round pick.  Just my opinion, but both Sapp and Kindle wreak of bust to me.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    #22 OLB Ricky Sapp #44 TE Jermaine Gresham #48 DT Tyson Alualu #53 RB Toby Gerhart 4th  WR Andre Roberts I could be happy with this...
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure I am a Sapp fan but I would be very happy with that 2nd round.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Realistically, if Sapp didnt have the ACL issue, we all might want him at 22, but that always scares me.  As far as the 5 hour workout being important, we also worked out Gholston the year the yets took him, maybe not for 5 hours, but we had him in.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Faucet: Good point about VW not being happy about his contract if he is playing End. Thought I had heard he did pretty well at End last year.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Interestingly enough, I have Sapp ranked at 45 as of the last time I updated my board.  56, 50, 41, 40 ranks on 4 boards.  These are pretty tight spreads.  As of now, we'd have to spend #44 on him.  However if he impresses at other work outs and that knee checks out I would not be shocked if he moves up and into the first round.  There aren't many OLBs that actually have played the position who are 6-4, 252 and run a 4.65.  We'll have to watch Sapp with interest now based on the apparent interest the Pats have. Your idea 4th + 44 to move up get us to 38.  In my last mock I had Sapp going to Oakland at 39.  We have STL at 33, TB at 35, KC at 36 and OAK at 39 all needing OLBs.  This means we might have to do that SD trade and take Sapp at 28.  Ouch. I don't like drafting players with repaired ACLs.  What is the medical prognosis on ACL repairs?  Are they more at risk in the future?  This worries me.
    Posted by Faucetman


    ACL's in kids/young men typically respond really very well. I speak from a lot of personal experience and research regarding knee injuries. I would have more issues with players having meniscus problems long term then ACL work depending on what was done.

    I do not have stats to back it only personal experience. I would be very surprised to learn however that a replaced ACL has a significantly greater chance of blowing out any easier than the normal ACL given all other aspect of the knee health being equal.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    New Mock:
    Pats trade #22 to the Chargers for #28 and #91.  Chargers select Ryan Mathews/Jahvid Best.  Pats Draft:

    #28 Jerry Hughes-DE/OLB-TCU
    #44 Tyson Alualu-DE-California
    #48 Damian Williams-WR-USC
    #53 Toby Gerhart-Stanford
    #91 Dennis Pitta-TE-BYU
    #117 Brandon Spikes-ILB-Florida
    Rd 6 Daniel Te'o Neshiem
    Rd 7 Zoltan Mesko-P-Michigan
    Rd 7 Sean Canfield-QB-Oregon State

    Please Comment
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Faucet, Thanks for the info.  Call me skeptical, but I'd temper my expectations on any draft info that comes from a source close to the Patriots.  If asked, they'd probably be very interested in about 20 guys at pick 22.  They control what type of info gets out and what doesnt. With that said, it certainly warrants discussion of Sapp as a viable candidate in the first couple rounds based on measurables and athleticism though injury aside, I'm not sure his overall production (7 sacks combined as a soph/jr pre-injury) warrants a 1st round pick.  Just my opinion, but both Sapp and Kindle wreak of bust to me.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I agree.  I'm not putting much stock in the source but Sapp did work out for 5 hours.  That's a long time to check out a knee.  Do we know anything more about the workout?  Do we have any feedback from team officials?  What was Sapp's Wonderlick score?  Trust me, I'm as skeptical as the rest of you.  But we weren't at the work out and we don't know how he looked.

    As a sophomore Sapp was a DE.  Comparisons to DeMarcus Ware might be a bit bold. 

    The rangy and explosive Sapp has flashed playmaking ability since backing up former the late Gaines Adams. He appeared poised for a breakout season in 2008, tying his career high with 10 tackles for loss at defensive end, before partially tearing the ACL in his right knee. Sapp's 10 tackles for loss in 2008 came in just 347 snaps, as opposed to the 620 at the same position in 2007.

    Though he had 16 career sacks, Sapp's explosive first step makes him one of the more intriguing pass rushers of the 2010 draft. He'll struggle to add the weight necessary to remain at defensive end in the 4-3 scheme and isn't experienced enough for most teams running this alignment to project him to linebacker. He's best suited to be a rush linebacker in the 3-4 scheme.


    Read & React: Appears to have the instincts to handle the transition to linebacker. Has been asked to primarily rush the passer as a defensive end, but quickly locates the ball and has the agility and acceleration to change direction. Hustles downfield in pursuit.

    Run defense:Lacks the bulk necessary to stack and shed as a defensive end. Can get bulled over in the running game and relies on his lateral agility and swim move to get past blocks, but too often takes himself out of the play. To his credit, Sapp hustles downfield and makes many of his plays in pursuit, showing the straight-line speed and agility necessary to move to linebacker.

    Pass defense: Intriguing potential, despite his limited experience in coverage. Has a rare combination of straight-line speed and agility for his size. Drops into coverage as a zone defender from his defensive end position and shows good balance and the agility to re-direct in space. Good straight-line speed.

    Tackling:Effective drag-down tackler from behind. Wraps up securely when taking on ballcarriers laterally or head-on. Flashes explosiveness as a hitter, but too often is a catch tackler. Needs to add strength, especially in his upper body.

    Pass Rush/Blitz:Natural pass rusher. Experienced standing up and with his hand on the ground. Explosive burst and good flexibility to get under the tackle's reach and around the edge. Active hands and a good swim move to get past the initial blocker. Lacks strength to bull rush NFL offensive tackles. Relies on his agility to get past the blocker. Struggles to disengage once tied up.

    Intangibles: Better athlete than football player. Will require an extensive Combine medical check after multiple injuries while at Clemson, including a partially torn ACL in his right knee in 2008. Top prep prospect who signed with Clemson over Oklahoma, Florida State and Georgia. Three-year South Carolina regional champion in the 100 meter (10.76), 200 meter (21.0), and 4x100 meter relay in high school.

    Positives: Lanky build with plenty of room for additional muscle mass, especially in his upper body.

    Negatives: Often generates pressure off the edge, but only has 12.5 sacks in 33 games. Lacks strength at the point of attack. Lacks the bulk to stack and shed blocks when properly engaged.

    NFL Comparison: DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Faucet: Good point about VW not being happy about his contract if he is playing End. Thought I had heard he did pretty well at End last year.
    Posted by max5344


    That wasn't my point.  I don't think VW would be concerned about playing DE for the same money as the issue.  VW is a nose tackle, plain and simple.  He lacks the speed and stamina to play 34 DE.  I could see VW and Brace lining up together in 43 sets with Warren on one end and a pass rusher on the other.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I agree.  I'm not putting much stock in the source but Sapp did work out for 5 hours.  That's a long time to check out a knee.  Do we know anything more about the workout?  Do we have any feedback from team officials?  What was Sapp's Wonderlick score?  Trust me, I'm as skeptical as the rest of you.  But we weren't at the work out and we don't know how he looked. As a sophomore Sapp was a DE.  Comparisons to DeMarcus Ware might be a bit bold.  The rangy and explosive Sapp has flashed playmaking ability since backing up former the late Gaines Adams. He appeared poised for a breakout season in 2008, tying his career high with 10 tackles for loss at defensive end, before partially tearing the ACL in his right knee. Sapp's 10 tackles for loss in 2008 came in just 347 snaps, as opposed to the 620 at the same position in 2007. Though he had 16 career sacks, Sapp's explosive first step makes him one of the more intriguing pass rushers of the 2010 draft. He'll struggle to add the weight necessary to remain at defensive end in the 4-3 scheme and isn't experienced enough for most teams running this alignment to project him to linebacker. He's best suited to be a rush linebacker in the 3-4 scheme. Read & React: Appears to have the instincts to handle the transition to linebacker. Has been asked to primarily rush the passer as a defensive end, but quickly locates the ball and has the agility and acceleration to change direction. Hustles downfield in pursuit. Run defense: Lacks the bulk necessary to stack and shed as a defensive end. Can get bulled over in the running game and relies on his lateral agility and swim move to get past blocks, but too often takes himself out of the play. To his credit, Sapp hustles downfield and makes many of his plays in pursuit, showing the straight-line speed and agility necessary to move to linebacker. Pass defense: Intriguing potential, despite his limited experience in coverage. Has a rare combination of straight-line speed and agility for his size. Drops into coverage as a zone defender from his defensive end position and shows good balance and the agility to re-direct in space. Good straight-line speed. Tackling: Effective drag-down tackler from behind. Wraps up securely when taking on ballcarriers laterally or head-on. Flashes explosiveness as a hitter, but too often is a catch tackler. Needs to add strength, especially in his upper body. Pass Rush/Blitz: Natural pass rusher. Experienced standing up and with his hand on the ground. Explosive burst and good flexibility to get under the tackle's reach and around the edge. Active hands and a good swim move to get past the initial blocker. Lacks strength to bull rush NFL offensive tackles. Relies on his agility to get past the blocker. Struggles to disengage once tied up. Intangibles: Better athlete than football player. Will require an extensive Combine medical check after multiple injuries while at Clemson, including a partially torn ACL in his right knee in 2008. Top prep prospect who signed with Clemson over Oklahoma, Florida State and Georgia. Three-year South Carolina regional champion in the 100 meter (10.76), 200 meter (21.0), and 4x100 meter relay in high school. Positives: Lanky build with plenty of room for additional muscle mass, especially in his upper body. Negatives: Often generates pressure off the edge, but only has 12.5 sacks in 33 games. Lacks strength at the point of attack. Lacks the bulk to stack and shed blocks when properly engaged. NFL Comparison: DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys
    Posted by Faucetman


    If he worked out well and seeing what most project to be a kid who probably has his best football ahead of him I think we take a chance but at 22??!  I don't know if I'm ready to say that is a wise move.  He is projecting as a rushing OLB so I don't think he'll be there as a 3 down LB, can you use the 22nd pick on a guy who will not have as many snaps as a OL or other skill position?

    I still have a feeling this is one heck of a smoke screen, no way the Pats can change that much in a year can they?  Will they risk that much at 22?

    This one has me a bit confused as I'm sure as most of you are.  I don't know boys we might see a whole new approach to a draft this year. 
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Been looking at some mocks, most have sapp going around pick #50 with the first one to the pats at 53.  If the pats show this much real interest I think other 34 teams might make a move and get him lower, very unlike the Pats to work out a kid for 5 hours and for it to come out although I know the comments came from Sapp himself.

    http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2009/12/2010-nfl-mock-draft-round-2.html

    This one has him in the third round to green bay but posting it because it is interesting who falls into NE's lap at 22 and 44.

    http://www.sidelinescouting.net/mock/round3/
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    I would still vote for Graham at 22. His motor is one of the best in a long time. He lacks the size, but he could be a huge factor in pass rush.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Im going with MB IF, the Pats can do this, Golden Tate, we need fresh blood at Wide-out, also from what I've been reading the Jets are targeting him. Pitta I really like. Doesn't BYU have their workout today?
    Posted by bobbysu


    Bobby,
    Here's a link to a review of Pitta and the BYU pro-day.  I too like him as an option, has tested out well and was also productive.  The biggest negative may be his age as I believe he's already 24 or 25 having gone on a mormon mission for two years.

    I love this kid as a prospect.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Bobby, Here's a link to a review of Pitta and the BYU pro-day.  I too like him as an option, has tested out well and was also productive.  The biggest negative may be his age as I believe he's already 24 or 25 having gone on a mormon mission for two years. I love this kid as a prospect.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    I actually think his age will be a plus in the eyes of the Patriots.  Also, you forgot to paste the link.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    From a maturity stand point, you could be right.

    Link below:

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/BYU-tight-end-Dennis-Pitta-has-strong-Pro-Day.html
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Been looking at some mocks, most have sapp going around pick #50 with the first one to the pats at 53.  If the pats show this much real interest I think other 34 teams might make a move and get him lower, very unlike the Pats to work out a kid for 5 hours and for it to come out although I know the comments came from Sapp himself. http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2009/12/2010-nfl-mock-draft-round-2.html This one has him in the third round to green bay but posting it because it is interesting who falls into NE's lap at 22 and 44. http://www.sidelinescouting.net/mock/round3/
    Posted by Pats7393

    This Sapp thing is a new thing.  I wouldn't expect to see much movement in his stock yet.  As more and more teams start working him out and meeting with him, word will leak as to whether or not he's 100% and if teams are interested.  Once that happens we should expect to see movement on him. 

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    From a maturity stand point, you could be right. Link below: http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/BYU-tight-end-Dennis-Pitta-has-strong-Pro-Day.html
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Per the link...

    Per the report, the Seattle Seahawks, Cleveland Browns, Cincinnati Bengals, Baltimore Ravens and the St. Louis Rams sent scouts to the workout

    I find it odd that the Pats wouldn't have attended if they were interested.  They met with him at the Combine or after if memory serves.  Perhaps they would be interested in the 4th but now see he has moved up from there.  Or, they were satisfied with him and didn't need to see more.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Impressed with scouting process. Kraft said that he’s been impressed with the organization in terms of draft preparation, which is a strong reflection on Bill Belichick, Director of Player Personnel Nick Caserio, Director of College Scouting Jon Robinson and Co. “One of the things I think our guys have done is understand who is going to be there in the middle rounds,” he said. “They’ve put a lot of time and energy in understanding [that]. The only way you can do intelligent trades is to understand the product.”

    Think the Pats will make some moves draft day?  I think this year they try to make up for 2007 and 2008 drafts and get solid players who will make the team.  With all the 7th round comp picks I can see them try to put together some of their others to get some key players.  I have been looking over the last few days at 6th and 7th round guys and I can honestly say there are some guys who can add value to the team.  Even in UFAs there are some guys who can do key things in the team.  Look for them to address a return man or two.
     

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