2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    April is crazy...

    Scout has harsh words for “the fat kid from UCLA” Brian Price | NFL Mocks | Covering the 2010 NFL Draft & Your #1 NFL Mock Draft Database http://bit.ly/cDLx8b

    Between the Odrick to Cleveland rumor. The Patriots trade to 8 rumor. Tebow stories. Etc etc.

    Let the mind games commence...
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Hi, Faucetman: I think Jerry Hughes is the equal to Brandon Graham.  If Graham is gone, Hughes should be a solid option. 
    Posted by TrustBill[/QUOTE]

    Yes, Hughes is an option.  I just can't get myself to think he's worth #22.  If we go a different direction at 22 and Hughes is there at #44, I'd be sold on him there.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/4/7/1408381/why-the-new-england-patriots?ref=CBS

    Makes some points I've been saying some similar players compared to those available at 22.  Although I don't agree with some of the players he mentions but for the most part I think has a valid point.  I pick his scenario with the bills, about 5 scenarios to trade out of 22 into more picks.

    Scenario 4: Buffalo Bills #41, #73, #140, 2011 Third Round Pick: Point Value = 751 + 70 (est) =  821

    The Bills are a division rival, but that hasn't stopped us from trading with them before (Hi Bledsoe!). They have many needs, due to their lack of starting QB, their lack of personnel for their new 3-4 defense and lack of receivers for said (lack of) QB. While it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills kept all their picks (because they need them all to improve), if they select the top OT at #9 overall and Jimmy Clausen falls to #22 (and it seems highly likely), maybe the Bills would make a move to grab him. On the other hand, if they choose Clausen at #9, and a tackle like Trent Williams or Charles Brown is still available, maybe they'll move up to pick them.


     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Well watch some clips on Graham and you'll be impressed. He definitely fills a need area so I don't think it's out of the realm for them to trade up a few picks to nab him. Players do drop (like Wilfork) so I think he should be on every Pats fans radar. How can you judge a player without watching film on them? It's kind of like reviewing a restaurant without even eating there.

    Belichick always does the unexpected so you never know when he'll surprise everyone by trading up instead of down. 


    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : If that is true then I don't like Graham as much as everyone else. I have not watched film yet on graham cause i am not expecting him to be there. I have seen plenty of highlight film on Hughes and a couple of full games. He's everything people say he is with regards to his first step and to a lesser extent his pass rushing ability in general. imo however I have a few concerns. 1) major concern about his ability to hold up at the point of attack. One on one he's so-so. A second blocker gets into him and he goes flying backwards. This is consistently the case everytime I see him play. The OLB is responsible for setting the edge in the 3-4 and forcing everything back inside and at worst for stringing the play out to the sideline. To me Hughes never did this consistently in college and it will be even less likely he can do it at the same level or better in the pros. 2) 90% of all his pass rush highlights he wins on pure speed by taking a wide arcing approach that takes him way out past the QB and then comes back at the QB from behind. First I am not sure he gets away with that in the pros as often as he did in college. 2nd if he takes such a wide angle in the pros consistently I think you could really take advantage of him if you have mobile QB or draws etc. I prefer the 10% where he starts with the wide arc and switches half way to bull rush using the tackles momentum against himself and does not give up pocket containment. The guy is really quick and is also relentless. He made a number of plays on film from the backside but no one bothered to even chip him. He has good motor and will chase plays down all over but it really bothers me how he can get completely blown up at the point of attack. My concerns do not mean I would not take him. I just am not keen on him as a 1st round pick because I don't think he'd be 7 rounds better of a player than TBC is in this Patriots system. There are about a half dozen other mighty mites with the same measurables and speed as Hughes that they could get later as well. I have not had a chance to check out everyones film so I do not know how I would compare them but I am interested to to that. Just my opinion.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    DE possibility in the 4th-6th

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Source-Al-Woods-on-the-rise.html
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6


    I'm not sold on Graham or Hughes at 22. I like Graham for all the reasons listed on this post...can rush, set the edge, etc...but I am not convinced he can play standing up or has the ability we seek in a 3-4 OLB to drop back into coverage if necessary. 
    To me, Graham seems like a great 4-3 DE, similar in stature/ability to Dumervil. Of course, I would like to have that pass rushing ability on the roster, if Graham is not a 3 down OLB, is he worth the 22nd pick?...Perhaps if some have suggested we run more nickel or 4-3 type schemes. This pick then to me makes more sense. With the 22nd, I want a 3 down, impact player, not a situational guy as I believe we have too many of those on the roster today.

    I have similar feelings about Hughes. I don't think he will be as stout agaisnt the run as Graham, has 1 move to the QB, but perhaps better dropping back into coverage than Graham (assumption). To me, neither is "complete" or what we expect out of that position in a 3-4. Again, if we change our defensive alignment, I could see either of these picks, but I would think we run nickel/4-3 at least 70% of the time to afford a 22nd pick on either of these guys. just my opinion of course.







     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Patriots Worked Out Antonio Coleman http://bit.ly/cFyDs5
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    This week's mock, based on some projections on who will be available at 22 and who won't.  Finding room for some of my favorites and some won't make it, I'm also thinking back to a report (sorry don't have the site) which I read where the Pats other than LM pick backs in late rounds so will be basing my mock on that point.  Although I wish they take Tate or Gerhart I'm not longer convinced they spend a 2nd on a RB.  Let me know what you all think.

    #22 Everson Griffen OLB 6'4" 273
    4.65 40, he matches everything BB looks for in his OLBs, good against the run and relentless pass rusher but it is raw in pass coverage which he will need to work on.
    #44 Tyson Alualu DE 6'3" 295
    Height might not be perfect but he is an immediate upgrade to the RDE spot
    #47 Dominique Franks CB 5'11" 194
    Although Bodden was signed and Butler reporterly is making progress they don't have anyone behind them unless you are convinced this is the year for the Ws I'm not.  Franks has the cover skills to be a #2 and eventually develop into a #1.
    #53 Jared Veldheer OT 6'8" 312
    I'm on board on this kid, I believe Light gets traded on draft day.  Katzur is not the answer at RT.  Only question is how soon will Veldheer be ready to start.
    #119 Daniel Te'O Nesheim OLB/DE 6'4" 263
    Another conversion guy who has what BB looks for in an OLB.  Already had a private workout with the Pats.  I like Griffen on the W side and Te on the strong side, maybe not day 1 but eventually.
    #191 Marcus Easly WR 6'3" 210
    Fast receiver great hands, needs to develop into a route runner.  Has it all to replace Moss in 2011.
    #206 (comp) Alfonso Smith RB 6'1" 211
    Great hands can catch out of the back field, can return kicks.  Has speed and size to run inside or take it outside.  great option on screens.
    #230 Scott Sicko TE 6'4" 251
    Good speed size and hands, is a good blocker and blue collar kid.  Perfect candidate to be mentored by Alge.
    #232 David Gettis WR 6'3" 217
    Great hands size and speed combination doesn't mind running across the middle. 
    #248 (comp) Deji Karim RB/PR 5'09" 210
    Will benefit from KF. 
    #249 (comp) Kade Weston DE/DT 6'5" 325
    Big man with speed, ran 4.97 at 325, played in the SEC for Georgia.  Not saying he's the answer at RE but if he can develop sure has the size to take that spot.
    #251 (comp) Mike Johnson LB 6'2 248
    All around player, could be a great special teams guy and add depth at MLB.  Effort won't be questioned.

    No punter although they might draft one or see who's available after the draft.  There's a few guys I like as UDFA but won't include the list of about 10.


     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : If that is true then I don't like Graham as much as everyone else. I have not watched film yet on graham cause i am not expecting him to be there. I have seen plenty of highlight film on Hughes and a couple of full games. He's everything people say he is with regards to his first step and to a lesser extent his pass rushing ability in general. imo however I have a few concerns. 1) major concern about his ability to hold up at the point of attack. One on one he's so-so. A second blocker gets into him and he goes flying backwards. This is consistently the case everytime I see him play. The OLB is responsible for setting the edge in the 3-4 and forcing everything back inside and at worst for stringing the play out to the sideline. To me Hughes never did this consistently in college and it will be even less likely he can do it at the same level or better in the pros. 2) 90% of all his pass rush highlights he wins on pure speed by taking a wide arcing approach that takes him way out past the QB and then comes back at the QB from behind. First I am not sure he gets away with that in the pros as often as he did in college. 2nd if he takes such a wide angle in the pros consistently I think you could really take advantage of him if you have mobile QB or draws etc. I prefer the 10% where he starts with the wide arc and switches half way to bull rush using the tackles momentum against himself and does not give up pocket containment. The guy is really quick and is also relentless. He made a number of plays on film from the backside but no one bothered to even chip him. He has good motor and will chase plays down all over but it really bothers me how he can get completely blown up at the point of attack. My concerns do not mean I would not take him. I just am not keen on him as a 1st round pick because I don't think he'd be 7 rounds better of a player than TBC is in this Patriots system. There are about a half dozen other mighty mites with the same measurables and speed as Hughes that they could get later as well. I have not had a chance to check out everyones film so I do not know how I would compare them but I am interested to to that. Just my opinion.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    IQ, you should watch some tape of Graham.  I agree he should be gone before 22 but if we moved up to 17, he'd be there.  I confess that other than the Senior Bowl I didn't watch him play because I didn't see any Michigan games last year but I watched the SB and he was an absolute beast - clearly the best player on the field and well deserving of the MVP honors for that game.

    I think the first landing spot for him is PIT at 18.  I think PIT will either pick Graham, Iupati or Pouncey.  PIT really needs OL help including C/OG and OT and since their defense is pretty good I have to feel they are leaning towards one of these guys or a slipping OT (Davis perhaps).  This could drop Graham to ATL at 19 but they have bigger needs at WR, DT, CB and OG.  I could see them going with Wilson there.  I think HOU is all over Ryan Mathews and they don't need a DE so this gets Graham to 21 and CIN.  CIN has a big need at DE.  So, we may only have to jump up 2 spots or roll the dice that CIN takes Gresham, another big need for them.

    In any event, you should look at Graham because I think there is a chance he makes it to us or we move up to get him if BB likes him and he's still there at 17 or 20.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Well watch some clips on Graham and you'll be impressed. He definitely fills a need area so I don't think it's out of the realm for them to trade up a few picks to nab him. Players do drop (like Wilfork) so I think he should be on every Pats fans radar. How can you judge a player without watching film on them? It's kind of like reviewing a restaurant without even eating there. Belichick always does the unexpected so you never know when he'll surprise everyone by trading up instead of down.  In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 :
    Posted by Rockdog1293000



    Rock is that statement directed at me?

    I don't believe I have ever done that. I gave a detailed opinion on Hughes because I watched his film highlights and a few games of his.

    There have been times I have posted on here with regards to a player but if it is based on what I have read ONLY I will add that fact in my post.

    When I made the statement about Graham what I said in response to the gentleman who said Graham and Hughes was the same was "IF that is true". Meaning IF that post IS accurate and they ARE the same then I would not be as high on Graham based on my evaluation of Hughes.

    I was only responding to his post and not giving an opinion on Graham as I do not have one since I have not watched him. I have not watched many guys that are expected to be off the board before us. Instead focusing on the ones most likely to be available and later round guys as well.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : IQ, you should watch some tape of Graham.  I agree he should be gone before 22 but if we moved up to 17, he'd be there.  I confess that other than the Senior Bowl I didn't watch him play because I didn't see any Michigan games last year but I watched the SB and he was an absolute beast - clearly the best player on the field and well deserving of the MVP honors for that game. I think the first landing spot for him is PIT at 18.  I think PIT will either pick Graham, Iupati or Pouncey.  PIT really needs OL help including C/OG and OT and since their defense is pretty good I have to feel they are leaning towards one of these guys are a slipping OT (Davis perhaps).  This could drop Graham to ATL at 19 but they have bigger needs at WR, DT, CB and OG.  I could see them going with Wilson there.  I think HOU is all over Ryan Mathews and they don't need a DE so this gets Graham to 21 and CIN.  CIN has a big need at DE.  So, we may only have to jump up 2 spots or roll the dice that CIN takes Gresham, another big need for them. In any event, you should look at Graham because I think there is a chance he makes it to us or we move up to get him if BB likes him and he's still there at 17 or 20.
    Posted by Faucetman


    I don't think Pit can pass up Pouncey, that is probably their biggest need right now (maybe QB ???) don't look pass Atl.  They will take LB the only question is whether it is Graham or Weatherspoon, IMO Graham will provide better value and upside although We... is a special player. I think if you have to jump for Graham you have to ask Pit or seattle, i don't know what it will take but I'm sure they'll ask for a 2nd which I wouldn't give. 
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Yes I want him as a vertical threat.  What, you don't think replacing Moss is important?  Are you really telling me Williams with his 4.52 speed is going to stretch the field?  He's a possession receiver, and there is nothing wrong with that, but he is not vertical threat.  I'd rather get a possession WR at #119 like a Roberts or Shipley.  Don't under estimate the importance of what Moss does commanding double teams, pulling over safety help opening up the middle and gets you that home run almost once a game.  If Thomas is there at #44 you bet I'd take him.  Coaching doesn't stop once you enter the pros; that's where it begins.  You can't coach being 6-3, 224, with 4.38 speed.  You CAN coach route running. Williams won't out run anyone with 4.52 speed.  Heck Guyton is faster than him.  Edelman is faster than him and every CB and S on our roster is faster than Williams.  In fact if we drafted Williams, he'd be our slowest WR.  I'm not knocking the player but he isn't better than Thomas and his ceiling is far lower.
    Posted by Faucetman

    u cant coach it but you can have him train on a track team, have him do what myron rolle from FSU is doing, and he is alot faster in game.. okay ya 4.38 speed is great but its hard to learn route running after not doing it for soo many years
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Thomas vs Williams, hmm well I think you are right but only as an immediate impact guy as far as long term upside Thomas hands down is the better prospect.  Williams is a kid who can come in (or at least I think he can) and be a solid WR his rookie year where Thomas will need a year or two get to a #1 or #2 starting WR.  Williams I don't think will be a #1 but Thomas once learns how to run routes has it all to be a #1.  Although I had mocked Thomas at 22 I think if the team picks Roberts in the 2nd and Easley in the 6th those two will provide depth at WR and one will become a #2 option for the Pats.  Both Roberts and Easley also can help out in return duties.
    Posted by Pats7393

    and to be a contender this year we need imediate impact players and not some1 we have to develop, so far this Thomas kid is a high prospect project, im not saying hes bad, im just saying theres alot to improve on
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I don't think Pit can pass up Pouncey, that is probably their biggest need right now (maybe QB ???) don't look pass Atl.  They will take LB the only question is whether it is Graham or Weatherspoon, IMO Graham will provide better value and upside although We... is a special player. I think if you have to jump for Graham you have to ask Pit or seattle, i don't know what it will take but I'm sure they'll ask for a 2nd which I wouldn't give. 
    Posted by Pats7393


    If Graham makes it to #20, a 4th and maybe a 7th gets us there but I'd be inclined to roll the dice.  Our 4th is where I think we should target a WR.  I like Roberts, Cooper, White, Shipley or even Webb there at #119.  I think we need a possession type receiver that can work the other sideline.  He would be man-to-man most of the time and needs to be tough, a good route runner and able to fight for the ball.  I don't see us taking a WR before the 4th.  As I said in earlier posts, the value for WR is the 3-4th rounds.

    I've been reading a lot of articles that suggest we will focus on the trenches and getting players that are stout against the run.  Other than Wilfork, we don't have elite run stoppers in our front 7.  Mayo was off least year likely (hopefully) because of the knee injury but too many times backs would break through the DL and get past the 2nd level.  Meriweather made far too many tackles of RBs last year.  That shouldn't happen.  It is obvious that we must improve our pass rush too.  This makes me think we have to be targeting Kindle or Graham.  Both can get after the QB and are good at setting the edge against the run.  I would not rule out us taking a ILB type somewhere too that is big and physical.  If Spikes was a bit faster, he would have been perfect for us in the 2nd.


     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : IQ, you should watch some tape of Graham.  I agree he should be gone before 22 but if we moved up to 17, he'd be there.  I confess that other than the Senior Bowl I didn't watch him play because I didn't see any Michigan games last year but I watched the SB and he was an absolute beast - clearly the best player on the field and well deserving of the MVP honors for that game. I think the first landing spot for him is PIT at 18.  I think PIT will either pick Graham, Iupati or Pouncey.  PIT really needs OL help including C/OG and OT and since their defense is pretty good I have to feel they are leaning towards one of these guys are a slipping OT (Davis perhaps).  This could drop Graham to ATL at 19 but they have bigger needs at WR, DT, CB and OG.  I could see them going with Wilson there.  I think HOU is all over Ryan Mathews and they don't need a DE so this gets Graham to 21 and CIN.  CIN has a big need at DE.  So, we may only have to jump up 2 spots or roll the dice that CIN takes Gresham, another big need for them. In any event, you should look at Graham because I think there is a chance he makes it to us or we move up to get him if BB likes him and he's still there at 17 or 20.
    Posted by Faucetman

    Faucet I will try and find some time and look at some Michigan highlights.

    I have watched Senior bowl highlights but not specifically for watching Graham although you do pick up on many different players watching a game like that.

    I really do not wish to form any sort of opinion for Graham specifically from that game(senior bowl) because he was lined up over either Ciron Black OR Selvish Capers form most of the highlights I saw. 

    While I give Graham all the credit in the world as he did what he is supposed to, beat up on weaker quality opponents I still want to try and find some clips of him going against some top rated OT's.

    That's why mbeau and I always say I wish it wasn't a "senior" bowl but a top draft prospects bowl instead. It's bad enough not have the juniors there but then you have a number of seniors who opt not to participate as well.

    Not positive but I believe 4 or the 1st 5 OT's expected to be off the board in the draft were NOT at the senior bowl. Feel free to correct that as I am not positive.

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : u cant coach it but you can have him train on a track team, have him do what myron rolle from FSU is doing, and he is alot faster in game.. okay ya 4.38 speed is great but its hard to learn route running after not doing it for soo many years
    Posted by TateGroup


    The point is moot anyway Tate.  We are certainly not going to take a WR in the first round, we never have in the BB era and Thomas does not last until #44 anyway.  I've been saying the value at WR is the 3-4th round and I think we use our pick at #119 to add a WR.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : The point is moot anyway Tate.  We are certainly not going to take a WR in the first round, we never have in the BB era and Thomas does not last until #44 anyway.  I've been saying the value at WR is the 3-4th round and I think we use our pick at #119 to add a WR.
    Posted by Faucetman

    i know were not unless Dez Bryant is still there, then BB will have to swallow his pride and take the best available player, if we get jordan shipley at #119 thatd be great, i still love this Damian kid tho
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : If Graham makes it to #20, a 4th and maybe a 7th gets us there but I'd be inclined to roll the dice.  Our 4th is where I think we should target a WR.  I like Roberts, Cooper, White, Shipley or even Webb there at #119.  I think we need a possession type receiver that can work the other sideline.  He would be man-to-man most of the time and needs to be tough, a good route runner and able to fight for the ball.  I don't see us taking a WR before the 4th.  As I said in earlier posts, the value for WR is the 3-4th rounds. I've been reading a lot of articles that suggest we will focus on the trenches and getting players that are stout against the run.  Other than Wilfork, we don't have elite run stoppers in our front 7.  Mayo was off least year likely (hopefully) because of the knee injury but too many times backs would break through the DL and get past the 2nd level.  Meriweather made far too many tackles of RBs last year.  That shouldn't happen.  It is obvious that we must improve our pass rush too.  This makes me think we have to be targeting Kindle or Graham.  Both can get after the QB and are good at setting the edge against the run.  I would not rule out us taking a ILB type somewhere too that is big and physical.  If Spikes was a bit faster, he would have been perfect for us in the 2nd.
    Posted by Faucetman



    Have to disagree with you on that one Faucet. The pic is captured from profootballfocus and sorted by run stopping.


    FYI...

    Ty was 9th overall but falls to 26th when rushing the passer. I believe that is why his snap count is lower as well as he is usually replaced on passing downs with Mike Wright.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : and to be a contender this year we need imediate impact players and not some1 we have to develop, so far this Thomas kid is a high prospect project, im not saying hes bad, im just saying theres alot to improve on
    Posted by TateGroup


    Ok Tate, here's our depth chart.  There are 52 players listed here under contract.  I didn't count fringe players or PS types.  We only get 53 on the active roster and can only suit 45 for a game (plus an emergency QB).  So we get to draft one player without cutting someone.  Starting with our 2nd pick, someone has to go (eventually when rosters are trimmed).

    So, tell me who you would draft and whether or not you expect them to start (beat out the current starter) or be a back up.  Tell me who you cut.  This is a great excercise for all of us.  I've done this a couple of times now.  It is hard because you also have to make assumptions about which players will be cut/traded.  We all think Adalius Thomas will be moved.  I think Springs will be cut and possibly Morris and Taylor if we draft a big back.  However, we might not take a RB at all and do the RB by committee thing again.

    If we aren't drafting WR or RB with those first 4 picks, who will we take?  I think TE and OLB are musts.  Outside of that, it is any body's guess.

    OFFENSE 23 Players
    Slot24 Julian Edelman  PUP 29 W Welker
    WR22 Brandon Tate  
    LOT32 Matt Light28 Mark LeVoir 
    LG28 Logan Mankins24 George Bussey24 Rich Ohrnberger
    C30 Dan Koppen28 Dan Connolly 
    ROG34 Stephen Neal24 Ryan Wendell 
    RT26 S Vollmer31 Nick Kaczur 
    TE32 Alge Crumpler  
    QB33 Tom Brady24 Brian Hoyer 
    RB25 L Maroney34 Kevin Faulk34 Fred Taylor
    33 Sammy Morris 
    25 BJ Green-Ellis 
    WR33 Randy Moss36 David Patton 
        
    DEFENSE 25 Players
    DE 29 Ty Warren28 Mike Wright 
    NT28 Vince Wilfork23 Ron Brace 
    DE32 Damione Lewis24 Myron Pryor 
    OLB30 Tully Banta-Cain26 Rob Ninkovich 
    ILB24 Jerod Mayo28 Eric Alexander25 Marques Murrell
    ILB24 Gary Guyton24 T McKenzie 
    OLB33 Adalius Thomas25 Shawn Crable28 Pierre Woods
    LCB24 Darius Butler26 J Wilhite35 Shawn Springs
    RCB29 Leigh Bodden25 T Wheatley 
    SS26 B Meriweather23 Pat Chung 
    FS26 James Sanders26 B McGowan
     
    SPECIAL TEAMS 4 Players
    PK26 S Gostkowski  
    PTBD  
    H   
    LS24 Jake Ingram  
    KR24 Matthew Slater  
    PR   
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    okkayy, id take Brandon Graham, Ricky Sapp, Jerry Hughes, and the TE from oklahoma, cant remember his name
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Have to disagree with you on that one Faucet. The pic is captured from profootballfocus and sorted by run stopping. FYI... Ty was 9th overall but falls to 26th when rushing the passer. I believe that is why his snap count is lower as well as he is usually replaced on passing downs with Mike Wright.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    This from an article right here on boston.com.

    If you believe the numbers that Football Outsiders have compiled, then it's a good thing the Patriots re-signed nose tackle Vince Wilfork.The Web site is putting together divisional off-season reviews, and the good people over there have tagged linebackers -- not surprisingly -- as the team's top remaining need.But where most people around here are looking for an upgrade at the position to boost the pass-rush, the Outsiders see the run defense as a major problem too, even as the Patriots ranked a respectable 13th in that category last year. The site's got New England 26th in Adjusted Line Yards, and only one Patriot ranked among the Top 80 in run defeats.That player was Wilfork. As for the rest, Adalius Thomas was called "practically invisible" and Tully Banta-Cain's 2009 season was dismissed as "something of a fluke."I think everyone is expecting the Patriots to address the front seven in the draft. But this might shed some light on why getting run-stoppers could be as much of a priority as pass rushers. I'd argue you need to invest to get rushers -- since it is considered a premium skill -- but it's obvious there are needs across the board in the front seven.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    okkayy, id take Brandon Graham, Ricky Sapp, Jerry Hughes, and the TE from oklahoma, cant remember his name
    Posted by TateGroup


    Jermaine Gresham.  Are you saying you'd take one of these guys at #22?  Graham and Gresham may be gone but Sapp and Hughes will be there.  At #44 I'd wager only Sapp has a chance of being there.

    Who else would you take in the 2nd round?  You mentioned Damian Williams.  So, lets assume we get rid of A. Thomas and add one of these OLBs and a WR.  That gets us to 53 players.  Who else would you take in the 2nd round, and who do you cut to make room?
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Faucet I stole you player chart, here's what I have for the roster using the latest mock I posted.  There are still 3 player over the 53 man roster but can't decide who else goes to practice squad or released.
    Added pick taken
    OFFENSE 24 Players
    Slot24 Julian Edelman  PUP 29 W Welker
    WR22 Brandon TateR #232 David Gettis 
    LOTS Vollmer28 Mark LeVoir 
    LG28 Logan Mankins23 Rich Ohrnberger 
    C30 Dan Koppen28 Dan Connolly 
    ROGGeorge BusseyStephen Neal 
    RTNick KaczurR #53 Jared Veldheer 
    TE32 Alge CrumplerR #230Scott Sicko 
    QB33 Tom Brady24 Brian Hoyer 
    RB25 L Maroney34 Kevin Faulk34 Fred Taylor
    R #206 Alfonso Smith 
    25 BJ Green-Ellis 
    WR33 Randy MossR #191 Marcus Easley 
        
    DEFENSE 27 Players
    LDE 29 Ty Warren28 Mike WrightR Kade Weston
    NT28 Vince Wilfork23 Ron Brace 
    RDER #44 Tyson Alualu33 Damione Lewis25 Myron Pryor
    OLB30 Tully Banta-CainR #119 Daniel Te'Onesheim24 Marques Murrell
    ILB24 Jerod MayoR #251 Mike Johnson 
    ILB24 Gary Guyton24 T McKenzie 
    OLBR #22 Everson Griffen25 Shawn Crable28 Pierre Woods
    LCB24 Darius ButlerR  #47 Dominique Franks25 T Wheatley
    RCB29 Leigh Bodden27 J Wilhite 
    SS26 B Meriweather23 Pat Chung 
    FS26 James Sanders26 B McGowan 
     
    SPECIAL TEAMS 5 Players
    PK26 S Gostkowski  
    PTBD  
    H   
    LS24 Jake Ingram  
    KR24 Matthew SlaterR # 248 Deji Karim 
    PRR # 248 Deji Karim  
        
    Traded   
    Light   
    Released   
    AD   
    Rob Ninkovich  
    Shawn Springs  
    Sammy Morris  
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Ok Tate, here's our depth chart.  There are 52 players listed here under contract.  I didn't count fringe players or PS types.  We only get 53 on the active roster and can only suit 45 for a game (plus an emergency QB).  So we get to draft one player without cutting someone.  Starting with our 2nd pick, someone has to go (eventually when rosters are trimmed). So, tell me who you would draft and whether or not you expect them to start (beat out the current starter) or be a back up.  Tell me who you cut.  This is a great excercise for all of us.  I've done this a couple of times now.  It is hard because you also have to make assumptions about which players will be cut/traded.  We all think Adalius Thomas will be moved.  I think Springs will be cut and possibly Morris and Taylor if we draft a big back.  However, we might not take a RB at all and do the RB by committee thing again. If we aren't drafting WR or RB with those first 4 picks, who will we take?  I think TE and OLB are musts.  Outside of that, it is any body's guess. OFFENSE 23 Players Slot 24 Julian Edelman     PUP 29 W Welker WR 22 Brandon Tate     LOT 32 Matt Light 28 Mark LeVoir   LG 28 Logan Mankins 24 George Bussey 24 Rich Ohrnberger C 30 Dan Koppen 28 Dan Connolly   ROG 34 Stephen Neal 24 Ryan Wendell   RT 26 S Vollmer 31 Nick Kaczur   TE 32 Alge Crumpler     QB 33 Tom Brady 24 Brian Hoyer   RB 25 L Maroney 34 Kevin Faulk 34 Fred Taylor 33 Sammy Morris   25 BJ Green-Ellis   WR 33 Randy Moss 36 David Patton           DEFENSE 25 Players DE   29 Ty Warren 28 Mike Wright   NT 28 Vince Wilfork 23 Ron Brace   DE 32 Damione Lewis 24 Myron Pryor   OLB 30 Tully Banta-Cain 26 Rob Ninkovich   ILB 24 Jerod Mayo 28 Eric Alexander 25 Marques Murrell ILB 24 Gary Guyton 24 T McKenzie   OLB 33 Adalius Thomas 25 Shawn Crable 28 Pierre Woods LCB 24 Darius Butler 26 J Wilhite 35 Shawn Springs RCB 29 Leigh Bodden 25 T Wheatley   SS 26 B Meriweather 23 Pat Chung   FS 26 James Sanders 26 B McGowan   SPECIAL TEAMS 4 Players PK 26 S Gostkowski     P TBD     H       LS 24 Jake Ingram     KR 24 Matthew Slater     PR      
    Posted by Faucetman



    Nice Faucet,

    Looking at that I still could envision them taking (DE, TE, OLB, WR) with the first four picks and NOT in any particular order. Also, looking at that I could envision them taking a 2nd TE AND WR in later rounds.

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : This from an article right here on boston.com. If you believe the numbers that Football Outsiders have compiled, then it's a good thing the Patriots re-signed nose tackle Vince Wilfork. The Web site is putting together divisional off-season reviews, and the good people over there have tagged linebackers -- not surprisingly -- as the team's top remaining need . But where most people around here are looking for an upgrade at the position to boost the pass-rush, the Outsiders see the run defense as a major problem too, even as the Patriots ranked a respectable 13th in that category last year. The site's got New England 26th in Adjusted Line Yards, and only one Patriot ranked among the Top 80 in run defeats. That player was Wilfork. As for the rest, Adalius Thomas was called "practically invisible" and Tully Banta-Cain's 2009 season was dismissed as "something of a fluke." I think everyone is expecting the Patriots to address the front seven in the draft. But this might shed some light on why getting run-stoppers could be as much of a priority as pass rushers. I'd argue you need to invest to get rushers -- since it is considered a premium skill -- but it's obvious there are needs across the board in the front seven.
    Posted by Faucetman

    I said long ago I am worried that TBC's season was an aberration. However they must be blind OR they are not breaking the positions into groups like PFF does if they can't see that teams do not run over TY's spot when he is in the game and have no trouble running to that side when he is out injured. I would need to see the article and how it was done.

    Ty's run defense ranking is against other 34 DE's ONLY. They compare players to their peers playing the same position. I don't know if Outsiders lumped NT/DT, 43 DE, 34 DE, OLB etc all in together or not. If they did then I think that is not the best way to do it.

    You compare the quality of what you got against players who play the same starting position in the league ONLY.

    VW's ranking amongst NT/DT's in the league against the run.

    In contrast have a look at D. Lewis (#72) and Mike Wright(#71, while playing NT/DT) against the run. Not good.

    FYI... Jarvis Green was #22 against the run for 34 DE's.

    Bottom line for me, I have no problem with VW or TY against the run and we've never gotten much from them in the pass rush department so there is nothing new there.
     

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