2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Faucet I stole you player chart, here's what I have for the roster using the latest mock I posted.  There are still 3 player over the 53 man roster but can't decide who else goes to practice squad or released. Added pick taken OFFENSE 24 Players Slot 24 Julian Edelman    PUP 29 W Welker WR 22 Brandon Tate R #232 David Gettis   LOT S Vollmer 28 Mark LeVoir   LG 28 Logan Mankins 23 Rich Ohrnberger   C 30 Dan Koppen 28 Dan Connolly   ROG George Bussey Stephen Neal   RT Nick Kaczur R #53 Jared Veldheer   TE 32 Alge Crumpler R #230Scott Sicko   QB 33 Tom Brady 24 Brian Hoyer   RB 25 L Maroney 34 Kevin Faulk 34 Fred Taylor R #206 Alfonso Smith   25 BJ Green-Ellis   WR 33 Randy Moss R #191 Marcus Easley           DEFENSE 27 Players LDE  29 Ty Warren 28 Mike Wright R Kade Weston NT 28 Vince Wilfork 23 Ron Brace   RDE R #44 Tyson Alualu 33 Damione Lewis 25 Myron Pryor OLB 30 Tully Banta-Cain R #119 Daniel Te'Onesheim 24 Marques Murrell ILB 24 Jerod Mayo R #251 Mike Johnson   ILB 24 Gary Guyton 24 T McKenzie   OLB R #22 Everson Griffen 25 Shawn Crable 28 Pierre Woods LCB 24 Darius Butler R   #47 Dominique Franks 25 T Wheatley RCB 29 Leigh Bodden 27 J Wilhite   SS 26 B Meriweather 23 Pat Chung   FS 26 James Sanders 26 B McGowan     SPECIAL TEAMS 5 Players PK 26 S Gostkowski     P TBD     H       LS 24 Jake Ingram     KR 24 Matthew Slater R # 248 Deji Karim   PR R # 248 Deji Karim             Traded       Light       Released       AD       Rob Ninkovich     Shawn Springs     Sammy Morris    
    Posted by Pats7393


    Pats,

    Thanks for playing along.  I love the visual.  Your choices yeild 2 starters.  That's about the best I can do too which means we are mostly drafting for depth and future starters.  I love adding Veldheer, where are you taking him, 53?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Pats, Thanks for playing along.  I love the visual.  Your choices yeild 2 starters.  That's about the best I can do too which means we are mostly drafting for depth and future starters.  I love adding Veldheer, where are you taking him, 53?
    Posted by Faucetman


    Yes I have him at 53, I think because of Volls success last year teams will begin to look harder at these guys, big tall good feet but from small schools.

    As far as for the starters yes I only felt comfortable with those two in the starting spot not because they might be lock at the position but because they are an upgrade to what we have now.

    Although not starters I think Veldheer could end the season playing a significant amout of time at RT.  I think the Patriots have one of the best OL coaches in the league so who knows.  Franks could be across Bodden with Butler in the slot by mid season, high expectations but I really like franks wish I could have Wilson or McCorty but Franks is good value at 47.  Can play press or off and zone, IMO all DBs (maybe not wheatley)will be better this year with Corwin as the coach.

    Out of the two WRs I think Easly has the higher upside but Gettis might be closer to been an immediate impact type player. 
    A guy who I really really like is that kid Mike Johnson LB, he will be a great special teams guy and has it all to be a solid guy behind Mayo.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I said long ago I am worried that TBC's season was an aberration. However they must be blind OR they are not breaking the positions into groups like PFF does if they can't see that teams do not run over TY's spot when he is in the game and have no trouble running to that side when he is out injured. I would need to see the article and how it was done. Ty's run defense ranking is against other 34 DE's ONLY. They compare players to their peers playing the same position. I don't know if Outsiders lumped NT/DT, 43 DE, 34 DE, OLB etc all in together or not. If they did then I think that is not the best way to do it. You compare the quality of what you got against players who play the same starting position in the league ONLY. VW's ranking amongst NT/DT's in the league against the run. In contrast have a look at D. Lewis (#72) and Mike Wright(#71, while playing NT/DT) against the run. Not good. FYI... Jarvis Green was #22 against the run for 34 DE's. Bottom line for me, I have no problem with VW or TY against the run and we've never gotten much from them in the pass rush department so there is nothing new there.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

    Not relying on data, my sense too is that Ty Warren is fine against the run.  The weakness is the other side, right side, of the DL and OLB (Thomas') position.  How was Thomas against the run?  I didn't see him making a lot of plays.

    My sense is Kindle or Graham would be good to replace Thomas but we still need a stud 34 DT type and Odrick seems to be the only one in reach.  The choices are: Graham (or Kindle) at 22, then Alualu at #44 or 48 OR Odrick at #22 and Sapp or Misi at 48 or 53.  Then we need to bolster the ILB spot where Guyton played.  Would you agree?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrustBill. Show TrustBill's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Why has not Dunlap got any visit from any team? No interest?  Or no team wants to show their interest?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Why has not Dunlap got any visit from any team? No interest?  Or no team wants to show their interest?
    Posted by TrustBill


    CBS Sports/NFL Draft Scout has Dunlap down to #46 on their big board.  Teams just can't afford to spend high picks on guys that have big character issues.  Dez Bryant is dropping too.  There are only so many CIN and OAKs out there willing to use a high pick on these guys.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Oh ok. My comments were directed at you. Like Faucet mentioned there are ways Graham can make it to 22, and, if not, I'm sure they can maneuver to get him by trading some picks to move up.

    The guy is a beast. You'll see why many on this board love him.


    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Rock is that statement directed at me? I don't believe I have ever done that. I gave a detailed opinion on Hughes because I watched his film highlights and a few games of his. There have been times I have posted on here with regards to a player but if it is based on what I have read ONLY I will add that fact in my post. When I made the statement about Graham what I said in response to the gentleman who said Graham and Hughes was the same was "IF that is true". Meaning IF that post IS accurate and they ARE the same then I would not be as high on Graham based on my evaluation of Hughes. I was only responding to his post and not giving an opinion on Graham as I do not have one since I have not watched him. I have not watched many guys that are expected to be off the board before us. Instead focusing on the ones most likely to be available and later round guys as well.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rockdog1293000. Show Rockdog1293000's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    There are clips of Graham beating Baluga. Those would be good ones to check out...


    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Faucet I will try and find some time and look at some Michigan highlights. I have watched Senior bowl highlights but not specifically for watching Graham although you do pick up on many different players watching a game like that. I really do not wish to form any sort of opinion for Graham specifically from that game(senior bowl) because he was lined up over either Ciron Black OR Selvish Capers form most of the highlights I saw.  While I give Graham all the credit in the world as he did what he is supposed to, beat up on weaker quality opponents I still want to try and find some clips of him going against some top rated OT's. That's why mbeau and I always say I wish it wasn't a "senior" bowl but a top draft prospects bowl instead. It's bad enough not have the juniors there but then you have a number of seniors who opt not to participate as well. Not positive but I believe 4 or the 1st 5 OT's expected to be off the board in the draft were NOT at the senior bowl. Feel free to correct that as I am not positive.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    OFFENSE 23 Players
    Slot24 Julian Edelman  PUP 29 W Welker
    WR22 Brandon Tate  
    LOT32 Matt Light28 Mark LeVoir 
    LG28 Logan Mankins24 George Bussey24 Rich Ohrnberger
    C30 Dan Koppen28 Dan Connolly 
    ROG34 Stephen Neal24 Ryan Wendell 
    RT26 S Vollmer31 Nick Kaczur 
    TE32 Alge Crumpler  
    QB33 Tom Brady24 Brian Hoyer 
    RB25 L Maroney34 Kevin Faulk34 Fred Taylor
    33 Sammy Morris 
    25 BJ Green-Ellis 
    WR33 Randy Moss36 David Patton 
        
    DEFENSE 25 Players
    DE 29 Ty Warren28 Mike Wright 
    NT28 Vince Wilfork23 Ron Brace 
    DE32 Damione Lewis24 Myron Pryor 
    OLB30 Tully Banta-Cain26 Rob Ninkovich 
    ILB24 Jerod Mayo28 Eric Alexander25 Marques Murrell
    ILB24 Gary Guyton24 T McKenzie 
    OLB33 Adalius Thomas25 Shawn Crable28 Pierre Woods
    LCB24 Darius Butler26 J Wilhite35 Shawn Springs
    RCB29 Leigh Bodden25 T Wheatley 
    SS26 B Meriweather23 Pat Chung 
    FS26 James Sanders26 B McGowan 
     
    SPECIAL TEAMS 4 Players
    PK26 S Gostkowski  
    PTBD  
    H   
    LS24 Jake Ingram  
    KR24 Matthew Slater  
    PR   

    By no means are the following grades exact or absolute as no one is perfect and certainly not Draft Ace either. Using Draft Ace grades, if available,  I put together some food for thought comparing our young players to some of this drafts crop at various positions. It's just for discussion purposes and is not intended be be some sort of exact grading example, ONLY guidelines for generating conversation.

    CB Grade
    Leigh Bodden UDFA
    Darius Butler 89
    Terrence Wheatley 77
    Jonathan Wilhite 52
    Devin McCourtey 91
    Kyle Wilson 91
    Patrick Robinson 90
    Kareem Jackson 88
    Dominque Franks 80
    Brandon Ghee 78
    Amari Spievey 68

    OG Grade
    None of the young backups were even on the radar or graded but based on where the patriots took Bussey and Ohrnberger their grades would have been in the 50-60's range.
    John Asamoah 82
    John Jerry 78
    Vladimir Ducasse 75
    Mike Johnson 72
    Marshall Newhouse 62

    OT Grade
    Sabastian Vollmer 78
    Nick Kaczur NA but 3rd round would be in the 70's
    Trent Wiliams 91
    Charles Brown  90
    Anthony Davis 87
    Roger Saffold 78
    Jared Veldheer 75
    Kyle Calloway 68
    Chris Marinelli 60
    Tony Washington 53


    S Grade
    Brandon Meriweather 83
    Patrick Chung 82
    Earl Thomas 91
    Nate Allen 90
    Reshad Jones 89
    Myron Rolle 77
    Major Wright 69
    Kam Chancelor 64

    WR Grade
    Julian Edelman NG
    Brandon Tate 63
    Golden Tate 91
    Dmaryius Thomas 90
    Damian Williams 79
    Eric Decker 77
    Riley Cooper 74
    Andre Roberts 73
    Marcus Easley 65
    David Gettis 59
    Emmanuel Sanders 57

    QB Grade
    Brian Hoyer 56
    Tim Tebow 70
    Tony Pike 67
    Zac Robinson 51

    LB's Grade
    Jerod Mayo 88
    Bruce Davis 86
    Tyrone McKenzie 80
    Shawn Crable 77
    Gary Guyton 67
    Marques Murrell 45
    Brandon Graham 93
    Sean Weatherspoon 92
    Sergio Kindle 91
    Jerry Hughes 91
    Everson Griffin 90
    JPP 89
    Carlos Dunlap 88
    Daryl Washington 87
    Ricky Sapp 86
    Thaddeus Gibson 84
    Koa Misi 80
    Jason Worilds 79
    Pat Angerer 74
    Brandon Spikes 72
    Lindsey Witten 70
    AJ Edds 69
    Jermaine Cunningham 65
    Daniel Te'O 50

    DT/DE Grade
    Ron Brace 88
    Myron Pryor NG
    Darryl Richard 45
    Dan Williams 94
    Jared Odrick 93
    Tyson Alualu 89
    Cam Thomas 88
    Corey Wooton 87
    Alex Carrington 86
    Lamarr Houston  84
    Linval Joseph 70
    Arthur Jones 61
    Corey Peters 55
    Brandon Deaderick 53
    Al Woods 50


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Not relying on data, my sense too is that Ty Warren is fine against the run.  The weakness is the other side, right side, of the DL and OLB (Thomas') position.  How was Thomas against the run?  I didn't see him making a lot of plays. My sense is Kindle or Graham would be good to replace Thomas but we still need a stud 34 DT type and Odrick seems to be the only one in reach.  The choices are: Graham (or Kindle) at 22, then Alualu at #44 or 48 OR Odrick at #22 and Sapp or Misi at 48 or 53.  Then we need to bolster the ILB spot where Guyton played.  Would you agree?
    Posted by Faucetman


    I would agree with most everything you said Faucet, yes. I think they might add a another player at ILB later if they think they have the right guy available to finally bump Alexander. As far as Guyton I think he's pretty good but more importantly I believe they are expecting Mckenzie to take over that spot. You can see from my post above that he had a pretty high grade coming out. Higher than Guyton, assuming the grades are in the ball park of being fairly accurate.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportsbozo1. Show sportsbozo1's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I would agree with most everything you said Faucet, yes. I think they might add a another player at ILB later if they think they have the right guy available to finally bump Alexander. As far as Guyton I think he's pretty good but more importantly I believe they are expecting Mckenzie to take over that spot. You can see from my post above that he had a pretty high grade coming out. Higher than Guyton, assuming the grades are in the ball park of being fairly accurate.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ
    Most scouting services or indivigual Scouts don't use the 100% scale that you employed,they use the 8.0 scale as the highest grade given. So though I don't know the exact grade of the players you have graded out,I'm sure that they grade differential would surprise you.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Hello guys i have a Question for you...  How high can we go in a first round trade if we give up: Raiders 2011 1st round pick + 2010 #53 + Adalius Thomas. Can we get to the top 5 ?  or better can we get another first rounder this year? say # 8 or 9 ?? Thanks !  
    Posted by auchhhhhhhhhhh

    Difficult question.  Usually you count a future year pick one round lower so the Raiders 2011 pick should be worth a 2010 2nd.  If the Raiders are expected to do the same it would be pick 40.  If the Raiders are expected to do better than the pick drops in value.  Then the question is how much value do you assign to Thomas?  If he were traded straight up maybe you get a 3rd but more likely you get a 4th because everyone expects us to cut him.

    For sake of argument, we could get to #5 if we did this AND included our #22 this year.  See below value chart.  Without giving up #22 we could get to #17 with Thomas, our 2011 Raider first and our #53.

    Round 1Round 2Round 3Round 4
    13,000335806526597112
    22,600345606626098108
    32,200355506725599104
    41,8003654068250100100
    51,700375306924510196
    61,600385207024010292
    71,500395107123510388
    81,400405007223010486
    91,350414907322510584
    101,300424807422010682
    111,250434707521510780
    121,200444607621010878
    131,150454507720510976
    141,100464407820011074
    151,050474307919511172
    161,000484208019011270
    17950494108118511368
    18900504008218011466
    19875513908317511564
    20850523808417011662
    21800533708516511760
    22780543608616011858
    23760553508715511956
    24740563408815012054
    25720573308914512152
    26700583209014012250
    27680593109113612349
    28660603009213212448
    29640612929312812547
    30620622849412412646
    31600632769512012745
    32590642709611612844
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    OFFENSE 23 Players Slot 24 Julian Edelman     PUP 29 W Welker WR 22 Brandon Tate     LOT 32 Matt Light 28 Mark LeVoir   LG 28 Logan Mankins 24 George Bussey 24 Rich Ohrnberger C 30 Dan Koppen 28 Dan Connolly   ROG 34 Stephen Neal 24 Ryan Wendell   RT 26 S Vollmer 31 Nick Kaczur   TE 32 Alge Crumpler     QB 33 Tom Brady 24 Brian Hoyer   RB 25 L Maroney 34 Kevin Faulk 34 Fred Taylor 33 Sammy Morris   25 BJ Green-Ellis   WR 33 Randy Moss 36 David Patton           DEFENSE 25 Players DE   29 Ty Warren 28 Mike Wright   NT 28 Vince Wilfork 23 Ron Brace   DE 32 Damione Lewis 24 Myron Pryor   OLB 30 Tully Banta-Cain 26 Rob Ninkovich   ILB 24 Jerod Mayo 28 Eric Alexander 25 Marques Murrell ILB 24 Gary Guyton 24 T McKenzie   OLB 33 Adalius Thomas 25 Shawn Crable 28 Pierre Woods LCB 24 Darius Butler 26 J Wilhite 35 Shawn Springs RCB 29 Leigh Bodden 25 T Wheatley   SS 26 B Meriweather 23 Pat Chung   FS 26 James Sanders 26 B McGowan     SPECIAL TEAMS 4 Players PK 26 S Gostkowski     P TBD     H       LS 24 Jake Ingram     KR 24 Matthew Slater     PR       By no means are the following grades exact or absolute as no one is perfect and certainly not Draft Ace either. Using Draft Ace grades, if available,  I put together some food for thought comparing our young players to some of this drafts crop at various positions. It's just for discussion purposes and is not intended be be some sort of exact grading example, ONLY guidelines for generating conversation. CB Grade Leigh Bodden UDFA Darius Butler 89 Terrence Wheatley 77 Jonathan Wilhite 52 Devin McCourtey 91 Kyle Wilson 91 Patrick Robinson 90 Kareem Jackson 88 Dominque Franks 80 Brandon Ghee 78 Amari Spievey 68 OG Grade None of the young backups were even on the radar or graded but based on where the patriots took Bussey and Ohrnberger their grades would have been in the 50-60's range. S Grade Brandon Meriweather 83 Patrick Chung 82 Earl Thomas 91 Nate Allen 90 Reshad Jones 89 Myron Rolle 77 Major Wright 69 Kam Chancelor 64 WR Grade Julian Edelman NG Brandon Tate 63 Golden Tate 91 Dmaryius Thomas 90 Damian Williams 79 Eric Decker 77 Riley Cooper 74 Andre Roberts 73 Marcus Easley 65 David Gettis 59 Emmanuel Sanders 57 QB Grade Brian Hoyer 56 Tim Tebow 70 Tony Pike 67 Zac Robinson 51 LB's Grade Jerod Mayo 88 Bruce Davis 86 Tyrone McKenzie 80 Shawn Crable 77 Gary Guyton 67 Marques Murrell 45 Brandon Graham 93 Sean Weatherspoon 92 Sergio Kindle 91 Jerry Hughes 91 Everson Griffin 90 JPP 89 Carlos Dunlap 88 Daryl Washington 87 Ricky Sapp 86 Thaddeus Gibson 84 Koa Misi 80 Jason Worilds 79 Pat Angerer 74 Brandon Spikes 72 Lindsey Witten 70 AJ Edds 69 Jermaine Cunningham 65 Daniel Te'O 50 DT/DE Grade Ron Brace 88 Myron Pryor NG Darryl Richard 45 Dan Williams 94 Jared Odrick 93 Tyson Alualu 89 Cam Thomas 88 Corey Wooton 87 Alex Carrington 86 Lamarr Houston  84 Linval Joseph 70 Arthur Jones 61 Corey Peters 55 Brandon Deaderick 53 Al Woods 50
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I'm a bit surprised about Bruce Davis, I knew he was 3rd rounder but didn't think he was graded that high.  He will be competing for a spot and wish I knew what they thought about him.  If they think he's a player who will create a rush would that change who they pick at OLB?  Same thing goes for Murrell

    2008 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:

    Bruce Davis, DE, UCLA

    Davis is a hybrid 3-4 outside linebacker or 4-3 defensive end. He does not have great size at 240 pounds, but plays with a great motor. Davis is at his best when he is able to pin his ears back and rush the passer. He has a tendency to get stonewalled by mammoth defensive tackles, but could benefit greatly from being moved around in the right defensive scheme. Davis is lightning quick and can beat most tackles with his first step. If he is playing against a tackle without sound footwork, he will harass the quarterback all day. He does play too high at times and can get stalemated when this happens. He moves very well laterally, which NFL coaches look for in a "tweener" prospect who may have to drop back into coverage. Davis struggles when teams pound the ball at him and he lacks ideal closing speed, but there's a lot to like about his upside. Davis finished the season with 45 tackles (15.5 for a loss) and 12 sacks in 13 games. He has the athletic ability to develop into a productive pass rusher in any scheme and the tenacity to develop into an every-down outside linebacker in a 3-4-scheme. Davis disappeared a little bit at Senior Bowl practice. This may be because of all of the talent around him, or due to a position change as he is no longer playing with his hand on the ground. Davis will flourish if put in the right system. Davis had a good combine running a 4.72 forty yard dash, but weighed in at just 252 pounds. Davis will be a project player and will likely take a few seasons to grow into a starting outside linebacker in the NFL. Davis is the type of player that Bill Belichick has molded into an All-Pro. He is a high motor player that won't quit on a play and will likely contribute for many years in the NFL.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Hello guys i have a Question for you...  How high can we go in a first round trade if we give up: Raiders 2011 1st round pick + 2010 #53 + Adalius Thomas. Can we get to the top 5 ?  or better can we get another first rounder this year? say # 8 or 9 ?? Thanks !  
    Posted by auchhhhhhhhhhh


    The question then becomes, would SF move out of #17 (the 2nd of their 2 first round picks) for our 2011 first, 53 and A. Thomas?  I doubt it because they don't need LB help but they do need DE, OG, and S help.  They might go Pierre-Paul at 13 but for them to pass up on Iupati or Earl Thomas would be a tall order.  Trading with TEN at 16 might be better since they need ILB and OLB help.  They also need DT help.  Would we part with Mike Wright on Ron Brace then go get Graham at 16?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    I would love to see Graham as a Patriot but IMO moving back is probably the move we see on draft day, not because that's what the Pats have done yes that's an indicator but because this draft the players ranked as 1st round talent go well into the late 2nd maybe a few sneak into the 3rd.

    Would like to see them move back from 22 to late 20s for a 2nd or a 3rd and 2011 2nd and a 6th.  Move back into low 30s for a 2011 3rd and 2010 3rd ect.  I think if we can end with 5 picks in the 2nd round you can have 4 starters.  Because next year's draft is not supposed to be a strong one I think BB will pick a lot of his 2010 early rounds and try to work some moves including some of the later rounds.

    Here's a list of players who I believe will be 2nd round who can start in 2010.
    Tyson Alualu
    Kareem Jackson
    Brian Price
    Patrick Robinson
    Rodger Saffold
    Terrence Cody
    Rob Gronkowski
    Jahid Best
    Toby Gerhart
    Ben Tate
    Nate Allen
    Lamarr Houston
    Damian Williams
    Ricky Sapp (on the fense with him)
    Alex Carrington
    Jon Asamoah
    Sean Lee (maybe not for the Pats but a starter)
    Matt Tenant
    Carlton Mitchell
    Jonathan Dwyer
    Montario Hadesty

    This does not include guys with a 3rd round grade but who should be albe to start, Anthony McCoy TE, Cam Thomas among a few.  I would like to see 4 or 5 2nd, 2 3rd 2 4th and 4 or 5 late rounders.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    I would love to see Graham as a Patriot but IMO moving back is probably the move we see on draft day, not because that's what the Pats have done yes that's an indicator but because this draft the players ranked as 1st round talent go well into the late 2nd maybe a few sneak into the 3rd. Would like to see them move back from 22 to late 20s for a 2nd or a 3rd and 2011 2nd and a 6th.  Move back into low 30s for a 2011 3rd and 2010 3rd ect.  I think if we can end with 5 picks in the 2nd round you can have 4 starters.  Because next year's draft is not supposed to be a strong one I think BB will pick a lot of his 2010 early rounds and try to work some moves including some of the later rounds.
    Posted by Pats7393

    I have not seen that stated anywhere.

    I asked a similar question to Jaremiah from Move the Sticks and Draft Ace. Both basically said anywhere from 4-8 players with possible 1st round talent spill over into the top of round 2.

    Just their opinions and I would not really know myself but I really have not read anything anywhere hinting at more than that.

    Draft ace as an example averages around 28 1st round grades he gives out (26 in 09). Typically less than a whole 1st round. This year I think he said he had given out 34 or 35.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I have not seen that stated anywhere. I asked a similar question to Jaremiah from Move the Sticks and Draft Ace. Both basically said anywhere from 4-8 players with possible 1st round talent spill over into the top of round 2. Just their opinions and I would not really know myself but I really have not read anything anywhere hinting at more than that. Draft ace as an example averages around 28 1st round grades he gives out (26 in 09). Typically less than a whole 1st round. This year I think he said he had given out 34 or 35.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I analyze business operations for a living so I don't go based on one site or a few write and like to look at the draft as a whole and see what is needed by teams.  I won't quote opinions here on what I've read some where else, might post for others to read but this is base on my assessment of the draft.  Don't know why you quote this DraftAce so much but I guess you trust their opinion.  If you look at some of the other experts like Mayock and some others they are higher than that as 1st round grade.

    The draft is deep but talent wise there no real standouts other than a few players, Haden Berry Suh McCoy and a few others but after those guys there are a ton of players with similar skill set.  Teams will draft base on prefference and offcourse how that player projects in their system.  Just because a player is ranked higher doesn't mean a team at 30 doesn't pick a player ranked lower but to them fits better in their system. 

    Now you can say you read it here first lol
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Here's my list of 1st round grades.

    DT/DE
    Suh
    McCoy
    Williams
    Odrick
    Price
    Cody 
    OLB/ILB
    Morgan
    McClain
    Graham
    JPP
    Kindle
    Griffen
    Weatherspoon
    Washington
    Hughes
    CB/S
    Berry
    Haden
    Thomas
    Mays (maybe)
    Wilson
    McCorty
    Jackson
    OT/OG
    Okung
    Williams
    Bulaga
    Davis
    Iupati
    Pouncey
    Brown
    Campbell 
    RB
    C.J. Spiller
    Ryan Matthew
    QB
    Bradford
    Clausen
    Tebow
    TE
    Gresham
    WR
    Bryant
    Tate
    Thomas
    A few who missed 1st round grade
    Colt McCoy
    Rob Gronkowski
    Nate Allen
    Rodger Saffold
    Robinson
    Best


    And yes I'm kidding about Tebow!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I analyze business operations for a living so I don't go based on one site or a few write and like to look at the draft as a whole and see what is needed by teams.  I won't quote opinions here on what I've read some where else, might post for others to read but this is base on my assessment of the draft.  Don't know why you quote this DraftAce so much but I guess you trust their opinion.  If you look at some of the other experts like Mayock and some others they are higher than that as 1st round grade. The draft is deep but talent wise there no real standouts other than a few players, Haden Berry Suh McCoy and a few others but after those guys there are a ton of players with similar skill set.  Teams will draft base on prefference and offcourse how that player projects in their system.  Just because a player is ranked higher doesn't mean a team at 30 doesn't pick a player ranked lower but to them fits better in their system.  Now you can say you read it here first lol
    Posted by Pats7393


    I was only saying that I have now gotten that feeling from reading "anything" on the web. 

    I also personally think the same. I do not feel there are 32 players worth 1st round picks in most years drafts. I also think its statistically not probable to have top 5 QB's every single year.

    I also believe that is why the Patriots have many times traded down from the lower first because they did not think the players available were worth a 1st round pick, to them.

    Again these are all just my own opinions but i don't believe there are 2 full rounds of 1st round caliber talent.

    I was pretty sure I said Draft Ace was not perfect and I only use them for Grades and nothing else. I ONLY Use them as a guideline because they are the only site I have found that has the guts to give a numerical grade on players. Someone mentioned Kiper as well but I do not have a subscript to him. Having the numerical grade is at least a way, based on a lone website opinion , to compare players when you don't have time to check everyones film. It is also the ONLY way to do what I tried to do for all of you in showing how the player grades compare historically.

    You simply can't do it with other sites. Well I take that back, someone else posted something on here showing the NFL draft tracker giving numerical grades so later tonight i will try to add those grades to that post as a 2nd opinion. I think they only maintain the current year though so I won't be able to find past grades. They use 1-10 vs 1-100 but I assume it's the same thing... 9's are 1st rounds, 8's are 2nds etc.

    If you don't do that then you would never be able to compare against your own players. Let's look at the OT for a moment. I have to make an assumption that the grades are mostly accurate but let's say they are. If they are then why draft Veldherr or Kyle Calloway or Tony Washington and make an automatic assumption that they would supplant Kaczur as the starting right Tackle when his grade was obviously in the 70's as a 3rd rounder. It's possible but if the grades are accurate and the same I don't think it's a slam dunk. The real problem with this example however is I do not know Draft Aces grade for Kaczur and am guessing the Pat's grade based on where he was drafted. It's a bad example but you get my point. How accurate Draft Ace's grades are less relevant as long as he is consistent in his evaluation year after year and we ONLY compare his grades against his grades which is what I tried to do.


    Again none of it is fact by any means but if you don't have a basis to start from it's like pi$$ing in the wind. It's meant only as a point of discussion but at least a statistical, logic based starting point. None of us have any idea what the Patriots Value board looks like so I have to use someones ranking that allows me to not only compare this years players to each other but to our current rostered players.

    That's why I simply question sometimes when people suggest drafting certain guys at a position we already have players who most likely had a higher grade coming out. Does it mean they are wrong no absolutely not. Simply that there is cause for questioning the decision and asking why would you do that.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Here's my list of 1st round grades. DT/DE Suh McCoy Williams Odrick Price Cody   OLB/ILB Morgan McClain Graham JPP Kindle Griffen Weatherspoon Washington Hughes CB/S Berry Haden Thomas Mays (maybe) Wilson McCorty Jackson OT/OG Okung Williams Bulaga Davis Iupati Pouncey Brown Campbell   RB C.J. Spiller Ryan Matthew QB Bradford Clausen Tebow TE Gresham WR Bryant Tate Thomas A few who missed 1st round grade Colt McCoy Rob Gronkowski Nate Allen Rodger Saffold Robinson Best And yes I'm kidding about Tebow!
    Posted by Pats7393


    I would simply suggest you are very gracious and more forgiving/less damanding than I am.

    ...but it's all good.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Pats,

    I might be in the minority here...or should I say, I am in the minority here, but I would probably not draft Graham with the 22nd pick unless we plan on playing a very high percentage of 4-3 defense. I watched a lot of tape on him, and no one can argue his pass rushing, ability to set edge and tackling ability...but i don't see how he transitions to 3-4 OLB. Asking him to drop into coverage with his short arms, his height and not the fastest of OLB's I think creates a liability for us out in space. 
    To me, he seems like a very good 4-3 DE...And if I was a 4-3 defensive team, I would grab him in a second. 
    So, I keep going back and forth on who is the player that is going to be out there 3 downs for us? I'm not necessarily thinking defense at this point. I'm starting to lean toward MB's guy in Golden Tate, or possibly OL with Pouncey, or someone I'm going to get more mileage from on all 3 downs. 
    Please talk me off the edge...


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I was only saying that I have now gotten that feeling from reading "anything" on the web.  I also personally think the same. I do not feel there are 32 players worth 1st round picks in most years drafts. I also think its statistically not probable to have top 5 QB's every single year. I also believe that is why the Patriots have many times traded down from the lower first because they did not think the players available were worth a 1st round pick, to them. Again these are all just my own opinions but i don't believe there are 2 full rounds of 1st round caliber talent. I was pretty sure I said Draft Ace was not perfect and I only use them for Grades and nothing else. I ONLY Use them as a guideline because they are the only site I have found that has the guts to give a numerical grade on players. Someone mentioned Kiper as well but I do not have a subscript to him. Having the numerical grade is at least a way, based on a lone website opinion , to compare players when you don't have time to check everyones film. It is also the ONLY way to do what I tried to do for all of you in showing how the player grades compare historically. You simply can't do it with other sites. Well I take that back, someone else posted something on here showing the NFL draft tracker giving numerical grades so later tonight i will try to add those grades to that post as a 2nd opinion. I think they only maintain the current year though so I won't be able to find past grades. They use 1-10 vs 1-100 but I assume it's the same thing... 9's are 1st rounds, 8's are 2nds etc. If you don't do that then you would never be able to compare against your own players. Let's look at the OT for a moment. I have to make an assumption that the grades are mostly accurate but let's say they are. If they are then why draft Veldherr or Kyle Calloway or Tony Washington and make an automatic assumption that they would supplant Kaczur as the starting right Tackle when his grade was obviously in the 70's as a 3rd rounder. It's possible but if the grades are accurate and the same I don't think it's a slam dunk. The real problem with this example however is I do not know Draft Aces grade for Kaczur and am guessing the Pat's grade based on where he was drafted. It's a bad example but you get my point. How accurate Draft Ace's grades are less relevant as long as he is consistent in his evaluation year after year and we ONLY compare his grades against his grades which is what I tried to do. Again none of it is fact by any means but if you don't have a basis to start from it's like pi$$ing in the wind. It's meant only as a point of discussion but at least a statistical, logic based starting point. None of us have any idea what the Patriots Value board looks like so I have to use someones ranking that allows me to not only compare this years players to each other but to our current rostered players. That's why I simply question sometimes when people suggest drafting certain guys at a position we already have players who most likely had a higher grade coming out. Does it mean they are wrong no absolutely not. Simply that there is cause for questioning the decision and asking why would you do that.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    The Katzur example, then why draft any player if they they have a higher point value? 
    You keep making a reference to a point value but not to actual evaluation.  Why draft a guy because they are evaluated and the team based on that evaluation project growth and if they will become a star or a bust.  Why draft Veldheer, he has the what most look for in a OT, height strength and moves well.  The projection comes with NFL coaching will he grow into a starter or a backup.  Guess we look at projections a different way.  I don't go based on a point system not knowing why they might not grade that player, is it because he has been suspended because of academics or has 3 DUIs or hips are tight can't bend catches with his body instead of extending his arms for the catch.

    Some of the things that can be coached whether it is eggo or not coaches are willing to take a player a bit higher because they believe they can coach the guy into a higher level, Mays will be a perfect example.  Gifted athlete but not good in coverage I'm sure there will be a coach that says I can coach that player into a pro bowler.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I would simply suggest you are very gracious and more forgiving/less damanding than I am. ...but it's all good.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    which player you feel it I'm too generous on?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Pats, I might be in the minority here...or should I say, I am in the minority here, but I would probably not draft Graham with the 22nd pick unless we plan on playing a very high percentage of 4-3 defense. I watched a lot of tape on him, and no one can argue his pass rushing, ability to set edge and tackling ability...but i don't see how he transitions to 3-4 OLB. Asking him to drop into coverage with his short arms, his height and not the fastest of OLB's I think creates a liability for us out in space.  To me, he seems like a very good 4-3 DE...And if I was a 4-3 defensive team, I would grab him in a second.  So, I keep going back and forth on who is the player that is going to be out there 3 downs for us? I'm not necessarily thinking defense at this point. I'm starting to lean toward MB's guy in Golden Tate, or possibly OL with Pouncey, or someone I'm going to get more mileage from on all 3 downs.  Please talk me off the edge...
    Posted by PatsLifer


    Those are some very very valid points on Graham, I share your concerns but just find him to be that type player who will make up for some of his not so ideal size ect with effort.  He will be going to Atlanta I can almost put money onthat one.

    A guy I think fits the mold better if Everson Griffen 6'4" 273 4.65 40, he played DE for USC but was asked to drop back on limited basis.  There are some questions on him but I think if those are answered during their interviews he's probably a strong option at 22.  I like him better than Kindle, I don't know why I keep thinking Kindle bust body to similar to Crable.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Everson Griffen, don't want to go here but this is why I don't like him. He screams steroid user to me, his voice, build, mannerisms all remind me of some friends back home after many years of abuse. I watched a couple interviews of him and saw him practicing in skins. An obvious personal opinion but i can't shake it. Turns me off from the Pat's jumping on him, all the other tools are there though for this guy. He can play
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Sounds like a guy who's really happy about landing with the Pats.  He has some other options and selected the Pats

    Meeting new No. 93: LB Marques Murrell

    April, 8, 2010
    Apr 8
    2:40
    PM ET
    By Mike Reiss
    FOXBOROUGH -- Linebacker Marques Murrell has flown under the radar this offseason since signing a two-year contract with the Patriots ($100,000 signing bonus). If nothing else, he's sure to catch the attention of Patriots fans in training camp based on his jersey number (93), which was previously worn by Richard Seymour.

    Yet Murrell had a quick-developing market for his services this offseason, which reflects a player who still has value in the eyes of some talent evaluators.

    Not tendered a contract by the New York Jets as a restricted free agent, Murrell unexpectedly became an unrestricted free agent March 5. The Patriots and Broncos then pounced.

    "The turnaround was two days. My agent told me give it a week or two, but the turnaround was actually a little faster than I intended," Murrell told reporters on Thursday at Gillette Stadium. "As soon as the Jets didn’t re-sign me, I was on a plane to come here to Foxboro, then I went to Denver, and came back to Foxboro and signed the paperwork."

    Murrell (6-2, 250) is considered a strong special teams player. It's also possible that he could help boost the Patriots' pass rush, which was his forte in college at Appalachian State.

    Four quick hits from Murrell's interview today:

    What has surprised him with the Patriots. “Just the work ethic, and also how much of a team. Guys are really truly teammates around here. I’m not saying nobody else is not teammates, but it’s more of a close-knit family here, I can say.”

    How he describes his style of play. “Hard work. Smart. Play hard. Will get to the ball, make plays.”

    On how he views himself as a player -- special teams vs. defense. “In the NFL, you always have to look at yourself as a special teamer first. Special teams can change the game instantly as a deep bomb by Brady or an interception by Meriweather and taking it to the house. I definitely look at myself as special teams first, then a defensive player.”

    What his brother, former Jets running back Adrian Murrell, said about him changing sides in the rivalry. “Adrian told me that was a very good move just because Belichick, he’s a great coach. He’s one of the greatest coaches. It’s no-nonsense. I can understand that. You’re always going to play a little bit and have fun, but it’s about winning here.”
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share