2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : He won't get past the Texans at 20 and if he does, we should take him at #22 (780) unless SD wants to move up to our spot and give us #28 (660) and their 3rd #92 (132).  With this trade we could do this. #28 OLB Jerry Hughes #44 WR Brandon LaFell #48 OT Rodger Saffold #53 RB Toby Gerhart #92 TE Jimmy Graham 4th MLB Brandon Spikes 6th DT Corey Peters 7th on BPA
    Posted by Faucetman


    That's true Houston could. I have heard rumblings. However I have also heard no way because they have Slaton and he his good and they like him and that if there were to look for another it would be in the same vein as you suggest for us. A more inside bruiser type to compliment Slaton. Slaton had an off year and I am guessing he was injured cause he only appeared in 11 games but he rushed for 1200+ yards in 2008.

    As for us no I would not like them to take Mathews at #22.

    Look at all the recent superbowl winners and look at their biggest contributer(or starter) at Running back.

    Pierre Thomas - UDFA
    Dominik Rhodes - UDFA (yes Addai was on the team and a 1st but Rhodes should have been the MVP of the game)
    Willie Parker - UDFA
    Brandon Jacobs - 4th round
    Corey Dillon - 2nd round
    Michael Pittman - 4th round

    I think you have to go back to A. Smith with the Patriots but even given that the rules were before the league changed to a pass happy league and even Smith ran for LESS than 4.0 yards a carry.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Forget the grades. Ha! Yeah I think Not. Grades are based on the tape and the tape don't lie. The grades are NOT perfect but they are a pretty good indicator because the top graded players by and large are always the guys most people perceive to be any ways. If I was going to ignore the facts why bother checking anything out we all might as well just make it all up.  They are based on all skills for a player.   Exactly! That's the point. The "player". NOT the "receiver" or the "blocker".  If we got Olsen it would be to do one thing, catch the ball and move the chains.  Olsen is a lot better receiver than Watson.   Let me quote BB for you. "If I wanted a receiver I would draft a receiver and not a tight end."   The one year we actually used Watson as a receiver he caught 49 passes. That means "he" can do the job as well. Go look at some numbers. If Olsen came here he would NOT have good numbers. They would go down and even worse he would aid in getting Brady killed. Baker avg'd 31 receptions before coming here his number last season? 14 - Less than half the avg of his previous 3 seasons. Dave Thomas leaves and his numbers go UP. He catches almost as many balls as Watson and Baker combined by simply going to a different offensive system. The grades on Watson and Olsen are close based on the total player for 2 reason. 1st Watson is an obvious much better pass blocker as well as run blocker but secondly the receiver grade for Watson is less than Olsen by not that much. The grades for receiving are based on how the player performs with the opportunities given to him not simply by how many catches he has. You do not rip another guy down for having less opportunities. The "receiving" ONLY grade on Olsen was 14th in the league and Watson was 18th.  Sorry I am not giving up my 2nd best safety last season on my team and 26th rated safety in the league for a TE who is marginally better at only one aspect of his game than the player I just let walk because I had absolutely no interest in resigning him. To me that makes no sense. Here is the other reason I do not want a receiving only TE. If I am a defensive player and I know every time Olsen is in the game it's a pass then yahoo for my defense. Olsen is a fit for a lot of teams and could put up similar numbers in the right system but I do not see it happening here. He doesn't fit the Patriots system as it is currently constituted. You can see in the graphic above the comparison. It was sorted with "Receiving" set to be the filter. I took the liberty to highlight a couple important things. You want to post your reception but as I stated before the graphic you have to look at the targeting.   Olsen was targeted 105 times to Watson's 40. Olsen should have more receptions based on that it's a huge difference. Let me point something even more important to you. Watson caught 72.5% of the balls thrown to him. Olsen only caught 56.2%. Watson also had a higher yards per reception. Watson also only has 3 fewer touchdowns even though he had less than half the opportunities at receptions. But I forgot I am suppose to "forget the grades" and what they mean. Again if the Patriots had absolutely NO interest in resigning Watson who would not have cost them a single player and only money why would they ever want to part with their 2nd best safety and a draft pick or their 2nd best safety and their 2nd best OLB for Olsen. Especially since Watson is considered the better all around player and only a marginally less receiver. We can agree to disagree my friend but I fail to see the logic in it. I would trade Sanders and a 6th for Olsen in a heartbeat.  I would trade Sanders and A. Thomas straight up for Olsen.  By doing this, we dump the $5MM, get out of the contract and decide where Thomas goes for the next two years.  If we don't find a trading partner for Thomas, we cut him and he is wearing Jet green the next day.   As far as receiving skills, you compare Watson and Olsen and tell me who you think is better.  With Crump on board to block, Olsen can be used just as a receiver.  Keep in mind also that Olsen had NOBODY to get him the ball with Brady, watch out.  And Olsen is young!!! I answered all of these already above but I will reiterate. Olsen did not have Brady but Chicago also did not have much in way of receivers the past few years either. The one year we did not have much in receivers Watson had a good number of receptions and that's still in a less TE friendly offense. Olsen Receiving Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM 2009 Chicago Bears 16 60 612 10.2 38.2 41 8 9 1 33 0 2008 Chicago Bears 16 54 574 10.6 35.9 52 5 6 1 31 2 2007 Chicago Bears 14 39 391 10.0 27.9 31 2 6 0 19 0 TOTAL 46 153 1,577 10.3 34.3 52 15 21 2 83 2 Watson Year Team G Rec Yds Avg Yds/G Lng TD 20+ 40+ 1st FUM 2009 New England Patriots 16 29 404 13.9 25.2 36 5 5 0 20 0 2008 New England Patriots 14 22 209 9.5 14.9 29 2 1 0 12 1 2007 New England Patriots 12 36 389 10.8 32.4 35 6 7 0 21 1 2006 New England Patriots 13 49 643 13.1 49.5 40 3 10 2 32 3 2005 New England Patriots 15 29 441 15.2 29.4 35 4 10 0 22 1 2004 New England Patriots 1 2 16 8.0 16.0 14 0 0 0 1 0 TOTAL 71 167 2,102 12.6 29.6 40 20 33 2 108 6
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

    I'm not sure about the Olsen Watson comparison. Olsen to me is obviously younger and he has had more receptions in his third season than Watson has had. Of course Brady could make a guy like this look better. But I'm not exactly sold on him as a player as he is right now; he doesn't break many tackles and blocking is an issue. As for the blocking, I think he certainly has the size to improve to the point were he becomes adequite. Watson was not a great blocker at first either and is still not a dominating one.

    i think as a reciever Olsen has more potential long term than Watson; he's a bigger target and is a much more polished reciever than Watson ever will be.

    It's not like the guy running the team doesn't value tight ends, this is the same guy that threw a phone through a wall draft weekend, when his Browns missed out on Kyle Brady. The tight end is not involved in the passing game because we have had some of the best slot recievers in the game the past ten years (Brown and Welker) they run into alot of the areas that the tight end would run. without Welker I think you'll see more of the tight end this year in the offense.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : I'm not sure about the Olsen Watson comparison. Olsen to me is obviously younger and he has had more receptions in his third season than Watson has had. Of course Brady could make a guy like this look better. But I'm not exactly sold on him as a player as he is right now; he doesn't break many tackles and blocking is an issue. As for the blocking, I think he certainly has the size to improve to the point were he becomes adequite. Watson was not a great blocker at first either and is still not a dominating one. i think as a reciever Olsen has more potential long term than Watson; he's a bigger target and is a much more polished reciever than Watson ever will be. It's not like the guy running the team doesn't value tight ends, this is the same guy that threw a phone through a wall draft weekend, when his Browns missed out on Kyle Brady. The tight end is not involved in the passing game because we have had some of the best slot recievers in the game the past ten years (Brown and Welker) they run into alot of the areas that the tight end would run. without Welker I think you'll see more of the tight end this year in the offense.
    Posted by mthurl


    Apparently Gresham has not heard a thing from the Pats.  Here's the clear cut #1 most complete TE in the draft and not a peep from a team that has a pick around where Gresham is rated and until yesterday had ZERO TE talent.  Instead, there are reports that the Pats met with Hernandez and Pitta, two excellent receiving TEs but neither known for their blocking.  Either the Pats are setting a smoke screen or the, "If I wanted a TE to only catch I'd draft a WR" comments aren't true.  (these comments are more aimed at IQ)

    If the Pats had no interest in Olsen, there wouldn't be so many rumors out there. Perhaps BB has changed his mind after getting killed by Dallas Clark (who can't block a lick) year after year and now sees the value of a big guy with hands that are faster than LBs and Safeties.

     
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    IQ,

    I appreciate your research - good stuff.  Now, time will tell.  If we trade for Olsen or draft a receiving TE who doesn't block, we'll know.  The situation has changed in NE with the loss of Welker.  Edelman won't be catching 125 balls in 13 games.  Brady could really use a TE that can get open on the underneath routes.  Welker just couldn't be covered and Brady had it easy finding him.  Now he will need to spread the ball around a bit more.

    Without trying to address every point in your response, I think BB would love to move Adalius Thomas outside the conference.  I don't think AD is a bad player, I think he's in a system where he has struggled and been inconsistent.  I think he also has become a cancer in the locker room and worn out his welcome.  The Pats won't simply dump him because they don't think he's a bad player either.  If they thought that, they wouldn't have went out and signed him to such a lucrative long term deal.  Thomas was a proven success in Rex Ryan's defense and BB doesn't want to just give him a free pass to NY and watch an extremely motivated AD wreak havoc on him twice a year or at least risk having that kind of egg on his face should Thomas return to form.  BBs smart play is to get him out of the conference and get something of value in return.

    Sanders is a decent player and he is a BB type player.  He also is a valuable trading card because we are deep at the position.  Yes I would trade Sanders for Olsen because we don't have a receiving TE and this saves us a draft pick that can be used elsewhere.  Throwing in Thomas gets him out of the conference for 2 years and by then he'll be pushing 34 and less of an issue.

    Like you said, we can agree to disagree.  No hard feelings here my friend.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Apparently Gresham has not heard a thing from the Pats.  Here's the clear cut #1 most complete TE in the draft and not a peep from a team that has a pick around where Gresham is rated and until yesterday had ZERO TE talent.  Instead, there are reports that the Pats met with Hernandez and Pitta, two excellent receiving TEs but neither known for their blocking.  Either the Pats are setting a smoke screen or the, "If I wanted a TE to only catch I'd draft a WR" comments aren't true.  (these comments are more aimed at IQ) If the Pats had no interest in Olsen, there wouldn't be so many rumors out there. Perhaps BB has changed his mind after getting killed by Dallas Clark (who can't block a lick) year after year and now sees the value of a big guy with hands that are faster than LBs and Safeties.  
    Posted by Faucetman


    That's very possible Faucet. I only have history to go on. So for ALL the reasons I stated, we'll see. I'll have no hesitation if they trade for Olsen in offering you a mea culpa my friend.

    The last part of your statement are even more reason to me why it would make no sense. You can get an even younger guy to do a better job at what Olsen is good at in Hernandez and Pitta.

    Hernandez and Pitta have BOTH been compared to Dallas Clark in various scouting reports. The same guy you said, and I agree with, has killed the Pats in years past. No need to trade a guy and create another hole to fill when you can just draft a player that compares favorably with him.

    Dennis Pitta – TE – BYU: Pitta might end up being the highest drafted player from this game. He caught everything thrown near him and he looks very comfortable and smooth running his routes. Pitta reminds me of Dallas Clark the way he runs and catches ~Draft Breakdown

    Aaron Hernandez  TE/ H-Back  Florida 
    He is a good blocker in open space because of his overall athleticism. Aaron is a tougher, stronger and a little bit quicker version of Dallas Clark (TE - Colts). ~The Huddle Report.

    Also, at the time of the Olsen rumor it was speculated to be started by Olsen's agent because at the time two things happened. One, the Patriots were without any starting caliber TE's. Two, Martz had come out publicly and said they he does throw to the TE very much in his offensive system. It was said that Olsen got a case of the azz and asked his agent to request a trade for him.

    I am not sure the Patriots ever HAD any interest at all. They might have but I have read nothing to lend any credibility to that.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Apparently Gresham has not heard a thing from the Pats.  Here's the clear cut #1 most complete TE in the draft and not a peep from a team that has a pick around where Gresham is rated and until yesterday had ZERO TE talent.  Instead, there are reports that the Pats met with Hernandez and Pitta, two excellent receiving TEs but neither known for their blocking.  Either the Pats are setting a smoke screen or the, "If I wanted a TE to only catch I'd draft a WR" comments aren't true.  (these comments are more aimed at IQ) If the Pats had no interest in Olsen, there wouldn't be so many rumors out there. Perhaps BB has changed his mind after getting killed by Dallas Clark (who can't block a lick) year after year and now sees the value of a big guy with hands that are faster than LBs and Safeties.  
    Posted by Faucetman

    The only other way I think you could view that bit about Gresham besides possible smoke screen is the following...

    If the Patriots either do not have Gresham valued as a #22 pick OR they feel they have other "higher" priorities than TE with that #22 pick AND think he would be off the board before #44. Then they might not bother.

    I know you think there is a chance he slides all the way to #44 and I follow your logic , especially after Cleveland signed a TE but who knows what the Pats think. 

    Also my early comments about saying I was not sure all those TE's are gone before our #117 was based or your assertion that the first would not even come off the board until #44. That leaves only 73 draft slots for all 8 TE's, we've talked about in here, to go in before #117. (Gresham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Dickerson, Pitta, Graham, McCoy, Moeaki, And even Dickson)

    I certainly here you on Mr. Walking Infirmary Moeaki but I am not sure its a huge gamble as a late 4th rounder. That's if they opted to not use one of their 2nd's.

    You know I have stated on here many times I don't care who they take at TE or how they use them. Simply based on history they have attempted to get more complete TE's. At least if it was drafting up high.

    As mbeau had pointed out in past. They took D Thomas who was more of a receiver and the kid we cut out of camp and Minnesota signed away. Forgot his name. Both of those players were 3rd round or later though, if I'm not mistaken.



     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Starting to read some tea leaves my friends.  At #22 the Pats are going defense and I think pass rush.  I think they will target in this order.

    Graham
    Kindle
    Odrick
    Hughes

    This is just my gut feeling but based on who they are talking to and not talking to.  Assuming they don't trade for Olsen, I think they are going to do something like this:

    #22 DE/OLB Brandon Graham - size requirement waived for a special player who can get after the QB.  BB will consider that at worst Graham replaces Green, they are in nickel packages as often as a base 34 anyway.  At best Graham replaces Thomas and Green.  Either way, Dumervil shows that size isn't everything and this is a copy cat league.  Dumervil is 5-11, 248 and Graham is 6-1, 268.

    #44 WR Damiam Williams- The Pats appear interested.  Williams is very similar to Anquan Boldin but instead of giving up a 2nd round pick and paying a boat load of money, they draft the closest thing to him for the same 2nd round pick.  Williams had a solid year as a WR and returner with a freshman QB passing the ball around on the worst USC team in a decade.  I'm starting to come around on Williams.  He works hard, is a student of the game and while not blazing fast, he runs crisp routes and displays an intial bust to gain separation at the LOS.

    #48 TE Aaron Hernandez - BB will look to make up for the loss of Welker by giving Brady another weapon to exploit.

    #53 RB Montario Hardesty - SD spoils our Gerhart plans by trading up to #40 to get him.  They need a back that can carry the load and they have a scat back in Sproles.  My sources tell me they love Mathews but if he's gone at #28, Gerhart is their back up plans.  They are also dying for a run stuffing NT and would likely go Cody at #28 instead.  Hardesty has Patriot written all over him.  Team captain for 2 years, big ball security guy with soft hands.  Perfect fit.

    4th. FS Kam Chancellor - Pats look to find a real replacement for Rodney Harrison.  While I'm not going to suggest he has half the skills, he has the size to move to SS.  The pick allows us to deal Sanders or McGowan.

    6th OG Marshall Newhouse - I'd be all over him perhaps package a 7th to move up to get him. 

    We've given Brady three new weapons to play with, brought in the best pass rusher available, found a tough G as a hedge to losing Mankins and a hard hitting big safety.  I would sleep very good with this draft.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : The only other way I think you could view that bit about Gresham besides possible smoke screen is the following... If the Patriots either do not have Gresham valued as a #22 pick OR they feel they have other "higher" priorities than TE with that #22 pick AND think he would be off the board before #44. Then they might not bother. I know you think there is a chance he slides all the way to #44 and I follow your logic , especially after Cleveland signed a TE but who knows what the Pats think.  Also my early comments about saying I was not sure all those TE's are gone before our #117 was based or your assertion that the first would not even come off the board until #44. That leaves only 73 draft slots for all 8 TE's, we've talked about in here, to go in before #117. (Gresham, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Dickerson, Pitta, Graham, McCoy, Moeaki, And even Dickson) I certainly here you on Mr. Walking Infirmary Moeaki but I am not sure its a huge gamble as a late 4th rounder. That's if they opted to not use one of their 2nd's. You know I have stated on here many times I don't care who they take at TE or how they use them. Simply based on history they have attempted to get more complete TE's. At least if it was drafting up high. As mbeau had pointed out in past. They took D Thomas who was more of a receiver and the kid we cut out of camp and Minnesota signed away. Forgot his name. Both of those players were 3rd round or later though, if I'm not mistaken.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Not to argue but BB hasn't drafted a complete TE since he's been here.  Graham was a blocker, Watson a receiver but with bad hands.  Thomas was a receiver only and the guy your couldn't think of, Garrett Mills was also a hands guy/H Back.  So, I submit again, if BB was all about finding complete TEs, he sure doesn't seem to target them in the draft or F/A.  He even brings an extra OT in to block at times.  He uses players situationally a ton.  I rest my case:))
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Starting to read some tea leaves my friends.  At #22 the Pats are going defense and I think pass rush.  I think they will target in this order.

    Graham - Really not sure he makes it to us.
    Kindle
    Odrick
    Hughes - Not a fan that high.

    This is just my gut feeling but based on who they are talking to and not talking to.  Assuming they don't trade for Olsen, I think they are going to do something like this:

    #22 DE/OLB Brandon Graham - size requirement waived for a special player who can get after the QB.  BB will consider that at worst Graham replaces Green, they are in nickel packages as often as a base 34 anyway.  At best Graham replaces Thomas and Green.  Either way, Dumervil shows that size isn't everything and this is a copy cat league.  Dumervil is 5-11, 248 and Graham is 6-1, 268. Like the player. Feel he won't reach us but no issues if they take him here. I like the other 2 you have here also in Kindle and Odrick. Depending on the research they Patriots do I like Dunlap as an option here also. If they come away with the same confident feeling as they did with Merriweather then I am ok with him too.

    #44 WR Damiam Williams- The Pats appear interested.  Williams is very similar to Anquan Boldin but instead of giving up a 2nd round pick and paying a boat load of money, they draft the closest thing to him for the same 2nd round pick.  Williams had a solid year as a WR and returner with a freshman QB passing the ball around on the worst USC team in a decade.  I'm starting to come around on Williams.  He works hard, is a student of the game and while not blazing fast, he runs crisp routes and displays an intial bust to gain separation at the LOS.
    Like the player. Is he really back up this high again? My preference in this spot is to take the best 3-4 DE IF you take Graham, Kindle or Dunlap at #22. Take your pick. Alualu, Carrington, Houston, etc here. The Patriots D-Line was awful last year after Ty who grade out best, Wilfork was 2nd. There is a gigantic drop off to 3rd which was Mike Wright. Green was terrible last season as he graded out even behind pryor as well. They really need help up front.

    #48 TE Aaron Hernandez - BB will look to make up for the loss of Welker by giving Brady another weapon to exploit. Like the player and if they opt for one in the 2nd it doesn't mater to me if its here or #53.

    #53 RB Montario Hardesty - SD spoils our Gerhart plans by trading up to #40 to get him.  They need a back that can carry the load and they have a scat back in Sproles.  My sources tell me they love Mathews but if he's gone at #28, Gerhart is their back up plans.  They are also dying for a run stuffing NT and would likely go Cody at #28 instead.  Hardesty has Patriot written all over him.  Team captain for 2 years, big ball security guy with soft hands.  Perfect fit.
    Like the player but would not mind waiting until the 4th for a running back. If they take the DE at #44 then I would use this for the WR pick possibly.

    4th. FS Kam Chancellor - Pats look to find a real replacement for Rodney Harrison.  While I'm not going to suggest he has half the skills, he has the size to move to SS.  The pick allows us to deal Sanders or McGowan. Has been associated with the Patriots but don't know much about him. I have read however that he would likely be available later than here. You could use this for your RB if you took the WR at #53 or take your WR here is you left RB at #53.

    6th OG Marshall Newhouse - I'd be all over him perhaps package a 7th to move up to get him.  Had a good combine don't know much else. I think it depends on what they think of Ohrnberger. I also think they hang on to Mankins. If they like Ohrnberger its not a need. There are a lot of names thrown about and they could add depth just about anywhere so who knows.

    We've given Brady three new weapons to play with, brought in the best pass rusher available, found a tough G as a hedge to losing Mankins and a hard hitting big safety.  I would sleep very good with this draft.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Not to argue but BB hasn't drafted a complete TE since he's been here.  Graham was a blocker, Watson a receiver but with bad hands.  Thomas was a receiver only and the guy your couldn't think of, Garrett Mills was also a hands guy/H Back.  So, I submit again, if BB was all about finding complete TEs, he sure doesn't seem to target them in the draft or F/A.  He even brings an extra OT in to block at times.  He uses players situationally a ton.  I rest my case:))
    Posted by Faucetman


    Sorry but Graham WAS considered a complete TE. The Patriots made him a blocker ONLY.

    a quick clip from his combine workout.

    "Graham lit it up, catching the ball extremely well and running excellent routes. Graham solidified himself as the No. 1 or No. 2 tight end along with Miami's Jeremy Shockey." 

    Sorry no TE goes in the 1st round as a pure blocker.

    Here is another on Graham...

    "Graham is a receiving tight end in the mold of a Shannon Sharpe. His size, at 6-foot-3, 245 pounds, is more than adequate. Graham has plenty of speed to get down the field to go with quickness, great hands and in-line blocking ability. At Colorado, he was the go-to receiver, a rarity for a college tight end." ~Mel Kiper

    You are suffering revisionist history my friend after what the Patriots do to TE's.

    I won't bother looking up the same for Watson but I am sure he was considered more complete than one dimensional. 

    The other two I am assuming you misread or misunderstood me because I was saying that Thomas and Mills were H-back receiver types but they were not high draft picks. I guess the more important thing to gleam from this is that one H-back receiver type never made the team and the other barely ever cracked the lineup and was eventually traded away.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Patriots Will Work Out Jeff Owens

     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Apparently http://www.patspulpit.com/2010/3/19/1380995/new-england-patriots-to-look-at?ref=CBS has not heard a thing from the Pats.  Here's the clear cut #1 most complete TE in the draft and not a peep from a team that has a pick around where Gresham is rated and until yesterday had ZERO TE talent.  Instead, there are reports that the Pats met with Hernandez and Pitta, two excellent receiving TEs but neither known for their blocking.  Either the Pats are setting a smoke screen or the, "If I wanted a TE to only catch I'd draft a WR" comments aren't true.  (these comments are more aimed at IQ) If the Pats had no interest in Olsen, there wouldn't be so many rumors out there. Perhaps BB has changed his mind after getting killed by Dallas Clark (who can't block a lick) year after year and now sees the value of a big guy with hands that are faster than LBs and Safeties.  
    Posted by Faucetman


    here's my two takes on it, smoke screen or did their medical people see something in the combine medical that might have raised some red flags? 

    Who knows but they might also think where he is on their board is too high for him.
     
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    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    #22 DE/OLB Brandon Graham - size requirement waived for a special player who can get after the QB.  BB will consider that at worst Graham replaces Green, they are in nickel packages as often as a base 34 anyway.  At best Graham replaces Thomas and Green.  Either way, Dumervil shows that size isn't everything and this is a copy cat league.  Dumervil is 5-11, 248 and Graham is 6-1, 268.
    Like the pic, as IQ he might be picked right before the Pats 22nd.  He would be the starter on the weakside day 1.
    #44 WR Damiam Williams- The Pats appear interested.  Williams is very similar to Anquan Boldin but instead of giving up a 2nd round pick and paying a boat load of money, they draft the closest thing to him for the same 2nd round pick.  Williams had a solid year as a WR and returner with a freshman QB passing the ball around on the worst USC team in a decade.  I'm starting to come around on Williams.  He works hard, is a student of the game and while not blazing fast, he runs crisp routes and displays an intial bust to gain separation at the LOS.
    I like the pick, I have demayrius higher and should be gone by 44.  Williams will compete with Tate for #2.
    #48 TE Aaron Hernandez - BB will look to make up for the loss of Welker by giving Brady another weapon to exploit.
    I think here I would have picked a DE, we need help there.  Someone like Alualu or Houston, they need someone to set the edge and create some pass rush from the DE spot.

    #53 RB Montario Hardesty - SD spoils our Gerhart plans by trading up to #40 to get him.  They need a back that can carry the load and they have a scat back in Sproles.  My sources tell me they love Mathews but if he's gone at #28, Gerhart is their back up plans.  They are also dying for a run stuffing NT and would likely go Cody at #28 instead.  Hardesty has Patriot written all over him.  Team captain for 2 years, big ball security guy with soft hands.  Perfect fit.
    Like Hardesty love Tate, either is ok by me.  I think Tate is gone in the 2nd and Hardersty in the 3rd so end of 2nd they'll pull the trigger on a RB is they are taking one.
    4th. FS Kam Chancellor - Pats look to find a real replacement for Rodney Harrison.  While I'm not going to suggest he has half the skills, he has the size to move to SS.  The pick allows us to deal Sanders or McGowan.
    He will not be there in the 4th, he has been getting more and more attention.  I've been talking about him for a while now and would love to see this move. 
    6th OG Marshall Newhouse - I'd be all over him perhaps package a 7th to move up to get him. 
    Will Baker OT should be the pick here, the team has Ohr and Bussey.  The OL coaches were extremely high on Bussey last year.  He was on IR his rookie season but I think he will be Neal's replacement.  Baker OT from Virginia is a RT who is tough, hard worker and will help in the running game.  Looks like Light sticks around so Baker can sit and learn this year and take over RT next year while Voll moves to L.
    We've given Brady three new weapons to play with, brought in the best pass rusher available, found a tough G as a hedge to losing Mankins and a hard hitting big safety.  I would sleep very good with this draft.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6 : Not to argue but BB hasn't drafted a complete TE since he's been here.  Graham was a blocker, Watson a receiver but with bad hands.  Thomas was a receiver only and the guy your couldn't think of, Garrett Mills was also a hands guy/H Back.  So, I submit again, if BB was all about finding complete TEs, he sure doesn't seem to target them in the draft or F/A.  He even brings an extra OT in to block at times.  He uses players situationally a ton.  I rest my case:))
    Posted by Faucetman


    Graham was very much considered a complete tight end when they drafted him. This was the highest rated TE in the draft or on par with Shockey, Mike Holmgren was devastated when the pats took him, if you remember. I personally can remember how smooth he was catching the ball, he was considered to be one of the most natural pass catcher to come out in years. Then he gets to the NFL and his hands turn to stone, this is a reason why I think a guy like Olsen makes sense, because you never really know how any of these guys will do in the NFL. At least Olsen has a body of work to build on in the NFL.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rebels1520. Show rebels1520's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    the way i look at it... Pats feel no need to bring in Gresham

    Unquestion #1 TE on the board.... if they want him at 22 they know what he brings to the table. No need to show their true interest in a guy like him
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    the way i look at it... Pats feel no need to bring in Gresham Unquestion #1 TE on the board.... if they want him at 22 they know what he brings to the table. No need to show their true interest in a guy like him
    Posted by rebels1520

    True, if they had interest they probably are not going to tip there hand. I just hope they don't draft him, because we have so many other needs. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Either that . . . or . ..  .

    NE won't use a 1st rounder on a TE when they have other targets in mind. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    With the Sanders talks going to Chicago for Olsen I was thinking they would also have interest in Light.  This mock is based on a trade for Olsen and a 4th for Light and Sanders.  I am also going to try to stay away from some names we've been mentioning a lot here.  See if I can come up with other guys.

    #22 Demaryius Thomas WR 6'3" 224- Only true knock on this kid is his route running because of GT's offense.  He has strong hands, size and speed.  I know the Pats have not picked a WR in the 1st since Terry Glenn? but this kid gives them a #2 and a #1 after moss leaves.
    #44 Jahvid Best RB 5'10" 200he can run between the tackles, take it outside, be a KR.  He can do it all, will give the Pats a weapon in the running game and passing game.  Will learn from Faulk and Taylor this year.
    #48 Rodger Saffold OT 6'5" 316we need a RT, Saffold started 41 of 42 games at LT.  He wins the RT spot over Katzur, again this is under the thought Light is traded to the Bears.
    #53 Lamarr Houston DE 6'3" 305 he adds a starter to the DL, he will add a pass rusher from the DE spot while setting the edge against the run.
    #120 Andre Roberts WR 5'11" need depth at WR, he will man the slot spot opposite Edelman and WW (once he's back) high character kid, military school.  BB loves military school guys.  Great route runner and speed to match.
    #143 (my pick from assuming Light trades to Chicago) Lonyae Miller RB 6'0" 221he becomes the big back, in 2011 we get the earth and fire, Best and Miller give the Pats a pair of backs they have not had since Dillon and Faulk.
    #193 Daniel Te'O Nesheim OLB 6'4" 263 can't get away from this guy and a 6th rounder might not get it done.  Will be able to help in the pass rush.
    #233 Danny Batten OLB 6'3" 250 adds depth, he is a solid player who can benefit from sitting behind some guys and learning the position.  Is good against the run and also pass rush, can develop into a nice weak side LB. 
    #235 Jameson Konz FB/RB/WR/TE/HB 6'4" 234 After running a 4.43 and with all the different things he can do he might be more of a 5th rounder by draft day but this kid is too versatile to pass up.

    Couldn't get away from some of the regulars on my mocks but added some differnt positions and players
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    #22 Demaryius Thomas WR 6'3" 224- Only true knock on this kid is his route running because of GT's offense.  He has strong hands, size and speed.  I know the Pats have not picked a WR in the 1st since Terry Glenn? but this kid gives them a #2 and a #1 after moss leaves.
    #44 Jahvid Best RB 5'10" 200he can run between the tackles, take it outside, be a KR.  He can do it all, will give the Pats a weapon in the running game and passing game.  Will learn from Faulk and Taylor this year.
    #48 Rodger Saffold OT 6'5" 316we need a RT, Saffold started 41 of 42 games at LT.  He wins the RT spot over Katzur, again this is under the thought Light is traded to the Bears.
    #53 Lamarr Houston DE 6'3" 305 he adds a starter to the DL, he will add a pass rusher from the DE spot while setting the edge against the run.
    #120 Andre Roberts WR 5'11" need depth at WR, he will man the slot spot opposite Edelman and WW (once he's back) high character kid, military school.  BB loves military school guys.  Great route runner and speed to match.

    You could end the draft here and with Olsen on board, I love this!!!!  If Saffold shows he is ready day 1, Vollmer moves over to RT and Kaz backs up.  Thomas, Olsen and Best will tear it up and Roberts has to wait a year until Moss leaves to get much PT.  I think Roberts will be a very good WR in this leaue.  I can't imagine a scarier offense than this.  Good lord, it's 2007 all over again.  Well done.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Guys, how do we bash a player like Light, then when we want to trade him expect insane return on him?  Olsen is worth a 2nd rd pick.  Light maybe a 4th, sanders maybe a 4th to 5th.  If we are considering trades, make them close to real.  Plus I want to keep Sanders.  He is the current glue in our secondary.  He will never be great, but makes the rest of them better.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Either that . . . or . ..  . NE won't use a 1st rounder on a TE when they have other targets in mind. 
    Posted by zbellino


    I tend to agree with zb.  TEs haven't been playing a huge part in NE offenses during the Brady era.  I expect the Pats to wait until the 2nd or 4th round.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    Latest attempt at a mock.  We can get our DT later in the draft.

    PKRD 1NeedsSelection
    1STLQB   OG   DE   CB   WR   DT   OLB  Sam Bradford
    2DETDE   OG   RB   S   DT   KNdamukong Suh
    3TBWR   OT   DE   OLB   SS   CB   OG  Russell Okung
    4WSHOT   OG   QB   RB   WR   SS   KJimmy Clausen
    5KCOT   SS   DT   CB   WR   OLB   ILB  Gerald McCoy
    6SEAOG   OT   WR   ILB   FS   CB   RB  Bryan Bulaga
    7CLEQB   DE   OG   OT   WR   ILB   CB  Derrick Morgan
    8OAKOG   WR   QB   OT   DE   SS  Eric Berry
    9BUFOT   QB   DT   WR   OLB   OG   FS  Trent Williams
    10DENWR   DT   ILB   TE   DE   OG   CDan Williams
    11JAXDE   WR   CB   OG   OC   FS   DT  Dez Bryant
    12MIAFS   DT   OLB   DE   OG   C   WRJason Pierre-Paul
    13SFOG   SS   CB   DT   DE   QB  Anthony Davis
    14SEAOG   OT   WR   FS   CB   RB  C.J. Spiller
    15NYGCB   FS   ILB   OT   OLB   DT   SS  Rolando McClain
    16TENDT   DE   ILB   OLB   C   WR   CB  Brandon Graham
    17SFOG   SS   CB   DT   DE   QB  Joe Haden
    18PITOT   OG   CB   C   DT   DE   ILB  Mike Iupati
    19ATLOG   DT   OLB   WR   DE   KGolden Tate
    20HOUOG   RB   DT   CB   OLB   FS   WR  Earl Thomas
    21CINDE   OLB   OG   DT   FB   TE  Carlos Dunlap
    22NEOLB   ILB   WR   TE   DT DE RBRyan Mathews
    23GBOT   CB   OG   OLB   ILB   SS   WR  Sergio Kindle
    24PHIOG   CB   FS   ILB   RB   DT   KTaylor Mays
    25BALCB   C   DE   ILB   DT   OLB  Maurkice Pouncey
    26ARICB   OT   OLB   DE   TE   OG   QB  Kyle Wilson
    27DALOT   OG   DE   ILB   FS   SS   KBruce Campbell
    28SDDT   RB   OG   S   ILB   DE   TE  Terrence Cody
    29NYJWR   DT   DE   OG   SS   OT   RB  Jared Odrick
    30MINCB   ILB   OG   SS   QB   DT   OT  Devin McCourty
    31INDDT   CB   C   WR   FS   K   OT  Brian Price
    32NOOT   OLB   SS   DE   OG   K   TE  Sean Weatherspoon
     RD 2  
    33STLOG   DE   CB   WR   DT   OLB  Everson Griffen
    34DETDE   OG   RB   S   KJahvid Best
    35TBWR   DE OLB   SS   CB   OG  Corey Wootton
    36KCOT   CB   WR   OLB   ILB  DeMaryius Thomas
    37WSHOT   OG   RB   WR   SS   KCharles Brown
    38CLEQB   OG   OT   WR   ILB   CB  Rodger Saffold
    39OAKOG   WR   QB   OT   DE   SS  Ricky Sapp
    40SDDT   RB   OG   S   ILB   DE   TE  Toby Gerhart
    41BUFOT   DT   WR   OLB   OG   FS  Tim Tebow
    42TBWR   OLB   SS   CB   OG  Brandon LaFell
    43MIAFS   DT   OLB   OG   C   WRArrelious Benn
    44NEOLB   ILB   WR   TE   DT DEJermaine Gresham
    45DENWR   ILB   TE   DE   OG   CRob Gronkowski
    46NYGCB   FS   OT   OLB   DT   SS  Patrick Robinson
    47CARWR   QB   DE   DT   TE   CB   OLB  Colt McCoy
    48NEOLB   ILB   WR   DT  DEJerry Hughes
    49SFOG   SS   DT   DE   QB  Alex Carrington
    50KCOT   CB   OLB   ILB  Daryl Washington
    51HOUOG   RB   DT   CB   OLB   WR  Jonathan Dwyer
    52PITOT   CB   C   DT   DE   ILB  Tyson Alualu
    53NEILB   WR   DT  DEDamian Williams
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    With NO trades....

    #1 Graham/Kindle/Dunlap
    #2a Best
    #2b TE of choice Hernandez/Gronkowski(what will his pro day reveal?)
    #2c DE of choice Alualu/Carrington/Houston/etc.
    #4 WR of choice (not sure who's on the board Roberts, white, Cooper, Shipley, Decker)
    #6 and #7's best players avail on the Pats boards where they need depth

    The trade possibilities are to fluid and I don't know other teams needs or "types" of players they look for to attempt it AND make the arguments why it makes sense.

    OR

    #1 Odrick
    #2a TE of choice Hernandez/Gronowski (under Faucets scenario even Gresham)
    #2b OLB of choice Misi/Sapp
    #2c WR of choice Williams/Gilyard
    #4 RB of choice
    #6 and #7's best players avail on the Pats boards where they need depth
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    Latest attempt at a mock.  We can get our DT later in the draft. PK RD 1 Needs Selection 1 STL QB   OG   DE   CB   WR   DT   OLB   Sam Bradford 2 DET DE   OG   RB   S   DT   K Ndamukong Suh 3 TB WR   OT   DE   OLB   SS   CB   OG   Russell Okung 4 WSH OT   OG   QB   RB   WR   SS   K Jimmy Clausen 5 KC OT   SS   DT   CB   WR   OLB   ILB   Gerald McCoy 6 SEA OG   OT   WR   ILB   FS   CB   RB   Bryan Bulaga 7 CLE QB   DE   OG   OT   WR   ILB   CB   Derrick Morgan 8 OAK OG   WR   QB   OT   DE   SS   Eric Berry 9 BUF OT   QB   DT   WR   OLB   OG   FS   Trent Williams 10 DEN WR   DT   ILB   TE   DE   OG   C Dan Williams 11 JAX DE   WR   CB   OG   OC   FS   DT   Dez Bryant 12 MIA FS   DT   OLB   DE   OG   C   WR Jason Pierre-Paul 13 SF OG   SS   CB   DT   DE   QB   Anthony Davis 14 SEA OG   OT   WR   FS   CB   RB   C.J. Spiller 15 NYG CB   FS   ILB   OT   OLB   DT   SS   Rolando McClain 16 TEN DT   DE   ILB   OLB   C   WR   CB   Brandon Graham 17 SF OG   SS   CB   DT   DE   QB   Joe Haden 18 PIT OT   OG   CB   C   DT   DE   ILB   Mike Iupati 19 ATL OG   DT   OLB   WR   DE   K Golden Tate 20 HOU OG   RB   DT   CB   OLB   FS   WR   Earl Thomas 21 CIN DE   OLB   OG   DT   FB   TE   Carlos Dunlap 22 NE OLB   ILB   WR   TE   DT DE RB Ryan Mathews 23 GB OT   CB   OG   OLB   ILB   SS   WR   Sergio Kindle 24 PHI OG   CB   FS   ILB   RB   DT   K Taylor Mays 25 BAL CB   C   DE   ILB   DT   OLB   Maurkice Pouncey 26 ARI CB   OT   OLB   DE   TE   OG   QB   Kyle Wilson 27 DAL OT   OG   DE   ILB   FS   SS   K Bruce Campbell 28 SD DT   RB   OG   S   ILB   DE   TE   Terrence Cody 29 NYJ WR   DT   DE   OG   SS   OT   RB   Jared Odrick 30 MIN CB   ILB   OG   SS   QB   DT   OT   Devin McCourty 31 IND DT   CB   C   WR   FS   K   OT   Brian Price 32 NO OT   OLB   SS   DE   OG   K   TE   Sean Weatherspoon   RD 2     33 STL OG   DE   CB   WR   DT   OLB   Everson Griffen 34 DET DE   OG   RB   S   K Jahvid Best 35 TB WR   DE OLB   SS   CB   OG   Corey Wootton 36 KC OT   CB   WR   OLB   ILB   DeMaryius Thomas 37 WSH OT   OG   RB   WR   SS   K Charles Brown 38 CLE QB   OG   OT   WR   ILB   CB   Rodger Saffold 39 OAK OG   WR   QB   OT   DE   SS   Ricky Sapp 40 SD DT   RB   OG   S   ILB   DE   TE   Toby Gerhart 41 BUF OT   DT   WR   OLB   OG   FS   Tim Tebow 42 TB WR   OLB   SS   CB   OG   Brandon LaFell 43 MIA FS   DT   OLB   OG   C   WR Arrelious Benn 44 NE OLB   ILB   WR   TE   DT DE Jermaine Gresham 45 DEN WR   ILB   TE   DE   OG   C Rob Gronkowski 46 NYG CB   FS   OT   OLB   DT   SS   Patrick Robinson 47 CAR WR   QB   DE   DT   TE   CB   OLB   Colt McCoy 48 NE OLB   ILB   WR   DT   DE Jerry Hughes 49 SF OG   SS   DT   DE   QB   Alex Carrington 50 KC OT   CB   OLB   ILB   Daryl Washington 51 HOU OG   RB   DT   CB   OLB   WR   Jonathan Dwyer 52 PIT OT   CB   C   DT   DE   ILB   Tyson Alualu 53 NE ILB   WR   DT   DE Damian Williams
    Posted by Faucetman

    Faucet I really question how little you value the DE spot in a 3-4. 

    Seymour still gone.

    Green was ok last year in a starting role and he was a 4th round pick and considered a guy they hit on at that late a round. He's gone too.

    Wright was a UDFA and a very good backup but again he isn't a quality season long starter. 

    Pryor same thing, played well and above his raft round but still graded out significantly behind even wright. 

    I have no idea what they thought of Brace but we all saw the same thing last season with regards to Brace's limited opportunities.

     I know its considered a good class at the position but I am not sure they are talking starting quality into the 4th, 5th , 6th rounds. I do not believe that is what they mean.

    Bottom line is right now we do NOT have a legitimate starting RDE to replace Seymour or even Green. This draft is considered a good one for DL but you also have an increasing number of teams looking for 3-4 DE's now which may or may not offset some of that supposed DL depth.

    I still believe you have to build from the line out and therefore need a top DE in the draft.

    IMO.

    Pats DE's in the 3-4 alignment last season...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthurl. Show mthurl's posts

    Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6

    In Response to Re: 2010 Mock Rounds 1-6:
    With the Sanders talks going to Chicago for Olsen I was thinking they would also have interest in Light.  This mock is based on a trade for Olsen and a 4th for Light and Sanders.  I am also going to try to stay away from some names we've been mentioning a lot here.  See if I can come up with other guys. #22 Demaryius Thomas WR 6'3" 224 - Only true knock on this kid is his route running because of GT's offense.  He has strong hands, size and speed.  I know the Pats have not picked a WR in the 1st since Terry Glenn? but this kid gives them a #2 and a #1 after moss leaves. #44 Jahvid Best RB 5'10" 200 he can run between the tackles, take it outside, be a KR.  He can do it all, will give the Pats a weapon in the running game and passing game.  Will learn from Faulk and Taylor this year. #48 Rodger Saffold OT 6'5" 316 we need a RT, Saffold started 41 of 42 games at LT.  He wins the RT spot over Katzur, again this is under the thought Light is traded to the Bears. #53 Lamarr Houston DE 6'3" 305 he adds a starter to the DL, he will add a pass rusher from the DE spot while setting the edge against the run. #120 Andre Roberts WR 5'11" need depth at WR, he will man the slot spot opposite Edelman and WW (once he's back) high character kid, military school.  BB loves military school guys.  Great route runner and speed to match. #143 (my pick from assuming Light trades to Chicago) Lonyae Miller RB 6'0" 221 he becomes the big back, in 2011 we get the earth and fire, Best and Miller give the Pats a pair of backs they have not had since Dillon and Faulk. #193 Daniel Te'O Nesheim OLB 6'4" 263 can't get away from this guy and a 6th rounder might not get it done.  Will be able to help in the pass rush. #233 Danny Batten OLB 6'3" 250 adds depth, he is a solid player who can benefit from sitting behind some guys and learning the position.  Is good against the run and also pass rush, can develop into a nice weak side LB.  #235 Jameson Konz FB/RB/WR/TE/HB 6'4" 234 After running a 4.43 and with all the different things he can do he might be more of a 5th rounder by draft day but this kid is too versatile to pass up. Couldn't get away from some of the regulars on my mocks but added some differnt positions and players
    Posted by Pats7393


    I like this draft, however the problem with the pick at 22 is if the kid has trouble with routes, it will be a problem. I think this coach and QB value route running alot more than anyone could imagine. How many guys that didn't run the routes pricisely have you seen Brady completely ignore in this offense?
    Best I think is to good to be  around at 44. You said it yourself, he can do it all and I agree. Well known backs that can do it all don't last very long in the draft. 
     

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