2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wingman23. Show Wingman23's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    joe mcknight should be graded in the mid rounds 3-4.  But i can see someone being blown away by his speed at the combine and end up grabbing him in the middle of the 2nd round.  But if he drops to the 3rd or 4th round He would be a great guy to take a chance on. 
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowlick316. Show cowlick316's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    z mentioned earlier what i have been thinking all along. we should sign a free agent to replace seymour for this season (he suggested spears/i still like peppers). then, we use the oakland pick next year to draft a replacement for the future. by this time, there should be a new rookie salary structure in place that would allow us to lock up an elite defensive lineman for years to come. 
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Hey ya'll--

    If we could get 2 out of the 3 of Sergio Kindle/Brandon Spikes/Jermaine Gresham I will be thrilled! Personally I'm sick of trading our picks for the future...Brady is getting older and it all starts and ends with him, plus how long does BB want to coach?

    Sergio Kindle OLB/DE hybrid possesses the type of versatility that BB values in an OLB/DE hybrid. He looked great in the National title game vs. Bama I thought and I think his stock will continue to rise. He's kind of a modern version of McGinnest. Here's a link on him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lCQDH8hcWs&feature=related

    If Gresham slips to us in the 2nd round I would be thrilled. He's Ben Coatesque!

    I would sign Deion Branch to be our #3 WR...he already knows the system/Brady and could be had for reasonable money.

    O-Line needs HELP! I like Vollmer, Mankins & Koppen, but after that??? Hopefully Ohrnberger develops and there is an FA that we can plug in.

    I would resign Wilfork/Mankins/Bodden...and roll with our secondary as long as we can improve our pass rush, which Kindle would.

    I agree Guyton is a 3rd down guy...he gets thrown around on run plays. Maroney is gone. I like the idea of plugging a vet in on the D Line as we wait to replace Seymour with the 2011 1st rounder from OAK.

    Frickin love this thread!
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from arodrambone. Show arodrambone's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Yeah, I love this thread too.

    Kindle looks nice, and we'd be lucky to land him, but I think Brandon Graham of Michigan might be a better fit if we don't find a powerhouse replacement for Seymour this year. We would need more edge setting from our LBs, and Graham fits the bill in a huge way, while also being able to rush the passer and serve as an exceptional 4-3 DE.


    Tough call, lots of great prospects. I just hope the Pats D becomes intimidating again.

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from cowlick316. Show cowlick316's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    i agree that gresham would be a steal in the second round. after missing this past season, it is entirely possible that he falls into the second. this guy is a beast. and he would open up the offense for guys like moss, welker, and edelman to work. this is exactly what the offense needs, not another wide receiver. sure, another wr wouldn't hurt (i wouldn't be upset with boldin), but getting a guy like this would benefit the whole offense more. remember when we actually used to throw to the tight end? and ran screens (for that matter)?!
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    My vote so far is :
    Hughes in the 1st
    M. Pouncey OG
    Dwyer Rb
    Kindle OLB all in the 2nd
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ohyes. Show ohyes's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Most of us think that trading up to get a player we think we can't go forward without won't happen. So here's a link to some lower rd players on the rise.

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheCommittee. Show TheCommittee's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    arod that was a great video on Kindle that you found. I took away a few things from that video:

    1). Kindle is much more effective standing up, without his hand on the ground. When he doesn't have to come out of that stance, he is able to take a few extra steps and build up some serious power. When he has those few extra steps, he is nigh unblockable; give him 3 or 4 seconds, and he'll be in the QB's face. He certainly has the speed to become a great edge-rusher, but he doesn't have the elite power to come out of a DE stance and overwhelm a lineman. Thankfully, he won't be lining up like a DE too often in Belichick's scheme.

    2). Kindle has the athleticism and the awareness to play OLB in Belichick's 3-4 scheme. There aren't that many videos of Kindle dropping back in coverage, but the few plays that I saw him in spy coverage really struck me. Even though they weren't pass plays, Kindle was able to come from between the hashmarks and stuff the run in the flats, without much help from anyone else. That really impressed me.

    Overall, I would have no complaints if the Pats grabbed Kindle with their first four picks. I would hope that the first four picks go something like this:

    1 (#22): Sergio Kindle - OLB - Texas
    2 (#44): Jared Odrick - DE/DT - Penn State
    2 (#47): Jermaine Gresham - TE - Oklahoma
    2 (#53): Brandon Spikes - ILB - Florida*

    *I wouldn't mind Spikes in round 2, but I have reason to believe that one of the four picks will be an offensive lineman. The reason I didn't include one is because of free agency, and how that might impact who stays and who goes. If Light is not re-signed, then RT (because Vollmer will probably fill in at LT) becomes a need, unless Belichick has confidence in Kazcur. RG will also need to be adressed at some point, because Neal might not be here next year.
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    To TheCommittee...

    If we grabbed Kindle, Odrick, Gresham and Spikes in that order, it would be a miracle. Don't get me wrong, would love it if happened, but don't know if Gresham and Spikes slip that far down into the 2nd round. 

    Also...are you considering our FA strategy here? Meaning, perhaps the Pats are targeting a FA ILB/OLB, to provide the experience but also the leadership. I like Mayo, but I still think he needs time to mature both technically and from a leadership perspective. This is why a guy like Karlos Dansby would be nice next to Mayo, with McKenzie as back-up (although McKenzie I think is light to play ILB).

    If we let AD walk or possibly trade....that leaves us with no quality starting players at OLB. This is why I think the Kindle pick makes sense. Perhaps crazy, but what about drafting 2 OLB/DE types. Kindle and Hughes, or perhaps Kindle round 1, and pick up a guy like Eric Norwood in Round 4 if he slips that far. 


  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jaws213. Show jaws213's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Most important position on the field, QB. Hoping there is some way they can get Tebow to groom as heir to Brady. Smart and upstanding player which Pats covet. Also for the first couple of years he could come in for 8 - 10 plays a game running the wildcat or some version of it which the Pats don't have.
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from adam4522. Show adam4522's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    LB, OL(OG especially), DL with the first 3 picks, in whatever order gives the most "value".  We need 2 LB's, if not 3, in draft and FA.  We also need RB in draft.  WR in FA.  CB latter in draft. 
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    I would be shocked if we picked Tebow with all of the other needs we have, unless he fell to the 4th round and even then....? Brandon Graham looks like a beast, but he's a 4-3 guy no?  Part of what impresses me about Kindle, beyond his versatility, is his motor and unwillingness to give up on a play. Plus he looks to have the length to get in the passing lanes. I haven't really checked out Ricky Sapp yet, Kindle's my guy so far.
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Tebow?!  He will be an average player but why draft him when there are so many needs as it has been stated already.

    The guy is a leader and brings a great work ethic but that was with kids his own age not in a locker room of older players.  He will end up with Jags, more than a playmaker they need a ticket seller and tebow will be that for them.

    The Pats need to concentrate on good FAs, OLB, DE and DT, OL (RT RG maybe center), 1 or 2 TEs, 2 RBs (Laura gone), 2 CBs if they sign Bodden (the 2 W experiment is over), and a MLB FA/draft one in middle rounds.  With all these needs tebow is not even on the draft board.
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Guys I am so happy you are back in action gearing up for the draft.  I read page one and moved to page ten, so happy to see some of the same names from last year.  Forgive me if you have covered this, I think some have already but...

    1)  When we were winning super bowls we were a control offense that managed
         the game with ball control running.  We usually featured a big back that could
         ground out the yards and gain one or two yards in critical short yardage
         situations.  This game especially became more noticable when weather got
         cold, icy, snowy, etc.  Somewhere we fell in love with the pass and it works
         fine on the teams we can beat easily, but not on the elite teams and in the
         playoffs.  We've got to be able to control the ball.  We need a big, power
         running back, a blocking tight end, pass catching tight end, and tall,  ball
         control wide receiver.

    2)  We also had a ball control defense:  we had enough playmakers so that
         eventually the other team would make a mistake, but definitely by the time
         they got to the red zone where we would clamp down or give up a field goal.
         I think some of the young player players are just growing up and will be fine.
         I like all the suggestions on D that you guys are coming up with, however I
         think the running back has got to come before some of the D choices, not
         the other way around.  How about the kid from Stanford?  I think he's pro-
         jected to go in the 2nd round.  Also, I don't think you want the kid from Cal.
         He's not the power back we need.

    3)  I think trading down works sometimes and we actually got a couple of players 
         that will be successful, Butler, Vollmer,etc.. however we don't have enough   
         playmakers anymore and I'm not for trading down.  Look at some players
         we didn't draft last year and how they could have helped us.
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    I personally see trading down a few spots as something that is certainly possible... perhaps netting a third round selection.

    It depends on what is left at #22, which is almost like a turning point in this draft. My guess is that BPA would be someone like Gresham.

    But in reality, most of the players people keep mentioning, Dunlap, Best, Kindle, etc, will be gone by then. 

    I would rather NE trade down a few spots, grab a MONSTER guard like Vladimir Ducasse, and bank a third rounder to make up for the Burgess mistake.  
  16. This post has been removed.

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    If this team only was one player away from the SB I could see trading up to get that need but this team has a need at every position accross the board from CBs to WR, OL and DL, LBs RBs the only one I think is set is safeties and I think even then you can upgrade McGowan.

    So why give up picks for one stud (so called)?  Need play makers all over.
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ush. Show ush's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    I agree...moving up ain't happenin. Much more likely to move down and pick up a 3rd rounder.

    Z-- You think Kindle will be gone by 22 huh? What about Jerry Hughes or Brandon Graham? And how do you think the latter two fit what we try to do?
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from garytx. Show garytx's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    McClain seems to be kinda high right now.  A top 15.  Of course the season is young and things could change dramatically.  My hopes are on Kindle hanging around.  I thought he was going to go up the charts.
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from schwank. Show schwank's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Hey Zb....thoughts....

    Having had a couple weeks to think about this....I had at first been on the bandwagon to "end the trading down for value concept".  Now I'm not so sure they will will do an about face.  They will do what they always do ....identify those 15 to 20 guys they feel will "fit" best with their system and draft them accordingly at their appropriate slot.  Maybe this year a guy they target falls in the 20-25th pick range and they keep it.  The pundits will say they changed the philosophy when it's the same.  (They just don't trade down for shets and giggles.) 

    That said, the team is evolving from the "team that is there and needs to add the bit players" to a team that needs to add a couple of key potential future "core" players to the mix.  To me a "core" guy can be anyone/any position that will be around 5-7 years.  The OL in the middle may be a need.  WR depth.  TE.  Certainly DL and ILB AND OLB.  CB is a need.  I think safety is fine in terms of depth and age. 

    On another note.....we had what? 4 2nd rounders last year....Chung, Butler, Brace and Vollmer.  I think at the outset, if you had to bet, Chung, Brace, and Bulter would have been the ones that would succeed with Vollmer the long shot. 

    At this point (it's still early) Vollmer is the leader in the clubhouse.  Chung seems to developing like Merriweather did....one step at a time.  Butler has the tools, though (maybe wishfull) I thought he would have emerged as a solid starter by week 10 or so.  Maybe he's on that pace.  The only disappointment (and big time) is Brace. 

    I read the comparison that Wilfork wasn't that great his first year...maybe so ... I can't recall....but I don't remember him being manhandled the way Brace is.  Maybe Brace needs to simply hit the weights????  But I spent alot of those games in which he played...the Bufflao game et al....and watched as he was pulled in favor of Mike Wright after the initial series.  That is scary.  He should be at his strongest in the beginning.  Maybe Smerlas is right that he had some sort of injury, but don't they have to list it???  I never saw him listed. 

    My (long winded) point is .... if they trade down for value don't mess it up.  I guess 3 out of 4 (successes) so far is good.  But I prefer drafting a "Mayo".   A guy that walks in right away.  Also, other teams find these guys.....3-4 rounds (I guess we got ours in Edelman)...we need a better success rate there as well.  So far last years draft was better than the previous 3.  We're seeing the decay because of those lesser drafts.

    One last point, Smerlas and company insist that we need to find the "all around" defensive guy.  Translation:   That we have too many one dimensional guys on the current defense.  For example:  Warren is run DE.  Wilfork in run defender (but I will defer in this case that you need this kind of player to make a 3-4 work.  The nose is not typically a pass rusher...he is supposed to be a run stuffer.)  The OLB/DE/Elephant position guys ...Tully, Burgess, etc. are pass rushers ....although at seasons end (not the playoff) Burgess made alot of tackles.  Problem was that those guys could not set the edge.  Vrable was good at that.  Guyton is one dimensional guy.  A good 3rd down LB with his speed..get's pushed around vs the run.  Maybe, he will be better, when Mayo is fully healthy again.  But again I'd rather have aguy in their whose success/strength is based on his own ability not the ability of the team around him....example:  Bart Scott....he played with Ray Lewis....certainly he was better because of that.....but he was ALSO..able to do it on his own as exhibited by hsi play with the Jets.

    Nuff said....just draft better!!!
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ultrabop. Show ultrabop's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    How about  just draft the most highly rated player at any position when each round comes up? If you can't use a certain player, because maybe you have a Brady at that position, then you use him as trade bait. Draft for need only if there is a standoff between two players.

    That's what worked for the Celts. Collect the chips and trade.
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    This isnt Basketball Ultrabop.  It would be a waste to draft a QB, u cant trade him for anything, unless he shows off his skills and plays.  So unless Brady goes down, we would have wasted a pick, so that is horrible logic.
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    I largely agree with what you are saying, but all in all, the only player you could argue the Pats really passed on last season was Michael Oher, and they picked up Vollmer.

    The OLB Mathews had the exact same number of sacks as TBC last season. Finding situational pass rushers is not too difficult in the NFL, and that is all Mathews is. RM was ok, and might help NE a little, but is far from the answer for that defense.

    The problem, with last year's and this year's draft, is that NE keeps picking right at that point where the truly elite prospects (note: prospects, not talent, as talent is only proven in the NFL) are off the table.

    So the HR hitter you are talking about needs to arrive from the second or low first, unless NE wants to trade up.

    Trading up only ups that chances that they get "that guy."

    So reframing that logic, would you rather take two 25% chances at an all around guy, while increasing the odds that you get at least one servicable player exponentially, or take one 60% chance that you get that all around talent, while increasing total bust potential on an order of magnitude.

    Stop, recouch this in terms of players:

    Mamula had a ridiculously high ceiling an busted. Philly swapped a 12th overall  AND a pair of second-rounders for Tampa's 7th overall to get Mamula.

    The Iggles got a bust who had higher potential.

    TB got Derrick Brooks and Warren Sapp, neither of which were regarded as blue chip players that draft.

    IT is about two things: who can work in YOUR system, and what is the talent curve in the draft. This year, there are some blue chips, and a thin round one, with a very long tail at some spots into round two.

    This is like last season, but with more blue chippers, IMO.

    However, the true elite prospects will likely be gone by #22.

    So the choice is . . . . I don't know.

    My gut feeling is that staying put at #22 means taking an OT, because it is the only spot of need where the talent might still be there. Unless OTs push up the board for this very reason (NEED) and maybe a top fifteen player falls through the cracks (perhaps  a Kindle or McClain). . .but that almost never happens.

    So you will likely be thinking about the second best RB in a poor RB draft, or the fourth best OT in a great OT draft, or the second best WR or CB is deep but bottom heavy drafts, or reaching for a DE a little ahead of where he could go.

    I don't know, but my gut would just say take the best player that is needed, and that is OT like Williams, Ducasse or Bulaga.

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    Z i can see a OG/C like Pouncey as well or maybe one of the OLB/DEs. 
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    Re: 2010 NFL Draft Thread #1

    I wouldn't pull the trigger on any of them in the first (the LBs) because the talent is flatlined through where you pick in the second after the first few come off the board.

    Unless BB is convinced that one is "his guy" it won't go down that way.

    Pouncey, Maurkice that is, is tougher to figure, but looking at him I am thinking he is second round. Even with him coming out my gut tells me that the uber-physical phenom Valddy Ducasse will be the first guard off the board.

    But some things will be decided in this instance when they hit the weights.

    Taking either Ducasse or especially Pouncey, at #22 would be insane, because they could probably flip their pick down a few spots, net a 3rd rounder and get the same player at something between 28 and 32.  . . . providing they can find someone who wants to move up.