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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    when people talk about Watt of Jordan are there seriously thinking about them at #17?

    I am not saying the Patriots wouldn't do it as I have no idea what they will or won't do but it would seem odd to me.

    Last year they passed on Jared Odrick who was 6-5 300ilbs. The target measurables everyone thinks the Patriots want. He also had a very good senior bowl week and game and on film, to me anyways, moves extremely similar to JJ Watt as far as quickness and athleticism.

    So my question is why would the Patriots pull the trigger on either of those guys at #17 when they are less ideal as far as measurables go then a player they already passed on at better value a year ealier.

    The Patriots are all about value so it does make me curious.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    when people talk about Watt of Jordan are there seriously thinking about them at #17? I am not saying the Patriots wouldn't do it as I have no idea what they will or won't do but it would seem odd to me. Last year they passed on Jared Odrick who was 6-5 300ilbs. The target measurables everyone thinks the Patriots want. He also had a very good senior bowl week and game and on film, to me anyways, moves extremely similar to JJ Watt as far as quickness and athleticism. So my question is why would the Patriots pull the trigger on either of those guys at #17 when they are less ideal as far as measurables go then a player they already passed on at better value a year ealier. The Patriots are all about value so it does make me curious.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Yes, I am seriously considering Watt and Jordan at 17. I think Odrick and Watt/Jordan are different players. I might make a comparison between Odrick and Watt, but not Jordan. In terms of measurables, I think Watt has close to ideal, as does Odrick. Jordan is a bit small for the position.

    I don't think it's as easy to make a comparison between players of different draft years. Just because they passed on Odrick, doesn't mean they would on Watt or Jordan. I think they look not only at the individual player, but also relative to need to ranking in terms of each specific year. Perhaps Odrick didn't grade out high for them, and they had McCourty a lot higher?...
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    when people talk about Watt of Jordan are there seriously thinking about them at #17? I am not saying the Patriots wouldn't do it as I have no idea what they will or won't do but it would seem odd to me. Last year they passed on Jared Odrick who was 6-5 300ilbs. The target measurables everyone thinks the Patriots want. He also had a very good senior bowl week and game and on film, to me anyways, moves extremely similar to JJ Watt as far as quickness and athleticism. So my question is why would the Patriots pull the trigger on either of those guys at #17 when they are less ideal as far as measurables go then a player they already passed on at better value a year ealier. The Patriots are all about value so it does make me curious.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ



    Low,
    To answer your question, yes I think both Watt and Jordan make a ton of sense at 17 though none of us know how BB feels about them.  Last year, they clearly had McCourty ranked ahead of Odrick (assuming they even had interest in him), but I'm not sure how that correlates to this years draft class. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Good stuff. What 5 do you see as the most realistic fits/targets for NE based on skill (speed/quicks/hands/routes etc) and assumed draft position?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    My 2 cents for what it's worth....

    Before I weigh in on the list, do you think it's important to consider who they curently have at the position in terms of skillset? To me, it looks like (in lieu of not knowing how Price & Tate will pan out), a group of good slot receivers, mostly guys that aren't going to stretch the field, and guys that are adept to short/intermediate routes and big YAC potential. If we want to keep drafting in this mold, I would put Cobb top of list here.

    If we want to draft someone with complimentary skills, someone who can run the whole route tree, has speed and big play ability, fits the Pats mold, I think the list goes something lilke this for top 5; (btw..I'm not counting AJ Green or Julio Jones as I believe both will be out of our reach, and I'm not figuring in taking a WR in the 1st round of this draft unless Jones slips to 17....)
    1a. RCobb (fits mold to a "T", but is he a compliment to Welker, Branch, Edelman, Price, Tate, etc.?...or is he more in their mold? I like him taking over for either Branch eventually or Welker if he departs after next year)...
    1. Titus Young (a bit light, but is a burner and runs great routes..might make it to 2nd round?....close call)
    2. Torrey Smith
    3. Leonard Hankerson
    3. Austin Pettis
    4. Toliver (? mark here...kind of on the fence witih him.same with Baldwin..)
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from sydpat. Show sydpat's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucetman

    Wes Bunting from National Football Post reckons Cameron Jordan, Phil Taylor and Danny Watkins will all go in the first round.
    How does that fit in with your ideas of what Pats should do?
    Just can't help thinking if BB doesn't do something dramatic in this draft we may never see Brady win another SB.
    What effect do you think it will have on Pats draft if there is no free agency till possibly after draft?
    Big decisions for BB....................need impact players on Defence.
    It is obvious even to a blind man what all the forum fans think the Pats should do to improve.
    Trouble is the coach never does what we think he should do and the same result occurs in the big games.
    Think Bob Kraft may still save his money or go for the jugular?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : My 2 cents for what it's worth.... Before I weigh in on the list, do you think it's important to consider who they curently have at the position in terms of skillset? To me, it looks like (in lieu of not knowing how Price & Tate will pan out), a group of good slot receivers, mostly guys that aren't going to stretch the field, and guys that are adept to short/intermediate routes and big YAC potential. If we want to keep drafting in this mold, I would put Cobb top of list here. If we want to draft someone with complimentary skills, someone who can run the whole route tree, has speed and big play ability, fits the Pats mold, I think the list goes something lilke this for top 5; (btw..I'm not counting AJ Green or Julio Jones as I believe both will be out of our reach, and I'm not figuring in taking a WR in the 1st round of this draft unless Jones slips to 17....) 1a. RCobb (fits mold to a "T", but is he a compliment to Welker, Branch, Edelman, Price, Tate, etc.?...or is he more in their mold? I like him taking over for either Branch eventually or Welker if he departs after next year)... 1. Titus Young (a bit light, but is a burner and runs great routes..might make it to 2nd round?....close call) 2. Torrey Smith 3. Leonard Hankerson 3. Austin Pettis 4. Toliver (? mark here...kind of on the fence witih him.same with Baldwin..)
    Posted by PatsLifer


    PL
    I'm in agreeance that both Green and Jones are off the board by 17.

    My assumption is that Tate and Price represent the "deep threats" of the future for the WR corp.

    With that being said, I see them taking a WR that best fits their preferred skill set for the position which is good speed, quick/sudden COD skills, good agility, solid hands, clean route running and RAC ability.  We'll know a lot more following the combine, but below are my 5 targets (in no particular order):

    Randall Cobb
    Torrey Smith (assuming he falls to Rd 2)
    Vincent Brown
    Titus Young
    Jeremy Kerley
     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Faucetman Wes Bunting from National Football Post reckons Cameron Jordan, Phil Taylor and Danny Watkins will all go in the first round. How does that fit in with your ideas of what Pats should do? Just can't help thinking if BB doesn't do something dramatic in this draft we may never see Brady win another SB. What effect do you think it will have on Pats draft if there is no free agency till possibly after draft? Big decisions for BB....................need impact players on Defence. It is obvious even to a blind man what all the forum fans think the Pats should do to improve. Trouble is the coach never does what we think he should do and the same result occurs in the big games. Think Bob Kraft may still save his money or go for the jugular?
    Posted by sydpat

    I agree with the assessment on Jordan and Taylor both going in the first, not sure I agree on Watkins.  If he wasn't 27, maybe, but I think concern over his age pushes him into the 2nd round but he probably will go before 45.  I think teams needing an OG will go with Pouncey and Wisniewski before Watkins.

    I'm still thinking DL or rush OLB with our first choice.  That would be the most logical move.  For now I am going to assume that we reach a deal with Mankins and Light which takes some pressure off OL for the first round.  

    I am a little uncertain about most of the top OLB prospects.  Most of them are DE conversion types and that always worries me.  Of the top rated players; Quinn, Smith, and Kerrigan have had very limited exposure to playing standing up while Houston, Ayers and Miller have shown ability at the position already.  Of Miller, Quinn, and Kerrigan it is possible that none of these guys will be there at 17 just based on other team's draft priorities.  If one is there but Jordan and/or Watt is also there I'd be torn on who to take.  I would probably go with the 34 DE because there are some other options at OLB down the board.

    I don't think I would take Ayers or Houston at 17, I think at 28 or 33 we can consider them.  I would probably stay away from Carter based on his injury and I don't like anyone else this high.  At 60 or 74 I would consider, Herzlich, Reed, Wright and even Acho.  Moch would be interesting but I wouldn't count him as solving our OLB problem, he'd be more of a LB/Safety hybrid that we'd use on special teams and sub packages.  At 60 or 74, the risk becomes a lot lower on a DE/OLB conversion type.  History shows it takes 3-4 years usually for a conversion type to make a big impact although Matthews and Ware are exceptions.

    Today, I'd say lets go with Jordan or Watt at 17 then see who of the OLB types are there at 28.  Houston or Ayers could be considered.  I think we trade 33 down to the mid 40s so I think this would be the place for a stud interior OL type like Watkins or perhaps a stud RB like LeShoure.  I could even make a case for Martez Wilson or Rahim Moore with our first pick of Round 2.  60 or 74 is probably the place I would look to take an OLB.  Reed, Wright or even Acho.

    I don't know what to tell you if Free Agency happens after the draft.  All teams will be in the same boat.  I think we have a little less exposure than most teams because Light and Mankins are our only real major concerns.  I expect us to draft 1 C/G type anyway to replace Neal on the roster but we might not draft OT if we think Light will stay.  But this is why I like Watkins.  If we could get him around 40-45 he gives us depth inside and out.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I am relatively new at posting on this board, but aside from the Patriots games, the draft is my favorite part of the year, and I put a lot of work and time and thought into things. So here is my top 10 at each position, and in the next post I will put some more thoughts. Along with some PAtriots fits that I see.

    QB

    1.       Andy Dalton, TCU

    2.       Christian Ponder, Florida State

    3.       Jake Locker, Washington

    4.       Blaine Gabbert, Missouri

    5.       Colin Kaepernick, Nevada

    6.       Greg McElroy, Alabama

    7.       Nathan Enderle, Idaho

    8.       Cameron Newton, Auburn

    9.       Ricky Stanzi, Iowa

    10.   Pat Devlin, Delaware

     

    RB          

    1.       Mark Ingram, Alabama

    2.       Mikel LeShoure, Illinois

    3.       Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech

    4.       Daniel Thomas, Kansas State

    5.       Bilal Powell, Louisville

    6.       Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State

    7.       Demarco Murray, Oklahoma

    8.       Taiwan Jones, Eastern Washington

    9.       Derrick Locke, Kentucky

    10.   Dion Lewis, RB, Pittsburgh

    WR

    1.       AJ Green, Georgia

    2.       Julio Jones, Alabama

    3.       Leonard Hankerson, Miami

    4.       Torrey Smith, Maryland

    5.       Titus Young, Boise State

    6.       Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh

    7.       Jerel Jernigan, Troy

    8.       Niles Paul, Nebraska

    9.       Randall Cobb, Kentucky

    10.   Vincent Brown, San Diego State

    TE

    1.       Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame

    2.       Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin

    3.       Julius Thomas, Portland State

    4.       DJ Williams, Arkansas

    5.       Luke Stocker, Tennessee

    6.       Charles Clay, Tulsa

    7.       Wesley Saunders, South Carolina

    8.       Lee Smith, Marshall

    9.       Richard Gordon, Miami (FL)

    10.   Mike McNiell, Nebraska

    OT

    1.       Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin

    2.       Anthony Castonzo, Boston College

    3.       Tyron Smith, Southern California

    4.       Nate Solder, Colorado

    5.       Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State

    6.       Ben Ijalana, Villanova

    7.       Marcus Gilbert, Florida

    8.       Lee Ziemba, Auburn

    9.       Jason Pinkston, Pittsburgh

    10.   James Carpenter, Alabama

     

    Interior-OL

    1.       Rodney Hudson, Florida State

    2.       John Moffitt, Wisconsin

    3.       Marcus Cannon, TCU

    4.       Mike Pouncey, Florida

    5.       Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State

    6.       Danny Watkins, Baylor

    7.       Will Rackley, Leheigh

    8.       Stephen Schilling, Michigan

    9.       Kristopher O’Dowd, Southern California

    10.   Zach Hurd, Connecticut

    4-3 DE

    1.       Robert Quinn, North Carolina

    2.       Da’quan Bowers, Clemson

    3.       Aldon Smith, Missouri

    4.       Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue

    5.       JJ Watt, Wisconsin

    6.       Brooks Reed, Arizona

    7.       Jamaal Sheard, Pittsburgh

    8.       Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma

    9.       Sam Acho, Texas

    10.   Allen Bailey, Miami

    3-4 DE

    1.       Marcell Dareus, Alabama

    2.       Cameron Jordan, California

    3.       JJ Watt, Wisconsin

    4.       Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple

    5.       Cameron Heyward, Ohio State

    6.       Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson

    7.       Christian Ballard, Iowa

    8.       Kenrick Ellis, Hampton

    9.       Marvin Austin, North Carolina

    10.   Lawrence Guy, Arizona State

    DT

    1.       Marcell Dareus, Alabama

    2.       Nick Fairley, Auburn

    3.       Stephen Paea, Oregon State

    4.       Phil Taylor, Baylor

    5.       Drake Nevis, LSU

    6.       Corey Liuget, Illinois

    7.       Marvin Austin, North Carolina

    8.       Phil Taylor, Baylor

    9.       Sione Fua, Stanford

    10.   Terell McClain, South Florida

    4-3 OLB

    1.       Bruce Carter, North Carolina

    2.       Greg Jones, Michigan State

    3.       Akeem Ayers, UCLA

    4.       Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut

    5.       Dontay Moch, Nevada

    6.       Mason Foster, Washington

    7.       Colin, McCarthy, Miami (FL)

    8.       Ross Homan, Ohio State

    9.       KJ Wright, Mississippi State

    10.   Greg Lloyd, Connecticut

    3-4 OLB

    1.       Robert Quinn, North Carolina

    2.       Aldon Smith, Missouri

    3.       Von Miller, Texas A&M

    4.       Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue

    5.       Justin Houston, Georgia

    6.       Mark Herzlich, Boston College

    7.       KJ Wright, Mississippi State

    8.       Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma

    9.       Tom Keiser, Stanford

    10.   Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh

    ILB

    1.       Mark Herzlich, Boston College

    2.       Martez Wilson, Illinois

    3.       Scott Lutrus, Connecticut

    4.       Greg Jones, Michigan State

    5.       Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina

    6.       Casey Matthews, Oregon

    7.       Kelvin Sheppard, LSU

    8.       Chris White, Mississippi State

    9.       Nate Irving, NC State

    10.   Bruce Miller, Central Florida

     

    CB

    1.       Patrick Peterson, LSU

    2.       Prince Amukamara, Nebraska

    3.       Jimmy Smith, Colorado

    4.       Brandon Harris, Miami (FL)

    5.       Aaron Williams, Texas

    6.       Ras-I Dowling, Virginia

    7.       Jalil Smith, Colorado

    8.       Curtis Brown, Texas

    9.       Johnny Patrick, Louisville

    10.   Kendrick Burney, North Carolina

     

    S

    1.       Rahim Moore, UCLA

    2.       Ahmad Black, Florida

    3.       DeAndre McDaniel, Clemson

    4.       Quinton Carter, Oklahoma

    5.       Robert Sands, West Virginia

    6.       Duenta Williams, North Carolina

    7.       Shiloh Keo, Idaho

    8.       Eric Hagg, Nebraska

    9.       Da’Norris Searcy, North Carolina
    10. Jeron Johnson, Boise State

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Good stuff. What 5 do you see as the most realistic fits/targets for NE based on skill (speed/quicks/hands/routes etc) and assumed draft position?
    Posted by mbeaulieu07

    I think the Mankins and Light situations will be resolved before the draft so I think we will go DL or OLB at 17.  I don't think any other direction at 17 would make sense unless there is a highly rated player that unexpectedly fell to us. 

    You're question about which backs make the most sense for our system is really a tough question.  Fitting our system generically would be versatile backs that run well with good vision who can catch, block and hold onto the ball.  First we have to assume that we are happy with BJGE and Woody.  I think it's safe to say Woody has taken over the 3rd down roll that Faulk had.  Is it safe to say BJGE will be our #1 back next year so we are only looking to fill 2 roster spots?  This is the part I don't know.  I assume BB is expecting BJGE to be his #1 back but we don't know how he views the top backs in the draft yet or whether he thinks an upgrade is needed. 

    If I had a chance to draft an explosive back that I think would be better than BJGE, I would seriously consider doing so with pick 28 or 33.  But if I'm looking for depth and players who compliment our main 2 guys, then different players come to mind and certainly later in the draft. 

    For RBs, I think Ingram and LeShoure have set themselves apart for pick 28 consideration or certainly at 33.  I think both guys have the ability to be better than BJGE and both could be game changers. 

    Then I think there's another group of backs that I'd be considering at 60 such as Hunter, Vereen and Williams.  But 60 is where I think OLB makes the most sense right now so we might be inclined to put RB off until the 4th round if we miss out on these 5 RBs by pick 60.  I like these 5 backs better than the rest primarily because of their production, dual threats as receivers, their size/speed ratio (4 of the 5 are listed in the 4.4s) and that they all bring something a little different to the table from our current crew.  A healthy Ingram showed us in 2009 what he can do and LeShoure had his break out year this year.  Both guys could easily take the starting job from BJGE.  Hunter reminds me of Maurice Jones-Drew and could do many of the same things that BJGE and Woody do today, so he provides excellent depth to both players.  Vereen and Williams are about the same size/weight as BJGE but both move faster and Vereen especially is a solid receiver out of the backfield.  Williams had his break out year in 2009.

    At 92 or laterthere are a whole slew of RBs that would seem to make sense.

    B. Powell
    D. Murray
    R. Helu
    A. Allen
    D. Thomas
    J. Todman
    J. Clay
    D. Locke
    V. Taua
    E. Royster
    N. Devine
    J Rodgers

    Powell and Helu are very similar to each other and BJGE but both are faster than BJGE.  Allen, Royster and Thomas are big bruising backs like LeShoure but they should be had later in the draft.  Murray is a pure receiver, third down, ST guy.  Clay is a pure beast as a short down guy.  Todman, Rodgers and Locke are your scat back types so they wouldn't really add much to what Woodhead already brings us. 

    If I was trying to round out the group with late picks I might get Clay with our late 4th or 5th if we have one, then Fannin with a late pick or undrafted.  Fannin really interests me as a late round guy in that he's big, 5-11, 228, runs well, 4.54 but has low miles, just 233 career carries which is the lowest of the group but at a nice 5.9 average and he was very productive with Auburn coming out of the back field with 97 catches for 985 yards and 9 TD.  After Murray and Rodgers, Fannin was the most productive receiving back in my top 20. 

    Sitting here today looking at the board and our needs I'd likely hold off at RB and go with one of the guys in the table above in the 4th or 5th than take Fannin with our last pick of the draft since he is currently projected as going undrafted. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Obviously most people on this board can identify the areas of needs:

    OLB
    DE
    OG
    OT
    WR

    Other areas that may be addressed:
    C
    CB
    S

    With our multitude of picks in the top half of the draft, I think it will be a formality that many of these needs are addressed in one way or another.

    At OLB one of our biggest area of needs, I think it is a nessecity to grab at least one of the following:

    Robert Quinn
    Ryan Kerrigan
    Von Miller
    Aldon Smith
    Justin Houston
    Brooks Reed
    Mark Herzlich

    In that order.

    It's pivotal that we get some kind of pass rush or have someone on our defense that strikes fear in the opponents eyes. Someone they have to gameplan for. Taking it for what it is, if we had a Clay Matthews type talent this year, I think we are the best team in the league.  I think if BB can't get his top guys that fit his requirments for measurables (Smith, Quinn, Kerrigan), that he ought to dig down deep and explore a little smaller guys who are still damn good football players which starts with Von Miller.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    I am on record as saying that it doesn't really matter WHEN they get the needs, but I think the needs are apparent: Top 4 (in no order): 1. DE 2. OLB 3. OL 4. RB As mentioned in other threads, Scarnecchia's ability to coacup O LInemen means they may be able to go mid rds (2, 3 or 4) to get personnel either at Guard, Center or Tackle. Not sure how the OL depth is in this draft.
    Posted by BBReigns


    I hear you, but I think the WHEN is just as important as the WHO. We are not drafting for depth at OLB and DE positions. We are drafting possibly day 1 starters. THat means, we need top tier talent, and we need to target that talent at 17, 28 or 33, or possibly 60. Beyond that I see depth if we want to add an extra DE, or OLB, or whatever.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I agree with the assessment on Jordan and Taylor both going in the first, not sure I agree on Watkins.  If he wasn't 27, maybe, but I think concern over his age pushes him into the 2nd round but he probably will go before 45.  I think teams needing an OG will go with Pouncey and Wisniewski before Watkins. I'm still thinking DL or rush OLB with our first choice.  That would be the most logical move.  For now I am going to assume that we reach a deal with Mankins and Light which takes some pressure off OL for the first round.   I am a little uncertain about most of the top OLB prospects.  Most of them are DE conversion types and that always worries me.  Of the top rated players; Quinn, Smith, and Kerrigan have had very limited exposure to playing standing up while Houston, Ayers and Miller have shown ability at the position already.  Of Miller, Quinn, and Kerrigan it is possible that none of these guys will be there at 17 just based on other team's draft priorities.  If one is there but Jordan and/or Watt is also there I'd be torn on who to take.  I would probably go with the 34 DE because there are some other options at OLB down the board. I don't think I would take Ayers or Houston at 17, I think at 28 or 33 we can consider them.  I would probably stay away from Carter based on his injury and I don't like anyone else this high.  At 60 or 74 I would consider, Herzlich, Reed, Wright and even Acho.  Moch would be interesting but I wouldn't count him as solving our OLB problem, he'd be more of a LB/Safety hybrid that we'd use on special teams and sub packages.  At 60 or 74, the risk becomes a lot lower on a DE/OLB conversion type.  History shows it takes 3-4 years usually for a conversion type to make a big impact although Matthews and Ware are exceptions. Today, I'd say lets go with Jordan or Watt at 17 then see who of the OLB types are there at 28.  Houston or Ayers could be considered.  I think we trade 33 down to the mid 40s so I think this would be the place for a stud interior OL type like Watkins or perhaps a stud RB like LeShoure.  I could even make a case for Martez Wilson or Rahim Moore with our first pick of Round 2.  60 or 74 is probably the place I would look to take an OLB.  Reed, Wright or even Acho. I don't know what to tell you if Free Agency happens after the draft.  All teams will be in the same boat.  I think we have a little less exposure than most teams because Light and Mankins are our only real major concerns.  I expect us to draft 1 C/G type anyway to replace Neal on the roster but we might not draft OT if we think Light will stay.  But this is why I like Watkins.  If we could get him around 40-45 he gives us depth inside and out.
    Posted by Faucetman


    Agree on this almost completely. If you think there are no rush OLB's that are worthy of going with our pick 17, then 17 is slated for the DE spot? I think this is what you are saying, or perhaps use 17 on another position. It still might not be a bad idea to grab an OL with 17...

    Do you think 17 is too high for Aldon SMith? Does he fit the Pats system for the OLB spot?
    ALdon Smith goes 17 or earlier, Houston goes 17-28, Ayers I think goes 20-35 or so....BReed goes in the 55-65 range....
     Bottomline, I want a day 1 starter as OLB for me in this draft, someone to take over for Nink and TBC. In fact, I would let TBC walk, keep Nink and draft another OLB in round 3-5. (KJ Wright)

    As far as DE's go, the 3 I want are Watt, Jordan or Wilkerson. I think Jordan goes 17 or earlier, Watt possibly 17-28, Wilkerson 28 to 35 or so....That's 3 tiers of potential DE's for our ssytem.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Obviously I've been spending a lot of time on backs and receivers lately.  For receivers I think I agree with Mayock in that you have Green, Jones, and Baldwin as 1 through 3.  Baldwin is taller, thicker and faster than Hankerson with more production and highest average yards per catch of my top 20 at 18.3.  Mayock then has Titus Young as his 4th best and a bunch tied at 5.  I would probably put Hankerson in there at 4 and include Young tied with Cobb and Smith as 5th best.  Smith is a big kid that can fly.  Cobb does everything and is a solid citizen but purely as a WR his 11.9 yards per catch is the 3rd lowest of my top 20.  I see him strictly as a slot receiver at the next level as I do Kerley and Maehl.

    There are other receivers not mentioned in the above who I think could end up being very productive and are intriguing to me. 

    Toliver is a big 6-5 guy but thinly built but with really good speed, 4.49, for his size. 

    Paul, Pettis, Doss, Little, Moore and Salas  I kinda lump altogether in that they are all big guys, 6-1 and up and run in the mid 4.5 range with average ypc in the 11 -15 range.  Most of these guys should be there as we head into the 4-6 round range.  None of these guys make a lot of sense to me.  We already have Price who is 6-0 and runs faster than all of these guys.  If we are looking for a big target, I'd rather get Baldwin or Hankerson a little earlier on as I view them as better odds to succeed.  Of this group Denarius Moore was the most productive in terms of career ypc but Pettis was the play maker with 39 TD, by far the most of all the WRs in the top 20; the next closest was Salas at 26.

    Jerniganis a tiny drink of water, who is the fastest of all the receivers.  I kind of lump him in there with Titus as a dynamic speedster who can make things happen.  Ultimately, I don't think Jernigan will be anything more than a special teams/roll player at the next level.

    So for me if we are drafting a WR, with Green and Jones off the board, I would consider Baldwin at perhaps 28, Smith or Young at 60 or just about anyone later on.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick.

    Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick. Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
    Posted by Faucetman

    very interseting faucetman,
        i love the spikes upgrade (3 down inside backer)
        and as you say, maybe a hedge at olb. very intriguing! thanks.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from sportslover21. Show sportslover21's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucetman,

    I think you are right on in assessment of Wilson. The thing is, I think that ILB is one of our least areas of need to address, and the only ones I'd target are the bigger types who can also play OLB in our scheme, which I think there are very few of in any draft. One guy who I definitely think could do both is Mark Herzlich. He has the measurables and the talent, even after cancer to get it done, and if he ever regains form, even to the tune of 75% of where he was at, then I think that is a 2nd round steal.

    Then you got guys like Martez Wilson, KJ Wright types which could convert based on measurables. But it's tough to project any type of converstion into a 3-4, whether it is from DE in a 4-3 or ILB in a 3-4 or 4-3. It is just a tough position to see whether guys can play there, especially in BB's scheme. I think Martez and KJ can definitely make the conversion, based on talent and skills that I see on the field, along with measurables. But you also have to consider BB's take on it, which really none of us will ever know.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick. Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
    Posted by Faucetman


    Yes Faucet...I was looking at Martez as well, and think he could convert to an OLB. I like his position flexibility and can actually seem him playing both. I think we are very limited when it comes to SPikes. Part of me wonders why we drafted him in the first place. He limits our effectivness and flexibility on the field because he is a liability against the pass. Martez on the other hand can do both well I believe.
    I think he would have to be targeted near the top of round 2. I seem him going in the 1st third of round 2. The Pats could have him easily if we traded down a few spots from 33 to say 35/38 or so. He surely has rare size and speed for the ILB spot, and I think it would be an upgrade over Spikes, or use him outside opposite Cunningham. I have 2 questions on Martez and the ILB spot...
    1. Can he rush the passer? I want an OLB to be able to do this first and foremost.
    2. Seems like its getting crowded inside...Mayo, SPikes, Guyton, Fletcher, etc....Which one do you cut or trade?


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Yes Faucet...I was looking at Martez as well, and think he could convert to an OLB. I like his position flexibility and can actually seem him playing both. I think we are very limited when it comes to SPikes. Part of me wonders why we drafted him in the first place. He limits our effectivness and flexibility on the field because he is a liability against the pass. Martez on the other hand can do both well I believe. I think he would have to be targeted near the top of round 2. I seem him going in the 1st third of round 2. The Pats could have him easily if we traded down a few spots from 33 to say 35/38 or so. He surely has rare size and speed for the ILB spot, and I think it would be an upgrade over Spikes, or use him outside opposite Cunningham. I have 2 questions on Martez and the ILB spot... 1. Can he rush the passer? I want an OLB to be able to do this first and foremost. 2. Seems like its getting crowded inside...Mayo, SPikes, Guyton, Fletcher, etc....Which one do you cut or trade?
    Posted by PatsLifer


    hi patslifer,
    i definitely let go of guyton. he,tbc, and meriweather are players i dont want to keep.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    ShiningWiz, respectfully disagree about being fine with Law Firm.  He's a great kid, but he is at no time a break-away threat.  He keeps the defense honest and not much more.  Hard worker.  I hope we get a big, bruising runner, 5 yards and a cloud of dust, run over people, etc.  I want someone who can run in inclement weather and who is a given around the goal line when the defense is stacked.  I think we fall in love with TB because he is so gifted, but we need that given back to beat defenses like the Jets, give 'em one more thing to worry about.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    reuter and rang from cbs sports both have the patriots taking aldon smith at 17.
    here's some of the analysis there:

     they describe him as tough against the rush, able to man handle even big tough o linemen, and a beast on the pass rush. at only a sophomore, they believe he is due to gain some muscle (at least 15 lbs). 

    being a sophomore, also beleive he is a risk.

    with these skill, if he played another year in college he'd be near the top and unreachable by th epats liklely. if belichick thinks he's a patriot kind of guy, he could be a no  brainer. i know a few of you guys like watt and a few kerrigan. smith seems like even mor epossible upside, while maybe watt is the safer pick.

    elsewhere i've seen nfl analysts agre with some of us here that olb is our #1 need. they peg reed, kerrigan and hmm gonna havge to check the 3rd.

    seems like reed may give us more options(being able to take him later) of taking better choices in the first 3 picks (ie better o lineman and better d lineman).
    have even read houston as more of a risk than reed at olb to be exceptional.
    he did do well against the sec though. still a reed pick give more capital with the earlier picks i think.


    01/08/2011 - Defensive end Aldon Smith, a redshirt sophomore, announced Friday that he, too, is heading for the NFL. But while the first-round prospect for Gabbert seems like a sure thing, it's a bit murkier with Smith, who only played two seasons at Mizzou and missed three games this year with a broken bone in his leg. Gil Brandt of ESPN.com, the longtime personnel director of the Dallas Cowboys, isn't sure that Smith is making the right choice. "I think that guys at that position, it's imperative that they get as much strength and maturity as possible," Brandt said. "Historically, I don't think it's a good move. ... He's got potential, no question. That's what you're banking on, his potential. "For whatever reason, that potential seems to come faster when they've played a full four years (in college). But only time will tell." - Bill Coats, St. Louis Post-Dispatch

     

  22. Full Aldon Smith News Wire
Overview

In only two years on the field, Smith earned enough respect from Big 12 coaches to be named first-team all-conference despite playing only nine games because of a broken fibula. He gained that respect with production (48 tackles, 10 for loss, 5.5 sacks), but also his ability to come back from a slightly fractured right leg in only three weeks.

A consensus freshman All-American and the conference's Defensive Newcomer and Freshman of the Year (along with honorable mention All-Big 12 honors) in 2009, he had 64 tackles -- 19 for loss and 11.5 sacks, both of which ranked in the top 15 nationally. The year before, he proved to scouts he would eventually be a force, dominating the scout team and putting on muscle as a redshirt.

In addition to his exceptional athletic ability, Smith's toughness has impressed scouts. While still obviously less than 100 percent, he returned an interception 58 yards in a big win against Oklahoma and managed six tackles for loss and 2.5 sacks in his final six games. He's still raw, but evaluators look at Smith as a potential John Abraham or Julian Peterson type of pass rusher with very good length to play in a 4-3 or 3-4 base scheme as he matures physically.

Analysis

Pass rush: Great length and upper-body development with room to grow and become a top-notch pass rusher. When given the green light to attack the passer, he is able to turn the corner or quickly go outside-in to get a more direct path to the QB. Uses strength to get movement in his bull rush; able to release with his hands to harass a scrambling passer. Moves inside to a three-technique spot on some plays to take advantage of his quickness, as well as his height, to disrupt passing lanes (seven pass breakups in 2009-2010). Jumps over and uses his hands to beat cut blocks.

Run defense: Potentially strong edge run defender as 4-3 end or 3-4 linebacker. Stays balanced out of his stance, extends his arms to keep distance, able to shed to get to the ball on either side of the block. Good backfield awareness. Willing to lower his shoulder and stand his ground against pulling guards and moving tight ends. Gets down the line while engaged to be involved on inside runs. Beats reach blocks to get into the backfield.

Explosion: Still more potential than practice as a pure outside pass rusher, but shows glimpses of explosive ability on the edge. Pops his man with big swipes to get past blockers. Brings a punch in his bull rush, sometimes knocking back even strong college tackles.

Strength: Plays stronger than his height/weight numbers indicate. Does not give up room when holding the line. Violent with his hands, able to push aside blockers when rushing the passer or shedding to chase ballcarriers. Still requires time in pro strength and conditioning to gain 15-20 pounds before becoming a three-down player as a 4-3 defensive end.

Tackling: Uses his long, strong arms to wrap up quarterbacks and ballcarriers in the backfield; can chop down hard to force fumbles. Speedy chase tackler who closes well for his size due to that length, hustle, and straight-line speed. Misses tackles when leaving his feet early or short-arming (ducking his head and not fully extending.)

Intangibles: Right fibula fractured against San Diego State in October 2010; fracture was high enough above ankle and below the knee so it could heal on its own without surgery. Returned just three weeks later and played hurt for the rest of the season. Only a redshirt sophomore, which is a positive given his upside, but some might view as negative given his relative lack of experience.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I think Baldwin is probably the 3rd best WR at this point.  He has tremendous size and speed for his size.  He's an excellent down field blocker.  He has a great 18.3 career yards after catch without a very good QB.  My only concern is over his character.  He made some comments before he declared about Wannstedt complaining about how he was being used, etc.  Complaints about Wannstedt as a coach don't shock me but airing your dirty laundry isn't what BB looks for in a player so he probably doesn't have Baldwin on his board.  I think if we are looking for a big target, Hankerson would be a safer earlier pick. 

    Torrey Smith is really fast with pretty good size too.  Titus Young is a deep field threat but has some character issues.  Randall Cobb is probably the safest pick in terms of his character and overall versatility.  But, I think he's more of a slot receiver, special teamer and gimmick player.  But if we needed someone to add depth, Cobb would be a nice selection because he can do so many things for you and you know he will bust his butt in practice, the film room and in games.  Knowing that Green and Jones will be gone, I really think if we are looking for a WR high as in by pick 60, Baldwin, Hankerson, Cobb, Smith and Young would be the players I'd be studying most.

    But if WR is not a priority, there will be some very good players later on.  If rosters expand for an 18 game season I think we should add an extra WR. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    peter king just asked was very comfortable in saying he didnt think either side really WANTS to come to an agreement now (this early) and he said he doesnt see an agreement until some games are lost of the season. peter king is a respected voice in football. 

    i think he may have the pulse by being close to/having the ears of the parties involved. hopefully this mood changes.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    davis at footballsfuture has smith going to houston at 11 and us passing on watt and taking jordan at 17 (watt going to baltimore at 26).
    new england couldnt hope to hopefor a better player at this spot (17, than jordan).

    they have houston going to us at 28
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Low, To answer your question, yes I think both Watt and Jordan make a ton of sense at 17 though none of us know how BB feels about them.  Last year, they clearly had McCourty ranked ahead of Odrick (assuming they even had interest in him), but I'm not sure how that correlates to this years draft class. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07



    MB the correlation would be you do not "just" grade a player for the draft class he is in. Certainly you do that. 1,2,3 4, etc etc

    But you also say ok our #1 guy for us as an organization we value drafting no higher than x position.

    Teams and especially NE place a value on a player and do not wish to over draft from that set value if possible.

    What I am saying is that if they had a player who has all the similar talent, quickness, strength, stats, etc and even BETTER ideal measurables than either Watt or Jordan that they passed on last year at #28. It just doesn't seem super logical to assume they have all of a sudden assigned a new higher value to that same or similar player one year later.

    Especially with other options who can be argued as having similar abilities and better matching measurable available just a bit later.

    Perhaps I am just thinking Jordan and Watt are lighter than they actually are.

    I am not say they would not draft either of those guys nor am I saying they shouldn't. I do not have a problem with either. I like both.

    Simply the logic does not follow what they have done recently. They really like their 300 pounders. Especially a first rounder they expect to be an every down 16 games player.

    Sure they have had some lighter guys like Green and Wright but those guys were pass rush subs and not drafted mid 1st round.

    It might come down to what they feel the drop off is between the first tier of players at DE position and the 2nd grouping.

    Jordan 285
    Watt 290
    Claiborn 285
    Liuget 300
    Heyward 288
    Taylor 337
    Wilkerson 305
    Jenkins 309


    Rostered
    Wilfork 325 (21st)
    Ty Warren 300 (13th)
    Warren 330 (3rd)
    Brace 330 (40th)
    Deaderick 305 (247th)
    Wright 295
    Pryor 310 (207th)
    Love 310
    Weston 316 (248th)
    Richard 295 (234th)
    Cohen 300

    Past
    Seymour 310 (6th)
    J. Green 285 (126th)
    Mincey 270 (191st)
    Smith 308 (206th)
    Brown 285 (127th)

    Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out leading up to the draft. Peoples top 100's have already started moving quite a bit.
     
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