2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I agree with the assessment on Jordan and Taylor both going in the first, not sure I agree on Watkins.  If he wasn't 27, maybe, but I think concern over his age pushes him into the 2nd round but he probably will go before 45.  I think teams needing an OG will go with Pouncey and Wisniewski before Watkins. I'm still thinking DL or rush OLB with our first choice.  That would be the most logical move.  For now I am going to assume that we reach a deal with Mankins and Light which takes some pressure off OL for the first round.   I am a little uncertain about most of the top OLB prospects.  Most of them are DE conversion types and that always worries me.  Of the top rated players; Quinn, Smith, and Kerrigan have had very limited exposure to playing standing up while Houston, Ayers and Miller have shown ability at the position already.  Of Miller, Quinn, and Kerrigan it is possible that none of these guys will be there at 17 just based on other team's draft priorities.  If one is there but Jordan and/or Watt is also there I'd be torn on who to take.  I would probably go with the 34 DE because there are some other options at OLB down the board. I don't think I would take Ayers or Houston at 17, I think at 28 or 33 we can consider them.  I would probably stay away from Carter based on his injury and I don't like anyone else this high.  At 60 or 74 I would consider, Herzlich, Reed, Wright and even Acho.  Moch would be interesting but I wouldn't count him as solving our OLB problem, he'd be more of a LB/Safety hybrid that we'd use on special teams and sub packages.  At 60 or 74, the risk becomes a lot lower on a DE/OLB conversion type.  History shows it takes 3-4 years usually for a conversion type to make a big impact although Matthews and Ware are exceptions. Today, I'd say lets go with Jordan or Watt at 17 then see who of the OLB types are there at 28.  Houston or Ayers could be considered.  I think we trade 33 down to the mid 40s so I think this would be the place for a stud interior OL type like Watkins or perhaps a stud RB like LeShoure.  I could even make a case for Martez Wilson or Rahim Moore with our first pick of Round 2.  60 or 74 is probably the place I would look to take an OLB.  Reed, Wright or even Acho. I don't know what to tell you if Free Agency happens after the draft.  All teams will be in the same boat.  I think we have a little less exposure than most teams because Light and Mankins are our only real major concerns.  I expect us to draft 1 C/G type anyway to replace Neal on the roster but we might not draft OT if we think Light will stay.  But this is why I like Watkins.  If we could get him around 40-45 he gives us depth inside and out.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Agree on this almost completely. If you think there are no rush OLB's that are worthy of going with our pick 17, then 17 is slated for the DE spot? I think this is what you are saying, or perhaps use 17 on another position. It still might not be a bad idea to grab an OL with 17...

    Do you think 17 is too high for Aldon SMith? Does he fit the Pats system for the OLB spot?
    ALdon Smith goes 17 or earlier, Houston goes 17-28, Ayers I think goes 20-35 or so....BReed goes in the 55-65 range....
     Bottomline, I want a day 1 starter as OLB for me in this draft, someone to take over for Nink and TBC. In fact, I would let TBC walk, keep Nink and draft another OLB in round 3-5. (KJ Wright)

    As far as DE's go, the 3 I want are Watt, Jordan or Wilkerson. I think Jordan goes 17 or earlier, Watt possibly 17-28, Wilkerson 28 to 35 or so....That's 3 tiers of potential DE's for our ssytem.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Obviously I've been spending a lot of time on backs and receivers lately.  For receivers I think I agree with Mayock in that you have Green, Jones, and Baldwin as 1 through 3.  Baldwin is taller, thicker and faster than Hankerson with more production and highest average yards per catch of my top 20 at 18.3.  Mayock then has Titus Young as his 4th best and a bunch tied at 5.  I would probably put Hankerson in there at 4 and include Young tied with Cobb and Smith as 5th best.  Smith is a big kid that can fly.  Cobb does everything and is a solid citizen but purely as a WR his 11.9 yards per catch is the 3rd lowest of my top 20.  I see him strictly as a slot receiver at the next level as I do Kerley and Maehl.

    There are other receivers not mentioned in the above who I think could end up being very productive and are intriguing to me. 

    Toliver is a big 6-5 guy but thinly built but with really good speed, 4.49, for his size. 

    Paul, Pettis, Doss, Little, Moore and Salas  I kinda lump altogether in that they are all big guys, 6-1 and up and run in the mid 4.5 range with average ypc in the 11 -15 range.  Most of these guys should be there as we head into the 4-6 round range.  None of these guys make a lot of sense to me.  We already have Price who is 6-0 and runs faster than all of these guys.  If we are looking for a big target, I'd rather get Baldwin or Hankerson a little earlier on as I view them as better odds to succeed.  Of this group Denarius Moore was the most productive in terms of career ypc but Pettis was the play maker with 39 TD, by far the most of all the WRs in the top 20; the next closest was Salas at 26.

    Jerniganis a tiny drink of water, who is the fastest of all the receivers.  I kind of lump him in there with Titus as a dynamic speedster who can make things happen.  Ultimately, I don't think Jernigan will be anything more than a special teams/roll player at the next level.

    So for me if we are drafting a WR, with Green and Jones off the board, I would consider Baldwin at perhaps 28, Smith or Young at 60 or just about anyone later on.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick.

    Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick. Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    very interseting faucetman,
        i love the spikes upgrade (3 down inside backer)
        and as you say, maybe a hedge at olb. very intriguing! thanks.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucetman,

    I think you are right on in assessment of Wilson. The thing is, I think that ILB is one of our least areas of need to address, and the only ones I'd target are the bigger types who can also play OLB in our scheme, which I think there are very few of in any draft. One guy who I definitely think could do both is Mark Herzlich. He has the measurables and the talent, even after cancer to get it done, and if he ever regains form, even to the tune of 75% of where he was at, then I think that is a 2nd round steal.

    Then you got guys like Martez Wilson, KJ Wright types which could convert based on measurables. But it's tough to project any type of converstion into a 3-4, whether it is from DE in a 4-3 or ILB in a 3-4 or 4-3. It is just a tough position to see whether guys can play there, especially in BB's scheme. I think Martez and KJ can definitely make the conversion, based on talent and skills that I see on the field, along with measurables. But you also have to consider BB's take on it, which really none of us will ever know.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]What do you guys think the odds are of us targeting Martez Wilson at all?  He is clearly the best ILB in the draft and the one who best fits our size requirements.  At 6-4, 250 with 4.59 speed he is a lot faster than Spikes' 5.05, nearly a half second faster.  Wilson led the Illini in tackles with 111 last year.  He had 4 sacks last year and has 9 for his career which isn't bad for an inside LB.  Wilson will probably come off the board pretty early in the 2nd round as CLE, CIN, DEN and TEN have pretty pressing needs.  Obviously we have bigger needs but adding a guy who tackles as well if not better than Spikes but who can stay in on third downs and cover may be worth the upgrade for the pick. Part of me wonders if Wilson can play OLB?  At least he has experience at LB.  We know he's solid against the run and has speed to cover.  He's only 21 so he will probably add a few pounds.  He might be a safer conversion idea than some of the guys we've been discussing and if he can't play OLB, we know we at least have a home for him inside.  Other than Von Miller, Bruce Carter and Dontay Moch, Wilson would be the fastest OLB on the board. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Yes Faucet...I was looking at Martez as well, and think he could convert to an OLB. I like his position flexibility and can actually seem him playing both. I think we are very limited when it comes to SPikes. Part of me wonders why we drafted him in the first place. He limits our effectivness and flexibility on the field because he is a liability against the pass. Martez on the other hand can do both well I believe.
    I think he would have to be targeted near the top of round 2. I seem him going in the 1st third of round 2. The Pats could have him easily if we traded down a few spots from 33 to say 35/38 or so. He surely has rare size and speed for the ILB spot, and I think it would be an upgrade over Spikes, or use him outside opposite Cunningham. I have 2 questions on Martez and the ILB spot...
    1. Can he rush the passer? I want an OLB to be able to do this first and foremost.
    2. Seems like its getting crowded inside...Mayo, SPikes, Guyton, Fletcher, etc....Which one do you cut or trade?


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Yes Faucet...I was looking at Martez as well, and think he could convert to an OLB. I like his position flexibility and can actually seem him playing both. I think we are very limited when it comes to SPikes. Part of me wonders why we drafted him in the first place. He limits our effectivness and flexibility on the field because he is a liability against the pass. Martez on the other hand can do both well I believe. I think he would have to be targeted near the top of round 2. I seem him going in the 1st third of round 2. The Pats could have him easily if we traded down a few spots from 33 to say 35/38 or so. He surely has rare size and speed for the ILB spot, and I think it would be an upgrade over Spikes, or use him outside opposite Cunningham. I have 2 questions on Martez and the ILB spot... 1. Can he rush the passer? I want an OLB to be able to do this first and foremost. 2. Seems like its getting crowded inside...Mayo, SPikes, Guyton, Fletcher, etc....Which one do you cut or trade?
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    hi patslifer,
    i definitely let go of guyton. he,tbc, and meriweather are players i dont want to keep.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    ShiningWiz, respectfully disagree about being fine with Law Firm.  He's a great kid, but he is at no time a break-away threat.  He keeps the defense honest and not much more.  Hard worker.  I hope we get a big, bruising runner, 5 yards and a cloud of dust, run over people, etc.  I want someone who can run in inclement weather and who is a given around the goal line when the defense is stacked.  I think we fall in love with TB because he is so gifted, but we need that given back to beat defenses like the Jets, give 'em one more thing to worry about.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    reuter and rang from cbs sports both have the patriots taking aldon smith at 17.
    here's some of the analysis there:

     they describe him as tough against the rush, able to man handle even big tough o linemen, and a beast on the pass rush. at only a sophomore, they believe he is due to gain some muscle (at least 15 lbs). 

    being a sophomore, also beleive he is a risk.

    with these skill, if he played another year in college he'd be near the top and unreachable by th epats liklely. if belichick thinks he's a patriot kind of guy, he could be a no  brainer. i know a few of you guys like watt and a few kerrigan. smith seems like even mor epossible upside, while maybe watt is the safer pick.

    elsewhere i've seen nfl analysts agre with some of us here that olb is our #1 need. they peg reed, kerrigan and hmm gonna havge to check the 3rd.

    seems like reed may give us more options(being able to take him later) of taking better choices in the first 3 picks (ie better o lineman and better d lineman).
    have even read houston as more of a risk than reed at olb to be exceptional.
    he did do well against the sec though. still a reed pick give more capital with the earlier picks i think.


    01/08/2011 - Defensive end Aldon Smith, a redshirt sophomore, announced Friday that he, too, is heading for the NFL. But while the first-round prospect for Gabbert seems like a sure thing, it's a bit murkier with Smith, who only played two seasons at Mizzou and missed three games this year with a broken bone in his leg. Gil Brandt of ESPN.com, the longtime personnel director of the Dallas Cowboys, isn't sure that Smith is making the right choice. "I think that guys at that position, it's imperative that they get as much strength and maturity as possible," Brandt said. "Historically, I don't think it's a good move. ... He's got potential, no question. That's what you're banking on, his potential. "For whatever reason, that potential seems to come faster when they've played a full four years (in college). But only time will tell." - Bill Coats, St. Louis Post-Dispatch

     

  10. Full Aldon Smith News Wire
Overview

In only two years on the field, Smith earned enough respect from Big 12 coaches to be named first-team all-conference despite playing only nine games because of a broken fibula. He gained that respect with production (48 tackles, 10 for loss, 5.5 sacks), but also his ability to come back from a slightly fractured right leg in only three weeks.

A consensus freshman All-American and the conference's Defensive Newcomer and Freshman of the Year (along with honorable mention All-Big 12 honors) in 2009, he had 64 tackles -- 19 for loss and 11.5 sacks, both of which ranked in the top 15 nationally. The year before, he proved to scouts he would eventually be a force, dominating the scout team and putting on muscle as a redshirt.

In addition to his exceptional athletic ability, Smith's toughness has impressed scouts. While still obviously less than 100 percent, he returned an interception 58 yards in a big win against Oklahoma and managed six tackles for loss and 2.5 sacks in his final six games. He's still raw, but evaluators look at Smith as a potential John Abraham or Julian Peterson type of pass rusher with very good length to play in a 4-3 or 3-4 base scheme as he matures physically.

Analysis

Pass rush: Great length and upper-body development with room to grow and become a top-notch pass rusher. When given the green light to attack the passer, he is able to turn the corner or quickly go outside-in to get a more direct path to the QB. Uses strength to get movement in his bull rush; able to release with his hands to harass a scrambling passer. Moves inside to a three-technique spot on some plays to take advantage of his quickness, as well as his height, to disrupt passing lanes (seven pass breakups in 2009-2010). Jumps over and uses his hands to beat cut blocks.

Run defense: Potentially strong edge run defender as 4-3 end or 3-4 linebacker. Stays balanced out of his stance, extends his arms to keep distance, able to shed to get to the ball on either side of the block. Good backfield awareness. Willing to lower his shoulder and stand his ground against pulling guards and moving tight ends. Gets down the line while engaged to be involved on inside runs. Beats reach blocks to get into the backfield.

Explosion: Still more potential than practice as a pure outside pass rusher, but shows glimpses of explosive ability on the edge. Pops his man with big swipes to get past blockers. Brings a punch in his bull rush, sometimes knocking back even strong college tackles.

Strength: Plays stronger than his height/weight numbers indicate. Does not give up room when holding the line. Violent with his hands, able to push aside blockers when rushing the passer or shedding to chase ballcarriers. Still requires time in pro strength and conditioning to gain 15-20 pounds before becoming a three-down player as a 4-3 defensive end.

Tackling: Uses his long, strong arms to wrap up quarterbacks and ballcarriers in the backfield; can chop down hard to force fumbles. Speedy chase tackler who closes well for his size due to that length, hustle, and straight-line speed. Misses tackles when leaving his feet early or short-arming (ducking his head and not fully extending.)

Intangibles: Right fibula fractured against San Diego State in October 2010; fracture was high enough above ankle and below the knee so it could heal on its own without surgery. Returned just three weeks later and played hurt for the rest of the season. Only a redshirt sophomore, which is a positive given his upside, but some might view as negative given his relative lack of experience.

 
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I think Baldwin is probably the 3rd best WR at this point.  He has tremendous size and speed for his size.  He's an excellent down field blocker.  He has a great 18.3 career yards after catch without a very good QB.  My only concern is over his character.  He made some comments before he declared about Wannstedt complaining about how he was being used, etc.  Complaints about Wannstedt as a coach don't shock me but airing your dirty laundry isn't what BB looks for in a player so he probably doesn't have Baldwin on his board.  I think if we are looking for a big target, Hankerson would be a safer earlier pick. 

    Torrey Smith is really fast with pretty good size too.  Titus Young is a deep field threat but has some character issues.  Randall Cobb is probably the safest pick in terms of his character and overall versatility.  But, I think he's more of a slot receiver, special teamer and gimmick player.  But if we needed someone to add depth, Cobb would be a nice selection because he can do so many things for you and you know he will bust his butt in practice, the film room and in games.  Knowing that Green and Jones will be gone, I really think if we are looking for a WR high as in by pick 60, Baldwin, Hankerson, Cobb, Smith and Young would be the players I'd be studying most.

    But if WR is not a priority, there will be some very good players later on.  If rosters expand for an 18 game season I think we should add an extra WR. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    peter king just asked was very comfortable in saying he didnt think either side really WANTS to come to an agreement now (this early) and he said he doesnt see an agreement until some games are lost of the season. peter king is a respected voice in football. 

    i think he may have the pulse by being close to/having the ears of the parties involved. hopefully this mood changes.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    davis at footballsfuture has smith going to houston at 11 and us passing on watt and taking jordan at 17 (watt going to baltimore at 26).
    new england couldnt hope to hopefor a better player at this spot (17, than jordan).

    they have houston going to us at 28
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Low, To answer your question, yes I think both Watt and Jordan make a ton of sense at 17 though none of us know how BB feels about them.  Last year, they clearly had McCourty ranked ahead of Odrick (assuming they even had interest in him), but I'm not sure how that correlates to this years draft class. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    MB the correlation would be you do not "just" grade a player for the draft class he is in. Certainly you do that. 1,2,3 4, etc etc

    But you also say ok our #1 guy for us as an organization we value drafting no higher than x position.

    Teams and especially NE place a value on a player and do not wish to over draft from that set value if possible.

    What I am saying is that if they had a player who has all the similar talent, quickness, strength, stats, etc and even BETTER ideal measurables than either Watt or Jordan that they passed on last year at #28. It just doesn't seem super logical to assume they have all of a sudden assigned a new higher value to that same or similar player one year later.

    Especially with other options who can be argued as having similar abilities and better matching measurable available just a bit later.

    Perhaps I am just thinking Jordan and Watt are lighter than they actually are.

    I am not say they would not draft either of those guys nor am I saying they shouldn't. I do not have a problem with either. I like both.

    Simply the logic does not follow what they have done recently. They really like their 300 pounders. Especially a first rounder they expect to be an every down 16 games player.

    Sure they have had some lighter guys like Green and Wright but those guys were pass rush subs and not drafted mid 1st round.

    It might come down to what they feel the drop off is between the first tier of players at DE position and the 2nd grouping.

    Jordan 285
    Watt 290
    Claiborn 285
    Liuget 300
    Heyward 288
    Taylor 337
    Wilkerson 305
    Jenkins 309


    Rostered
    Wilfork 325 (21st)
    Ty Warren 300 (13th)
    Warren 330 (3rd)
    Brace 330 (40th)
    Deaderick 305 (247th)
    Wright 295
    Pryor 310 (207th)
    Love 310
    Weston 316 (248th)
    Richard 295 (234th)
    Cohen 300

    Past
    Seymour 310 (6th)
    J. Green 285 (126th)
    Mincey 270 (191st)
    Smith 308 (206th)
    Brown 285 (127th)

    Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out leading up to the draft. Peoples top 100's have already started moving quite a bit.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Agree on this almost completely. If you think there are no rush OLB's that are worthy of going with our pick 17, then 17 is slated for the DE spot? I think this is what you are saying, or perhaps use 17 on another position. It still might not be a bad idea to grab an OL with 17... Do you think 17 is too high for Aldon SMith? Does he fit the Pats system for the OLB spot? ALdon Smith goes 17 or earlier, Houston goes 17-28, Ayers I think goes 20-35 or so....BReed goes in the 55-65 range....  Bottomline, I want a day 1 starter as OLB for me in this draft, someone to take over for Nink and TBC. In fact, I would let TBC walk, keep Nink and draft another OLB in round 3-5. (KJ Wright) As far as DE's go, the 3 I want are Watt, Jordan or Wilkerson. I think Jordan goes 17 or earlier, Watt possibly 17-28, Wilkerson 28 to 35 or so....That's 3 tiers of potential DE's for our ssytem.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]
    Obviously we need to find a pass rusher.  I think you have slotted the choices about right and I don't take exception to anything you're saying.  A solid new LT at 17 is not far fetched and if Light leaves, it would become a bigger area of need.  But I want an impact player on defense that will help generate a pass rush.  Ideally it would be nice to find a stud 3-4 OLB that will get us 10-15 sacks a year.  Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan and Justin Houston would be the DEs most likely to get you sacks from the OLB position.  Ayers, Wright and Reed, they aren't sack machines.  Reed has 17 career sacks, 7 last year, 2 the year before.  Wright had just 8 career sacks and Ayers just 11 sacks but no more than 4 in one season.

    Quinn I think is a once-in-a-decade physical talent and reminds me of a shorter Julius Peppers.  He had 13 sacks but in two seasons.  Obviously he didn't play last year but he had 11 sacks as a sophomore in 2009.  Given that he is only 20 and will likely tear it up at the Combine, teams will be drooling over him but I doubt he'll be in reach for us.

    Von Miller has 28 sacks just in the past two years, 33 total.  He looked the part during SrB week.  I don't think him being a little underweight will affect his draft status.

    Ryan Kerrigan also had 33 career sacks with 25 coming the past two season.  He might actually be there at 17.  He is a solid citizen by all accounts.

    Justin Houston has 19 career sacks, 10 this year, 7 the year before and he's coming out after his junior season so he has been showing improvement.  Basically all he was asked to do is rush the passer at Georgia so he is an option at 28 but I don't think he makes it much later.

    Aldon Smith has 17 sacks in just two seasons, 11 as a freshman and 6 this year as a RS sophomore.  He got hurt in his third game this year and missed the next three games so we can't say he regressed.  We need to see how he looks in the LB drills at the Combine. 

    I'd say if Quinn or Miller are in striking distance from 17 and we can get to 11 with pick 60, it would be worth it to land one of those two players.  Taking Kerrigan at 17 or Houston at 28 would seem to be our next options until we getting a better look at Aldon Smith.  I'm not sure about him yet. 

    There's a chance Watt or Jordan slip to 28, but even if they don't, we have other options such as Wilkerson, Heyward or possibly Ballard if we even go that route with Ty Warren coming back.   
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    hay faucet,
    love the rationale of moveing up to get the player we need. i've been saying that since the end of the jets game (that we had to be willing to and that we needed geme changers at de, olb and o line through F.A. or draft, whatever it takes, and that we should consider trying to trade for next years overal #1 for andrew luck)).

    i've seen a lot of writers slotting miller at 5. 
    obviously you thinnk quinn is worth the risk.

    wonder how many other teams would risk him before 11?

    it's gonna be a crapshoot.

    question:
    if there's no cba till the season starts and all free agents have to play for what they made last year, and can't move, and the cap is finally in place, i
    wonder what that would mean for the jets 17 free agents (ie if they can't trade them, cant tag them all, but have to meet the salary cap)? would teaams get a chance to keep all free agents regardless of going over cap?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Obviously we need to find a pass rusher.  I think you have slotted the choices about right and I don't take exception to anything you're saying.  A solid new LT at 17 is not far fetched and if Light leaves, it would become a bigger area of need.  But I want an impact player on defense that will help generate a pass rush.  Ideally it would be nice to find a stud 3-4 OLB that will get us 10-15 sacks a year.  Von Miller, Robert Quinn, Ryan Kerrigan and Justin Houston would be the DEs most likely to get you sacks from the OLB position.  Ayers, Wright and Reed, they aren't sack machines.  Reed has 17 career sacks, 7 last year, 2 the year before.  Wright had just 8 career sacks and Ayers just 11 sacks but no more than 4 in one season. Quinn I think is a once-in-a-decade physical talent and reminds me of a shorter Julius Peppers.  He had 13 sacks but in two seasons.  Obviously he didn't play last year but he had 11 sacks as a sophomore in 2009.  Given that he is only 20 and will likely tear it up at the Combine, teams will be drooling over him but I doubt he'll be in reach for us. Von Miller has 28 sacks just in the past two years, 33 total.  He looked the part during SrB week.  I don't think him being a little underweight will affect his draft status. Ryan Kerrigan also had 33 career sacks with 25 coming the past two season.  He might actually be there at 17.  He is a solid citizen by all accounts. Justin Houston has 19 career sacks, 10 this year, 7 the year before and he's coming out after his junior season so he has been showing improvement.  Basically all he was asked to do is rush the passer at Georgia so he is an option at 28 but I don't think he makes it much later. Aldon Smith has 17 sacks in just two seasons, 11 as a freshman and 6 this year as a RS sophomore.  He got hurt in his third game this year and missed the next three games so we can't say he regressed.  We need to see how he looks in the LB drills at the Combine.  I'd say if Quinn or Miller are in striking distance from 17 and we can get to 11 with pick 60, it would be worth it to land one of those two players.  Taking Kerrigan at 17 or Houston at 28 would seem to be our next options until we getting a better look at Aldon Smith.  I'm not sure about him yet.  There's a chance Watt or Jordan slip to 28, but even if they don't, we have other options such as Wilkerson, Heyward or possibly Ballard if we even go that route with Ty Warren coming back.   
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    I think the guys you listed Kerrigan, Houston, Miller, Quinn are probably the highest impact potential DE converts to OLB regarding applying pressure off the edges. Of those 4, I think Miller is the safest bet, followed by Houston, Kerrigan and Quinn (I list Quinn last because of last year). Most mocks I have seen have Miller going top 10, if not top 5. Kerrigan I've seen 10-25 range, Quinn 5-20 range, Houston, 10-30 range.

    Miller in my mind is the closest player to a sure thing to play OLB in our system day 1. He is a bit light, but he plays heavier. He's played in a 3-4 (allbeit different from the Pats), but still a 3-4, is good against the pass and run and we all know he can get after the QB.

    Trading up from 17 to someplace in the 5-7 range is going to take a lot, but if you want to add an impact player at a sorely needed position, then why not. It would take us trading our 17 and 28 to make this happen, and even then we would be a few points short.

    I think Quinn although a bit cheaper to trade up for, is a big question mark for various reasons. Kerrigan, not sold on him as a 3-4 OLB, and Houston I like but not as much as Miller.

    Faucet/MB/Others...would you give up 17 and 28 for Miller?

    The next crop of potential players I think comes toward the beginning of round 2 with possibly Martez Wilson as a convert from ILB and possibly BReed.

    Toward the end of round 2, I think you have Sam Acho and that is where you might find Bruce Carter as well. I like Acho because he produced on a terrible Texas team, and has the measurables to play OLB at 6'3", 260. He could be a real option at the end of round 2 without giving up anything or having to trade up.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]I am relatively new at posting on this board, but aside from the Patriots games, the draft is my favorite part of the year, and I put a lot of work and time and thought into things. So here is my top 10 at each position, and in the next post I will put some more thoughts. Along with some PAtriots fits that I see. QB 1.        Andy Dalton, TCU 2.        Christian Ponder, Florida State 3.        Jake Locker, Washington 4.        Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 5.        Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 6.        Greg McElroy, Alabama 7.        Nathan Enderle, Idaho 8.        Cameron Newton, Auburn 9.        Ricky Stanzi, Iowa 10.    Pat Devlin, Delaware   RB            1.        Mark Ingram, Alabama 2.        Mikel LeShoure, Illinois 3.        Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 4.        Daniel Thomas, Kansas State 5.        Bilal Powell, Louisville 6.        Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State 7.        Demarco Murray, Oklahoma 8.        Taiwan Jones, Eastern Washington 9.        Derrick Locke, Kentucky 10.    Dion Lewis, RB, Pittsburgh WR 1.        AJ Green, Georgia 2.        Julio Jones, Alabama 3.        Leonard Hankerson, Miami 4.        Torrey Smith, Maryland 5.        Titus Young, Boise State 6.        Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh 7.        Jerel Jernigan, Troy 8.        Niles Paul, Nebraska 9.        Randall Cobb, Kentucky 10.    Vincent Brown, San Diego State TE 1.        Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2.        Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3.        Julius Thomas, Portland State 4.        DJ Williams, Arkansas 5.        Luke Stocker, Tennessee 6.        Charles Clay, Tulsa 7.        Wesley Saunders, South Carolina 8.        Lee Smith, Marshall 9.        Richard Gordon, Miami (FL) 10.    Mike McNiell, Nebraska OT 1.        Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 2.        Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 3.        Tyron Smith, Southern California 4.        Nate Solder, Colorado 5.        Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State 6.        Ben Ijalana, Villanova 7.        Marcus Gilbert, Florida 8.        Lee Ziemba, Auburn 9.        Jason Pinkston, Pittsburgh 10.    James Carpenter, Alabama   Interior-OL 1.        Rodney Hudson, Florida State 2.        John Moffitt, Wisconsin 3.        Marcus Cannon, TCU 4.        Mike Pouncey, Florida 5.        Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State 6.        Danny Watkins, Baylor 7.        Will Rackley, Leheigh 8.        Stephen Schilling, Michigan 9.        Kristopher O’Dowd, Southern California 10.    Zach Hurd, Connecticut 4-3 DE 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Da’quan Bowers, Clemson 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 6.        Brooks Reed, Arizona 7.        Jamaal Sheard, Pittsburgh 8.        Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma 9.        Sam Acho, Texas 10.    Allen Bailey, Miami 3-4 DE 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Cameron Jordan, California 3.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 4.        Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple 5.        Cameron Heyward, Ohio State 6.        Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson 7.        Christian Ballard, Iowa 8.        Kenrick Ellis, Hampton 9.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 10.    Lawrence Guy, Arizona State DT 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Nick Fairley, Auburn 3.        Stephen Paea, Oregon State 4.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 5.        Drake Nevis, LSU 6.        Corey Liuget, Illinois 7.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 8.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 9.        Sione Fua, Stanford 10.    Terell McClain, South Florida 4-3 OLB 1.        Bruce Carter, North Carolina 2.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 3.        Akeem Ayers, UCLA 4.        Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut 5.        Dontay Moch, Nevada 6.        Mason Foster, Washington 7.        Colin, McCarthy, Miami (FL) 8.        Ross Homan, Ohio State 9.        KJ Wright, Mississippi State 10.    Greg Lloyd, Connecticut 3-4 OLB 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 3.        Von Miller, Texas A&M 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Justin Houston, Georgia 6.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 7.        KJ Wright, Mississippi State 8.        Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma 9.        Tom Keiser, Stanford 10.    Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh ILB 1.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 2.        Martez Wilson, Illinois 3.        Scott Lutrus, Connecticut 4.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 5.        Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina 6.        Casey Matthews, Oregon 7.        Kelvin Sheppard, LSU 8.        Chris White, Mississippi State 9.        Nate Irving, NC State 10.    Bruce Miller, Central Florida   CB 1.        Patrick Peterson, LSU 2.        Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3.        Jimmy Smith, Colorado 4.        Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) 5.        Aaron Williams, Texas 6.        Ras-I Dowling, Virginia 7.        Jalil Smith, Colorado 8.        Curtis Brown, Texas 9.        Johnny Patrick, Louisville 10.    Kendrick Burney, North Carolina   S 1.        Rahim Moore, UCLA 2.        Ahmad Black, Florida 3.        DeAndre McDaniel, Clemson 4.        Quinton Carter, Oklahoma 5.        Robert Sands, West Virginia 6.        Duenta Williams, North Carolina 7.        Shiloh Keo, Idaho 8.        Eric Hagg, Nebraska 9.        Da’Norris Searcy, North Carolina 10. Jeron Johnson, Boise State
    Posted by sportslover21[/QUOTE]Welcome aboard, looking forward to your future  comments.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    What do guys think of the big WR myth?  Are they important?  Or can we get away with having a WR corps consisting of 5'10", 190lbs guys who are fast and lightning quick?

    There's a WR from Troy who fits our mold of WR and he runs a 4.32 40.  Will BB most likely go for him or a big bodied WR like Baldwin. 

    What's your prediction?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Let's suppose that a new CBA is worked out and FA begins on 3/4.  Somehow the Chiefs don't resign and/or franchise Tamba Hali, and Lamar Woodley is available as well(I know..it's a lot to assume).  Let's say the Pats sign one of these guys, how does that affect their approach to the first 3 picks in the draft?

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]I am relatively new at posting on this board, but aside from the Patriots games, the draft is my favorite part of the year, and I put a lot of work and time and thought into things. So here is my top 10 at each position, and in the next post I will put some more thoughts. Along with some PAtriots fits that I see. QB 1.        Andy Dalton, TCU 2.        Christian Ponder, Florida State 3.        Jake Locker, Washington 4.        Blaine Gabbert, Missouri 5.        Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 6.        Greg McElroy, Alabama 7.        Nathan Enderle, Idaho 8.        Cameron Newton, Auburn 9.        Ricky Stanzi, Iowa 10.    Pat Devlin, Delaware   RB            1.        Mark Ingram, Alabama 2.        Mikel LeShoure, Illinois 3.        Ryan Williams, Virginia Tech 4.        Daniel Thomas, Kansas State 5.        Bilal Powell, Louisville 6.        Kendall Hunter, Oklahoma State 7.        Demarco Murray, Oklahoma 8.        Taiwan Jones, Eastern Washington 9.        Derrick Locke, Kentucky 10.    Dion Lewis, RB, Pittsburgh WR 1.        AJ Green, Georgia 2.        Julio Jones, Alabama 3.        Leonard Hankerson, Miami 4.        Torrey Smith, Maryland 5.        Titus Young, Boise State 6.        Jon Baldwin, Pittsburgh 7.        Jerel Jernigan, Troy 8.        Niles Paul, Nebraska 9.        Randall Cobb, Kentucky 10.    Vincent Brown, San Diego State TE 1.        Kyle Rudolph, Notre Dame 2.        Lance Kendricks, Wisconsin 3.        Julius Thomas, Portland State 4.        DJ Williams, Arkansas 5.        Luke Stocker, Tennessee 6.        Charles Clay, Tulsa 7.        Wesley Saunders, South Carolina 8.        Lee Smith, Marshall 9.        Richard Gordon, Miami (FL) 10.    Mike McNiell, Nebraska OT 1.        Gabe Carimi, Wisconsin 2.        Anthony Castonzo, Boston College 3.        Tyron Smith, Southern California 4.        Nate Solder, Colorado 5.        Derek Sherrod, Mississippi State 6.        Ben Ijalana, Villanova 7.        Marcus Gilbert, Florida 8.        Lee Ziemba, Auburn 9.        Jason Pinkston, Pittsburgh 10.    James Carpenter, Alabama   Interior-OL 1.        Rodney Hudson, Florida State 2.        John Moffitt, Wisconsin 3.        Marcus Cannon, TCU 4.        Mike Pouncey, Florida 5.        Stefen Wisniewski, Penn State 6.        Danny Watkins, Baylor 7.        Will Rackley, Leheigh 8.        Stephen Schilling, Michigan 9.        Kristopher O’Dowd, Southern California 10.    Zach Hurd, Connecticut 4-3 DE 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Da’quan Bowers, Clemson 3.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 6.        Brooks Reed, Arizona 7.        Jamaal Sheard, Pittsburgh 8.        Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma 9.        Sam Acho, Texas 10.    Allen Bailey, Miami 3-4 DE 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Cameron Jordan, California 3.        JJ Watt, Wisconsin 4.        Muhammed Wilkerson, Temple 5.        Cameron Heyward, Ohio State 6.        Jarvis Jenkins, Clemson 7.        Christian Ballard, Iowa 8.        Kenrick Ellis, Hampton 9.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 10.    Lawrence Guy, Arizona State DT 1.        Marcell Dareus, Alabama 2.        Nick Fairley, Auburn 3.        Stephen Paea, Oregon State 4.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 5.        Drake Nevis, LSU 6.        Corey Liuget, Illinois 7.        Marvin Austin, North Carolina 8.        Phil Taylor, Baylor 9.        Sione Fua, Stanford 10.    Terell McClain, South Florida 4-3 OLB 1.        Bruce Carter, North Carolina 2.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 3.        Akeem Ayers, UCLA 4.        Lawrence Wilson, Connecticut 5.        Dontay Moch, Nevada 6.        Mason Foster, Washington 7.        Colin, McCarthy, Miami (FL) 8.        Ross Homan, Ohio State 9.        KJ Wright, Mississippi State 10.    Greg Lloyd, Connecticut 3-4 OLB 1.        Robert Quinn, North Carolina 2.        Aldon Smith, Missouri 3.        Von Miller, Texas A&M 4.        Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue 5.        Justin Houston, Georgia 6.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 7.        KJ Wright, Mississippi State 8.        Jeremy Beal, Oklahoma 9.        Tom Keiser, Stanford 10.    Jabaal Sheard, Pittsburgh ILB 1.        Mark Herzlich, Boston College 2.        Martez Wilson, Illinois 3.        Scott Lutrus, Connecticut 4.        Greg Jones, Michigan State 5.        Quan Sturdivant, North Carolina 6.        Casey Matthews, Oregon 7.        Kelvin Sheppard, LSU 8.        Chris White, Mississippi State 9.        Nate Irving, NC State 10.    Bruce Miller, Central Florida   CB 1.        Patrick Peterson, LSU 2.        Prince Amukamara, Nebraska 3.        Jimmy Smith, Colorado 4.        Brandon Harris, Miami (FL) 5.        Aaron Williams, Texas 6.        Ras-I Dowling, Virginia 7.        Jalil Smith, Colorado 8.        Curtis Brown, Texas 9.        Johnny Patrick, Louisville 10.    Kendrick Burney, North Carolina   S 1.        Rahim Moore, UCLA 2.        Ahmad Black, Florida 3.        DeAndre McDaniel, Clemson 4.        Quinton Carter, Oklahoma 5.        Robert Sands, West Virginia 6.        Duenta Williams, North Carolina 7.        Shiloh Keo, Idaho 8.        Eric Hagg, Nebraska 9.        Da’Norris Searcy, North Carolina 10. Jeron Johnson, Boise State
    Posted by sportslover21[/QUOTE]

    sl,
    Welcome to the board/thread.  Nice work, some debatable picks there, but nothing too crazy, outside of QB.  I'm curious of your thought process for ranking Andy Dalton #1 overall at QB while Gabbert (head and shoulders the best QB prospect available) is all the way down at #4, behind the likes of Ponder and Locker.

    Interesting pick with Scott Lutrus as your #3 ILB.  He seems a little out of place there as most publications have him as a 7th round/URFA, so I wanted to research him a bit and see if I could find any tape on him.  He's a good sized kid (listed at 6-3 245) that looks to have some pretty good speed, quicks, is an active player with decent instincts that fills downhill quickly and seems to be around the football a lot, evident by his 213 total tackles (17 TFL) as a Freshman/107/9 and Sophmore/106/8.  He's since seen his production decline with 69 as a Junior and 59 as a Senior and he's also had some neck/stinger problems which will need to be looked into (neck problems for a LB aren't a good thing).  He is however, a player that I will keep an eye on.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : MB the correlation would be you do not "just" grade a player for the draft class he is in. Certainly you do that. 1,2,3 4, etc etc But you also say ok our #1 guy for us as an organization we value drafting no higher than x position. Teams and especially NE place a value on a player and do not wish to over draft from that set value if possible. What I am saying is that if they had a player who has all the similar talent, quickness, strength, stats, etc and even BETTER ideal measurables than either Watt or Jordan that they passed on last year at #28. It just doesn't seem super logical to assume they have all of a sudden assigned a new higher value to that same or similar player one year later. Especially with other options who can be argued as having similar abilities and better matching measurable available just a bit later. Perhaps I am just thinking Jordan and Watt are lighter than they actually are. I am not say they would not draft either of those guys nor am I saying they shouldn't. I do not have a problem with either. I like both. Simply the logic does not follow what they have done recently. They really like their 300 pounders. Especially a first rounder they expect to be an every down 16 games player. Sure they have had some lighter guys like Green and Wright but those guys were pass rush subs and not drafted mid 1st round. It might come down to what they feel the drop off is between the first tier of players at DE position and the 2nd grouping. Jordan 285 Watt 290 Claiborn 285 Liuget 300 Heyward 288 Taylor 337 Wilkerson 305 Jenkins 309 Rostered Wilfork 325 (21st) Ty Warren 300 (13th) Warren 330 (3rd) Brace 330 (40th) Deaderick 305 (247th) Wright 295 Pryor 310 (207th) Love 310 Weston 316 (248th) Richard 295 (234th) Cohen 300 Past Seymour 310 (6th) J. Green 285 (126th) Mincey 270 (191st) Smith 308 (206th) Brown 285 (127th) Should be interesting to see how it all shakes out leading up to the draft. Peoples top 100's have already started moving quite a bit.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Low,
    I see what you're saying, but we don't know what BB thought of Odrick (outside of his ideal size) so it's impossible to gauge what kind of grade they had on him.  The same essentially goes for Watt/Jordan etc., this year.  We know Jordan is undersized based on their preferences and we'll know Watt's true weight at the combine.  Overall, BB seems to place a premium on big, talented DE prospects (Seymour 6th overall, Warren 13th overall) so I don't think 17 is out of the question, assuming they like one of these kids.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]Let's suppose that a new CBA is worked out and FA begins on 3/4.  Somehow the Chiefs don't resign and/or franchise Tamba Hali, and Lamar Woodley is available as well(I know..it's a lot to assume).  Let's say the Pats sign one of these guys, how does that affect their approach to the first 3 picks in the draft?
    Posted by ShiningWizard[/QUOTE]

    Obviously that lowers our need for an OLB.  I still would like to add one in rd 2-3 even in that case.  Ptt does that and always has the best stable of OLBs. 
    I think we can move DE and OL to rd 1, c/OG to rd 2 along with RB or WR as a luxury pick.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]hay faucet, love the rationale of moveing up to get the player we need. i've been saying that since the end of the jets game (that we had to be willing to and that we needed geme changers at de, olb and o line through F.A. or draft, whatever it takes, and that we should consider trying to trade for next years overal #1 for andrew luck)). i've seen a lot of writers slotting miller at 5.  obviously you thinnk quinn is worth the risk. wonder how many other teams would risk him before 11? it's gonna be a crapshoot. question: if there's no cba till the season starts and all free agents have to play for what they made last year, and can't move, and the cap is finally in place, i wonder what that would mean for the jets 17 free agents (ie if they can't trade them, cant tag them all, but have to meet the salary cap)? would teaams get a chance to keep all free agents regardless of going over cap?
    Posted by cbdam[/QUOTE]
    You're question is beyond my knowledge so will defer to someone else.  I have no idea what would happen to teams already over the cap.  I assume they would have to cut players or restructure contracts.  Those cut player can probably sign with a new team once there is a new CBA.

    Quinn made a dumb move when he was what, 18, 19?  He accepted a couple of gold watches from an agent.  Obviously that's a red flag but that's all I've heard about him off the field.  If there are other questions, if he's into drugs, beats his dog or anything like that, I'd keep away from him.  But, I think we can overlook a dumb youthful mistake if he otherwise checks out and interviews well.  Yes, I would make the move from 17 to 11 for either Quinn or Miller. 

    BB has already said he's been hearing from teams looking to trade down.  Our 33 and 17 gets us to #7.  Our 17 and 28 gets us to #5.  All three picks, 17, 28 and 33 get us to #3 with a 4th rounder (99) coming back.  At #3 at least one of these guys would be there; Fairley, Bowers, Peterson or Dareus.  I would not give up the 3 picks, but I would consider giving up 17 and 28 to move to #5 if one of these guys is there.  Better yet, 17 and 33 to get to #7 for one of Fairley, Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller.  You got to figure Green and Gabbert should be coming off in the top 6, if both do, two of the aforementioned will be there at 7 and SF is a common trading partner. 

    Think about it, we had the best record in football.  We only have 2 key F/A and we might be able to keep them both.  We have a starting CB and DE returning from injury.  We could have a top 7 pick and draft a big time pass rusher or land a stud DE, and still have another 1st, pick 28 and a 2nd round pick, 60 and a pair of 3rds.  

    If we keep Mankins and Light and do the above, we could have a draft like this.

    #7   OLB Quinn or Miller
    #28  DE JJ Watt
    #60  WR Titus Young
    #74  OG John Moffitt
    #92  OLB Sam Acho
    #124 RB John Clay
    #6C  RB Mario Fannin


     
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I think the guys you listed Kerrigan, Houston, Miller, Quinn are probably the highest impact potential DE converts to OLB regarding applying pressure off the edges. Of those 4, I think Miller is the safest bet, followed by Houston, Kerrigan and Quinn (I list Quinn last because of last year). Most mocks I have seen have Miller going top 10, if not top 5. Kerrigan I've seen 10-25 range, Quinn 5-20 range, Houston, 10-30 range. Miller in my mind is the closest player to a sure thing to play OLB in our system day 1. He is a bit light, but he plays heavier. He's played in a 3-4 (allbeit different from the Pats), but still a 3-4, is good against the pass and run and we all know he can get after the QB. Trading up from 17 to someplace in the 5-7 range is going to take a lot, but if you want to add an impact player at a sorely needed position, then why not. It would take us trading our 17 and 28 to make this happen, and even then we would be a few points short. I think Quinn although a bit cheaper to trade up for, is a big question mark for various reasons. Kerrigan, not sold on him as a 3-4 OLB, and Houston I like but not as much as Miller. Faucet/MB/Others...would you give up 17 and 28 for Miller? The next crop of potential players I think comes toward the beginning of round 2 with possibly Martez Wilson as a convert from ILB and possibly BReed. Toward the end of round 2, I think you have Sam Acho and that is where you might find Bruce Carter as well. I like Acho because he produced on a terrible Texas team, and has the measurables to play OLB at 6'3", 260. He could be a real option at the end of round 2 without giving up anything or having to trade up.
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    PL,
    I'm on record as saying I think Miller would get mauled trying to set the edge in the run game as a 3-4 OLB and do not see him as a fit (3 or 4 down player) for their scheme.  I don't see any scenario in which they give up 17 and 28 to get him, the value just isn't their, IMO.

    I see them targeting kids like Reed or Beal or Acho or Keiser or Elmore etc., in Rds 2-4.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Before anyone goes all goofy talking about trade ups for an every down AND pass rush OLB type, have a look at some history.

    I will make the argument right here and now that in the last DECADE there have only been 2 impact players selected at #17 or higher(lower draft #) that have been DE to 3-4 OLB converts.

    You are going to have to give up draft picks and pay that player much more money so you better be DARN sure you know how to pick that 1-2 players that comes along in a decade.

    Goodluck with that!

    Here is the data.

    Notable DE convert to 3-4 OLB picks #17 or higher (or close enough)
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    aaron maybin         11th (Bust)
    robert ayers          18th
    vernon gholston     6th (Bust)
    jarvis moss           17th (Bust)
    tamba hali             20th
    demarcus ware       11th
    marcus spears        20th
    terrell suggs          10th
    calvin pace           18th





    Consistent Sack leaders 3-4 OLB in past decade
    ----------------------------------------------
    demarcus ware     11th
    tamba hali           20th
    cameron wake?     UDFA (1 year but looks real deal)
    clay mathews Jr   26th
    terrell suggs        10th
    shaun phillips       98th
    james harrison     UDFA
    lamarr woodley     46th
    kamerion wimbley  13th (up/down some call a disappointment)
    elvis dumervil       126th
    joey porter          73rd
    shawn merriman    12th (impact while on juice)
    adalius thomas     186th
    rosevelt colvin     111th

    Perhaps a player like Quinn is the next demarcus ware, who knows. I am not a gambler. You have to be CERTAIN to make that kind of move.

    There is also no way I am going up to get a MIller cause he is not going to be able to set the edge in the Patriots system. Not happening. ..and i do not know what BB thinks these days but based on his D system to date the Pats would not seem to pay a premium for a specialist.
     
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