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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : You're question is beyond my knowledge so will defer to someone else.  I have no idea what would happen to teams already over the cap.  I assume they would have to cut players or restructure contracts.  Those cut player can probably sign with a new team once there is a new CBA. Quinn made a dumb move when he was what, 18, 19?  He accepted a couple of gold watches from an agent.  Obviously that's a red flag but that's all I've heard about him off the field.  If there are other questions, if he's into drugs, beats his dog or anything like that, I'd keep away from him.  But, I think we can overlook a dumb youthful mistake if he otherwise checks out and interviews well.  Yes, I would make the move from 17 to 11 for either Quinn or Miller.  BB has already said he's been hearing from teams looking to trade down.  Our 33 and 17 gets us to #7.  Our 17 and 28 gets us to #5.  All three picks, 17, 28 and 33 get us to #3 with a 4th rounder (99) coming back.  At #3 at least one of these guys would be there; Fairley, Bowers, Peterson or Dareus.  I would not give up the 3 picks, but I would consider giving up 17 and 28 to move to #5 if one of these guys is there.  Better yet, 17 and 33 to get to #7 for one of Fairley, Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller .  You got to figure Green and Gabbert should be coming off in the top 6, if both do, two of the aforementioned will be there at 7 and SF is a common trading partner.  Think about it, we had the best record in football.  We only have 2 key F/A and we might be able to keep them both.  We have a starting CB and DE returning from injury.  We could have a top 7 pick and draft a big time pass rusher or land a stud DE, and still have another 1st, pick 28 and a 2nd round pick, 60 and a pair of 3rds.   If we keep Mankins and Light and do the above, we could have a draft like this. #7   OLB Quinn or Miller #28  DE JJ Watt #60  WR Titus Young #74  OG John Moffitt #92  OLB Sam Acho #124 RB John Clay #6C  RB Mario Fannin  
    Posted by Faucetman


    to mb, faucet et al.
        the point is i'd be willing to trade up to get the dominant player(s) we need.
    if bb identifies a beast at the 3 positions we've been discussing (o and d line, olb), every choice is  a risk, up or down, if we dont get what we need through F.A., going for the potential greats instead of the avg is what we need at this point in time with our team.
        no one else with an opinion on going for the andrew luck pick next year?


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MordecaiBloodmoon. Show MordecaiBloodmoon's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    On Luck, sure we want him, but I dont want to trade up from 32 *smile* to get him since it would take almost all of our draft.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers.

    Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    If we are looking for pure pass rushers, and willing to trade up, maybe we should be talking about Bowers.  The interesting thing with Bowers is he just woke up one day and became a pass rusher.  He had 1 sack in '08, 3 sacks in '09 then went insane in 2010 with 16 sacks.  Did he start juicing or did he learn a few new moves?  I have no idea.

    The same thing with Nick Fairley.  He had 1 sack in 2009 and nobody even knew his name then in 2010 he puts up 12 sacks and is a top 3 pick.  What if this one year was a fluke?

    Cameron Jordan on the other hand had 1 sack in 2007, then 4 in '08 then 6 in '09 and again in '10.  At least he has some track record but just 6 sacks as the most in any one year.  He got them against Colorado (I wonder if he was going against Solder), Arizona, UCLA, Oregon State and Washington State.  He was shut out against UC Davis, Nevada, USC, Arizona State, Oregon, Stanford and Washington so he didn't do well against some of the better teams like Nevada, Oregon and Stanford. 

    We really need to see who had good sack numbers against good OLs.  Bowers went up against some solid lines like Auburn, BC and Florida State.

    Kerrigan went up againt some dogs like Notre Dame, Western Illinois, Ball State, Toledo, Northwestern and had 4 sacks against Michigan.  The only decent OLs he faced were against Ohio State and Michigan State.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rocky. Show Rocky's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Ryan Williams Scouting report

    http://nfldraftgeek.com/rwilliams.html
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucet - Kerrigan has a proven track record

    08' 7 sacks 11.5 TFL, 09' 11 sacks 17 TFL, 10' 12.5 sacks 26 TFL

    That shows one heck of a solid track record imo so just saying that he ate up on weaker lines in 10' wouldn't explain how he managed to be a great pass rusher from 08-10'. That's a more solid track record then Miller

    With Reed he's got about the same sack and TFL numbers as most the potential OLB's but the thing that really impressed me about him and well Kerrigan is during senior bowl week they were put against the best T's and G's and both found ways to get to the QB. No matter what competition they played during the season when you look at the numbers then look at how they performed in the senior practices they are legit pass rushers
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers. Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
    Posted by Faucetman



    You could argue they are in sub because they do not have the every down talent anymore to stay in the base 3-4 package more often as they should.

    Why draft to stay in  something you are doing out of necessity and to best match your current personnel? Why not draft to get back to having the horses to stay more in your base 3-4?

    Miller is most often compared to elvis dumervil. Dumervil was not a high first round pick, a 4th rounder I believe,  and although dumervil has been good for sacks he's been a giant liability for Denver stopping the run.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    If we are looking for pure pass rushers, and willing to trade up, maybe we should be talking about Bowers.  The interesting thing with Bowers is he just woke up one day and became a pass rusher.  He had 1 sack in '08, 3 sacks in '09 then went insane in 2010 with 16 sacks.  Did he start juicing or did he learn a few new moves?  I have no idea. The same thing with Nick Fairley.  He had 1 sack in 2009 and nobody even knew his name then in 2010 he puts up 12 sacks and is a top 3 pick.  What if this one year was a fluke? Cameron Jordan on the other hand had 1 sack in 2007, then 4 in '08 then 6 in '09 and again in '10.  At least he has some track record but just 6 sacks as the most in any one year.  He got them against Colorado (I wonder if he was going against Solder), Arizona, UCLA, Oregon State and Washington State.  He was shut out against UC Davis, Nevada, USC, Arizona State, Oregon, Stanford and Washington so he didn't do well against some of the better teams like Nevada, Oregon and Stanford.  We really need to see who had good sack numbers against good OLs.  Bowers went up against some solid lines like Auburn, BC and Florida State. Kerrigan went up againt some dogs like Notre Dame, Western Illinois, Ball State, Toledo, Northwestern and had 4 sacks against Michigan.  The only decent OLs he faced were against Ohio State and Michigan State.
    Posted by Faucetman



    I forget where i read it now but someone wrote a big article on this and part of it was an interview with Bowers asking him the very question point blank.

    To try and paraphrase from memory. He basically said he was a joke at first and didn't apply himself to his craft or to anything in general. Someone dies in his family. His dad or something and he became the defacto head of the family and it really hit home and woke him up to being a man and being responsible.

    So basically yes he did just kind of wake up one day and started being serious. Obviously a traumatic life changing event helps. ;-)
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Lets face it. The Pats are going to pick nobody we expect. I hope they draft a stud RB and all Oline and Dline. The rest if fine
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Here's my take on the choices you gave; #17 Anthony Castonzo #28 Justin Houston #33 Muhammad Wilkerson #60 Danny Watkins #74 Mark Herzlich #92 Daniel Thomas #124 Greg Romeus This is based on your list above. I would much rather pencil in a WR at #74, and there should be quite a few good ones available then....
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I updated my list... both brown and cobb just appear in the low 100's on the value board I was using and there really isn't any WR in the #74 area in the current revision. The Patriots have always shown that their value board is vastly different than the general consensus.

    As i wrote in my post you could had taken a player from a later group and selected him earlier. (i.e brown from the #92 group and selected him with the #74 pick)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I forget where i read it now but someone wrote a big article on this and part of it was an interview with Bowers asking him the very question point blank. To try and paraphrase from memory. He basically said he was a joke at first and didn't apply himself to his craft or to anything in general. Someone dies in his family. His dad or something and he became the defacto head of the family and it really hit home and woke him up to being a man and being responsible. So basically yes he did just kind of wake up one day and started being serious. Obviously a traumatic life changing event helps. ;-)
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    It's a nice story but it works both ways. If he had to become the head of the house and it woke him up he cuold have easily seen the best way to take care of his family was to make it big in the NFL and the easiest way to do that is suddenly spike your numbers by juicing up and being selected high. I hope it isn't the case cause he does have a good story but for everyone that suddenly wakes up and is clean there are as many who will do anything to make it big. I'd still be cautious of that sudden spike and do my homework before drafting him.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers. Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
    Posted by Faucetman


    Faucet,
    I'm not sure that 57% sub packages necessarily means that 57% of the time they're in a 4-3 set (I could be wrong).  To me, it means that they're not in their base 3-4 set 57% of the time, instead aligning in some 3-4 variation or 4-3 package or another alignment.

    It'd be nice for the person who came up with the 57% sub package figure (was it Reis?) to identify the different alignments and applicable percentage of plays in said alignments.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : It's a nice story but it works both ways. If he had to become the head of the house and it woke him up he cuold have easily seen the best way to take care of his family was to make it big in the NFL and the easiest way to do that is suddenly spike your numbers by juicing up and being selected high. I hope it isn't the case cause he does have a good story but for everyone that suddenly wakes up and is clean there are as many who will do anything to make it big. I'd still be cautious of that sudden spike and do my homework before drafting him.
    Posted by PatsEng



    I am not advocating trading up for him just answering with one proposed reason for the change, as it was written.

    I already cleary stated my case on page #109 on why I am against trading up for a 3-4 OLB pass rusher.

    The history does not support it with nearly enough fruequency.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I am not advocating trading up for him just answering with one proposed reason for the change, as it was written. I already cleary stated my case on page #109 on why I am against trading up for a 3-4 OLB pass rusher. The history does not support it with nearly enough fruequency.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I hear yeah. I know it was just one page ago but honestly I stopped reading back pages after I took a couple days off from the boards  : p

    It's just great when you have to point out pages and they are in the 100's lol
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    You are the best mb07! Sometime soon, could you also go over the 2009, 2010 Pats picks and give them/us a grade and future potential advisory?   Thanks!
    Posted by PetesCall


    PC,
    Thanks for the kind words.  I'm just a huge Pat's fan that also loves the draft!

    Overall, I love this draft class and the early returns has been extremely positive, yielding 2 starters on offense and another 3-4 on defense to go along with a starting punter.

    Using a baseline of "C" for average NFL starter, I'll apply the below grades:

    Devin McCourty- A+:  Has been one of the biggest impact defenders in this class and looks like a potential All-Pro type talent.

    Rob Gronkowski- B+: Solid rookie season and can impact as both a receiver and blocker, definite pro-bowl potential with maybe All-Pro potential down the road.

    Jermaine Cunningham- C: Has flashed some ability, but still has a ways to go.  Starting as a rookie is a good way to kick off your career though.

    Brandon Spikes- C:  Solid run defender, needs work in coverage.  He also needs to make better decisions off the field.  Should be the starter along side Mayo next season.

    Taylor Price- Incomplete:  Flashed some ability when given some PT, but he didn't get enough burn to formulate a grade, IMO.  I think he's a kid that plays a bigger role in their offense in 2011.

    Aaron Hernandez- B: Versatile player with big time potential.  He tailed off toward the end of the season, but looks like a huge part of their offense moving forward.

    Zoltan Mesko- C:  NE was 19th in the NFL in gross yards per punt and 13th in net yards per punt. He didn't have a ton of chances as NE was 29th in the NFL with only 58 punts and the early snapping issues with Jake Ingram, certainly didn't help.  He has a good leg and I think he turns into an above average punter. 

    Brandon Deaderick- C-:  Got some burn with the ones as a 7th Rd rookie, but he needs to focus and improve his off field habits if he wants to stick around.  I think he can provide solid depth along the DL if he smartens up.

    I'm not going to grade the drafted players that didn't play for NE:  Larsen/Welch/Weston/Robinson.

    As for the URFA's, I'm really high on Dane Fletcher is a potential break out type player next season and I like what I've seen from Sergio Brown in limited snaps, he's also a solid special teams guy.  Kyle Love was forced into a starting role late in the season and could be a solid potential DL rotation guy, though I think they look to upgrade the overall depth of the DL.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : PC, Thanks for the kind words.  I'm just a huge Pat's fan that also loves the draft! Overall, I love this draft class and the early returns has been extremely positive, yielding 2 starters on offense and another 3-4 on defense to go along with a starting punter. Using a baseline of "C" for average NFL starter, I'll apply the below grades: Devin McCourty - A+:  Has been one of the biggest impact defenders in this class and looks like a potential All-Pro type talent. Rob Gronkowski - B+: Solid rookie season and can impact as both a receiver and blocker, definite pro-bowl potential with maybe All-Pro potential down the road. Jermaine Cunningham - C: Has flashed some ability, but still has a ways to go.  Starting as a rookie is a good way to kick off your career though. Brandon Spikes - C:  Solid run defender, needs work in coverage.  He also needs to make better decisions off the field.  Should be the starter along side Mayo next season. Taylor Price - Incomplete:  Flashed some ability when given some PT, but he didn't get enough burn to formulate a grade, IMO.  I think he's a kid that plays a bigger role in their offense in 2011. Aaron Hernandez - B: Versatile player with big time potential.  He tailed off toward the end of the season, but looks like a huge part of their offense moving forward. Zoltan Mesko - C:  NE was 19th in the NFL in gross yards per punt and 13th in net yards per punt. He didn't have a ton of chances as NE was 29th in the NFL with only 58 punts and the early snapping issues with Jake Ingram, certainly didn't help.  He has a good leg and I think he turns into an above average punter.  Brandon Deaderick - C-:  Got some burn with the ones as a 7th Rd rookie, but he needs to focus and improve his off field habits if he wants to stick around.  I think he can provide solid depth along the DL if he smartens up. I'm not going to grade the drafted players that didn't play for NE:  Larsen/Welch/Weston/Robinson. As for the URFA's, I'm really high on Dane Fletcher is a potential break out type player next season and I like what I've seen from Sergio Brown in limited snaps, he's also a solid special teams guy.  Kyle Love was forced into a starting role late in the season and could be a solid potential DL rotation guy, though I think they look to upgrade the overall depth of the DL.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Larsen ended up starting and drawing rave reviews at Guard for Tampa Bay.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Faucet - Kerrigan has a proven track record 08' 7 sacks 11.5 TFL, 09' 11 sacks 17 TFL, 10' 12.5 sacks 26 TFL That shows one heck of a solid track record imo so just saying that he ate up on weaker lines in 10' wouldn't explain how he managed to be a great pass rusher from 08-10'. That's a more solid track record then Miller With Reed he's got about the same sack and TFL numbers as most the potential OLB's but the thing that really impressed me about him and well Kerrigan is during senior bowl week they were put against the best T's and G's and both found ways to get to the QB. No matter what competition they played during the season when you look at the numbers then look at how they performed in the senior practices they are legit pass rushers
    Posted by PatsEng

    I'm not knocking Kerrigan or anyone else, I'm just saying it would be helpful to look at the level of competition that some of these sack leaders had.  I agree, Kerrigan and Jordan looked great the whole Senior Bowl week.  I caught every practice.  Problem is we don't get to see the declared underclassmen play in another game after they've declared.  Bowers, Houston, Ayers, Smith and Quinn; these guys are a bit unknown and risky.  A lot of so called draft experts don't even look at the underclassmen until about a month after they declare and really don't start making their evaluations until the Combine.  Mike Mayock is a classic example.  He doesn't even think about the underclassmen, except for maybe a handful that are hard to ignore, until about now.  He's still learning about some of these guys that we've been talking about for awhile. 

    I'm not 100% sold on Miller, Kerrigan or any OLB type at this point.  We haven't had the Combine yet.  That is where things start to solidify for me.  My only point about trading up to get an elite pass rusher is if we could and the player was a pretty certain stud, that we have the ammo to go do it.  I'd be just as happy sitting tight and taking Watt or Jordan at 17.  Better play from the DL means more opportunities for the LBs.

    The OLB position for some reason is hard to draft.  It's probably because most of the time we are looking at converting DEs.  That's a bit like taking a pitcher and telling him to play outfield.  We might be a whole lot better off going after a F/A OLB and worry about other positions in the draft.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I see your point Faucet but even though we have the ammo to move up I still feel that 1 of Kerrigan, Smith, Watt, or Jordan will be there at 17. If we were going to move up I'd rather it be #60 to get into the early 40's late 30's truthfully. I say that because I think we can get an impact D player at 17 whether that be OLB or DE and an impact player at 28 on OL. #33 is a toss up in the air whether to trade back or there are OLB's, OL's and DE's that can be there as well. Taking #60 and moving early into the round gets you a good shot at one of the better WR's (Baldwin or Hankerson) or RB's (Leshoure or Williams) or even another good OL. Imagine coming out of the draft with a combination of the best rushing DE, rushing OLB, T, G/C, RB, or WR. 4 picks in the top 45 would fix most of the holes.

    OLB is really hard to draft for which is one reason I wouldn't move up for one. When I look at DE's to transition over to OLB's I look for players who can stand up and have played in a system that has asked them to stand up and sometimes cover. When Kerrigan first asked to stand up he looked a bit awkward but he seemed to get stronger during senior week and by the end he looked like he was getting the hang of it. Reed on the other hand looked completely natural standing up. Some who didn't and I don't think can translate are Beal and Bailey. They will either be 4-3 DE's or someone will fall in love with their numbers and try them out as 3-4 OLB's but I just don't see them succeeding at the position. It's funny at the beginning of the season both Beal and Bailey were considered top 20 picks now they might even fall out of the 2nd
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : PC, Thanks for the kind words.  I'm just a huge Pat's fan that also loves the draft! Overall, I love this draft class and the early returns has been extremely positive, yielding 2 starters on offense and another 3-4 on defense to go along with a starting punter. Using a baseline of "C" for average NFL starter, I'll apply the below grades: Devin McCourty - A+:  Has been one of the biggest impact defenders in this class and looks like a potential All-Pro type talent. Rob Gronkowski - B+: Solid rookie season and can impact as both a receiver and blocker, definite pro-bowl potential with maybe All-Pro potential down the road. Jermaine Cunningham - C: Has flashed some ability, but still has a ways to go.  Starting as a rookie is a good way to kick off your career though. Brandon Spikes - C:  Solid run defender, needs work in coverage.  He also needs to make better decisions off the field.  Should be the starter along side Mayo next season. Taylor Price - Incomplete:  Flashed some ability when given some PT, but he didn't get enough burn to formulate a grade, IMO.  I think he's a kid that plays a bigger role in their offense in 2011. Aaron Hernandez - B: Versatile player with big time potential.  He tailed off toward the end of the season, but looks like a huge part of their offense moving forward. Zoltan Mesko - C:  NE was 19th in the NFL in gross yards per punt and 13th in net yards per punt. He didn't have a ton of chances as NE was 29th in the NFL with only 58 punts and the early snapping issues with Jake Ingram, certainly didn't help.  He has a good leg and I think he turns into an above average punter.  Brandon Deaderick - C-:  Got some burn with the ones as a 7th Rd rookie, but he needs to focus and improve his off field habits if he wants to stick around.  I think he can provide solid depth along the DL if he smartens up. I'm not going to grade the drafted players that didn't play for NE:  Larsen/Welch/Weston/Robinson. As for the URFA's, I'm really high on Dane Fletcher is a potential break out type player next season and I like what I've seen from Sergio Brown in limited snaps, he's also a solid special teams guy.  Kyle Love was forced into a starting role late in the season and could be a solid potential DL rotation guy, though I think they look to upgrade the overall depth of the DL.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    This was a phenomonal draft for the Patriots.  It would have been perfect if they had picked Dunlap over Cunningham.  Find me another guy who is 6'6 and 280Lbs, runs 4.6, and had two years of big-time production at the college level. What a regretable miss! Here is a hypothetical question: who would you pick: JJ Watt at #17 or Dunlap with DUI at #54? Had we picked Dunlap, we would have won the Super Bowl.  Can you imagine the creative ways that BB can deploy a physical freak like Dunalp?

    Here is a quote from PFT:

    Finally cracking Cincinnati’s defensive rotation in Week Ten, Dunlap ripped through offensive lines en route to 9.5 sacks in the final eight weeks. Despite not starting a single game, the former Florida Gator  finished the season as the Bengals’ sack leader by a wide margin. Next closest was fellow rookie Geno Atkins, a defensive tackle, with 6.5 fewer sacks than Dunlap.

    Had Dunlap received full-time snaps in 2010, he very well may have given Ndamukong Suh a run for Defensive Rookie of the Year.


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Faucet, I'm not sure that 57% sub packages necessarily means that 57% of the time they're in a 4-3 set (I could be wrong).  To me, it means that they're not in their base 3-4 set 57% of the time, instead aligning in some 3-4 variation or 4-3 package or another alignment. It'd be nice for the person who came up with the 57% sub package figure (was it Reis?) to identify the different alignments and applicable percentage of plays in said alignments.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    yes mb,
     i posted it from reiss
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : This was a phenomonal draft for the Patriots.  It would have been perfect if they had picked Dunlap over Cunningham.  Find me another guy who is 6'6 and 280Lbs, runs 4.6, and had two years of big-time production at the college level. What a regretable miss! Here is a hypothetical question: who would you pick: JJ Watt at #17 or Dunlap with DUI at #54? Had we picked Dunlap, we would have won the Super Bowl.  Can you imagine the creative ways that BB can deploy a physical freak like Dunalp? Here is a quote from PFT: Finally cracking Cincinnati’s defensive rotation in Week Ten, Dunlap ripped through offensive lines en route to 9.5 sacks in the final eight weeks. Despite not starting a single game, the former Florida Gator  finished the season as the Bengals’ sack leader by a wide margin. Next closest was fellow rookie Geno Atkins, a defensive tackle, with 6.5 fewer sacks than Dunlap. Had Dunlap received full-time snaps in 2010, he very well may have given Ndamukong Suh a run for Defensive Rookie of the Year.
    Posted by TrustBill

    looks like another case where bill took the "good kid" instead of the freak of a player. thanks urban (urban meyer).

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    On Luck, sure we want him, but I dont want to trade up from 32 *smile* to get him since it would take almost all of our draft.
    Posted by MordecaiBloodmoon

    hi mordecai,
    the point there would be to trade now for next years potential #1 (ie possibly carolina)

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from cbdam. Show cbdam's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : You're question is beyond my knowledge so will defer to someone else.  I have no idea what would happen to teams already over the cap.  I assume they would have to cut players or restructure contracts.  Those cut player can probably sign with a new team once there is a new CBA. Quinn made a dumb move when he was what, 18, 19?  He accepted a couple of gold watches from an agent.  Obviously that's a red flag but that's all I've heard about him off the field.  If there are other questions, if he's into drugs, beats his dog or anything like that, I'd keep away from him.  But, I think we can overlook a dumb youthful mistake if he otherwise checks out and interviews well.  Yes, I would make the move from 17 to 11 for either Quinn or Miller.  BB has already said he's been hearing from teams looking to trade down.  Our 33 and 17 gets us to #7.  Our 17 and 28 gets us to #5.  All three picks, 17, 28 and 33 get us to #3 with a 4th rounder (99) coming back.  At #3 at least one of these guys would be there; Fairley, Bowers, Peterson or Dareus.  I would not give up the 3 picks, but I would consider giving up 17 and 28 to move to #5 if one of these guys is there.  Better yet, 17 and 33 to get to #7 for one of Fairley, Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller .  You got to figure Green and Gabbert should be coming off in the top 6, if both do, two of the aforementioned will be there at 7 and SF is a common trading partner.  Think about it, we had the best record in football.  We only have 2 key F/A and we might be able to keep them both.  We have a starting CB and DE returning from injury.  We could have a top 7 pick and draft a big time pass rusher or land a stud DE, and still have another 1st, pick 28 and a 2nd round pick, 60 and a pair of 3rds.   If we keep Mankins and Light and do the above, we could have a draft like this. #7   OLB Quinn or Miller #28  DE JJ Watt #60  WR Titus Young #74  OG John Moffitt #92  OLB Sam Acho #124 RB John Clay #6C  RB Mario Fannin  
    Posted by Faucetman


    in re to :
    "BB has already said he's been hearing from teams looking to trade down.  Our 33 and 17 gets us to #7.  Our 17 and 28 gets us to #5.  All three picks, 17, 28 and 33 get us to #3 with a 4th rounder (99) coming back.  At #3 at least one of these guys would be there; Fairley, Bowers, Peterson or Dareus.  I would not give up the 3 picks, but I would consider giving up 17 and 28 to move to #5 if one of these guys is there.  Better yet, 17 and 33 to get to #7 for one of Fairley, Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller.  You got to figure Green and Gabbert should be coming off in the top 6, if both do, two of the aforementioned will be there at 7 and SF is a common trading partner.  "


    so far
    quinn is getting mocked at 6-9
    miller from 5-11
    and bowers in the top 5.

    i'm on the record in principal with you of trading up if not F.A. to get the stud olb, o line, d line.

    incidently espn has baltimore losing gaithers according to conversations with insiders 
    and if there is a F.A the name they are associated with is Matt Light.

    i'm on record as wanting to sign ligth and mankins and pick an improvement on light and
     interior lineman.

    also, deangelo williams may not get tageged and already miami and denver are linked with having discussions with the carolina panthers
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    listing of what teams are already up to going toward the salary cap (players already under contract for 2011), not including drafted players coming up, free agents or upcoming tags put on players, according to pat yasinskas, espn:

    the new cap is undetermined.
    the 2009 cap was 130 million.

    (the jets look like they are the most "scrood" with 17 unsigned free agents
    and already at 129 m - regardless what the new cap is.)

    by contrast, we should have plenty of wiggle room at 102 m




    Also, we won’t know what the 2011 salary cap for all teams will be until there’s a deal in place. For reference, the salary cap in 2009, the last capped year was right about $130 million.
    • Arizona $83 million
    • Atlanta $102.1 million
    • Baltimore $101.3 million
    • Buffalo $96.4 million
    • Carolina $73 million
    • Chicago $104.9 million
    • Cincinnati $90.7 million
    • Cleveland $99.2 million
    • Dallas $136.6 million
    • Denver $125 million
    • Detroit $113.8 million
    • Green Bay $129.8 million
    • Houston $118.4 million
    • Indianapolis $115.5 million
    • Jacksonville $78.1 million
    • Kansas City $74.7 million
    • Miami $103.1 million
    • Minnesota $108.4 million
    • New England $102.3 million
    • New Orleans $105.2 million
    • New York Giants $126.3 million
    • New York Jets $128.5 million
    • Oakland $85.8 million
    • Philadelphia $80.8 million
    • Pittsburgh $116 million
    • San Diego $85.8 million
    • San Francisco $100.9 million
    • Seattle $81.1 million
    • St. Louis $102.4 million
    • Tampa Bay $59.7 million
    • Tennessee $107.4 million
    • Washington $115.2 million
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    the cost of rigidity around measurable size and weight versus selecting a player who can do the job you need to get done:

    (Lamar woodley)
    "In addition, while his numbers aren’t in dispute, he doesn’t quite fit the physical mold of what the Patriots usually look for in their ideal outside linebacker — there’s a reason they passed over him when he was available in the 2007 draft. (He was taken in the second round by the Steelers. Instead, New England selected Brandon Meriweather.) Now, if Bill Belichick is going to go all in for an outside linebacker like he’d have to do with Woodley, history tells us that he’d be taller and leaner."

    maybe it's time to loosen up the parameters, think outside the box, and select a stud football player, instead of a size and weight.

    furhtermore, even if we selected an olb who was a pass rushing demon who had 10-18 sacks a season, we could afford it if he were only average at run stopping ability. much of our team is average, but the lack of a consistent pressure on the quarterback is the top reason we have a playoff  team and not a championship team.

     #2.) ditto with the o line(good but not good enough against the best defenses- not allowing brady to do his thing-upgrade) ,
     #3.) lack of a fullsize 5 yard per carry, breakaway potential back and
     4.) a legit tall tough reliable receiver. 
     (#5. in a perfect world, dump meriweather).
     
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