2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Low, I see what you're saying, but we don't know what BB thought of Odrick (outside of his ideal size) so it's impossible to gauge what kind of grade they had on him.  The same essentially goes for Watt/Jordan etc., this year.  We know Jordan is undersized based on their preferences and we'll know Watt's true weight at the combine.  Overall, BB seems to place a premium on big, talented DE prospects (Seymour 6th overall, Warren 13th overall) so I don't think 17 is out of the question, assuming they like one of these kids.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]


    Thats true MB and Watt was closer to that 300 mark than I originally thought and might be heavier. As you said we'll see at the weigh in.

    I will say though that some people (not yourself) on here make too much projection on guys being able to throw on 15 pounds so easily.

    1st many of these kids are coming from serious football programs and have strong strength and conditioning programs already. 2nd many of them have been the same height since like sophmore or juniors in HS and have consistently been adding bulk to their frames all along. 3rd is that its funny that people just forget the 1st 2 things and pay no attention to how adding 15 MORE pounds will affect quickness, agility or overall play.

    On a seperate note. Do you know anything about Justin Houstons Smarts and character? I like his film and I like that he is not a projection but actually played the position.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : PL, I'm on record as saying I think Miller would get mauled trying to set the edge in the run game as a 3-4 OLB and do not see him as a fit (3 or 4 down player) for their scheme.  I don't see any scenario in which they give up 17 and 28 to get him, the value just isn't their, IMO. I see them targeting kids like Reed or Beal or Acho or Keiser or Elmore etc., in Rds 2-4.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    I think you have a good point about setting the edge. He did it at A&M in a 3-4, and I know college OT's are not pro size, but he did OK. Playing the run is not his strength for sure. What is however is his great first step, and ability to get after the passer and play the pass/dropping into coverage.
    I look at a guy with similar size like Dumervil (similar in weight) and have to ask, "How does he do it?".
    If we are looking for a pass rush, I think Miller is one of the best at the OLB spot this year. If we are looking for a guy more like Cunningham, who is average in all areas, then we could wait until later in the draft and go get Acho, Beal, Reed, etc. Of that group you mention, I do like Acho. I think he has ideal size and is also a decent pass rusher, just not ideal.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Thats true MB and Watt was closer to that 300 mark than I originally thought and might be heavier. As you said we'll see at the weigh in. I will say though that some people (not yourself) on here make too much projection on guys being able to throw on 15 pounds so easily. 1st many of these kids are coming from serious football programs and have strong strength and conditioning programs already. 2nd many of them have been the same height since like sophmore or juniors in HS and have consistently been adding bulk to their frames all along. 3rd is that its funny that people just forget the 1st 2 things and pay no attention to how adding 15 MORE pounds will affect quickness, agility or overall play. On a seperate note. Do you know anything about Justin Houstons Smarts and character? I like his film and I like that he is not a projection but actually played the position.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Agree on the weight thing, I don't think it can be assumed that a player can just toss on 15 pounds (in order to meet NE's preferences) and still be the same player.  I prefer to project them based on current weight.

    On the Houston question, I believe he was suspended in 2009 for "violation of the team's substance abuse policy" and I also found this quote from him which I don't think is what teams want to hear: "My top thing is going hard every play," he said. "I feel like I take plays off at times. If I can go hard every play, I know I'll make more plays."

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]it's funny how reading all the mock drafts you can actually see the guys who hate the Pats. The guy from Pro Football weekly has us taking Mark Ingram and Clint Bolling in the first round. I'll buy season tickets to the Revolution if that happens. Free agent signings are still the key to the draft. If we can lure guys like Kiwanuka or Babin or Greenway or Malcolm Floyd then obviously that effects the draft plans. FA's can't be pursued until a CBA is signed, is that right? But they are still allowing the franchise tag to be put on, right?
    Posted by pumpsiefan[/QUOTE]

    Ingram is atleast debatable, but Clint Boling in Rd 1?  Wow.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but nepatriotsdraft.com (one of my favorite draft sites to visit) updated their mock draft and it's pretty interesting.

    17. New England Patriots (OAK)
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/08/aldon-smith-scouting-report.html">Aldon Smith, DE/OLB, Missouri
    One of the best pure pass-rushers in the draft, but will need to improve against the run at this point of his career. He has the frame to do that and his errors are coachable. Smith would give the Patriots another young rush OLB opposite Jermaine Cunningham to wreak havoc with over the next decade.

    28. New England Patriots
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/06/anthony-costanzo-scouting-report.html">Anthony Costanzo, OT, Boston College
    Costanzo is a great prospect that will bring some depth and new blood to their offensive line. Matt Light isn’t getting any younger and Castonzo can play both LT and RT, allowing the Patriots to decide where Sebastian Vollmer works best. Defensive end and the skills positions also need addressing as well.

    33. New England Patriots
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/06/muhammad-wilkerson-scouting-report.html">Muhammad Wilkerson, DL, Temple
    Ideal 5-technique DE that sheds blockers with ease. This is a trademark Patriots pick, which will have most casual fans scratching their heads initially, followed by realization of just how good a player Wilkerson is. (See Mankins, Logan and McCourty, Devin)

    60. New England Patriots
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/07/leonard-hankerson-scouting-report.html">Leonard Hankerson, WR, Miami
    Hankerson was an incredibly productive college-receiver that has the all-around game that the Patriots need. He runs strong routes, while having the speed and athleticism to create separation.

    74. New England Patriots (MIN)
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/07/john-moffitt-scouting-report.html">John Moffitt, OG/C, Wisconsin

    92. New England Patriots
    www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/06/delone-carter-scouting-report.html">Delone Carter, RB, Syracuse

    Now I'm not confident that Smith will make it to 17 but I would be very happy with this draft personally.

    Smith and Wilkerson fixes the pass rush issue on both the DL and OLB. Moffitt can play LG or RG depending on what happens with Mankins. Costanzo seems like a good fit at RT moving Vollmer to LT. They even have a WR that has some speed but is big enough to be a possession WR and a larger RB that can gain the short yards but has some moves and speed that can break a couple long plays.

    I'd be extremely happy if somehow this draft were to happen

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    If your 1st 2nd choice at a position of need aren't available then I would go with the best overall available regardless of position.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Would love that draft, just dont see guys like Moffit and Costanzo falling that far
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : sl, Welcome to the board/thread.  Nice work, some debatable picks there, but nothing too crazy, outside of QB.  I'm curious of your thought process for ranking Andy Dalton #1 overall at QB while Gabbert (head and shoulders the best QB prospect available) is all the way down at #4, behind the likes of Ponder and Locker. Interesting pick with Scott Lutrus as your #3 ILB.  He seems a little out of place there as most publications have him as a 7th round/URFA, so I wanted to research him a bit and see if I could find any tape on him.  He's a good sized kid (listed at 6-3 245) that looks to have some pretty good speed, quicks, is an active player with decent instincts that fills downhill quickly and seems to be around the football a lot, evident by his 213 total tackles (17 TFL) as a Freshman/107/9 and Sophmore/106/8.  He's since seen his production decline with 69 as a Junior and 59 as a Senior and he's also had some neck/stinger problems which will need to be looked into (neck problems for a LB aren't a good thing).  He is however, a player that I will keep an eye on.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07[/QUOTE]

    mbeaulieu,

    I figured someone would catch onto my QB rankings after a while, and after reading your stuff, I knew it would be you, and rightfully so on your part. Contrary to the popular opinion, I think the top 4 QB's really won't be the top 4 QB, looking back on this 10 years from now (Gabbert, Mallett, Newton, Locker). I think that Mallett is just a mess, I have gotten other draftniks and other buddies who follow closely also in agreement on Mallett. People fall in love with his big arm too much, and forget a multitude of things. The kid is a wreck off the field, and has many problems including a rumored drug problem recently. He is a clubhouse cancer waiting to happen and his attitude reminds me of Phillip Rivers who I hate for that also. Mallett has horribly decision making and poor accuracy on a good deal of throws, but people are wowed by his size and arm.

    Now to your question about Dalton at #1, Ponder #2, Locker #3, Gabbert #4. I think Dalton just has what it takes to succeed in this league, I may be wrong, draft "experts" make wrong calls every year, and this is simply just my opinion. This isn't how I view them to go in the draft but who I personally think will be best. I think that Dalton has it all like I said. He may not have the strong arm or the great size, but he has 3 things I look for first in a quarterback. Accuracy, Leader, Winner. The kid flat out knows how to get it done, and watching the Wisconsin tape especially, in his biggest game as a collegiate athlete, he made every throw. He doesn't have the ideal size or big arm that scouts love, but the kid will get it done wherever he goes, again just my opinion. Ponder, I think will be a great West Coast QB, again he doesn't have the big arm, but he can make all the throws with accuracy and I have heard that he was a great guy and leader of a team, which is always a bonus. Ponder and same with Dalton will both be 2nd round guys but I think they are the 2 best in this class. Now on to Locker, who has exceptional talent, but when I look at QB, one of the things I look at is accuracy and that is clearly where he is lacking which leads me to drop him down from what his talent suggests. If Locker gets the right coach and a few years under a good QB, I think he can be special, but I don't  like him as a guy that can start right away. While Dalton and maybe Ponder, I think can. Now onto your biggest question of why Gabbert all the way at #4. Personally, I think he has gotten overrated in the wake of Luck choosing to stay in school, and jumped onto the scene too fast. Don't get me wrong, Gabbert has a good arm, great size, and decent athleticism, but he wasn't a big producer at Missouri and still work to do before I'd be comfortable riding him out there on Sundays, not to say it can't be done with good coaching again, but it needs to be done. He comes out of a spreaad offense so his footwork will need to be worked on, and if he can prove at the Combine that he has solid footwork, I may move him up a bit, cause that is always a big thing coming out of the spread. I also think Gabbert is just too inconsisent, I have only watched a few games of him, but I think he needs to improve accuracy and the deep ball too. I think he would have been better off staying in school and improving his skills, and be a lock to be a top 10 pick along with Luck next year. Again just my opinion, but that's what I believe at this point.

    Another point on me with QB's. I don't nessacarily want a big guy with a big arm. As far as arm strength goes, I see if he can make all the throws, he doesn't need to be overly impressive doing so but if he can have accuracy throwing the deep ball, the posts, the dig routes, etc, etc. Then I look at his accuracy, which is the biggest thing for me, I need to not only make sure you can make the throws but be accurate. If that checks out, then I look at how he is as a leader, if he was a winner, if he is a good guy from what coaches say. All things should be a factor in deciding the future of the QB position for your team.


    ----

    As for Lutrus, I got the pleasure of watching him, Lawrence Wilson, and Greg Lloyd play at UConn over their careers, and all are very solid talents, that should make NFL rosters, especially Lutrus and Wilson. Lutrus, just has the "it" factor too me. He may not be overly athletic, but the guy makes plays and does it often. The reason his productivity went down his final 2 years was because of injuries, which will be big for him. The kid has high character and a great work ethic. He will never be a flashy guy who runs fast, or jumps high, but he will get it done. At worst he is a contributor in sub packages and on Special Teams. At best he is a 4 down player, who can start at ILB for you for 10 years. I tend to lean towards the latter, with him playing 10 years, and being a great mid-late round pick for a team. He won't be the 3 ILB off the board, but I think he has the potential to be that good, and maybe better when all is said and done. I like guys who are captains, hard workers, and good character, that is 3 big things for me. Give him a chance, and I doubt he disapoints.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Pump -

    I'm with you on Smith but I'm starting to lose interest in Quinn. He just has to many similarities with other pass rushing busts of the past.

    For me my top 5 DE/OLB's (that I think would be in the Pats range) in order:

    1 - Smith   8-18 range
    2 - Kerrigan 14-25 range
    3 - Reed 55-80 range
    4 - Houston 25-50 range
    5 - Friday 4+ range

    top 5 DE (that I think would be in the Pats range) in order:

    1 - Wilkerson (It was close but I have a gut feeling about Wilkerson) 25-40 range
    2 - tie Watt and Jordan 10-20 range
    4 - Fua 4+ range
    5 - Thorton 4+ range

    Any combo of De and OLB the first 4 and either of the #5 and I'd be a very happy man 

    Some of my other top 5's in area's I think need to be improved and would be in the Pats area

    OT (The area I'll get most grief over but realize I'm thinking RT not LT):

    1 - Sherrod 25-50 range
    2 - Costanzo 25-40 range
    3 - Barksdale 50-70 range
    4 - Gilbert 65-96 range
    5 - Morris 4+ range 

    OG/C (Since I'm combining 2 positions I'm picking 8 players:

    1 - Wisneiwski G/C 25-40 range
    2 - Pouncey G/C 25-40 range
    3 - Moffitt G 40-65 range 
    4 - Boling G 55-80 range
    5 - Cannon G 40-65 range
    6 - Rackley G 4+ range
    7 - Linnenkohl C 4+ range
    8 - Boren G 4+ range

    WR:

    1 - Baldwin 20-45 range
    2 - Hankerson 30-50 range
    3 - Cobb 50-75 range
    4 - Pettis 70-96 range
    5 - Harris 90-100 range

    RB:

    1 - Williams 25-50 range
    2 - Thomas 75-96 range
    3 - Powell 7-110 range
    4 - Evans 4+ range
    5 - Alex Green 6-UDFA

    Now before I get killed by people saying how 1 person is ranked so much higher or that I have a person who wouldn't be drafted until the later rounds as one of my top 5 realize I chose them based on how I think they will fit the team and that they might be found in the range that the Pats have picks
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    You are the best mb07! Sometime soon, could you also go over the 2009, 2010 Pats picks and give them/us a grade and future potential advisory?   Thanks!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I expect the Patriots to be active as usual with trades but for the moment let's ignore that.

    If you only had to build your draft from the following players that could be available around when the Patriots make picks, how would you build your draft for the 1st 7 picks.

    You can take any of the players in any slot not just where they are listed.

    It's just a guide from a recent top 100 on The Huddle Report.


    #17 - JJ Watt / Tyron Smith / Anthony Castonzo
    #28 - Derek Sherrod / Mike Pouncey / Jimmy Smith / Justin Houston
    #33 - Ryan Williams / Titus Young / Stefen Wisniewski / Muhammad Wilkerson / Phil Taylor
    #60 - Ahmad Black / Danny Watkins
    #74 - Mark Herzlich / Kendall Hunter / Vincent Brown
    #92 - Brooks Reed / Randall Cobb / Colin Kaepernick / Daniel Thomas / Sam Acho
    #124 - jeremey Kerley / John Moffit / Kendric Burney / Greg Romeus
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    out of those groups

    Anthony Castonzo @ 17
    Justin Houston @ 28
    Muhammed Wilkerson @ 33
    Ahmad Black @60
    Mark Herzlich @ 74
    Brooks Reed @ 92
    John Moffitt @ 124

    That would be pretty damn sweet. Although not sure if its possible.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]I expect the Patriots to be active as usual with trades but for the moment let's ignore that. If you only had to build your draft from the following players that could be available around when the Patriots make picks, how would you build your draft for the 1st 7 picks. You can take any of the players in any slot not just where they are listed. It's just a guide from a recent top 100 on The Huddle Report. #17 - JJ Watt / Tyron Smith / Anthony Castonzo #28 - Derek Sherrod / Stefen Wisniewski / Jimmy Smith / Justin Houston #33 - Ryan Williams / Titus Young / Stefen Wisniewski / Muhammad Wilkerson #60 - Ahmad Black / Danny Watkins #74 - Mark Herzlich / Kendall Hunter #92 - Brooks Reed / Vincent Brown / Colin Kaepernick / Daniel Thomas #124 - jeremey Kerley / John Moffit / Kendric Burney / Greg Romeus
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    Here's my take on the choices you gave;
    #17 Anthony Castonzo
    #28 Justin Houston
    #33 Muhammad Wilkerson
    #60 Danny Watkins
    #74 Mark Herzlich
    #92 Daniel Thomas
    #124 Greg Romeus

    This is based on your list above. I would much rather pencil in a WR at #74, and there should be quite a few good ones available then....
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : You're question is beyond my knowledge so will defer to someone else.  I have no idea what would happen to teams already over the cap.  I assume they would have to cut players or restructure contracts.  Those cut player can probably sign with a new team once there is a new CBA. Quinn made a dumb move when he was what, 18, 19?  He accepted a couple of gold watches from an agent.  Obviously that's a red flag but that's all I've heard about him off the field.  If there are other questions, if he's into drugs, beats his dog or anything like that, I'd keep away from him.  But, I think we can overlook a dumb youthful mistake if he otherwise checks out and interviews well.  Yes, I would make the move from 17 to 11 for either Quinn or Miller.  BB has already said he's been hearing from teams looking to trade down.  Our 33 and 17 gets us to #7.  Our 17 and 28 gets us to #5.  All three picks, 17, 28 and 33 get us to #3 with a 4th rounder (99) coming back.  At #3 at least one of these guys would be there; Fairley, Bowers, Peterson or Dareus.  I would not give up the 3 picks, but I would consider giving up 17 and 28 to move to #5 if one of these guys is there.  Better yet, 17 and 33 to get to #7 for one of Fairley, Bowers, Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller .  You got to figure Green and Gabbert should be coming off in the top 6, if both do, two of the aforementioned will be there at 7 and SF is a common trading partner.  Think about it, we had the best record in football.  We only have 2 key F/A and we might be able to keep them both.  We have a starting CB and DE returning from injury.  We could have a top 7 pick and draft a big time pass rusher or land a stud DE, and still have another 1st, pick 28 and a 2nd round pick, 60 and a pair of 3rds.   If we keep Mankins and Light and do the above, we could have a draft like this. #7   OLB Quinn or Miller #28  DE JJ Watt #60  WR Titus Young #74  OG John Moffitt #92  OLB Sam Acho #124 RB John Clay #6C  RB Mario Fannin  
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    to mb, faucet et al.
        the point is i'd be willing to trade up to get the dominant player(s) we need.
    if bb identifies a beast at the 3 positions we've been discussing (o and d line, olb), every choice is  a risk, up or down, if we dont get what we need through F.A., going for the potential greats instead of the avg is what we need at this point in time with our team.
        no one else with an opinion on going for the andrew luck pick next year?


     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    On Luck, sure we want him, but I dont want to trade up from 32 *smile* to get him since it would take almost all of our draft.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers.

    Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    If we are looking for pure pass rushers, and willing to trade up, maybe we should be talking about Bowers.  The interesting thing with Bowers is he just woke up one day and became a pass rusher.  He had 1 sack in '08, 3 sacks in '09 then went insane in 2010 with 16 sacks.  Did he start juicing or did he learn a few new moves?  I have no idea.

    The same thing with Nick Fairley.  He had 1 sack in 2009 and nobody even knew his name then in 2010 he puts up 12 sacks and is a top 3 pick.  What if this one year was a fluke?

    Cameron Jordan on the other hand had 1 sack in 2007, then 4 in '08 then 6 in '09 and again in '10.  At least he has some track record but just 6 sacks as the most in any one year.  He got them against Colorado (I wonder if he was going against Solder), Arizona, UCLA, Oregon State and Washington State.  He was shut out against UC Davis, Nevada, USC, Arizona State, Oregon, Stanford and Washington so he didn't do well against some of the better teams like Nevada, Oregon and Stanford. 

    We really need to see who had good sack numbers against good OLs.  Bowers went up against some solid lines like Auburn, BC and Florida State.

    Kerrigan went up againt some dogs like Notre Dame, Western Illinois, Ball State, Toledo, Northwestern and had 4 sacks against Michigan.  The only decent OLs he faced were against Ohio State and Michigan State.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Ryan Williams Scouting report

    http://nfldraftgeek.com/rwilliams.html
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Faucet - Kerrigan has a proven track record

    08' 7 sacks 11.5 TFL, 09' 11 sacks 17 TFL, 10' 12.5 sacks 26 TFL

    That shows one heck of a solid track record imo so just saying that he ate up on weaker lines in 10' wouldn't explain how he managed to be a great pass rusher from 08-10'. That's a more solid track record then Miller

    With Reed he's got about the same sack and TFL numbers as most the potential OLB's but the thing that really impressed me about him and well Kerrigan is during senior bowl week they were put against the best T's and G's and both found ways to get to the QB. No matter what competition they played during the season when you look at the numbers then look at how they performed in the senior practices they are legit pass rushers
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers. Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    You could argue they are in sub because they do not have the every down talent anymore to stay in the base 3-4 package more often as they should.

    Why draft to stay in  something you are doing out of necessity and to best match your current personnel? Why not draft to get back to having the horses to stay more in your base 3-4?

    Miller is most often compared to elvis dumervil. Dumervil was not a high first round pick, a 4th rounder I believe,  and although dumervil has been good for sacks he's been a giant liability for Denver stopping the run.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]If we are looking for pure pass rushers, and willing to trade up, maybe we should be talking about Bowers.  The interesting thing with Bowers is he just woke up one day and became a pass rusher.  He had 1 sack in '08, 3 sacks in '09 then went insane in 2010 with 16 sacks.  Did he start juicing or did he learn a few new moves?  I have no idea. The same thing with Nick Fairley.  He had 1 sack in 2009 and nobody even knew his name then in 2010 he puts up 12 sacks and is a top 3 pick.  What if this one year was a fluke? Cameron Jordan on the other hand had 1 sack in 2007, then 4 in '08 then 6 in '09 and again in '10.  At least he has some track record but just 6 sacks as the most in any one year.  He got them against Colorado (I wonder if he was going against Solder), Arizona, UCLA, Oregon State and Washington State.  He was shut out against UC Davis, Nevada, USC, Arizona State, Oregon, Stanford and Washington so he didn't do well against some of the better teams like Nevada, Oregon and Stanford.  We really need to see who had good sack numbers against good OLs.  Bowers went up against some solid lines like Auburn, BC and Florida State. Kerrigan went up againt some dogs like Notre Dame, Western Illinois, Ball State, Toledo, Northwestern and had 4 sacks against Michigan.  The only decent OLs he faced were against Ohio State and Michigan State.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]


    I forget where i read it now but someone wrote a big article on this and part of it was an interview with Bowers asking him the very question point blank.

    To try and paraphrase from memory. He basically said he was a joke at first and didn't apply himself to his craft or to anything in general. Someone dies in his family. His dad or something and he became the defacto head of the family and it really hit home and woke him up to being a man and being responsible.

    So basically yes he did just kind of wake up one day and started being serious. Obviously a traumatic life changing event helps. ;-)
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Lets face it. The Pats are going to pick nobody we expect. I hope they draft a stud RB and all Oline and Dline. The rest if fine
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Here's my take on the choices you gave; #17 Anthony Castonzo #28 Justin Houston #33 Muhammad Wilkerson #60 Danny Watkins #74 Mark Herzlich #92 Daniel Thomas #124 Greg Romeus This is based on your list above. I would much rather pencil in a WR at #74, and there should be quite a few good ones available then....
    Posted by PatsLifer[/QUOTE]

    I updated my list... both brown and cobb just appear in the low 100's on the value board I was using and there really isn't any WR in the #74 area in the current revision. The Patriots have always shown that their value board is vastly different than the general consensus.

    As i wrote in my post you could had taken a player from a later group and selected him earlier. (i.e brown from the #92 group and selected him with the #74 pick)
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I forget where i read it now but someone wrote a big article on this and part of it was an interview with Bowers asking him the very question point blank. To try and paraphrase from memory. He basically said he was a joke at first and didn't apply himself to his craft or to anything in general. Someone dies in his family. His dad or something and he became the defacto head of the family and it really hit home and woke him up to being a man and being responsible. So basically yes he did just kind of wake up one day and started being serious. Obviously a traumatic life changing event helps. ;-)
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    It's a nice story but it works both ways. If he had to become the head of the house and it woke him up he cuold have easily seen the best way to take care of his family was to make it big in the NFL and the easiest way to do that is suddenly spike your numbers by juicing up and being selected high. I hope it isn't the case cause he does have a good story but for everyone that suddenly wakes up and is clean there are as many who will do anything to make it big. I'd still be cautious of that sudden spike and do my homework before drafting him.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    [QUOTE]I haven't read all the new posts yet but for those totally against Miller or Quinn because they might be a bust as a 34 OLB, let's remember we are in sub packages 57% of the time.  When in sub packages, these guys would be lined up as 4-3 DEs and asked to rush the passer.  That is what we are missing, pass rushers. Quinn is risky in that we don't have any tape of him, or at least I don't, and he was suspended for breaking NCAA rules.  I'm going to wait to see how he looks at the Combine.  Aldon Smith may end up being the better choice, or Ryan Kerrigan could.  It's too soon to say but we need a real pass rusher and we don't have any right now.  Herzlich, Reed, Ayers and Wright might be good players but none are pass rushers. 
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    Faucet,
    I'm not sure that 57% sub packages necessarily means that 57% of the time they're in a 4-3 set (I could be wrong).  To me, it means that they're not in their base 3-4 set 57% of the time, instead aligning in some 3-4 variation or 4-3 package or another alignment.

    It'd be nice for the person who came up with the 57% sub package figure (was it Reis?) to identify the different alignments and applicable percentage of plays in said alignments.
     

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