2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    GOod to hear a response mb16. I am not only talking about Patriots characteristics but BB holds stock in much of what I do in QB. So McElroy is my favorite guy for Pats to draft late, I think he is a stud in the making. Smart, captain, make all the throws, great accuracy, room for growth.

    Dalton -- Patriot or no Patriot -- I just think is the best QB that will be in the draft looking back on it.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Just some thoughts running through my head. If we can get 1 of these players in each of these positions, I think our defense is vastly improved. Not saying we will get the best at each or even one of the best in either category. But if we can somehow get 1 of each of these groups I feel we are better team, by far.

    3-4 DE (5 - Tech)

    Nick Fairley
    Marcell Dareus
    JJ Watt
    Cameron Jordan
    Cameron Heyward
    Muhammed Wilkerson

    Obviously the first 2 are out of the picture in all likelyhood leaving, the last 4, which I think if we grab any, specifically the last 3, at either 17 (Jordan) or 28/33 (Heyward/Wilkerson), I think our DLine becomes that much better and improves the whole defense.

    3-4 OLB

    Robert Quinn
    Von Miller
    Ryan Kerrigan
    Brooks Reed
    Aldon Smith
    Justin Houston

    At 17 or 28 depending on how we work DE and OLB. I think we need to grab one of these guys, as does everyone else. I don't think Miller is a fit, but if he is there, you can't pass him up, he plays good enough against the run, to have his superior pass rushing ability trump that and make him worth it big time at #17. I think Robert Quinn has to be at the top of the list. Followed by Kerrigan, Houston, Reed, Smith. I wouldn't draft Reed higher then Smith, but would rather have Reed later then Smith early. I wouldn't mind getting 2 of these guys. One at 17, and then Reed at 33 or maybe get lucky at 60.

    I like to see this at the moment for the Patriots

    #17 -- Ryan Kerrigan, OLB, Purdue
    #28 -- Cameron Heyward, DE, Ohio State
    #33 -- Ben Ijalana, OT, Villanova
    #60 -- Mark Herzlich, LB, Boston College
    #74 -- John Moffitt, OG, Wisconsin
    #92 --  Niles Paul, WR, Nebraska
    4th -- Jalil Brown, CB, Colorado
    5th -- Bilal Powell, RB, Louisville
    6th -- Greg McElroy, QB, Alabama


    We address, OLB, ILB/OLB, DE, OT, OG, CB, WR, RB and a camp QB in this draft and get great picks all around. Kerrigan will be a high motor guy who will get it done wherever he goes. Heyward will be stout against the run, and we sacrifice a little pass rush, knowing we already have Kerrigan in our pockets. We pick a great OT with 1st round ability at 33, from a smaller school, who can come in and play RT right away if need be (really depends on Mankins and Light). We then grab Herzlich who is just a player, and is still recovering from cancer, if he ever even gets to 75% his old self, he will be a great player for us for a good while, and I bet on him becoming great once again, can play inside and outside for us, depending on down and situation. Next we grab Moffitt, will be a 10 year starter at OG, and get a steal in the 3rd round where he will be picked. He is a mauler, with a mean streak and a guy that will find a great home at RG, hopefully opposite Mankins for years. Next we grab our bigger, more physical WR in Niles Paul, which we are lacking to compete in camp, likely won't get much playing time year #1 like Price, but in future will be a good player beyond. Then we go for Jalil Brown who I think will be a very very good player in this league, a bigger bodied guy, who is great in man coverage and can press, will be a good nickel contributor in his first few years. With an aresenal of Bodden, McCourty, Butler, Arrington, Brown -- we will be set for a while. Then we grab Bilal Powell (a personall favorite of mine), who is a quick guy who sees the hole and hits it, and will be a very good situational back who I think has the potential to be an everydown back, especially in our system. Lastly another favorite of mine, Greg McElroy who is smart, captain, good accuracy and has the arm to make all the throws with some zip, and will be a starter in this league some day, I GURANTEE IT!!!

    Anyways just some thoughts for now.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : I would agree that they are not where any of us would like. You have to hope or have faith that the rebuilding will be coming into its own in the next couple years. Even with that being said and a change in progress young D the Pats won 14 games and ranked 8th in points/G at 19.6. In 2009 the D and whole team chemistry was a mess. In 08 we did not make the playoffs. 2007 the D gave up 17 pts/g. You hold a team to 17 then you have to win the game in this era of scoring in the NFL. It took a miracle catch, non holding call and missed INT by Asante. The real issue is that it was an epic fail by that prolific offense and Josh McD, as well as BB and not the D or Hobbs and Asante. All 4 years the Patriots went to the superbowl the D avg. 17pts/g or fewer. They won 3 of them. 2007 D avg 17pts/g, ranked 4th and gave up 17 in superbowl and LOST 2004 D avg 16.3pts/g, ranked 2nd and gave up 21 in superbowl and WON 2003 D avg 14.9pts/g, ranked 1st and gave up 29 in superbowl and WON 2001 D avg 17pts/g, ranked 3rd and gave up 17 in superbowl and WON So the two years in the superbowl where the D had the best pts/g allowed they gave up more than their avg and still won but the 2 years they only gave up their in season avg they split 1-1. Go Figure. 2010 playoff loss to Jets 28-21 Pats O avg 32.4pts/g. Pats D avg 19.6pts/g. Seems the Pats O underachieved greater than the Pats D compared to their in season avgs. Pats O scored 11.4 fewer pts than avg. Pats D gave up 8.4 more points than avg. So in 2010 The Pats revamped and played with an extremely young D and without two of its starters from day one. The D gave up 2.6pts/g more than the magic number they have needed historically to reach a superbowl and ranked 8th out of 32 teams. That doesn't sound like all that bad of a first step of a rebuilding process on D to me. Add your two starters back, any additions via free agency, any additions via the draft, and an additional year of experience under the youngsters belts and they can probably make up that 2.6pts/g next year if they stay healthy. Oh and just for information sake. 2006 the epic fail in the championship game vs INDY was the best D they ever had for pts/g allowed at 14.8.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ

    I'm a stats guy so loved this post IQ.  Trying to advance far in the play-offs with the 25th ranked defense isn't going to work because high powered offenses usually don't trump top defenses.  We learned that when we beat the Colts in the play-offs in the early 2000s, the game Ty Law picked off Manning 3 times.  Everyone thought there was no way we could slow down that high powered offense.  We learned that again against the Giants in the 2007 SB.  We set every offensive record known to man and managed just 14 points, our lowest total by far of the season.

    Defense wins championships.  Our defense is young and will improve especially with Warren and Bodden coming back.  Maybe we should make a play for Tamba Hali of the Chiefs.  They took one of our OLBs so we should return the favor.  The man had 14.5 sacks last year and 2 in their play-off loss to Baltimore.  The Chiefs will probably tag him unless Pioli doesn't have the money or desire to invest so much in a player who isn't the QB.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    I talked myself into it.  We sign Mankins, let Light walk and sign Tamba Hali.  We should have the money to do both.  Now we draft the below.

    F/A OLB Tamba Hali (KC)
    17.  DE JJ Watt
    28.  OT Gabe Carimi, move Seabass to LT, Carimi to RT
    33.  RB Mikel LeShoure
    60.  FS Quinton Carter
    74.  C/OG John Moffitt
    92.  WR Terrence Toliver

    Rest of the draft?  Who cares?

    If Tamba can even come close to the 16.5 sacks he had this season counting their play-off loss, problem solved at OLB.  We talked about Watt and Carimi to death.  LeShoure beats out BJGE.  He's bigger, faster, more explosive, has better hands, etc, etc.  What a nice luxury having the division's only 1,000 yard rusher coming off the bench.

    Carter is the best FS in the draft.  He's got decent size, 6-1, 211.  We aren't going to pay Meriweather big bucks in 2012, so we should start grooming his replacement now.  We talked about Moffitt to death.  He could beat out Connolly or Koppen if he's half the player I think he is.  Besides, word is he is a funny guy and would be great in the locker room.  Toliver hasn't been talked about much but he's 6-5, 211 and rumor is he runs in the 4.4s and was pretty productive at LSU. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    top edge rushers - fyi 

    Robert Quinn's upside impressive 

    February, 3, 2011

    By Steve Muench

    The upcoming Super Bowl matchup between the Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh Steelersfeatures a pair of explosive 3-4 edge rushers in the Packers' Clay Matthews (first round, 2009) and the Steelers' LaMarr Woodley (second round, 2007).

     

     

    Their ability to generate pressure on the quarterback makes everyone around them better, and the extra attention they demand creates one-on-one opportunities for other pass rushers. Matthews and Woodley also make life easier for the pass coverage by forcing quarterbacks to make quick decisions and off-balance throws.

     

     

    So who in the 2011 draft class could make a similar impact in the NFL? Here's a look at three edge rushers who could develop into stars for teams running base 3-4 defenses, all of whom are underclassmen.

     

     

     

    [+] EnlargeRobert Quinn
    Tim Steadman/Icon SMIRobert Quinn's ability to put quarterbacks on the ground gives him all kinds of potential.

    North Carolina DE/OLB Robert Quinn(Scouts Inc. grade: 96)
    The NCAA declared Quinn permanently ineligible and he missed the entire season in 2010 after accepting improper benefits, and because underclassmen don't take part in postseason all-star games it's been more than a year since Quinn took the field. He still projects as a first-round pick, though, because of his rare pass-rushing potential.

     

     

    While he could line up at right end in a base four-man front, Quinn lacks ideal size for the position and he gets engulfed at times by offensive tackles. On the other hand, he has the upper-body strength and plays with enough leverage to set the edge if moved to outside linebacker in a three-man front.

     

     

    More importantly, he has the burst to beat offensive tackles off the snap and the flexibility/balance to bend back inside when the tackle fails to get his hands on Quinn. There are concerns about Quinn's ability to counter when he doesn't win with his first move but he can work to improve in this area. The bottom line is that his explosiveness and closing speed can't be coached and he has all the tools to excel once he shakes off the rust.

     

     

    Missouri DE/OLB Aldon Smith (91)
    Smith lined up at defensive end for the Tigers and has the frame to develop into a starter there, and at times Missouri even kicked him inside to defensive tackle where his quickness overwhelmed interior offensive linemen. He may not jump out as a likely candidate for a change in position but Smith's best fit at the next level very well could be at 3-4 outside linebacker.

     

     

    Smith is high-cut, which is to say he has a relatively high center of gravity that hinders his ability to sink his hips when anchoring against the run. However, he does however flash a powerful punch and excels at slipping blocks with his lateral quickness, so he should be more effective against the run at outside linebacker.

     

     

    After seeing his athletic ability jump out on film I'm confident Smith can make the transition, especially given his active hands as a pass rusher. He can knock the offensive tackle's hands down before they get on his frame, and Smith can also knock tackles off-balance with a powerful punch before redirecting. As a result of all that he carries a late-first round grade at this point.

     

     

    Georgia DE/OLB Justin Houston (91)
    Houton also comes with concerns about his ability to anchor against the run as a traditional 4-3 defensive end, but he has experience lining up at outside linebacker in a 3-4 so scouts already know he can drop into underneath coverage and hold his own.

     

     

    Scouts would like him to be more versatile as a pass rusher and he will have to develop effective counter moves to realize his substantial potential, but Houston does have the initial burst to run around offensive tackles when he gets off the ball quickly. He also looks to strip the ball when he gets to the quarterback and generally gets his hands into throwing lanes when he sees he won't get to the quarterback in time. Houston also grades out late in the first round.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Kiper(yeah i know) unimpresssed with martez wilson.


    Martez Wilson...what are your thoughts about him? You have him at #1 in your position rankings but didn't elaborate on his draft stock. Thanks Mel!

    Mel Kiper
      (1:28 PM)


    "He's at the top of a very subpar ILB group this year. He didn't have much productivity until this year. He really came on this year. He had a neck injury in 2009. He wasn't off the charts great this year, but he developed into a very good starting ILB. 100 tackles this year, 10.5 for loss, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles. With another year at Illinois, he could have made a move into the first round. Depending on his workouts, he could go as high as 2-3 round."

     

    i'm still wanting the demon pass rushing olb

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    Kiper(yeah i know) unimpresssed with martez wilson. Martez Wilson...what are your thoughts about him? You have him at #1 in your position rankings but didn't elaborate on his draft stock. Thanks Mel! Mel Kiper   (1:28 PM) "He's at the top of a very subpar ILB group this year. He didn't have much productivity until this year. He really came on this year. He had a neck injury in 2009. He wasn't off the charts great this year, but he developed into a very good starting ILB. 100 tackles this year, 10.5 for loss, 3 sacks, 3 forced fumbles. With another year at Illinois, he could have made a move into the first round. Depending on his workouts, he could go as high as 2-3 round."   i'm still wanting the demon pass rushing olb
    Posted by cbdam


    100 tackles, 10.5 tackles for loss, 3 sacks, 3 ff seems like a pretty darn good year to me for an ILB regardless of year drafted. Perhaps we could see a progression in play or continuity if he played in 2009, but injury sidelined him. This is the risk with Wilson. Is he a 1 year wonder, or can he consistenly put up these numbers? A projection to play OLB for sure. Can he play inside and is he an upgrade over Guyton, Spikes and Fletcher?

    I still like this kid. Not enough to draft him in round 1 or top of round 2, but perhaps someplace late mid-later round 2, but this is only if BB thinks he can convert this kid to OLB. Otherwise for where we can have him, I would rather make a play for Brooks Reed.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    I talked myself into it.  We sign Mankins, let Light walk and sign Tamba Hali.  We should have the money to do both.  Now we draft the below. F/A OLB Tamba Hali (KC) 17.  DE JJ Watt 28.  OT Gabe Carimi, move Seabass to LT, Carimi to RT 33.  RB Mikel LeShoure 60.  FS Quinton Carter 74.  C/OG John Moffitt 92.  WR Terrence Toliver Rest of the draft?  Who cares? If Tamba can even come close to the 16.5 sacks he had this season counting their play-off loss, problem solved at OLB.  We talked about Watt and Carimi to death.  LeShoure beats out BJGE.  He's bigger, faster, more explosive, has better hands, etc, etc.  What a nice luxury having the division's only 1,000 yard rusher coming off the bench. Carter is the best FS in the draft.  He's got decent size, 6-1, 211.  We aren't going to pay Meriweather big bucks in 2012, so we should start grooming his replacement now.  We talked about Moffitt to death.  He could beat out Connolly or Koppen if he's half the player I think he is.  Besides, word is he is a funny guy and would be great in the locker room.  Toliver hasn't been talked about much but he's 6-5, 211 and rumor is he runs in the 4.4s and was pretty productive at LSU. 
    Posted by Faucetman

    hey faucet,

    ok this new one  meets my needs even better than the previous one you posted:

          17.    DE JJ Watt
    34.  OLB/ILB Martez Wilson
    43.  RB Mikel LeShoure
    49.  WR Leonard Hankerson
    74.  OG Danny Watkins
    92.  DE/OLB Sam Acho
    124. OT Marcus Gilbert
    6C.  RB Mario Fannin


    in that you pick up the reliable pass rush in tali (hoping kc doesnt tag him) and we get  a cba.

    you get the tall good free safety i need.

    with tali in, we dont need aldon smith as much, so we can go watt

    i like hankerson much more than tolliver, but he is tall and a true wide receiver (i'd prefer a F.A over tolliver, but ok)

    little concerned about karimi. he';s big and strong, but not very fast (concerned he could regualrly get beeat by speed rushers) and less maneuverability in run blocking. 

    you still get leshoure

    and we pcik up moffit.


    well done.
    nice draft

    (my one last wish though didnt happen. trading with caroilina for next years #1 to try to land andrew luck) :)


    thanks!

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    nepatriots.com are catching on.
    their new mock:

    aldon smith 17
    Leshoure 28
    wilkerson 33
    hankerson 60
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    sorry,
    correction: nepatriotsdraft.com
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    I talked myself into it.  We sign Mankins, let Light walk and sign Tamba Hali.  We should have the money to do both.  Now we draft the below. F/A OLB Tamba Hali (KC) 17.  DE JJ Watt 28.  OT Gabe Carimi, move Seabass to LT, Carimi to RT 33.  RB Mikel LeShoure 60.  FS Quinton Carter 74.  C/OG John Moffitt 92.  WR Terrence Toliver Rest of the draft?  Who cares? If Tamba can even come close to the 16.5 sacks he had this season counting their play-off loss, problem solved at OLB.  We talked about Watt and Carimi to death.  LeShoure beats out BJGE.  He's bigger, faster, more explosive, has better hands, etc, etc.  What a nice luxury having the division's only 1,000 yard rusher coming off the bench. Carter is the best FS in the draft.  He's got decent size, 6-1, 211.  We aren't going to pay Meriweather big bucks in 2012, so we should start grooming his replacement now.  We talked about Moffitt to death.  He could beat out Connolly or Koppen if he's half the player I think he is.  Besides, word is he is a funny guy and would be great in the locker room.  Toliver hasn't been talked about much but he's 6-5, 211 and rumor is he runs in the 4.4s and was pretty productive at LSU. 
    Posted by Faucetman


    Hali would be quite a catch. He had a breakout year last year in terms of sacks. he has consistenly put up about 7.5 sacks a year over his career except for last year with 14.5/15 and one year he had 3. I think I would use the 7.5+ number in terms of assessing value/ what we can expect from him.

    Do you know his status Faucet? He was a 2006 1st round draft pick, so not sure if that makes him an FA, RFA?...I guess it doesn't matter yet without a CBA. I can see the Chiefs tagging him however. He's their only real option at OLB..Vrabes is old and the backups aren't too good. I think the Chiefs will go OLB with their 1st rounder this year (21st pick), to put opposite Hali. I've seen Aldon Smith mentioned several times with the Chiefs.

    Hard to argue with any of your latest picks. all solid. Toliver I don't know much about ...didn't see him play last year. I'm going to have to research him a bit.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    i have read tali is a ufa.
    they would have to tag him to keep him.

    cb
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    nepatriots.com are catching on. their new mock: aldon smith 17 Leshoure 28 wilkerson 33 hankerson 60
    Posted by cbdam



    I don't think anyone would be upset with that.

    ...and as far as carching on i don't think they ever need to be catching on as they understand the Patriots VERY well.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    nepatriots.com are catching on. their new mock: aldon smith 17 Leshoure 28 wilkerson 33 hankerson 60
    Posted by cbdam


    This would be a solid draft as well, and I think where they have kids listed is realistically where they will go.

    I'd like to know what people think of JJ Watt vs. Wilkerson? Has anyone ever compared the 2 on this board and what is the take?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    Not exactly draft questions, but is it possible for us to get either Woodley, or Tamba Hali for #28 and maybe a 4th round pick? Both these players are expected to be franchised and looking for a big contract. I think they might work great in our system. It's just a question of if pitt/kansas are willing to let their stud OLB walk for a first and a 4th.
     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Low, Good post.  A lot of fans see a player's sack totals and automatically assume he's able to play 3-4 OLB in NE's scheme regardless of whether he fits there or not. To your point, he didn't look like a good fit as a two gap/5-tech either.
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Hi, MB and Low:

    True, the sack total does not necessarily translate from one scheme to the other.  But it is still the best indicator if you are looking for improvement in this area.  To me, Dunlap has demonstrated the ability to beat NFL linemen and get to the quarterback.  If you don't think BB can utilize that ability to get to the QB, you have underestimated BB.  He is only the best in maximizing the players' talent.  Our offense allowed us to play with a lead most of the time.  Dunlap would have had plenty opportunities to rush.

    You two are among the best this forum has to offer.  But let's no trivialize how special it is for 22 year-old like Dunlap to collect 9.5 sacks in the 8 games.  Personally, I think GM Bill failed coach Bill on this one.  We missed the chance to steal once in a decade talent in the second. 

    TB
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

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    Not exactly draft questions, but is it possible for us to get either Woodley, or Tamba Hali for #28 and maybe a 4th round pick? Both these players are expected to be franchised and looking for a big contract. I think they might work great in our system. It's just a question of if pitt/kansas are willing to let their stud OLB walk for a first and a 4th.
    Posted by Patsfan038


    A lot depends on what type of franchise tag is given. 

    If either Hali or Woodley are given the "exclusive" franchise tag, they can't negotiate with other teams.

    If either are given the "non-exlcusive" franchise tag, the player is free to negotiate with other teams, if he signs an offer sheet with the new team his original team has the right to match the offer.  If the original team chooses not to match, they are entitled to two 1st round picks as compensation.

     
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    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Hi, MB and Low: True, the sack total does not necessarily translate from one scheme to the other.  But it is still the best indicator if you are looking for improvement in this area.  To me, Dunlap has demonstrated the ability to beat NFL linemen and get to the quarterback.  If you don't think BB can utilize that ability to get to the QB, you have underestimated BB.  He is only the best in maximizing the players' talent.  Our offense allowed us to play with a lead most of the time.  Dunlap would have had plenty opportunities to rush. You two are among the best this forum has to offer.  But let's no trivialize how special it is for 22 year-old like Dunlap to collect 9.5 sacks in the 8 games.  Personally, I think GM Bill failed coach Bill on this one.  We missed the chance to steal once in a decade talent in the second.  TB
    Posted by TrustBill


    TB,
    Thanks for the nod!  I'm not trivializing Dunlap's season, the kid performed will when given the chance as a rookie.

    My point is BB didn't see him as a fit for his scheme/team (both on and off the field) so he didn't pull the trigger, I believe he was used primarily at 4-3 DE in Cincinnati (which he's excelled at) which doesn't necessarily translate to success at 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

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    I believe he was used primarily at 4-3 DE in Cincinnati (which he's excelled at) which doesn't necessarily translate to success at 3-4 DE or 3-4 OLB. 
    Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Can't we stop the recurring  discussion about a 3-4 LB???
    The Pats are more than 50% of the time in subpackage defense (4-3) so why not drafting a stud 4-3 rusher?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Can't we stop the recurring  discussion about a 3-4 LB??? The Pats are more than 50% of the time in subpackage defense (4-3) so why not drafting a stud 4-3 rusher?
    Posted by FrogLegs


    As I've posted multiple times, 57% sub-package doesn't mean that 57% of the time they're in a 4-3, if they were in a 4-3 57% of the time, they'd be a 4-3 team, which they're not.  All sub-package means is that they're not in their base alignment with 3 DL, 4 LB, 2 CB and 2 S, any variance (nickel, dime, you name it) from that base set is a "sub-package".

    So no, we won't stop the recurring discussion about a 3-4 LB because that is the scheme that BB has employed since he arrived in Foxboro, 11 years ago.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : As I've posted multiple times, 57% sub-package doesn't mean that 57% of the time they're in a 4-3, if they were in a 4-3 57% of the time, they'd be a 4-3 team, which they're not.  All sub-package means is that they're not in their base alignment with 3 DL, 4 LB, 2 CB and 2 S, any variance (nickel, dime, you name it) from that base set is a "sub-package" Posted by mbeaulieu07


    Yeah, they even play some funky 2-5. I understand your point.
    It would be interesting to know among these 57% when they really play in a 4-3 alignment...
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15*** : Yeah, they even play some funky 2-5. I understand your point. It would be interesting to know among these 57% when they really play in a 4-3 alignment...
    Posted by FrogLegs


    I agree.  I believe someone said that Mike Reiss had provided the sub-package %, would be cool if he could break it down into the individual alignments etc.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED MOCK 1/15***


    I still think we need to recruit talent for our base 3-4 regardless of sub package percentages. As MB noted, we don't know the alignment breakdown when we are in sub packages, and most 3-4 guys (like the ones we have been talking about Watt, Wilkerson, Jordan, etc.) can and should be able to play in either.

    I don't know about the OLB's, but my guess is most we have discussed can like an Aldon Smith or someone with that athleticism.

    Speaking of Smith, I hope we take him at 17 if he available. I looked over his film again, and he is a specimen. Same with Wilkerson. I like Wilkerson ahead of Watt at this point. I think either can be had with the picks we have. I'm not sure Smith makes it to 17. I have seen him mocked from 10-15. It might require a trade up to 9-10 range to get ahead of the Texans who are looking for a 3-4 OLB.  
     
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