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2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeyMWB123. Show MikeyMWB123's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but I have to agree with the dude about Watt and frankly, I'm tired of seeing a lot of mocks with Watt going to us at the 17th pick, I just don't see it, as mentioned, for 3-4 defensive ends, BB typically goes with the stout college D-Tackle that is at least 6'3+ and 300+ pounds who can stuff the run and plug up the gaps for our linebackers to make the plays, just please, pleeeeasee for the love of God look at the measurables of our current Dline on our roster, they are all over 300+ lbs. I know 290 to 300 may not seem like a big deal but apparently it is, because BB has never drafted a Dlineman in the 1st or 2nd round for that matter that wasn't already 300 lbs going into the NFL, so can we stop the Watt to Patriots talk !!

    The guys in this draft that fit the generic profile for a Pats D-End are: Marcel Dareus, Muhammad Wilkerson, Phil Taylor, Kenrick Ellis, Jarvis Jenkins, Lawrence Guy, Cedric Thorton, and possibly David Carter but he's listed at 297.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but I have to agree with the dude about Watt and frankly, I'm tired of seeing a lot of mocks with Watt going to us at the 17th pick, I just don't see it, as mentioned, for 3-4 defensive ends, BB typically goes with the stout college D-Tackle that is at least 6'3+ and 300+ pounds who can stuff the run and plug up the gaps for our linebackers to make the plays, just please, pleeeeasee for the love of God look at the measurables of our current Dline on our roster, they are all over 300+ lbs. I know 290 to 300 may not seem like a big deal but apparently it is, because BB has never drafted a Dlineman in the 1st or 2nd round for that matter that wasn't already 300 lbs going into the NFL, so can we stop the Watt to Patriots talk !! The guys in this draft that fit the generic profile for a Pats D-End are: Marcel Dareus, Muhammad Wilkerson, Phil Taylor, Kenrick Ellis, Jarvis Jenkins, Lawrence Guy, Cedric Thorton, and possibly David Carter but he's listed at 297.
    Posted by MikeyMWB123


    Mikey,

    That is not entirely true on 2 fronts;
    1. Mike Wright plays DE and he is 6'4", 295
    2. Richard Seymour when drafted in the 1st round in 2001, weighed 299 lbs. Actually his measurements coming out of college are very close to JJ Watt...Both 6'6", Seymour 299, Watt 292.

    The only way Watt is not drafted by the Pats is if he is drafted by someone else first. I think BB would love to land Watt. Need more proof?....Kraft visited 1 college game this year...it was Wisconsin. he did the say last year at Florida, and we drafted 3 Gators. Not saying that is proof we draft 1+ Wisconsin guys, but it has to mean something since he's not a Wisconsin alumn.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but I have to agree with the dude about Watt and frankly, I'm tired of seeing a lot of mocks with Watt going to us at the 17th pick, I just don't see it, as mentioned, for 3-4 defensive ends, BB typically goes with the stout college D-Tackle that is at least 6'3+ and 300+ pounds who can stuff the run and plug up the gaps for our linebackers to make the plays, just please, pleeeeasee for the love of God look at the measurables of our current Dline on our roster, they are all over 300+ lbs. I know 290 to 300 may not seem like a big deal but apparently it is, because BB has never drafted a Dlineman in the 1st or 2nd round for that matter that wasn't already 300 lbs going into the NFL, so can we stop the Watt to Patriots talk !! The guys in this draft that fit the generic profile for a Pats D-End are: Marcel Dareus, Muhammad Wilkerson, Phil Taylor, Kenrick Ellis, Jarvis Jenkins, Lawrence Guy, Cedric Thorton, and possibly David Carter but he's listed at 297.
    Posted by MikeyMWB123


    I tend to agree on Watt, he'll probably be a very good pro but right now there are some questions on him.  At 17 I think the Pats need a 100% can't miss guy, to me that is not Watt.

    I'm looking at the OTs who grade out to be selected at 17 and think they are as close as a can't miss and fills a top need.  These are the guys I'm talking about and I'm excluding Solder from there.  He's got too many holes for my liking as a can't miss prospect, incredible athlete who still needs a lot of work.

    I want at 17 Costanzo, Smith or Carimi.  This is just my preference and probably won't be the way they go but for right now I take the LT first.

    So would like this to happen

    17 Smith (probably gone) or Costanzo OT
    28 Wilkerson DE
    33 Reed OLB
    60 Acho OLB
    72 Chekwa CB
    90 Carpenter OT/OG
    4th Rnd 124th? Moffitt C/OG
    5th Rnd 156th? Anthony Allen RB
    6th Rnd 184th? Aldrick Robinson WR
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : 1) We trade down or out completely from 17. Forget depth of draft for a moment. This draft has some of the best talent atop the draft in some years apparently. I wish a shot at one of them. Also, if i understood the trade correctly, and I might not have... The broncos are going to be a mess switching everything up again. Not sure the Chiefs will be much better with Haley going back to being involved with the offense. Norv turners proven he is what he is. Raiders promoted from within so there should be some continuity and no reason to think they will be about the same or better. So lets say its just pick 17 again, what do we get? A couple later picks this year and 17 again next year in a draft I do not know yet what it is like. Is next year suppose to be awesome at a particular position of need? Are you thinking about packaging 2 first rounders and more to make a play for luck? 2) We don't come away with a OT 3) we take 2 kids back to back that seem mostly interchangeable, on paper at least. First, if we had the kind of access they have. Every film on the all 22's. Communication with his life, friends, family, his college head and position coaches. The ability to ask a player in an interview that faced the other player what his thoughts were about facing him, etc etc. If you put yourself in the shoes in the well informed talent evaluator you are going to have a clear opinion on over the other. If you want to  add additional player at de/olb fine but i would look for a different type, like a Romeus who brings that coveted length and wingspan for deflecting passes etc. 4) Draft history has a strong trend that late round CB's are one of the lesser likely positions to make an impact on the NFL level. There are obvious examples to the contrary but the percentages are not in their favor. Those would mostly be my reasons why. Again, its only an opinion. I can be totally and completely off-base.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    Thanks Low. Those are all great points.

    This draft is indeed rich in DT/DE talent, and that is why I'm pushing 17 into next and drafting a DE at 28. I'm assuming based on what I have seen that there is not a ton of drop off between Watt and Wilkerson. I could very well be wrong and would like if someone on this board did a head to head Watt/Wilkerson analysis....

    The Raiders could be at the top of their division next year, and very well might be 17 or better. It's a gamble, just like anything else, but I am wishful that perhaps we package 17 (assuming it is) next year with our 1st and maybe more to go up and grab Luck. Given our abundance of picks over the past few years, I can't imagine keeping this stockpile going without cashing it in for the next shot at a franchise QB. We would have the ammo next year to do it if we chose.I'll back off of this for a bit and just pick without any trades....Some of the most recent mocks I have seen have Carolina drafting Cam Newton. If this came to fruition, they don't need a QB next year, and they very well might still stink.
     
    On Reed and Acho...They might be very close in overall talent, and perhaps they are carbon copies of one another, so I'll digress and take Acho at 60 or slight trade up, and possibly use a later round pick on Romeus or someone similar.

    No OT's taken because I don't like what I see at that position beyond round 1. My feeling is we either draft one in round 1 or wait until next year, or pick one up via FA. If we extend Light, I'm less concerned about this. If we don't, then we need to go get one in round 1 I think and my tradinng of 17 doesn't make sense. Do you have any opinion on OT's talent fit for Pats after round 1? Remember, we presumably would be asking this guy to start at RT or LT. 

    17 - Carimi (start RT, Vollmer to LT or vice versa)
    28 - Wilkerson (start LDE)
    33 - Wisnewski (start G opposite Mankins)
    60 - Acho (start OLB opposite Cunningham)
    74 - BBurton (upgrade for Wilhite/Butler, possibly ahead of Arrington)
    92 - Vereen (3rd RB)

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Philskiw1. Show Philskiw1's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Sorry to intrude in your thread. when do they offer up the supplementary picks and any idea what we get?
    Thanks in advance
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sml1210. Show sml1210's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    "Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but I have to agree with the dude about Watt and frankly, I'm tired of seeing a lot of mocks with Watt going to us at the 17th pick, I just don't see it, as mentioned, for 3-4 defensive ends, BB typically goes with the stout college D-Tackle that is at least 6'3+ and 300+ pounds who can stuff the run and plug up the gaps for our linebackers to make the plays, just please, pleeeeasee for the love of God look at the measurables of our current Dline on our roster, they are all over 300+ lbs."


    You do know that the difference between the weight of Watt at the combine and a 300 pound lineman is the wieght of one gallon of water. One of your 300+ fatties probably sweats that off in a game.

    The issue is who can we draft that will produce a pash rush from the 5 (and OLB as well). I don't want another 300+ fattie who can't rush the passer - we have plenty of those already. I'll take an athletic 295 pounder who can rush the passer.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    "Guys, I appreciate the discussion, but I have to agree with the dude about Watt and frankly, I'm tired of seeing a lot of mocks with Watt going to us at the 17th pick, I just don't see it, as mentioned, for 3-4 defensive ends, BB typically goes with the stout college D-Tackle that is at least 6'3+ and 300+ pounds who can stuff the run and plug up the gaps for our linebackers to make the plays, just please, pleeeeasee for the love of God look at the measurables of our current Dline on our roster, they are all over 300+ lbs." You do know that the difference between the weight of Watt at the combine and a 300 pound lineman is the wieght of one gallon of water. One of your 300+ fatties probably sweats that off in a game. The issue is who can we draft that will produce a pash rush from the 5 (and OLB as well). I don't want another 300+ fattie who can't rush the passer - we have plenty of those already. I'll take an athletic 295 pounder who can rush the passer.
    Posted by sml1210


    Amen. If Watt is there at 17, he would be the logical pick. If not, I think we can still get an fairly athletic DE in Wilkerson or Heyward at 28. Watt obviously has the most athletic ability of the lot, and I think he has the best motor as well.

    All are close to the ideal size requirements for the position and all should be able to generate some sort of rush with varying degrees of success, but the good thing is all 3 add length which we don't have today unless you consider Stroud and GWarren and both are near the end of their careers.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from reamer. Show reamer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Great article: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14761281/missouris-smith-says-olb-move-suits-him-fine

    I've been advocating Smith & Wilkerson in the first for several months now. Nothing has happened to change my opinion; indeed, I like them better than ever after seeing them in drills at the combine. Good players.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Quagmire3. Show Quagmire3's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Well Like I said...if he can fit our defense fine, but I think he is ideally suited for the 4-3 and I feel if he can do all the things people say he can do, and they way he lit up the combine...Why would he last until 17?  Seymour was snagged at what #10, and that was a similar draft with multiple DE's being mentioned early.  Defensive Ends with high motors that can play the 3-4,. rush the passer, play behind the line of scrimmage, etc. dont usually get out of the top 10, let alone 15...so lets be realistic and look at who Would be there, not the Supposed 2nd best lineman in the draft...in other words...lets stop dreaming... If you wanna sell me on him being that great, then you also prove my point that he is too good to drop that far...so which is it...is he not that good, or is he gonna be gone
    Posted by JayShizzle45


    Richard Symour was drafted 6th overall. Sheesh try to educate yourself or get some facts right before you jump into an educated conversation.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc7YI45r_Hc&feature=related

    Its a Miss ST highlight vid but if you watch it with a focus on LT 79 Derek Sherrod its a pretty good vid for him.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Great article: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14761281/missouris-smith-says-olb-move-suits-him-fine I've been advocating Smith & Wilkerson in the first for several months now. Nothing has happened to change my opinion; indeed, I like them better than ever after seeing them in drills at the combine. Good players.
    Posted by reamer


    If Smith is there I would not question taking him or Watt or Kerrigan and truthfully I'd love Wilkerson too but sadly I don't think Smith is going to make it. Most consider him the 3rd best OLB in the draft and there are a number of teams that need a good 34 OLB or 43 DE
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jjaycee. Show jjaycee's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Just "make sure", like moving up, if any doubt, necessary, to get student athelete(honor roll) Kerrigan, for OLB draft choice. He has it ALL.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc7YI45r_Hc&feature=related Its a Miss ST highlight vid but if you watch it with a focus on LT 79 Derek Sherrod its a pretty good vid for him.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    I really like Sherrod but the issue is that he's a pure LT. Many don't think he could make the switch to RT and the way Vollmer plays would spending a 1st on Sherrod improve the T's enough to justify picking him over taking a T more suited for RT like Ijalana, Costanzo, Barksdale, or Gilbert and moving Vollmer to LT?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I really like Sherrod but the issue is that he's a pure LT. Many don't think he could make the switch to RT and the way Vollmer plays would spending a 1st on Sherrod improve the T's enough to justify picking him over taking a T more suited for RT like Ijalana, Costanzo, Barksdale, or Gilbert and moving Vollmer to LT?
    Posted by PatsEng


    That's a good question. I think many of us on this board, me included, assume Vollmer will slide over to LT naturally if another tackle is drafted. I'm not completely sure about that to be honest.
    I am not a big fan of Barksdale nor Gilbert. If we make a move drafting a tackle, the only guys I think worthy of starting RT or possibly LT are in the first round or LT/RT in round 2. Guys like Solder, Sherrod, Costanzo, Carimi, Smith, etc. But again, it would require us burning a 1st on one of them, or possibly a high 2nd.

    I think our best bet is to resign Light to a 2 year extension unless we want to spend 17, 28 or 33 on a tackle. I see a lot of drop off after the 1st/2nd round guys. I'm not sure how this year stacks up against years past in terms of talent and depth, but from what I read, it doesn't seem like a strong OT year once you get out of round 1 and 2.

    Ijalana although capable of playing RT, is projected by many to be kicked inside to G. he is a guy I woudl look to target in round 2 if he can stay at RT.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : I really like Sherrod but the issue is that he's a pure LT. Many don't think he could make the switch to RT and the way Vollmer plays would spending a 1st on Sherrod improve the T's enough to justify picking him over taking a T more suited for RT like Ijalana, Costanzo, Barksdale, or Gilbert and moving Vollmer to LT?
    Posted by PatsEng



    Don't know but not sure i see the problem either way. I read the opposite so i don't really know. I read that Costanzo and Sherrod could both be swing tackles. They all say different things.

    All I know is I liked watching him in those clips against various teams and plays run and pass.

    Vollmer did a good job playing LT  filling in but....

    1) I don't know what NE's intentions were in drafting him? Replacement for Light? Replacement for Kaczur? Play wherever the need is?

    2) I know some of NE history has been later rounds. Vollmer 2nd, Kaczur 3rd, Koppen 5th, Light 2nd. They have gone 1st on Mankins and non BB era like  Woody and chung

    As far as improve the tackles enough I am not sure I follow. Can you explain? Meaning you don't think Sherrod is an upgrade on Light and should  just resign light and draft one later? or you think Vollmer is already better than Sherrod and Light on the Left and "needs" to be moved there and just get a RT?

    Wasn't Ellis playing over the top of Vollmer in the playoff game?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Great article: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/14761281/missouris-smith-says-olb-move-suits-him-fine I've been advocating Smith & Wilkerson in the first for several months now. Nothing has happened to change my opinion; indeed, I like them better than ever after seeing them in drills at the combine. Good players.
    Posted by reamer



    hey reamer,
      most people i have read have aldon smith going before 17. what do you suggest if that is the case?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsEng. Show PatsEng's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Don't know but not sure i see the problem either way. I read the opposite so i don't really know. I read that Costanzo and Sherrod could both be swing tackles. They all say different things. All I know is I liked watching him in those clips against various teams and plays run and pass. Vollmer did a good job playing LT  filling in but.... 1) I don't know what NE's intentions were in drafting him? Replacement for Light? Replacement for Kaczur? Play wherever the need is? 2) I know some of NE history has been later rounds. Vollmer 2nd, Kaczur 3rd, Koppen 5th, Light 2nd. They have gone 1st on Mankins and non BB era like  Woody and chung As far as improve the tackles enough I am not sure I follow. Can you explain? Meaning you don't think Sherrod is an upgrade on Light and should  just resign light and draft one later? or you think Vollmer is already better than Sherrod and Light on the Left and "needs" to be moved there and just get a RT? Wasn't Ellis playing over the top of Vollmer in the playoff game?
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ


    What I mean in improvement is all of the above. Would spending #28 on Sherrod for LT and Vollmer at RT be better then resigning Light for 2 years and developing a T with a later pick using #28 on Wilkerson or the top G available or using #28 or #33 on the best RT available and moving Vollmer to LT. RIght now I think Vollmer is the better LT then either Light or Sherrod. Sherrod is still a gamble in the end and Vollmer is a known so if Sherrod can move to RT great but I'd rather have a known in Vollmer protecting Brady's blindside then an unknown right now
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***



    Low or anyone else,

    Any general impressions on the strength/depth of this year's draft class at the OT position? I have read several analysts that say once you get out of round 2, there isn't much talent available, and just wanted to see if this is indeed true.

    Reason I ask is because we mention here from time to time, the Pats tendencies of drafting at certain positions either later or earlier in the draft. Low, you said, the Pats tend to draft OL the 2nd-5th round or somethign like that. I don't know if that is a tendency, or if when they drafted in those years, the draft class was strong and deep, and their roster was stacked and were drafting for depth?...

    Any thoughts here would be helpful.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    Low or anyone else, Any general impressions on the strength/depth of this year's draft class at the OT position? I have read several analysts that say once you get out of round 2, there isn't much talent available, and just wanted to see if this is indeed true. Reason I ask is because we mention here from time to time, the Pats tendencies of drafting at certain positions either later or earlier in the draft. Low, you said, the Pats tend to draft OL the 2nd-5th round or somethign like that. I don't know if that is a tendency, or if when they drafted in those years, the draft class was strong and deep, and their roster was stacked and were drafting for depth?... Any thoughts here would be helpful.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    IMO there are 5 LTs in the draft Castonzo, Smith, Solder (with ?), Carimi, Sherrod are 5 guys who I see and have as possible LTs.  After those guys all could go 1st round the rest are guys with question either about their size or footwork at the edge.

    The way the teams now have two rushers from each side you trully need to OTs with "left footwork".  A guy like Matthews, he does most of his pass rush from the RT side.  If you don't have an athletic enough guy there it will be a long day for the QB.  I get the better guy protects the blind side but trully think you need to LT ability guys now.

    I think a few guys are there with coaching in later rounds, Carpenter from Alabama then there are guys like Jarriel King from South Carolina played LT has good body control some technic flaws but overall is a guy who should be able to play except I would not draft him way too many off field issues assult and battery, theft charges convicted of trespassing ect and I see these type of guys often when looking at this year's class is it just me?

    What's available IMO during and after rnd 2 are guys who have experience at OT that will kick inside but could add depth at RT.  I would look at these two guys hard in the 3rd or 4th, DeMarcus Love and James Carpenter both played LT but also have experience inside at guard. 

    Love showed at the combine he does not have the quickness to play at T but has the streangh and pass blocking ability to play guard and be a good one.
    Carpenter I think would be a very good pickup, he is good in the run game and a decent pass blocker.  Strong kid, I think he could play either guard spot but comes to camp to see if he can play RT.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : IMO there are 5 LTs in the draft Castonzo, Smith, Solder (with ?), Carimi, Sherrod are 5 guys who I see and have as possible LTs.  After those guys all could go 1st round the rest are guys with question either about their size or footwork at the edge. The way the teams now have two rushers from each side you trully need to OTs with "left footwork".  A guy like Matthews, he does most of his pass rush from the RT side.  If you don't have an athletic enough guy there it will be a long day for the QB.  I get the better guy protects the blind side but trully think you need to LT ability guys now. I think a few guys are there with coaching in later rounds, Carpenter from Alabama then there are guys like Jarriel King from South Carolina played LT has good body control some technic flaws but overall is a guy who should be able to play except I would not draft him way too many off field issues assult and battery, theft charges convicted of trespassing ect and I see these type of guys often when looking at this year's class is it just me? What's available IMO during and after rnd 2 are guys who have experience at OT that will kick inside but could add depth at RT.  I would look at these two guys hard in the 3rd or 4th, DeMarcus Love and James Carpenter both played LT but also have experience inside at guard.  Love showed at the combine he does not have the quickness to play at T but has the streangh and pass blocking ability to play guard and be a good one. Carpenter I think would be a very good pickup, he is good in the run game and a decent pass blocker.  Strong kid, I think he could play either guard spot but comes to camp to see if he can play RT.
    Posted by Pats7393


    Thanks Pats. That is what I thought. And I do agree with your assessment of needing a more athletic RT given the increase in athleticism at the DE and LB position.
    Seems like the guys you noted in rounds 3-5 have question marks. If Light is not signed, to me that's a large, gaping hole to fill. I don't want an OT drafted in 3-5 with question marks as my starter protecting Brady. I would rather go with a sure fire 1st or 2nd round guy (Solder, Costanzo, Carimi, Smith, Sherrod, Ijalana) and sleep better at night. Most of them should be there at 17, and some at 28. I think once we get beyond 35 or so, all come off the board.

    So, would you spend 17, 28 or 33 on any of those guys above, or would you wait until rounds 3-5? Lets assume for a minute Light is not signed.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : Thanks Pats. That is what I thought. And I do agree with your assessment of needing a more athletic RT given the increase in athleticism at the DE and LB position. Seems like the guys you noted in rounds 3-5 have question marks. If Light is not signed, to me that's a large, gaping hole to fill. I don't want an OT drafted in 3-5 with question marks as my starter protecting Brady. I would rather go with a sure fire 1st or 2nd round guy (Solder, Costanzo, Carimi, Smith, Sherrod, Ijalana) and sleep better at night. Most of them should be there at 17, and some at 28. I think once we get beyond 35 or so, all come off the board. So, would you spend 17, 28 or 33 on any of those guys above, or would you wait until rounds 3-5? Lets assume for a minute Light is not signed.
    Posted by PatsLifer


    I'm thinking at 17 go for a left tackle, I was thinking Smith or Castonzo but the more i think about the more I'm coming around to Carimi.

    He's already talked to the Pats and maybe is smoke and mirrors but I think they are interested.  I believe he can start at LT and he brings a nastiness to him day one.  If they keep Mankins imagine how tough that left side becomes?  Get Moffitt in the 4th and you have 3 very nasty attitude guys on the line.

    Carimi would be my pick at 17 and starts at LT or learns from Light and is groomed to be the LT.  Voll stays at RT.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    The closer we get to the draft the more I start thinking about our picks and I've come to the realization that those 1st 4 picks are going to be the ones that vary most as the draft develops.

    Just looking at BB's past history and tendencies when drafting earlier he's a D trenches picker when the need was there. Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo are all high draft picks when there was a definite need in the front 7. When the need wasn't as great he went to the high talent level guys early in the draft Maroney, Graham. Now given the drop off in talent from a top 20 DE or OLB to the next level the value is to pick one there.

    So with #17 I'm thinking the top candidates are Watt and Jordan. If neither are there you move on to OLB which would be Kerrigan or Smith. Now if all 4 players are not there then I've given into the fact that OL is the next area BB will try to address. The difference is that barring a large run there are 4-5 T's and a G that can fall into the 20-30 range. The value at that point would be to trade back into the mid 20's and pick up extra picks. Trading back even from 17 to say 25 with Sea or 26 with Balt would net at the very least a 3rd and maybe another later pick. Why would either move up, well if the 4 players I listed are taken then someone has to drop and one person might be Amukamara. Both teams need a CB and if Amukamara is available then it wouldn't be a stretch to say either trades up for him. The other option is one of the QB's drops in which case I feel a team like Buf, Ari, or Cinn would over pay to move up and grab a QB. To move from where they are in the 2nd and get back into the 1st the price might end up being a 2nd, a 4th, and a 1st next year.

    Now on to #28, if a DE wasn't taken with #17 then I think they go with Wilkerson before the Jets snag him. Wilkerson imo is that last DE that could make an immediate impact so as a 5 tech guy he seems the natural choice. Now if DE was taken at 17 I don't see a ton of value in the OLB's at #28 so the choice seems to natural go to either trade out or go OL. The drop off in talent for T's is pretty large to the next level so T seems to be a good fit for the value at that pick. Now when a run starts on T's they are going to go quick but I don't see all of the top 5 T's being taken before pick 28 so there will be someone there, just a matter of who. Smith and Solder will most likely be gone but it seems that one of Costanzo, Camiri, Sherrod will be there. My preference is Costanzo out of the group but any should be able to step in and compete for a starting job right away.

    With #33 this is a no brainier you trade back into the mid 2nd. The value of the pick is much greater then the players that will be there.

    Now after trading back that mid 2nd round pick goes one of 2 ways. By now you've taken care of DE so depending on if you went after a OL or an OLB with the previous picks you grab the other here. Players like Acho, Reed, Watkins, Ijanala could be taken in this range. Ideally you went DE with #17 and T with #28 so here's where you grab your OLB.

    At #60 seems like the perfect place to find a G. That's where the most value lies. Players like Cannon, Moffitt, Barksdale, and yes even Watkins might be found here (I say Watkins because with his age and the uncertainty of a lockout I think most teams will shy away with the risk of him losing a year do to the lockout and getting that much older).

    It seems like a solid road map to me given BB's history, the value of the picks verses players around those picks, and filling needs on the team, but what do you guys think?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    The closer we get to the draft the more I start thinking about our picks and I've come to the realization that those 1st 4 picks are going to be the ones that vary most as the draft develops. Just looking at BB's past history and tendencies when drafting earlier he's a D trenches picker when the need was there. Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo are all high draft picks when there was a definite need in the front 7. When the need wasn't as great he went to the high talent level guys early in the draft Maroney, Graham. Now given the drop off in talent from a top 20 DE or OLB to the next level the value is to pick one there. So with #17 I'm thinking the top candidates are Watt and Jordan. If neither are there you move on to OLB which would be Kerrigan or Smith. Now if all 4 players are not there then I've given into the fact that OL is the next area BB will try to address. The difference is that barring a large run there are 4-5 T's and a G that can fall into the 20-30 range. The value at that point would be to trade back into the mid 20's and pick up extra picks. Trading back even from 17 to say 25 with Sea or 26 with Balt would net at the very least a 3rd and maybe another later pick. Why would either move up, well if the 4 players I listed are taken then someone has to drop and one person might be Amukamara. Both teams need a CB and if Amukamara is available then it wouldn't be a stretch to say either trades up for him. The other option is one of the QB's drops in which case I feel a team like Buf, Ari, or Cinn would over pay to move up and grab a QB. To move from where they are in the 2nd and get back into the 1st the price might end up being a 2nd, a 4th, and a 1st next year. Now on to #28, if a DE wasn't taken with #17 then I think they go with Wilkerson before the Jets snag him. Wilkerson imo is that last DE that could make an immediate impact so as a 5 tech guy he seems the natural choice. Now if DE was taken at 17 I don't see a ton of value in the OLB's at #28 so the choice seems to natural go to either trade out or go OL. The drop off in talent for T's is pretty large to the next level so T seems to be a good fit for the value at that pick. Now when a run starts on T's they are going to go quick but I don't see all of the top 5 T's being taken before pick 28 so there will be someone there, just a matter of who. Smith and Solder will most likely be gone but it seems that one of Costanzo, Camiri, Sherrod will be there. My preference is Costanzo out of the group but any should be able to step in and compete for a starting job right away. With #33 this is a no brainier you trade back into the mid 2nd. The value of the pick is much greater then the players that will be there. Now after trading back that mid 2nd round pick goes one of 2 ways. By now you've taken care of DE so depending on if you went after a OL or an OLB with the previous picks you grab the other here. Players like Acho, Reed, Watkins, Ijanala could be taken in this range. Ideally you went DE with #17 and T with #28 so here's where you grab your OLB. At #60 seems like the perfect place to find a G. That's where the most value lies. Players like Cannon, Moffitt, Barksdale, and yes even Watkins might be found here (I say Watkins because with his age and the uncertainty of a lockout I think most teams will shy away with the risk of him losing a year do to the lockout and getting that much older). It seems like a solid road map to me given BB's history, the value of the picks verses players around those picks, and filling needs on the team, but what do you guys think?
    Posted by PatsEng


    I would add Lawrence Guy as a DE option, he's not going to get the hype of others but has all the tools to be an impact player.  If he had some help along that DL in college his stats would had been better.  He and Wilkerson have close to identical combine #s.  Keep Guy in mind, he's in play IMO.

    This could be the route BB goes, pick a DE in the 3rd to secure his OL.  Brady is the key to the SB too many questions on the OL.  When there were questions with Wilfork they go Brace.  Similar scenario, questions with Light they need to address early.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    The closer we get to the draft the more I start thinking about our picks and I've come to the realization that those 1st 4 picks are going to be the ones that vary most as the draft develops. Just looking at BB's past history and tendencies when drafting earlier he's a D trenches picker when the need was there. Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, Mayo are all high draft picks when there was a definite need in the front 7. When the need wasn't as great he went to the high talent level guys early in the draft Maroney, Graham. Now given the drop off in talent from a top 20 DE or OLB to the next level the value is to pick one there. So with #17 I'm thinking the top candidates are Watt and Jordan. If neither are there you move on to OLB which would be Kerrigan or Smith. Now if all 4 players are not there then I've given into the fact that OL is the next area BB will try to address. The difference is that barring a large run there are 4-5 T's and a G that can fall into the 20-30 range. The value at that point would be to trade back into the mid 20's and pick up extra picks. Trading back even from 17 to say 25 with Sea or 26 with Balt would net at the very least a 3rd and maybe another later pick. Why would either move up, well if the 4 players I listed are taken then someone has to drop and one person might be Amukamara. Both teams need a CB and if Amukamara is available then it wouldn't be a stretch to say either trades up for him. The other option is one of the QB's drops in which case I feel a team like Buf, Ari, or Cinn would over pay to move up and grab a QB. To move from where they are in the 2nd and get back into the 1st the price might end up being a 2nd, a 4th, and a 1st next year. Now on to #28, if a DE wasn't taken with #17 then I think they go with Wilkerson before the Jets snag him. Wilkerson imo is that last DE that could make an immediate impact so as a 5 tech guy he seems the natural choice. Now if DE was taken at 17 I don't see a ton of value in the OLB's at #28 so the choice seems to natural go to either trade out or go OL. The drop off in talent for T's is pretty large to the next level so T seems to be a good fit for the value at that pick. Now when a run starts on T's they are going to go quick but I don't see all of the top 5 T's being taken before pick 28 so there will be someone there, just a matter of who. Smith and Solder will most likely be gone but it seems that one of Costanzo, Camiri, Sherrod will be there. My preference is Costanzo out of the group but any should be able to step in and compete for a starting job right away. With #33 this is a no brainier you trade back into the mid 2nd. The value of the pick is much greater then the players that will be there. Now after trading back that mid 2nd round pick goes one of 2 ways. By now you've taken care of DE so depending on if you went after a OL or an OLB with the previous picks you grab the other here. Players like Acho, Reed, Watkins, Ijanala could be taken in this range. Ideally you went DE with #17 and T with #28 so here's where you grab your OLB. At #60 seems like the perfect place to find a G. That's where the most value lies. Players like Cannon, Moffitt, Barksdale, and yes even Watkins might be found here (I say Watkins because with his age and the uncertainty of a lockout I think most teams will shy away with the risk of him losing a year do to the lockout and getting that much older). It seems like a solid road map to me given BB's history, the value of the picks verses players around those picks, and filling needs on the team, but what do you guys think?
    Posted by PatsEng


    Now that is a well thought out and intelligent analysis. Thank you. I tried to do this with about 40 posts, and you managed it in 1!

    I would agree totally with what you have presented here on what BB's strategy may be given past tendencies, strength in this draft, need, etc.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Pats7393 - I truthfully don't know much about Guy. He wasn't a player I followed so the only thing I can rely on is scouting reports. From what I've read he struggles against the run and is weaker at the POA which is one reason they are sceptical keeping him as a 43 DT. With the Pats a 3 down DE is typically used to take on double teams and set the edge first then rushing when the opportunity presents itself. Now I can see he has all the tools to become an impact DE and if we don't grab Wilkerson, Watt, or Jordan then his potential is worth taking but right now I wouldn't call him an immediate impact player. He needs some work at POA and against runs before I toss him into the impact DE category.

    I'm also going to catch flak for Heyward not being on my list either but he's just way to inconsistent for my tastes. He has the potential to be up there with Watt or Jordan but at the same time his play can dip below average. For a 1st he's to bi-polar of player for me but for a mid to late 2nd he'd be worth a look. 
     
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