2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Critter23. Show Critter23's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet, quickly get in out of the sun, pour some water over yourself and lie down.  I don't like either 17 or 33.  The other guys are ok for the end of the draft.  Drink lots of liquids, then get back out there.  You can do better than this.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    kenscreen,

    In your scenario we'd be giving up greater value than we are getting back, 792 vs. 742.  First off I think it is SD that approached us.  The team seeking the trade usually gives the greater value to the team giving up the spot.  I think it will be a cleaner trade than the one you suggest, #28 (660) for #51 and #60 (690).  This will be a draft day trade once we are on the clock at 28 and assuming SD's guy is still there.  SD is probably looking at a 34 DE at 18 i.e. Jordan.  Then at 28 they would be looking at either WR Torrey Smith, a slipping Mark Ingram or the last decent OT on the board; or they could go OT at 18 then come back for Heyward or Taylor at 28.  The Jets are eyeing Taylor at 30, so SD can jump them.  I don't think the Pats are interested in Taylor with his question marks and our depth at nose.

    I'm wondering why we would be interested in trading back from 28.  We don't need a slew of extra draft picks.  One thought, as I expressed, is BB knows they could get Watt, Jordan, Kerrigan or Smith at 17.  But another thought occurred to me just now.  We know teams in the top 10 have approached us about trading down for extra picks.  We know WAS wants out of 10 and I'm sure other teams with many needs want to move back especially given the uncertainty of free agency.  What if BB is planning to package 33 and 17 to make a bold move up to 7?  The reason then for trading back from 28 is to regain the pick he gave up but in a lower slot where he likes the value, i.e., the 2nd round.  BB likes to draft OL in the 2nd round and later.

    SF is sitting at 7.  They are a frequent draft trading partner.  They have many holes to fill where we have just a couple.  Depending how the top of the draft goes we could see Miller, Peterson, Fairley or Quinn sitting there at 7.  In fact it's a near certainty that one of them will be there.  Miller makes it to 7 only if Gabbert is on the board at 5.  If Peterson is there, his value is so great that moving up for him is still worth it considering our #30 rank against the pass last year.

    Another fact is since BB took over, the Pats have had 3 picks in the top 15.  Each time they went front 7 on Defense, 2001 6th overall for Seymour, 2003 13th overall for Warren and 2008 10th overall for Jarod Mayo.  We traded up one spot for Warren.  Pick 17 is the 4th highest pick we've had from 2000 to now.  This is a small sample size but the world knows our biggest need is getting pressure on the QB.  Miller and Quinn would provide that pressure from the 2nd level while Fairley and Watt would provide the pressure from the front.  Dallas will either take Watt or Amukamara so moving ahead of them if we want Watt is necessary.

    So, I think we could sit tight at 17 and take Kerrigan or go up big to 7 and take Watt, Quinn or Miller.  After doing this, we trade down from 28 and then still have 3 second round picks to address OL and skill positions.

    So these would appear to be our choices:

    Option 1

    #7  Miller, Quinn or Watt
    #51
    #60
    #61
    #74
    #92

    or

    Option 2

    #17  Kerrigan/Smith or Jordan
    #33
    #51
    #60
    #61
    #74
    #92
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Rex Ryan made some interesting comments concerning his games against the Pats.  First the only games we lost last year were to Rex and his brother in Cleveland.  He also mentioned that when we had Moss, they didn't need to roll coverage over to him as most teams do.  Basically he's saying that with Revis, they can play straight up because Revis takes his guy completely out of the game, although he acknowledged Moss beat Revis in the first match up for a TD but we lost the game.

    Ryan also said they confused Brady by changing up coverages and assignments.  By getting pressure to Brady, he wasn't able to go through his progressions to find the open man.  Nothing surprising about that statement but it does tend to illustrate we need to protect better, scheme better and perhaps get a WR that can cause problems for Revis.  I don't think anyone causes problems for Revis so what if we had two WRs that were elite?  We could certainly make a play for Jones then perhaps pick up a F/A later.

    I don't think we would do that, I like my last idea better.  Let's go get a pass rusher, Miller or Quinn at 7.  If that doesn't work, roll the dice that Dallas goes with Amukamara.  Then trade up with MIN to get Watt giving back their pick 74.

    I really like the idea of Miller or Quinn but I think Miller is the better pass rusher and has the better character.  Just maybe ARI would take a little less point value and take 17 and 33.  Otherwise it would take 17 and 28 to get to 5.  ARI has more holes than the Titanic and at 17 they could get Mallett and at 28 maybe Pouncey or the last of the top OTs. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    If Peterson is there, I'd have a hard time not taking him. i would consider Jones as well
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kenscreen. Show kenscreen's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

     Thanks for the feedback, I do think that we will move up in this draft. I could see us moving up to #7 and would be excited to see who we bring aboard.

    I agree not all the picks are needed this year, but the OL/DL needs to be upgraded and we may get great offers for #28 and 33.  I look forward to more of your insight and feedback.

    Ken 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]If Peterson is there, I'd have a hard time not taking him. i would consider Jones as well
    Posted by KyleCleric2[/QUOTE]
    At 7 or 17 Kyle?  I think we jump on Peterson at 7 if Miller and Quinn are gone and SF wants to deal (17+33).  Peterson could lock down the other side of the field from McCourty.  We could put Bodden on the slot.

    I think 7 is a little too high for Jones but I would be willing to move up to 13 to get him ahead of STL.  DET needs a CB really bad and if Dallas takes Amuakamara, DET might be willing to drop a few spots and take Jimmy Smith.  The cost to move from 17 to 13 is 200 points or pick 74 with a 6th round kicker coming back.

    With Peterson our secondary would become the best in the NFL.  We'll start getting a lot more coverage sacks even with our current front 7.

    But for me, Miller at 7 or Watt at 12 would be awesome.  We then trade back 28 and pick up 50 and 61. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    If we can get Watt at 12 by giving up 74, we can trade 28 to SD for 51 and 60.  We can then do this.

    #12.  DE JJ Watt
    #33.  OLB Brooks Reed
    #50.  RT Orlando Franklin
    #60.  RB Kendall Hunter
    #61.  WR Titus Young
    #94.  C/OG John Moffitt
    4th.   CB Buster Skrine
    5th.   WR Jeff Maehl
    6th.   RB Mario Fannin
    6C.    OG Justin Boren

    With Bodden and Warren coming back our D will already be better.  Now we add JJ Watt who has a tireless motor and is always in the back field and batting down balls with that 6-6 frame and 37 inch vertical leap.  He will also get through the line and add 6-8 sacks from his DE position.  Brooks Reed is a fan favorite on here.  He sneaks past GB if LeShoure is available.  In the fourth we add a very speedy CB who shows a ton of potential and would be an asset on special teams.  So, we've brought help to all three levels of the defense with elite help up front.

    Orlando Franklin tore his meniscus and missed all the post season stuff.  He is every bit as athletic and quick as Castonzo if not quicker.  At 6-6, 316 he can play LT or RT.  Franklin is a solid run blocker so I think I like him better on the right side.  Later on we add a player we all love in John Moffitt.  Moffitt is a great guy and excellent run blocker.  He is diverse able to play center or guard.  We add a quick back that can run, catch and block in Kendall Hunter and a bigger version of him in Mario Fannin.  Adding these two young guys and getting rid of Morris, Faulk and Taylor keeps the cupboards full at RB for years.  Then finally we add a pair of receivers, a vertical threat in Young and a slot guy with amazing change in direction and ball skills in Maehl.  We are now set at WR should Branch and/or Welker go down.

    I love every bit of this draft and if we do even half this good we can punch our ticket to the Super Bowl.  Thoughts?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Haven't done a 1st round in a while (before the combine) I don't think this one is hard to believe except for a few spots and they are very clear when you get to them.

    1st Round
    1CarBlaine GabbertQB
    2DenMarcell DareusDT
    3BufVon MillerOLB
    4CinCam NewtonQB
    5AriPatrick PetersonCB
    6CleA.J. GreenWR
    7SFRobert QuinnOLB
    8TenDa'Quan BowersDE
    9DalPrince AmukamaraCB
    10WasJulio JonesWR
    11HouAldon SmithOLB
    12MinNick FairleyDT
    13DetTyron SmithOT
    14StLCorey LiugetDT
    15MiaMark IngramRB
    16JacCameron JordanDE
    Still available at 17:  JJ Watt, Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Castonzo, Adrian Clayborn, Muhammad Wilkerson
    17NEJ.J. WattDE
    18SDMuhammad WilkersonDE
    19NYGAnthony CastonzoOT
    20TBAdrian ClaybornDE
    21KCPhil Taylor NT
    22IndGabe CarimiOT
    23PhiDerek SherrodOT
    24NOJabaal SheardDE
    25SeaJimmy SmithCB
    26BalNate SolderOT
    27AtlAkeem AyersDE
    Still available at 28: Brooks Reed, Martez Wilson, Brandon Harris, Aaron Williams, Mikel LeShoure, Cameron Heyward, Danny Watkins
    28NEBrooks ReedOLB
    29ChiMike PounceyOG/C
    30NYJCameron HeywardDE
    31PitDanny WatkinsOG
    32GBJustin HoustonOLB
    2nd Round
    33NEBradon HarrisCB
    60NEKendall HunterRB
    3rd Round
    74NEJames CarpenterOT/OG
    92NEJohn MoffitOG/C
    4th Round
    124NEK.J. WrightOLB
    5th Round
    156NEDenarius MooreWR
    6th Round
    188NEDeJon GomesS
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from PatsLifer. Show PatsLifer's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***


    Faucet,

    That rumor that you posted about the Pats possibly trading 28 to San Diego for both of their 2nds...where did you see it?

    Perhaps this is a smokescreen, BB trying to create a market for 28, maybe it's real. At any rat, assuming it has some truth to it, I'd be all over it. I'd love to have 50 & 61 as I believe there is a ton of value all through round 2 and into round 3.

    Assuming the rumor to be true, I think I would load up on OL talent in round 2 and put that baby to bed with some high quallity guys.

    I've been saying for a while now, probably 20 pages go or more, I'm on the Kerrigan train at 17, back in support of MB who kicked this whole thing off with his analysis on Kerrigan. I think BB is going to take Kerrigan at 17, and i think he will not draft a DE (assuming Kerrigan converts to OLB) in round 1. For what it's worth, those are my predictions. Lets see if it holds up.

    Also, I don't think BB will take a tackle or guard in round 1.
    The possible trade with San Diego makes a ton of sense for us. It's right in line with our sweet spot and BB's past tendencies, so why not?

    In terms of who San Diego is targeting....My thoughts are that they will use 18 on Aldon Smith...and then want to jump back into round 1 at 28 to either draft Wilkerson or possibly an OT. That's what I think (if the rumor is true) they could do. I think ASmith and Kerrigan will be there at 17, and I think we wil take Kerrigan over Smith.

    In terms of Jimmy Smith at 17..no way. Yes he's a huge talent, but we already have a knucklehead in Meriweather that we took in round 1, and I don't want any questions with that pick. Assuming the San Diego rumor to be true, I would like to see something like this....

    17.  DE/OLB Kerrian
    33.  DE Heyward (I think the Jets get him at 30...if so, I'm with CB BHarris here)
    50.  WR Baldwin
    60.  RB DThomas (nice compliment to Woody and BJGE)
    61.  C/G Stefen Wisniewski
    74.  OT Barksdale (I know you don't like him, but he has textbook technique and will make a good RT) 
    92.  Jarvs Jenkins/Sione Fua (I can see either of the for our 4-3, upgrades over both Love and Pryor). I would look to reduce the # of DL we have, and trade 2 average for 1 potential better.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ender587. Show Ender587's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucet,

    I like this..
    12.  DE JJ Watt
    33.  OLB Brooks Reed
    50.  RT Orlando Franklin
    60.  RB Kendall Hunter
    61.  WR Titus Young
    94.  C/OG John Moffitt
    4th. CB Buster Skrine
    5th. WR Jeff Maehl
    6th. RB Mario Fannin
    6C.  OG Justin Boren

    Much better than this..
    17.  CB Jimmy Smith
    33.  RB Mark Ingram
    50.  OLB Brooks Reed
    60.  WR Jon Baldwin
    61.  C/G Stefen Wisniewski
    74.  FS Quinton Carter
    92.  TE Lance Kendricks

    I dont think Ingrams making it past the first round.  Miami is going to get him I believe, if they pass then NYG, NO, GB.  Especially Greenbay after Ryan Grant went down last year and they didnt have a viable backup until they found starx.  Brooks reed is also a huge maybe at 50 sense he's flying up the board momentarily.

    Jumping up to that 7 - 12 range is the way to go In my opinion.  We get our stud DE/OLB combo and 2 solid Linemen in Moffit and Franklin.  Everyone after these picks are just luxuries. This isnt my favorite mock ive seen but you never know whos going to fall to you.  Id take this mock in a heartbeat.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    4,000th post lol
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    4001 and countin' ...

    THIS THREAD IS A BEAST !
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    McShay on Sam Acho
    I must be really bad or he's completely wrong

    1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal

    Defensive End Specific Traits

    Pass Rush Skills3Lacks elite first-step quickness. Also a bit stiff in the torso and does not have great bend to shave the corner with speed rush. Going to have issues gaining the edge at the NFL level. However, flashes effective power moves and can occasionally rock OTs back into the pocket. Also uses hands well to keep blockers hands off of frame. Does a nice job of staying with rush to register effort sacks.
    Versus the run3Plays with leverage when having edge responsibility. Appears to have a strong upper body and uses arms well to lock out and stack blockers. However, lacks an elite anchor and can be engulfed by more massive and powerful OTs. Was seen reduced inside to 5-technique or 4-technique during film study and struggled to hold the point. On the other hand, possesses quick and explosive hands to disengage and get involved in play. Generally a strong wrap-up tackler in confined areas. Overall range against the run is adequate at best. Will have some limitations in space especially when caught in one-on-one situations in the open field.
    Versatility4Area of weakness. Athleticism is good and generally plays on his feet with balance. However, change of direction skills are average at best and maybe a liability if having to play in space. Also lacks the anchor to hold the point if asked to reduced inside.
    Instincts/Motor2No question about effort and plays with a consistent motor. Fights to work through traffic in pursuit. Instincts are good but not elite. Can be a second late finding the ball off of play action or misdirection plays. Disciplined working from the backside and does a nice job of closing off cutback lanes.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    On Reed

    Defensive End Specific Traits

    Pass Rush Skills2Good production when healthy. Above-average initial burst off the line of scrimmage. Shows quality rip and swim moves. Technically sound and has a very good motor. Can bend the edge tightly and shows outstanding leverage/flexibility. Will fight to get through the double team and works hard through the whistle. Closing burst is good but not elite.
    Versus the run3Is undersized and occasionally can get overwhelmed at the point of attack when blockers lock on. But he maximizes his physical tools versus the run thanks to excellent effort and technique. Very good job with first step. Is quick off the ball, uses outstanding leverage and hand technique to take on and disengage from bigger blockers. Also takes on blockers with the proper shoulder (typically left shoulder at RDE) to ensure gap discipline. Strong tackler for the position. Rarely fails to wrap up when he's in position.
    Versatility2Flashes the potential to be developed into a rush linebacker in the NFL. Not a great athlete but shows good quickness and adequate hip flexibility on tape when dropping into underneath zone. Displays awareness and discipline in coverage.
    Instincts/Motor2Is disciplined and executes his assignments. Shows good awareness in all phases of the game. Is tough and aggressive. Flies around the field and is clearly passionate about the game. Will chip the TE when necessary. Does a nice job of keeping outside leverage versus the run.
    1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Watt

    Defensive End Specific Traits

    Pass Rush Skills2Lacks elite first-step quickness. Carries his weight well but is not an elite pass rusher. Lacks lateral agility on double-moves. But still is a three-down defensive end. Power-to-speed rusher. Shows savvy setting up offensive linemen. Has quick, violent hands. Can get off of blocks quickly, finds the quarterback quickly and shows very good closing burst for his size. Much faster finishing than he is starting. Has rare instincts when it comes to getting hands up and either batting down passes or affecting QB's passing lane. Always active and never stops hustling. Absolutely relentless.
    Versus the run2Stronger upper body than lower body. Could play with better pad level at times. Fights hard to anchor but will give up some ground on occasion versus combo blocks. At his best when he can keep active. Exceptional hand usage. Shows violent, quick hands and knows how to use them. Keeps head up, finds the ball and disengages as quickly as any defensive lineman in this class. Takes good angles in pursuit and shows better straight-line speed once he has momentum than anticipated.
    Versatility3Can slide inside and rush the passer on occasion. Has the frame and upper body strength to develop into an effective 5-technique but needs to get stronger in the lower body.
    Instincts/Motor1Snap awareness is generally very good. Will take the bait versus the option on occasion and leaves his defensive scheme vulnerable. But his overall awareness is exceptional. Finds the ball and keeps his head on a swivel. Shows outstanding anticipation. No defensive lineman in this class does a better job of getting his hands up and affecting the quarterbacks' throwing lane. Is absolutely relentless. Tremendous motor.
    1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Let me know which player you'll like to see, I might be able to get it.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Haven't done a 1st round in a while (before the combine) I don't think this one is hard to believe except for a few spots and they are very clear when you get to them. 1st Round 1 Car Blaine Gabbert QB 2 Den Marcell Dareus DT 3 Buf Von Miller OLB 4 Cin Cam Newton QB 5 Ari Patrick Peterson CB 6 Cle A.J. Green WR 7 SF Robert Quinn OLB 8 Ten Da'Quan Bowers DE 9 Dal Prince Amukamara CB 10 Was Julio Jones WR 11 Hou Aldon Smith OLB 12 Min Nick Fairley DT 13 Det Tyron Smith OT 14 StL Corey Liuget DT 15 Mia Mark Ingram RB 16 Jac Cameron Jordan DE Still available at 17:   JJ Watt, Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Castonzo, Adrian Clayborn, Muhammad Wilkerson 17 NE J.J. Watt DE 18 SD Muhammad Wilkerson DE 19 NYG Anthony Castonzo OT 20 TB Adrian Clayborn DE 21 KC Phil Taylor   NT 22 Ind Gabe Carimi OT 23 Phi Derek Sherrod OT 24 NO Jabaal Sheard DE 25 Sea Jimmy Smith CB 26 Bal Nate Solder OT 27 Atl Akeem Ayers DE Still available at 28: Brooks Reed, Martez Wilson, Brandon Harris, Aaron Williams, Mikel LeShoure, Cameron Heyward, Danny Watkins 28 NE Brooks Reed OLB 29 Chi Mike Pouncey OG/C 30 NYJ Cameron Heyward DE 31 Pit Danny Watkins OG 32 GB Justin Houston OLB 2nd Round 33 NE Bradon Harris CB 60 NE Kendall Hunter RB 3rd Round 74 NE James Carpenter OT/OG 92 NE John Moffit OG/C 4th Round 124 NE K.J. Wright OLB 5th Round 156 NE Denarius Moore WR 6th Round 188 NE DeJon Gomes S
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]BB will take Pouncey if he's available at 28 unless SD or some other team wows him for that selection spot.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Faucetman. Show Faucetman's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Just saw this Mock by Cirminiello on Path to the Draft.  I forgot Cleveland was switching to the 4-3.  I actually think this mock makes a ton of sense.

    OrderSchm Team PlayerPos
    14-3CARBlaine GabbertQB
    24-3DENMarcell DareusDT
    33-4BUFCam NewtonQB
    44-3CINAJ GreenWR
    53-4ARIVon MillerOLB
    64-3CLEDa'Quan BowersDE
    73-4SFPatrick PetersonCB
    84-3TENNick FairleyDT
    93-4DALPrince AmukamaraCB
    103-4WASJulio JonesWR

    So, do we make a play to get to 7 using 17 and 33 for Peterson?  Assuming the above holds true, Peterson at 7 would be considered the best value in all the draft.  But it just isn't BB's way to move up that far. 

    I've done some research on what local experts on the remaining teams are saying about who their choice should be.

    Quinn and Watt are on the board with Houston on the clock at 11.  If the above unfolds, Houston is in a bind because their top needs are TE, DT, SF, SS and CB.  However Houston is switching to a 3-4 under Wade Phillips.  After ranking last in the NFL in point allowed, Houston is going defense.  If Dallas takes Prince, Houston could benefit from a 5 technique in Watt or Jordan or take Quinn and move him around from OLB to DE in nickel sets.  Or, Houston could look to trade down to put Jimmy Smith at a more affordable position, perhaps with the Pats.  My research has Quinn, Watt, Jordan, Jimmy Smith in that order.  Quinn being here is great value so I'll go with Quinn.

    The Vikings need a QB.  With the lockout they cannot find one so must turn to the draft.  MIN is an aging team that is missing only a QB to contend.  Mallett is largely considered the most NFL ready and while he is a bust or boom pick, Minnesota really doesn't have a choice.  Their other options are Watt, Jordan and Aldon Smith.

    The Lions need a CB so bad they might take a risk on Jimmy Smith.  They might trade down to get him cheaper.  They could be the first team to take an OT but from the local research, the Lions will likely take a DE to pair up with Suh.  Suh said as much in a recent interview.  The DEs that make sense are Aldon Smith, Cam Jordan, JJ Watt and Ryan Kerrigan.  As a 43 team, Watt makes the least sense.  Cameron Jordan is a bit smaller and more explosive than Watt and experts are saying Jordan is a better fit as a 43 end.  Jordan is ahead of Smith and Kerrigan on most boards so he will be the Lions choice.

    The Rams would love to see Jones on the board but he won't last.  Their next choice would be DE but Quinn and Jordan, their top choices are gone so they address their next highest need, DT.  The best DT on the board is Corey Liuget.  I look for the Rams to trade down if they can before taking Liuget.

    On to Miami at 15.  Conventional wisdom says Ingram but let's not forget, Ireland has not taken an offensive skill player in the top 2 rounds in his 3 year tenure.  Most local sources think Miami will attempt to trade down.  I agree with this logic with NE and SD likely vying for JJ Watt.  However, assuming Miami stays put they know they can land a RB in the 3rd or 4th round (they don't have a 2nd round pick).  I see them looking at but passing on Pouncey, looking at but passing on Torrey Smith and instead drafting a Florida kid and draft riser, Christian Ponder.

    In Jacksonville, the local press thinks Christian Ponder, Cam Jordan or Aldon Smith are the top choices.  With the first two gone, this leave Aldon.

    NEW ENGLAND GETS JJ WATT AT 17.  I wish it were that easy.  SD has a propensity to make bold moves up for players they love and next to NE, they have the most ammo to do it.  However, if they stay put, we get Watt.  I didn't even wish this into being, it just fell into place. 

    113-4HOU55Robert QuinnDE
    124-3MIN65Ryan MallettQB
    134-3DET69Cameron JordanDE
    144-3STL65Corey LiugetDT
    153-4MIA51Christian PonderQB
    164-3JAX67Aldon SmithOLB
    173-4NE52JJ WattDE

    The above considers no trades but there will be trades in the top 17, a bunch of them.  So all bets are off.

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Haven't done a 1st round in a while (before the combine) I don't think this one is hard to believe except for a few spots and they are very clear when you get to them. 1st Round 1 Car Blaine Gabbert QB 2 Den Marcell Dareus DT 3 Buf Von Miller OLB 4 Cin Cam Newton QB 5 Ari Patrick Peterson CB 6 Cle A.J. Green WR 7 SF Robert Quinn OLB 8 Ten Da'Quan Bowers DE 9 Dal Prince Amukamara CB 10 Was Julio Jones WR 11 Hou Aldon Smith OLB 12 Min Nick Fairley DT 13 Det Tyron Smith OT 14 StL Corey Liuget DT 15 Mia Mark Ingram RB 16 Jac Cameron Jordan DE Still available at 17:   JJ Watt, Ryan Kerrigan, Anthony Castonzo, Adrian Clayborn, Muhammad Wilkerson 17 NE J.J. Watt DE 18 SD Muhammad Wilkerson DE 19 NYG Anthony Castonzo OT 20 TB Adrian Clayborn DE 21 KC Phil Taylor   NT 22 Ind Gabe Carimi OT 23 Phi Derek Sherrod OT 24 NO Jabaal Sheard DE 25 Sea Jimmy Smith CB 26 Bal Nate Solder OT 27 Atl Akeem Ayers DE Still available at 28: Brooks Reed, Martez Wilson, Brandon Harris, Aaron Williams, Mikel LeShoure, Cameron Heyward, Danny Watkins 28 NE Brooks Reed OLB 29 Chi Mike Pouncey OG/C 30 NYJ Cameron Heyward DE 31 Pit Danny Watkins OG 32 GB Justin Houston OLB 2nd Round 33 NE Bradon Harris CB 60 NE Kendall Hunter RB 3rd Round 74 NE James Carpenter OT/OG 92 NE John Moffit OG/C 4th Round 124 NE K.J. Wright OLB 5th Round 156 NE Denarius Moore WR 6th Round 188 NE DeJon Gomes S
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Pretty solid mock.  I would take Castonzo at #17 and Heyward at #28 in this scenario.

    TB
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Let me know which player you'll like to see, I might be able to get it.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]


    martez wilson please. i think he could be a good 2nd round pick up due to his ability to be an ILB and a OLB
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : martez wilson please. i think he could be a good 2nd round pick up due to his ability to be an ILB and a OLB
    Posted by natesubs[/QUOTE]

    Interesting, couldn't find him because he's got him listed as an OLB.  Wilson should defenately be in the conversation in the 33 range.  He's an interesting prospect, I do have a few concerns herniated disc was operated on will it become a problem again.  Does he have the bend to get around the edge?

    Outside Linebacker Specific Traits

    Instincts/Recognition3Shows above average instincts against the run. Reads keys and locates ball quickly. Keeps head up and can adjust when ball carrier changes course. Below average awareness in coverage and gets caught in no-man's land too much. Can bite on play action and get spun around. Gets caught peeking into the backfield and loses track of receivers when drops into zone.
    Strength/Toughness2Downhill run stopper that doesn't shy away from contact. Meets lead blockers and backs in the hole. Strong upper body and ability to post up offensive linemen allows him to track the ball once engaged. Flashes the ability to stack and shed in time to make plays at the line of scrimmage. Plays too upright and concerned about ability to protect legs from cut blocks. Endurance could be an issue. Appears to wear down at times.
    Range vs. Run2Above-average straight-line speed and sideline-to-sideline player when he's fresh. However, there is some stiffness in hips. Will struggle to redirect and get into sound tackling position when over pursues.
    Tackling3Effective wrap-up tackler between the tackles but can whiff trying to deliver the big hit in space. Doesn't always keep head on downfield side of ball carrier.
    3rd Down Capabilities3Powerful pass rusher that flashes the ability to run over backs in the backfield. Closes well and can deliver the big hit when gets to the quarterback. Active hands. Effective slap to swim. Has experience lining up on the outside and can rush off the edge but didn't show the ability to dip and bend back inside. No urgency in drops and could get to depth quicker in zone coverage. Can jam and run with tight ends but lacks ideal man-to-man cover skills.
    1 = Exceptional2 = Above average3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Let me know which player you'll like to see, I might be able to get it.
    Posted by Pats7393[/QUOTE]

    Interested in hearing about Kerrigan and if they are there WR Terrance Toliver, CB Curtis Brown, and S Shiloh Keo
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Faucetman I tried to answer your prior post but some twit manning the censor key thought I wrote a word that I didn't. At any rate Watt @ 17 and Pouncey at 28 barring any trades and of course availibilty!
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Just saw this Mock by Cirminiello on Path to the Draft.  I forgot Cleveland was switching to the 4-3.  I actually think this mock makes a ton of sense. Order Schm   Team   Player Post 1 4-3 CAR Blaine Gabbert QB 2 4-3 DEN Marcell Dareus DT 3 3-4 BUF Cam Newton QB 4 4-3 CIN AJ Green WR 5 3-4 ARI Von Miller OLB 6 4-3 CLE Da'Quan Bowers DE 7 3-4 SF Patrick Peterson CB 8 4-3 TEN Nick Fairley DT 9 3-4 DAL Prince Amukamara CB 10 3-4 WAS Julio Jones WR So, do we make a play to get to 7 using 17 and 33 for Peterson?  Assuming the above holds true, Peterson at 7 would be considered the best value in all the draft.  But it just isn't BB's way to move up that far.  I've done some research on what local experts on the remaining teams are saying about who their choice should be. Quinn and Watt are on the board with Houston on the clock at 11.  If the above unfolds, Houston is in a bind because their top needs are TE, DT, SF, SS and CB.  However Houston is switching to a 3-4 under Wade Phillips.  After ranking last in the NFL in point allowed, Houston is going defense.  If Dallas takes Prince, Houston could benefit from a 5 technique in Watt or Jordan or take Quinn and move him around from OLB to DE in nickel sets.  Or, Houston could look to trade down to put Jimmy Smith at a more affordable position, perhaps with the Pats.  My research has Quinn, Watt, Jordan, Jimmy Smith in that order.  Quinn being here is great value so I'll go with Quinn. The Vikings need a QB.  With the lockout they cannot find one so must turn to the draft.  MIN is an aging team that is missing only a QB to contend.  Mallett is largely considered the most NFL ready and while he is a bust or boom pick, Minnesota really doesn't have a choice.  Their other options are Watt, Jordan and Aldon Smith. The Lions need a CB so bad they might take a risk on Jimmy Smith.  They might trade down to get him cheaper.  They could be the first team to take an OT but from the local research, the Lions will likely take a DE to pair up with Suh.  Suh said as much in a recent interview.  The DEs that make sense are Aldon Smith, Cam Jordan, JJ Watt and Ryan Kerrigan.  As a 43 team, Watt makes the least sense.  Cameron Jordan is a bit smaller and more explosive than Watt and experts are saying Jordan is a better fit as a 43 end.  Jordan is ahead of Smith and Kerrigan on most boards so he will be the Lions choice. The Rams would love to see Jones on the board but he won't last.  Their next choice would be DE but Quinn and Jordan, their top choices are gone so they address their next highest need, DT.  The best DT on the board is Corey Liuget.  I look for the Rams to trade down if they can before taking Liuget. On to Miami at 15.  Conventional wisdom says Ingram but let's not forget, Ireland has not taken an offensive skill player in the top 2 rounds in his 3 year tenure.  Most local sources think Miami will attempt to trade down.  I agree with this logic with NE and SD likely vying for JJ Watt.  However, assuming Miami stays put they know they can land a RB in the 3rd or 4th round (they don't have a 2nd round pick).  I see them looking at but passing on Pouncey, looking at but passing on Torrey Smith and instead drafting a Florida kid and draft riser, Christian Ponder. In Jacksonville, the local press thinks Christian Ponder, Cam Jordan or Aldon Smith are the top choices.  With the first two gone, this leave Aldon. NEW ENGLAND GETS JJ WATT AT 17.  I wish it were that easy.  SD has a propensity to make bold moves up for players they love and next to NE, they have the most ammo to do it.  However, if they stay put, we get Watt.  I didn't even wish this into being, it just fell into place.  11 3-4 HOU 55 Robert Quinn DE 12 4-3 MIN 65 Ryan Mallett QB 13 4-3 DET 69 Cameron Jordan DE 14 4-3 STL 65 Corey Liuget DT 15 3-4 MIA 51 Christian Ponder QB 16 4-3 JAX 67 Aldon Smith OLB 17 3-4 NE 52 JJ Watt DE The above considers no trades but there will be trades in the top 17, a bunch of them.  So all bets are off.
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    This is the 3rd time I've seen Gabbert mocked #1. Do you really think Carolina would take him? If I was the Carolina GM, I would take a long term approach here. Take the best defensive player on the board (Dareus/Peterson, etc.), stink it up for another year, then draft your QB of the future in Luck.

    For Watt to fall to 17, I few dominos have to fall, and we have to get a bit lucky. I'll say this again, as much as  I like Watt, I think BB goes in a different direction at 17.

    If you really feel Watt is what we need and you are sold on him, then I might think we would try to trade first round picks with St. Louis especially if Miami might be wanting to trade out, and San Diego looking possibly to move up to grab Watt. I think 14 should get it done for Watt. Of course, San Diego might try the same tactic if they really want him.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]kenscreen, In your scenario we'd be giving up greater value than we are getting back, 792 vs. 742.  First off I think it is SD that approached us.  The team seeking the trade usually gives the greater value to the team giving up the spot.  I think it will be a cleaner trade than the one you suggest, #28 (660) for #51 and #60 (690).  This will be a draft day trade once we are on the clock at 28 and assuming SD's guy is still there.  SD is probably looking at a 34 DE at 18 i.e. Jordan.  Then at 28 they would be looking at either WR Torrey Smith, a slipping Mark Ingram or the last decent OT on the board; or they could go OT at 18 then come back for Heyward or Taylor at 28.  The Jets are eyeing Taylor at 30, so SD can jump them.  I don't think the Pats are interested in Taylor with his question marks and our depth at nose. I'm wondering why we would be interested in trading back from 28.  We don't need a slew of extra draft picks.  One thought, as I expressed, is BB knows they could get Watt, Jordan, Kerrigan or Smith at 17.  But another thought occurred to me just now.  We know teams in the top 10 have approached us about trading down for extra picks.  We know WAS wants out of 10 and I'm sure other teams with many needs want to move back especially given the uncertainty of free agency.  What if BB is planning to package 33 and 17 to make a bold move up to 7?  The reason then for trading back from 28 is to regain the pick he gave up but in a lower slot where he likes the value, i.e., the 2nd round.  BB likes to draft OL in the 2nd round and later. SF is sitting at 7.  They are a frequent draft trading partner.  They have many holes to fill where we have just a couple.  Depending how the top of the draft goes we could see Miller, Peterson, Fairley or Quinn sitting there at 7.  In fact it's a near certainty that one of them will be there.  Miller makes it to 7 only if Gabbert is on the board at 5.  If Peterson is there, his value is so great that moving up for him is still worth it considering our #30 rank against the pass last year. Another fact is since BB took over, the Pats have had 3 picks in the top 15.  Each time they went front 7 on Defense, 2001 6th overall for Seymour, 2003 13th overall for Warren and 2008 10th overall for Jarod Mayo.  We traded up one spot for Warren.  Pick 17 is the 4th highest pick we've had from 2000 to now.  This is a small sample size but the world knows our biggest need is getting pressure on the QB.  Miller and Quinn would provide that pressure from the 2nd level while Fairley and Watt would provide the pressure from the front.  Dallas will either take Watt or Amukamara so moving ahead of them if we want Watt is necessary. So, I think we could sit tight at 17 and take Kerrigan or go up big to 7 and take Watt, Quinn or Miller.  After doing this, we trade down from 28 and then still have 3 second round picks to address OL and skill positions. So these would appear to be our choices: Option 1 #7  Miller, Quinn or Watt #51 #60 #61 #74 #92 or Option 2 #17  Kerrigan/Smith or Jordan #33 #51 #60 #61 #74 #92
    Posted by Faucetman[/QUOTE]

    in addition to what Faucet says here about the 3 times we had top 15 picks is the fact that even the year we chose Mayo at 10, we traded down from 7 if memory serves. Coach loves trading down for value more than any other coach in the league.

    I agree also with alot of you in that it seems time to finally cash in all these great draft chips we have and get the game changers on defense that can give us 1 or 2 more wins in the super bowl. Anyway that is my take on it.

    Keep up the great work guys. I don't make to many comments but I read everyone of your comments everynight. I think there are alot of great ideas you guys share and I honestly hope BB has some of the same thoughts.  Good work guys!!
     

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