2011 Patriots Draft Options ***THANKS TO ALL WHO CONTRIBUTED!***

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Reiss' page, a feel for 28th pick

    "The Patriots owned the 28th pick in 2007, and traded it to San Francisco for a 2007 fourth-round pick and a 2008 first-round pick.  So that's a potential barometer for what type of value the Patriots could receive in return for the selection this year."

    I believe this pick might be a bit more valuable this year because of the QBs that should be available late 1st early 2nd.  Could see the Cards give up a 1st 2012 and 3rd this year since they hold multiple. Anyway it shapes up it's bound to be a trade out of 1st round.

    Teams in play, any of the 32 wanting another 1st rnd pick but most likely it will be a QBless team maybe all the way to Jacksonville at 49. 
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393


    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf NoneBufCastonzoOTmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Locker QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Rudolph TE Low
    37CleNone ClePaeaDLMbeaulieu07
    38NE (Ari 33) None NE Kenrick Ellis DL TrustBill
    39Ten None Ten Liuget DL Low
    40Dal None Dal Hudson C/OG pats7393
    41Was None Was B Harris CB Low
    42Hou None Hou JSmith CB digger0862
    43Det None Det B. Ijalana OT/OG pats7393
    44Min None Min A. Bailey DE/DT titletownfan
    45SF None
     SF B. Carter
     OLB Low
    46Den 50 ,136 NE Mikel LeShoure RB CaptFox
    47Oak     
    48StL     
    49Jac     
    50DEN (NE SD 28)     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60NE     
    61NE (SD 28)     
    62Chi     
    63Pit     
    64GB     

    Good morning Vietnam ...
    BB & Elway /Fox Shake it up . 

    Note (Pats #136 aquired via trade back of #33 with Ari. )
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYPatsFan12. Show NYPatsFan12's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393


    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf NoneBufCastonzoOTmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Locker QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Rudolph TE Low
    37CleNone ClePaeaDLMbeaulieu07
    38NE (Ari 33) None NE Kenrick Ellis DL TrustBill
    39Ten None Ten Liuget DL Low
    40Dal None Dal Hudson C/OG pats7393
    41Was None Was B Harris CB Low
    42Hou None Hou JSmith CB digger0862
    43Det None Det B. Ijalana OT/OG pats7393
    44Min None Min A. Bailey DE/DT titletownfan
    45SF None
     SF B. Carter
     OLB Low
    46Den 50 ,136 NE Mikel LeShoure RB CaptFox
    47Oak None Oak Rahim More S NYPatsFan12
    48StL     
    49Jac     
    50DEN (NE SD 28)     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60NE     
    61NE (SD 28)     
    62Chi     
    63Pit     
    64GB     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Pats7393. Show Pats7393's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393


    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf NoneBufCastonzoOTmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Locker QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Rudolph TE Low
    37CleNone ClePaeaDLMbeaulieu07
    38NE (Ari 33) None NE Kenrick Ellis DL TrustBill
    39Ten None Ten Liuget DL Low
    40Dal None Dal Hudson C/OG pats7393
    41Was None Was B Harris CB Low
    42Hou None Hou JSmith CB digger0862
    43Det None Det B. Ijalana OT/OG pats7393
    44Min None Min A. Bailey DE/DT titletownfan
    45SF None
     SF B. Carter
     OLB Low
    46Den 50 ,136 NE M. LeShoure RB CaptFox
    47Oak None Oak Rahim More S NYPatsFan12
    48StL None StL L.Hankerson WR pats7393
    49Jac     
    50DEN (NE SD 28)     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60NE     
    61NE (SD 28)     
    62Chi     
    63Pit     
    64GB     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Low-FB-IQ. Show Low-FB-IQ's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]sorry all,   i'm more interested in discussions about the draft and discussions of mocks for the most part than doing mocks. did you see this: " Hey Jeff, just wondering what your thoughts are on the Pats improving their pass rush. To me, this weakness really became evident through the season and killed them in the playoffs. What do you see them doing to improve in this much-needed area? --Dave M. Consider this a scheme issue, while noting that players play a big role in driving the scheme. On the other side of the argument, Belichick hasn't done much to draft a big-time pass rusher, and that is probably because he values the idea of total team defense over one or two pass-rushing playmakers. While the Patriots' defensive balance worked out well earlier in the decade -- they had at least 40 sacks five times from 2001-07 -- their pass rush has taken a huge hit since 2008 when the core of that championship defense really started to break apart. Also keep in mind, Mike Vrabel (12.5 sacks in 2007) and Tully Banta-Cain (10 sacks in 2009) are the only two Patriots who have recorded at least 10 sacks in a season during Belichick's tenure in New England. Break it down even further, Vrabel (twice), Rosevelt Colvin (twice), Banta-Cain and Willie McGinest are the only outside linebackers who have recorded at least seven sacks in a season during the Belichick era. Belichick added Vrabel and Colvin through free agency. He drafted Banta-Cain in the seventh round in 2003, but he re-signed him through free agency prior to 2009. And McGinest was already on the roster when Belichick took the job. That shows how Belichick has gone about acquiring his best pass-rushing linebackers in New England. Belichick's approach needs some modification, as the Packers and Steelers showed what a defense can do with dominant outside linebackers. But on the other side of that, the Patriots should be aided by defensive end Ty Warren 's return, as well as the addition of one of the draft's high-quality defensive ends who can set the edge, eat up blockers and add to that total-team defensive approach." (my emphasis with the highlight)
    Posted by brdbreu[/QUOTE]

    What should he change?

    You suggesting he change his defense? I hope so because if you are suggesting he change his drafting approach to get OLB's I do NOT see how you get to that conclusion.

    1) You mentioned the Steelers and Packers.

    Both franchises have been consistent so lets take a look at their current OLB situations and how they got them.

    Steelers = James Harrison FA and Lamaar Woodley pick #46, 2nd round. The Patriots also had interest in Woodley that year but he was gone before they picked again. Neither player mentioned however was traded up into the top 10 for.

    So we covered one of the teams you used as a reference for how its done and your own reference has not traded into the top 10 for its OLB extraordinare as you have campaigned for NE to do on here. Just sayin.

    The packers are still looking for a 2nd OLB but grabbed Clay Mathews late in the 1st round with pick #26. The Packers would be at least be closer on point to for what you are trying to say. While they too did not trade up into the costly top 10 to get their OLB extraordinare they did trade up. Trading three picks for two in return moving up from #41 to #26. They gambled. It paid off. It happens. The Packers team at the time however was one of the younger teams and you could argue that those later picks, of what players might be left, would have had a harder time finding starting roles on the Packers team so it was worth the gamble to them.

    If you were the Patriots however, doing a rebuild on the fly called for more picks rather than a single impact player at that particular time and year. Remember this was 2 years ago and not today. Also, if you were the Patriots, what exactly could you hang your hat on to say that Clay Mathews would work out well? Strictly on his combine measureables and senior bowl practices? You wanted to throw out 4 years of productionless film for a week of practice and an underwear workout? 25 other NFL teams also passed on Clay before NE. I never blamed the Patriots and still don't for passing on Clay. There is at least logic to it for the given circumstances. Now unfortunately Butler has not played so great. If Butler had been playing anywhere close to McCourtey the topic would be moot.

    To step out on a tangent for one moment using your Packers Clay Mathews example, this year is a year where I would like to see the Pats continue to do trades BUT to do more small trade ups to land the players they really want. Not so much in the top of the 1st round but in the bottom of the 1st and 2nd round. I don't think there will be a ton of places for payers being drafted after the 3rd round on this team. I also do not like the idea of trading back more than a handful of spots from 28 or 33 this year and that is only acceptable to me if they have 3 or 4 players equally rated at a given draft spot and don't mind picking who's left rather than who they want if they fall back a handful of spots. I am also dead against trading back or out of BOTH 28 & 33. Your Packers scenario is the perfect example why. Young team needing some strong pieces but the Pats have themselves in the perfect position. They do not need to trade up from a 41 to a 26 as the Packers were forced to do. They are already in perfect spots to land quality players this year while finishing up on the reloading process.

    OK back to your post

    2) Scheme. The Steelers and Packers are playing more of a 1-gap 34. They play an attacking style of defense. Fact - none of those three players mentioned would have the same stats here in NE playing in this defense. Fact - their successes haven't been soley because of having a good defense. They both have top QB's in the league as well. Fact - both defensive coordinators use scheme to design plays to attempt to get their linebackers some free runs at the QB. NE rarely if ever does that. NE 27th most conservative defense this past year.

    In conclusion I am not sure I can see how BB's approach needs to be changed. The draft history of the league and de/olb prospects says it doesn't really need to. The Patriots just drafted one reasonable high in Cunningham at pick #53. They also draft Shawn Crable at #78. Now Crable didn't work out but i would rather pick #78 didn't work out than some of the more recent busts at the position projection. Aaron Maybin #11. Vernon Gholston #6. Jarvis Moss #17 are just a few quick examples.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393


    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf NoneBufCastonzoOTmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Locker QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Rudolph TE Low
    37CleNone ClePaeaDLMbeaulieu07
    38NE (Ari 33) None NE Kenrick Ellis DL TrustBill
    39Ten None Ten Liuget DL Low
    40Dal None Dal Hudson C/OG pats7393
    41Was None Was B Harris CB Low
    42Hou None Hou JSmith CB digger0862
    43Det None Det B. Ijalana OT/OG pats7393
    44Min None Min A. Bailey DE/DT titletownfan
    45SF None
     SF B. Carter
     OLB Low
    46Den 50 ,136 NE M. LeShoure RB CaptFox
    47Oak None Oak Rahim More S NYPatsFan12
    48StL None StL L.Hankerson WR pats7393
    49Jac None JAC M Wilson ILB faucet
    50DEN (NE SD 28)     
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60NE     
    61NE (SD 28)     
    62Chi     
    63Pit     
    64GB     


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CaptnFoxboro. Show CaptnFoxboro's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    A bit surprised I havn't caught h ell yet for my jettisin' of a 5th to move UP .

     Here's my reasoning :
    1) Pats Rb situation is a work in progress.
    Time to restock the Over-the-Hill Gang of Rbs ( F Taylor done & Faulk / Morris close to it )
      Solidly built Leshoure seems to be the kind of ball carrier the Pats could use -  And his pass protection skills are top notch .
       Paired with youngies BJGE & Woodhead , Pats would be set for the future.
      It would also give Pats leverage with BJGE upcoming contract negotiations ( wouldnt be surprized if they were able to sign him for cheap Woodhead-ish money )
    2) As we all know , if BB targets a guy he likes but does the math and figures he can move back and still get him , he does it . Also - if the tea leaves tell him that his guy is in danger of disappearing - he'll pull the trigger and move up.
      LeShoure might just fall into this type of category

     Hypothetical SCENARIO
    AL : "Hello Bill , how are you doin' today ?
    BB : " Whats up Al ... what can I do for you ?"
    AL : " I just got off the phone with Vince Lombar...I mean Ted Thompson , he wants my pick to grab some guy named Michael LaShay ... I told him I'd do it , but I want his 2011 first rounder. He said he already used it on a Brooks Reef and that Elway will trade for a lot less , so I hung up on him " . Anyway ,you're a lot closer to my spot ...and you have lots of picks...Do you want to trade your #1 ? "

    BB : " Uh... let me get back to you "
    AL : " Also , did you know Elway was still playin' ?...Hello...Hello..."

    My point is that BB has got to be the most connected guy on draft day ( Theres amazing video of him workin the phones last year while landing McCourty )

    NOTE :
    #46 = 440 pts
    #50 + #136 = 438 pts

     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Why the trade up for LeShoure? The reasoning? Every back on the board is left except Ingram. We have a starter getting 4 1/2 yards a carry and gaining over 1000 yards.

    Given the full list of backs available and a current starter, albeit not "superstar", what is your analysis? Only curious.
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]A bit surprised I havn't caught h ell yet for my jettisin' of a 5th to move UP .  Here's my reasoning : 1) Pats Rb situation is a work in progress . Time to restock the Over-the-Hill Gang of Rbs ( F Taylor done & Faulk / Morris close to it )   Solidly built Leshoure seems to be the kind of ball carrier the Pats could use -  And his pass protection skills are top notch .    Paired with youngies BJGE & Woodhead , Pats would be set for the future.   It would also give Pats leverage with BJGE upcoming contract negotiations ( wouldnt be surprized if they were able to sign him for cheap Woodhead- ish money ) 2) As we all know , if BB targets a guy he likes but does the math and figures he can move back and still get him , he does it . Also - if the tea leaves tell him that his guy is in danger of disappearing - he'll pull the trigger and move up.   LeShoure might just fall into this type of category   Hypothetical SCENARIO AL : "Hello Bill , how are you doin' today ? BB : " Whats up Al ... what can I do for you ?" AL : " I just got off the phone with Vince Lombar...I mean Ted Thompson , he wants my pick to grab some guy named Michael LaShay ... I told him I'd do it , but I want his 2011 first rounder. He said he already used it on a Brooks Reef and that Elway will trade for a lot less , so I hung up on him " . Anyway ,you're a lot closer to my spot ...and you have lots of picks...Do you want to trade your #1 ? " BB : " Uh... let me get back to you " AL : " Also , did you know Elway was still playin' ?...Hello...Hello..." My point is that BB has got to be the most connected guy on draft day ( Theres amazing video of him workin the phones last year while landing McCourty ) NOTE : #46 = 440 pts #50 + #136 = 438 pts
    Posted by CaptnFoxboro[/QUOTE]


    I must have been writing my post at the same time as yours.

    However I was more curious why LeSHoure and not why a running back. Why RB I get.

    Why Leshoure when so many other options? What exactly have you read or seen or analyzed where it "had" to be him since you traded up for him?
     
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    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    I just got off a conference call with Johnny Patrick, Kendric Burney and Buster Skrine.  All three players were guests on my brother draft show and he let me listen in.  All three guys seem like high character, highly intelligent guys.  Patrick and Burney revealed that the Patriots had them in for private visits/work outs and that they seemed very interested in them. 

    Patrick is a pretty productive corner, 171 tackles, 9 INTs for Louisville, but in my opinion doesn't have the speed to play on the edge but people thought the same about Brandon Flowers.  Patrick reminds me of Flowers in terms of size, speed and instincts.  I have him as a late 3rd which is where we have a pick at 92. 

    Burney is just a player who is always around the ball and was extremely productive for the Tar Heals, 208 tackles, 11 INTs and he missed half of his senior year.  He's a short kid but well put together, 5-9, 186.  Burney will hit and is always around the ball as he showed at the Senior Bowl.  His 4.71 40 time makes me think he'll be a FS at the next level.  Burney is a Communications Major but he actually loves Math.  To stay in shape and improve his footwork he is learning boxing.  Mayock loves this kid and perhaps the Pats do too.  I have him as a 5th rounder but wonder if we might target him a little sooner.  There is no denying his tape.

    So, these are a couple of guys to keep an eye on later in the draft.  I wonder if perhaps both are being looked at as potential CB to S conversion types.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TrustBill. Show TrustBill's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    The reconstruction of the championship defense is almost complete:

    Law ==  McCourty
    Milloy == Chung
    Bruschi == Mayo
    Ted Johnson == Spikes
    Roman Phifer == Cunningham
    McGinest == ?
    Seymour == ?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from natesubs. Show natesubs's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    while i like leshoure i think with all of the remaining RB's available and if we traded up for anyone i would trade up for Martez wilson the ILB. his versatility is amazing being that we could switch him from ILB to OLBbased on the down and could be quite confusing to opposing offenses similar to vrable. I think leshoure could be available at 60
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from seattlepat70. Show seattlepat70's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK*** : ...2) Scheme. The Steelers and Packers are playing more of a 1-gap 34. They play an attacking style of defense. Fact - none of those three players mentioned would have the same stats here in NE playing in this defense. Fact - their successes haven't been soley because of having a good defense. They both have top QB's in the league as well. Fact - both defensive coordinators use scheme to design plays to attempt to get their linebackers some free runs at the QB. NE rarely if ever does that. NE 27th most conservative defense this past year. In conclusion I am not sure I can see how BB's approach needs to be changed. The draft history of the league and de/olb prospects says it doesn't really need to. The Patriots just drafted one reasonable high in Cunningham at pick #53. They also draft Shawn Crable at #78. Now Crable didn't work out but i would rather pick #78 didn't work out than some of the more recent busts at the position projection. Aaron Maybin #11. Vernon Gholston #6. Jarvis Moss #17 are just a few quick examples.
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    While I think going they can going forward approach some plays in the passive scheme that they have been using, I do believe that the something in the overall philosophy has to change.

    I think they they have become mech much more conservative on D now than they were back in 2001-2005. The sack numbers will not tell you much about that. The numbers that really bother me is the TFLs. From 2001-2007, they were totalling no fewer than 70. 2008-2010 they have been totalling no more than 38. That is nearly a 50% drop in production.

    Drops like that are never systemically driven. It likely has nothing to do with what the players on the field are capable of doing. It is likely driven by what the players are told to do.

    The key I believe is for this D to get on the opponent's backfield and create havoc there more often. They do not have to score sacks. The main point is to disrupt - keep the other team from finding openings where their schemes were designed to open it.

    1) A good start would be to rush more than three DLs on third and long. It does not matter whether you have good rushing OLBs if you tell them to drop back.

    2) Keep changing who that fourth or fifth rusher is. When you look at sack totals, NWE is not bad (except for a couple of years). The reason why there have been few individual sack leaders on this team is that the sacks are supposed to come from all over the place. I believe the beauty of the 34 is the flexibility it allows (unpredictability in the opposing QB's PoV). Make full use of it.

    On earlier downs: DLs need to move the pocket.
    - I do not believe that the purpose of your DLs stops at clogging the lanes by drawing double teams (that's enough if you believe whatever Wiki says). Clogging is ineffective if it's the same lanes that gets clogged over and over again, or if the clog is always static. You can't clog all lanes. If you're putting up the same static wall, the other team will figure out where the open lanes are.
    - Also, it is equally useless to clog the lanes with a static wall if it also means staying in one place, thereby putting up a nice pocket for the opposing QB at the same time. That pocket just has to be moved where the QB does not want it to be...even on a 3-man rush. That is the reason why the DE in this scheme has to be big and strong;that quickness will not be enough (I know you understand this, Low; this is a comment aimed at those who say it's okay to ahve a 280 lb DE).

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]Now here's an updated mock that makes me, selfishly, happy. http://draftace.com/blog/2011/04/01/mike-bands-latest-nfl-mock-draft-updated-april-1-2011/
    Posted by Low-FB-IQ[/QUOTE]

    See this is where I'd live to see them consider a move up for Amukamara.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    In Response to Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***:
    [QUOTE]hey mb, have you seen this? http://bleacherreport.com/articles/651507-2011-nfl-draft-will-boorks-reed-be-new-englands-clay-matthews
    Posted by seattlepat70[/QUOTE]

    sp,
    Thanks for the link.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from digger0862. Show digger0862's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393


    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf NoneBufCastonzoOTmbeaulieu07
    35Cin None Cin Locker QB pats7393
    36Den None Den Rudolph TE Low
    37CleNone ClePaeaDLMbeaulieu07
    38NE (Ari 33) None NE Kenrick Ellis DL TrustBill
    39Ten None Ten Liuget DL Low
    40Dal None Dal Hudson C/OG pats7393
    41Was None Was B Harris CB Low
    42Hou None Hou JSmith CB digger0862
    43Det None Det B. Ijalana OT/OG pats7393
    44Min None Min A. Bailey DE/DT titletownfan
    45SF None
     SF B. Carter
     OLB Low
    46Den 50 ,136 NE M. LeShoure RB CaptFox
    47Oak None Oak Rahim More S NYPatsFan12
    48StL None StL L.Hankerson WR pats7393
    49Jac None JAC M Wilson ILB faucet
    50DEN (NE SD 28) None Den Jabaal Sheard
     DE digger0862
    51TB     
    52NYG     
    53KC     
    54Ind     
    55Phi     
    56NO     
    57Sea     
    58Bal     
    59Atl     
    60NE     
    61NE (SD 28)     
    62Chi     
    63Pit     
    64GB     
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Asher77. Show Asher77's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    From Seattlepat70  - Also, it is equally useless to clog the lanes with a static wall if it also means staying in one place, thereby putting up a nice pocket for the opposing QB at the same time. That pocket just has to be moved where the QB does not want it to be...even on a 3-man rush. That is the reason why the DE in this scheme has to be big and strong;that quickness will not be enough (I know you understand this, Low; this is a comment aimed at those who say it's okay to ahve a 280 lb DE). 


    I will loudly argue that every player is different and while weight has a correlation to strength it is not so clear cut. There are many 280-290 pound DE way better at doing what you suggested than there 315 pound counterparts. What is more important than weight is tech, leverage, hand placement, attitude, football inteligence, ankle strength, and on and on. Now if you have a 330 pound lineman and he is fundementaly sound, mean, and smart then he has a huge edge on the 280 pound guy, no doubt, challange is to find me one?

    I have been spending alot of time the last few days on the OLB and DE tapes I can find ( Only other position I had previously reveiwed was RB )

    These guys like Jordan and Watt have very diff skill sets ( I think Jordan is a 4-3 shoot the gap guy all the way and we won't touch him ) Watt on the other hand is not my perfect player but can hold his own. ( and looking at Watt's frame I think he could get his weight up there if it was to his benefit, a strength vs speed debate )

    The big ones I have seen so far are Wilkerson and Taylor, they are both soft. Wilkerson imao is nothing, he will not be an NFL starter, he needs alot of coaching and patience and I do not see the attitude. If we lost faith in Brace so fast then forget this guy.
    Taylor is better than Wilkerson and may develop into an NFL player but he is not Ted Washington, Not Big Vince, and not yet Ron Brace, he may take three years to get the tech down and the strength and conditioning in place.

    Have not looked at 2nd round potential yet.



     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mbeaulieu07. Show mbeaulieu07's posts

    Re: 2011 Patriots Draft Options ***UPDATED 2/19 w/ PRE-COMBINE MOCK***

    Assnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By

     

    1CarNoneCarBlaine GabbertQBNYPatsFan12
    2DenNoneDenMarcell DareusDTpats7393
    3BufNoneBuf Cam Newton QB PatsEng 
    4CinNoneCinJulio JonesWRmbeaulieu07
    5AriNoneAriVon MillerDE/OLBLow
    6CleNoneCleA J GreenWRTrustBill
    7SFNoneSFPrince AmukamaraCBSeattlePat70
    8Ten None Ten Patrick Peterson CB pats7393
    9Dal None Dal Tyron Smith LB Rocky
    10Was NoneWasJJ WattDEPatsLifer
    11Hou None Hou Cameron Jordan DE Low
    12Min None Min Ryan Mallet QB TrustBill
    13Det 18, 82 SD Robert Quinn OLB pats7393
    14StL NoneSTLAldon SmithOLBPatsLifer
    15Mia none MIAChristian Ponder QB Natesubs
    16Jac None Jac Nick Fairly DT CaptFox
    17NENoneNEDa'Quan BowersDEAsher77
    18SD 13 Det ryan kerrigan de/olb Seatlepat70
    19NYG none nyg mike pouncey c/g brdbreu
    20TB None TB Gabe Carimi OT NYPatsFan12
    21KC NoneKCPhil TaylorDTmbeaulieu07
    22Ind NoneINDNate SolderOTPatsLifer
    23Phi None PhiDanny Watkins OG pats7393
    24NO none NO Mark Ingram RB natesubs
    25Sea    NoneSEAAdrian ClaybornDEmbeaulieu07
    26Bal NoneBalD. SherrodOTPatsLifer
    27Atl none ATL A Ayers OLB natesubs
    28NE 50,61 SD J houston OLB natesubs
    29Chi none Chi Torrey Smith WR pats7393
    30NYJ NoneNYJM. WilkersonDLmbeaulieu07
    31Pit NonePitC. HeywardDLmbeaulieu07
    32GB NoneGB B. Reed OLB pats7393
      
    2nd Round
    Assnd PickAssnd TeamTraded PicksTeam SelectingPlayerPositionPosted By
    33NE 38, 69, 136Ari  KaepernickQBPatsLifer
    34Buf